Trump Can't Win


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Does anyone really believe that Trump is going to win this election?  I'm having trouble buying that.  The bottom line is that Hillary is going to win.  

But what I'm left with now is the following options.

1) Vote for Hillary and have Hillary win.
2) Vote for Trump and have Hillary win.
3) Don't vote at all and have Hillary win.
4) Vote for another candidate and have Hillary win.

So, when people tell me that a vote for anyone other than Trump is actually a vote for Hillary seems like foolishness to me.  By that same logic, it appears that even a vote for Trump is a vote for Hillary.  I partially apologize to those here who have said that  -- especially one friend of mine in particular (a-hem).

All I can hope to do is to vote my conscience regardless of anything else because the electoral result will be the same -- Hillary wins.  But I can at least have some peace in knowing that I voted my conscience.

Edited by Guest
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I picked option 5) Go to Balancedrebellion.com, and find someone on the left who rejects Hillary as much as I reject Trump, and both of us agree to vote third party.  One vote less for the left, one vote less for the right.  Thus cancelling out the "have the other side win" stuff that has always plagued third parties.

If Gary Johnson loses (which he probably will), I still get to claim two things:
- I voted my conscience.
- I did it in a way that did not make it one vote easier for Hillary to win. 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator

I swing between these two options: 

My conscience will bother me more if I stay home/vote third party thus allowing Hillary to win. Speaking for me only, I accept in politics that you can't always get what you want and in the adult world, sometimes you are stuck with two bad choices. Grown ups accept this and vote for the lesser evil. That's the logic side of me. 

Emotionally I'm saying I can't be associated with the disgusting pig that Trump is or his cult like followers. I made fun of the Obama cult in 2008 and it's the same thing in 2016 with Trump. By voting for him I am in some way acknowledging that I either support or endorse him-and that repulses me. In the end I want to pat myself on the back and and talk about how wonderful a person I am because I didn't vote for this perv. 

 

Edited by MormonGator
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No really - if Balancedrebellion.com doesn't float your boat, I can poll some lefties I know personally on Facebook, and pair you up with one of them.  One vote less for Trump, one vote less for Hil.

No "allowing Hillary to win" necessary.  For the first time in my life, a third party has figured out how to deal with the 3rd grade math of the thing.

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The odds the last three weeks have been about 15:85 that Trump will win.  Call it a long shot, but Trump can still win.  I just saw a headline suggesting that Clinton's voters are much less motivated that Trump supporters.  Then there is the "shy Trump voter" theory--that many Trump supporters are intimidated by the fierce accusations of racism and bigotry being lobbed his way.  They support him, but do not want to admit it in PC public environments. 

I still say that if HRC's pro-abortion, anti-religious liberties stances (with her litmus-tested judges filling SCOTUS and federal positions) upsets you, the flawed vessel known as Trump is the only alternative that's plausible.  If these do not strike you as serious, consider that both Mass & Iowa are notifying churches that they must provide transgendered bathrooms on their facilities, since they are "public accommodations."  I cannot, in good conscience, abstain, or cast an angry independent, or 3rd Party vote, knowing that only Trump has that slim 15-20% chance of winning.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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I've said this repeatedly, but as it seems topical here I'll bring it up:  My motivation in voting isn't to change the identity of the person who takes the oath on Inauguration Day.  It's an opening salvo in the civil war that the Republican Party will be fighting amongst itself over the next four years. 

If Trump wins, we will see more Republican candidates in his mold.  If he loses, then--with a little Divine intervention--we won't.  As George Will puts it

Quote

[ B]y persevering through Nov. 8 [Trump] can simplify the GOP's quadrennial exercise of writing its post-campaign autopsy, which this year can be published Nov. 9 in one sentence: "Perhaps it is imprudent to nominate a venomous charlatan."

 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest MormonGator
18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

The odds the last three weeks have been about 15:85 that Trump will win.  Call it a long shot, but Trump can still win

Pc, you know how much I respect you but I think the odds are actually much worse. Trump is barely leading in Texas. Texas! The odds are 99 to 1 or maybe even 100 to nothing. 

Wikileaks has shown that Hillary wanted to run against Trump the entire time. Turns out the Trumperdoodles gave her exactly what she wanted. 

Edited by MormonGator
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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

4) Vote for another candidate and have Hillary win.

So, when people tell me that a vote for anyone other than Trump is actually a vote for Hillary seems like foolishness to me.  

As a family we are going this route: Evan McMullin

"How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah And The Presidency
It’s unlikely, but far from impossible.

His path to the presidency basically looks like this:
1. Win Utah
2. Deadlock the Electoral College
3. Win in the House"

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Guest Godless
28 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Pc, you know how much I respect you but I think the odds are actually much worse. Trump is barely leading in Texas. Texas! The odds are 99 to 1 or maybe even 100 to nothing. 

Wikileaks has shown that Hillary wanted to run against Trump the entire time. Turns out the Trumperdoodles gave her exactly what she wanted. 

I saw a recent poll that had McMullin one point ahead of Hillary and one point behind Trump in Utah.

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15 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

As a family we are going this route: Evan McMullin

"How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah And The Presidency
It’s unlikely, but far from impossible.

His path to the presidency basically looks like this:
1. Win Utah
2. Deadlock the Electoral College
3. Win in the House"

It is highly unlikely, but it's worth a try. Where I think his plan will fail is in step 2. Based on electoral predictions, this election will be a landslide. I would be surprised if Trump even got to 200 electoral votes. In any case, a McMullin presidency would be awesome and he's got my support.

