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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.


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  1. 17 likes
    I think forcing an active, righteous LDS spouse into a quasi-homosexual relationship IS abuse, frankly. I think if my wife decided to actually physically become a man I would be unable to stomach it and would divorce. I am sorry but this is one step too far for me to handle.
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    So my wife and I are newly weds, both off our missions for only a year and pretty poor (though I feel we are doing better than most college students). A week or so ago I took our little fiat into the shop to get the oil changed and get new tires. They then pointed out 3 different parts of the car that needed fixing. All pretty obvious (like my back left wheel wiggling and slowly coming apart). The price to fix these essential parts were going to range from $600-$1000. My wife and I were pretty stressed out. We would not be going into debt, but the price would drain our savings as well as a bit of our money we are going to use on our honeymoon in August. But because of promises made in my patriarchal blessing, I decided to be patient, gained hope and chose not to be devastated. But then the miracle happened! The very next day my wife took our other car (The shop told us not to drive long distance and the wiggly tire was enough to convince me they were right) to see some friends and family. On her way home she was rear ended On the freeway! She was totally fine, only minor cosmetic damage on the car, and now the insurance claim is enough to pay for her car repairs! God watches over all of us guys!
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    SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Sunday issued a statement decrying racism and calling for peace, greater kindness and compassion following Saturday's rally in Virginia that spiraled into deadly violence. "It is with great sadness and deep concern that we view the violence, conflict and tragedy of recent days in Charlottesville, Virginia. People of any faith, or of no faith at all, should be troubled by the increase of intolerance in both words and actions that we see everywhere. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45407971&nid=1016
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    New calling - Fast Sunday drinking fountain monitor.
  6. 10 likes
    Well I went into our YSA combined 3rd hour meeting expecting the bishop to talk about something close to the law of chastity, and he ended up talking about pornography (per the stake president's counsel). We watched about a 16 min. Ted talk, I'll put the link below if you're interested, called the "the great porn experiment". It was a more physiological explanation of pornography and the long term effects of porn addiction. From there our bishop wanted to keep the discussion as an open forum, for those who wanted to ask questions or make comments (he didn't expect many---but oh did my ward prove him wrong, and not in a good way). There was about 10 minutes of some good comments and questions about how to bring this up in dating, since pornography use has become so common now. Then as our bishop was about to start moving towards talking about the repentance process in relation to pornography use, we had one last person comment, and that's where everything went downhill. He (the individual who wanted to comment) wanted to make it clear that the way we were discussing pornography was at the addiction level, and that for the majority of people at the YSA age, it isn't that extreme. It is more of a "causal use" (his words, not mine) type of thing that most lds members are doing and we need to realize the difference between the two. He said, of course both require repentance and they're still a sin, but they're different. Our bishop responded with saying, "okay, I guess I understand what you're saying....well no actually, I don't. I think that's rationalizing the problem and I don't quite understand what you mean by "casually using" pornography?" Well oh boy did that set off a storm. Many people started to chime in now to try to explain that there are "varying levels of pornography use" and all must be treated differently. This probably went on for a good 10 minutes as well, but you could just feel the spirit leave the room. He finally reined it back in, and said sternly "brothers and sisters, I meet with you on Sundays and Tuesdays, and see around 10-15 of you each week. And guess what we are discussing? Pornography. So it's hard for me to see this as a casual use problem when it is so prevalent and effecting your lives." He ended with giving the location for the nearest 12-steps program and a website where you can find lds counselors and psychologists. I was just in shock. I guess I am a very black and white person, but the amount of people that were trying to defend this "casual use" comment was just astonishing. I could hear it in the voices of those who defended this concept, that they just thought our bishop was too old to understand our generation and what pornography is like today. I don't care what kind of "use" you want to label it as. If you're viewing pornography, you're dealing with a very serious sin. I don't care if you only "dabble" in it a few times a month, or if you're a straight addict. There is no difference in the fact that it is a sin, and that you are ruining your ability to form relationships in a healthy way. Now if you're a psychologist or a psychiatrist who is talking to a patient about their pornography use, then yes, it is crucial to understand the extent of their use and if it is a full fledge addiction. But as a YSA ward discussing pornography in relation to the gospel and the repentance process, the conversation of "casual use" vs. addiction was so off base. But maybe that was just me. I don't know. I'm interested to know what you all think about it. TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
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    I suggest we tally our time frittered away on this forum.
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    The casual vs. Addict distinction is more about treatment options than seriousness of sin. All pornography use is bad and will keep you from being temple worthy. Bishop involvement is required for all pornography use. After the sin is confessed to the bishop, general authorities have told bishops there is a difference in casual use versus addiction. This preserves the bishop's ability to take action depending on the circumstances. For example, a bishop may tell someone who had a one-off to be more careful next time, while someone who uses regularly may be counseled to go to a 12-step program. This is similar to how a bishop may counsel someone having alcohol problems of varying degrees. The whole point of the repentance process with pornography use is to get people off of the stuff so they can move forward. The casual versus addict distinction is not about the seriousness of the sin, but approaches the bishop may use to get people off of the pornography so they can progress and telling bishops they are free to use different approaches for different situations according to how they are inspired.
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    I'm at the point now where I wish they had church every day. I want to learn more.