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28 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

As a family we are going this route: Evan McMullin

"How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah And The Presidency
It’s unlikely, but far from impossible.

His path to the presidency basically looks like this:
1. Win Utah
2. Deadlock the Electoral College
3. Win in the House"

Fun as it is to speculate (and even invoke the dreaded White Horse), I agree that the scenario is highly unlikely.  But even if it does play out, McMullin strikes me as someone who's more interested in ensuring that Trump and Hillary not be president; than someone who wants to be the president himself.  I doubt the House would swallow McMullin; and I daresay if the election were throne to the House McMullin would step aside relatively quickly; and the result would be the election of some Republican--probably someone who ran in the primary--who has a broader geographical base of support.  My money would be on Kasich, Jeb Bush, or Rubio; though Romney might be a dark horse.  Ryan's well-positioned too, but I think he honestly doesn't want the job.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest MormonGator
6 minutes ago, Godless said:

I saw a recent poll that had McMullin one point ahead of Hillary and one point behind Trump in Utah.

I saw the same poll. The ship hit the iceberg and when the GOP tried to load the lifeboats, the Trumperdoodles instead kept everyone in their cabins and announced "Pay no attention to the water around your ankles. Or the water around your knees. Or the water around your hips. Or the water around your chest. Or the water around your neck." 

I am so good at metaphors and images, aren't I?  

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1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

As a family we are going this route: Evan McMullin

"How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah And The Presidency
It’s unlikely, but far from impossible.

His path to the presidency basically looks like this:
1. Win Utah
2. Deadlock the Electoral College
3. Win in the House"

Yup, I've heard.

I still think the fix is in for Hillary.  I'd bet 100 to 1 that even if the first two steps occur, the third step will never happen.  Hillary will still win.

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RealClearPolitics says the odds-makers give Trump a 15/85 chance.  People are betting on that ratio.  It's time to grow up and vote within the realm of possibility.  McMullin is farther behind Trump than Trump is behind Clinton, nationwide.  Trump is down 86 electoral votes, and many of the states are near the margin of error in their polls.  It could be a landslide or a squeaker.  However, even if no one reaches the 270, the House of Representatives will NOT make McMullin president--even if he does win Utah.  So, make the adult decision--choose one of the two major candidates.

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Meh - principled decision here - I found a way to say 'enough', without hurting my side of the fence.  I have taken action to reduce the number of votes for both major candidates by one each, and give Gary Johnson two votes.  Yeah, he probably won't win, but I'm not helping the other side win with my principled refusal to vote Trump.

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On 10/18/2016 at 2:18 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

the dreaded White Horse),

a dark horse.

White Horse, Black Horse.
Pale Horse, Dark Horse.

You could vote for them in your state.
You could vote for them without hate.

You can't see them here or there.
Regulations are everywhere.

This one has a billion dollars.
That one says a prayer to Allah.
Both will keep you behind those bollards.

This one's old.
That one's cold.
Some are very, very bold.

There are always some
Who choose to run.
While none of us has any fun.

One is depraved.
One won't behave.
That one is just like the other.
Don't ask me why.  Go ask your mother.

Who really wants them? I can't say.
There has to be a better way.

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

RealClearPolitics says the odds-makers give Trump a 15/85 chance.  People are betting on that ratio.  It's time to grow up and vote within the realm of possibility.  McMullin is farther behind Trump than Trump is behind Clinton, nationwide.  Trump is down 86 electoral votes, and many of the states are near the margin of error in their polls.  It could be a landslide or a squeaker.  However, even if no one reaches the 270, the House of Representatives will NOT make McMullin president--even if he does win Utah.  So, make the adult decision--choose one of the two major candidates.

Here's why some Christians I've talked to won't pick between the two major candidates.

I have talked to some people that say that they can't vote for Trump because of personal conviction. They feel like, as Christians, they can't support someone who is in favor of killing babies in the womb, talks about (and debatebly does) grope women, etc. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with people that say they won't vote for Trump because of this. That's between them and God.

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On 2016-10-18 at 5:09 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Meh - principled decision here - I found a way to say 'enough', without hurting my side of the fence.  I have taken action to reduce the number of votes for both major candidates by one each, and give Gary Johnson two votes.  Yeah, he probably won't win, but I'm not helping the other side win with my principled refusal to vote Trump.

Edited by Sunday21
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1 hour ago, Larry Cotrell said:

They feel like, as Christians, they can't support someone who is in favor of killing babies in the womb . . .

I get the rest, but not this.  Trump is pro-life, and has published a list of judges he would nominate to SCOTUS--all pro-life, to my understanding. 

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4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

However, even if no one reaches the 270, the House of Representatives will NOT make McMullin president--even if he does win Utah.  So, make the adult decision--choose one of the two major candidates.

So, I re-read my twelfth amendment; and it looks like the House would have to vote between the top three electoral vote-getters.  Even if Johnson gets his home state of New Mexico and McMullin gets Utah--Utah has more electoral votes than New Mexico, so Johnson's out and the House has to pick between Clinton, Trump and McMullin.  Each state delegation votes as one.  The Republicans currently have a majority in the house delegations of 35 states; the Dems, 15. 

If the election goes to the House, Hillary has no path for victory even if the Republican delegation split nearly 50/50 between Trump and McMullin--she would have a lock on 15 votes, to at least 18 for Trump or McMullin.  Realizing this, the Dems' state delegations may decide to at least keep Trump out of the White House by backing McMullin.  Fifteen Dem delegations, plus an anti-Trump revolt by substantial minority of eleven Republican delegations, could put McMullin over the top in the House.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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