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    I'm all for not judging individuals. But let's not pretend God is copacetic about people who deliberately expose themselves to graphic and gratuitous violence/sex/other immorality; and let's not pretend He doesn't notice when people are using sex appeal to draw attention to themselves. Let's not pretend temple attendance is irrelevant. And let's not pretend that a generalized effort to take care of our bodies, above and beyond avoiding certain verboten substances, isn't part of the intent of the Word of Wisdom.
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    Dude, you ain't seen nothing yet. You're thin aren't you? Your thoughts on this are very narrow and prideful. If you really want to understand this issue, you would need to give it a lot more careful thought and study. You might start with actually talking to people who are overweight about their reasons, if they are even consciouly aware of them. My niece had a brain tumor at 18. She had been a cheerleader. One of the medications made her gain weight rapidly. If you didn't know her story you might assume she was sinning by your definition. There are other meds and health issues that can make people gain weight. We have an obesity epidemic in America (all over the world really especially as other countries adapt our diet.) Children are getting Type 2 Diabetes....formerly named Adult On-Set Diabetes. Are the children sinning or the parents? Or perhaps we have all been given a lot of misinformation about diet. And as @my two cents said, a lot of food is intentionally created to be addictive. Many survivors of rape and sexual abuse gain weight as a form of protection (consciously or unconsciously). One woman, sexually abused by her father, told me, "When I gained weight, the sbuse stopped." Did she sin? Obesity is a common problem for survivors. Are you including that in your proclamation of sin? You talk about people "letting themselves go"...except for very rare exceptions, no one chooses to be obese. If you look around you will see the weight loss industry is making millions off of people trying to lose weight. MILLIONS because their programs don't work long term. People lose weight and then they gain it back and then some. All over the world we are facing an obesity epidemic. Is everyone choosing this in your opinion? It would be extremely naive to believe that. And yes, before you call me out like you did to my friend, @MormonGator, yes this is something I struggle with. I am a survivor of sexual abuse and assault. Yes, the weight makes me feel SAFER. That is something I have spent a lot of time in therapy trying to overcome. But you would not know that just looking at me. You would see me in church and think I'm just another fat person who let themselves go. And there is more... A lot of the information we have out there about diet and nutrition is just plain wrong. They say you have to watch how many calories you eat, and exercise....but some researchers are starting to argue this point. Check out The Calorie Myth by Jonathon Bailor The intro on amazon says, "In this revolutionary weight-loss program informed by more than 1,200 scientific studies, fitness and diet expert Jonathan Bailor offers concrete evidence that the calorie-counting model of weight loss doesn't work. In fact, cutting-edge science supports a radically different approach to weight loss and health, proving that by focusing on food and exercise quality - rather than calorie quantity - you can burn fat and boost health more easily and enjoyably that you ever thought possible." We are told we must eat meat and dairy, and don't eat too many nuts, dates, avocados, bananas (because of high sugar and fat.) But you know what, I have lost 60 lbs in 8 months by giving up sugar, meat and dairy. I don't count calories. I don't exercise (yet, but I will start.) I eat as many dates, avocados, bananas, and nuts as I want (no salt), I eat beans and rice abundantly (defying the low carb theories.) I follow a Whole Food Plant Based diet. And before you tell me that i need meat and dairy....my health is vastly improved and I don't mean just the things that are directly related to weight...like high blood pressure. My kidney function is the best it has been in 10 years...because I gave up meat. (Meat is hard on your kidneys.) * Sugar, salt and fat (particularly cheese) are all highly addictive. Check out the book, Salt, Sugar, Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Scott Brick. From the amazon description, "From a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter at The New York Times comes the explosive story of the rise of the processed food industry and its link to the emerging obesity epidemic. Michael Moss reveals how companies use salt, sugar, and fat to addict us and, more important, how we can fight back." Yes, the food companies have INTENTIONALLY addicted us. If people are addicted and they don't even know it...that includes you...is that a sin? I'm sure you think of being obese as a lack of self-control (based on your posts in this thread...yes, I read the whole thing). Tell me then...could you do what I did? In order to cut out sugar, I had to cut out basically all processed food. I eat canned beans (no salt) and frozen veggies and fruit, but that's it for packaged foods. So even though I still have some weight to lose, and you apparently are thin...isn't it possible that you are sinning against your body/temple by the unhealthy things you put in your mouth more than I am? I am not judging you--or anyone else--because I have been trying to eat this way for 13 years...but I had to deal with some emotional stuff first (remember sexual abuse survivor). So I don't judge others based on their diet, or their weight because that would make me a hypocrite. My point here is not to tell anyone else how to eat because that is not my place. Though I'd be happy to share what is working for me with anyone who is interested...I am VERY satisfied with my diet. My taste buds are changing and I feel fantastic. My point is that you should be very careful about judging others as sinning when you don't know what they are dealing with, where they are coming from...or any number of other factors. A judgmental attitude is one of the many manifestations of pride. And yes, I'm fully aware that I am prideful too. (Do a quick search on the forum, I have talked about my struggle with pride many times.) Finally...as a survivor, you can imagine that I find pornography extremely repugnant...however...I don't judge the men caught in this trap of Satan's harshly because I see them as victims of a snare. Perhaps you could consider extending that same compassion and understanding to those who are overweight.
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    I grew up in the church and have been a member my whole life. Active and inactive. Mostly active. That is until 2 years ago when I stopped going to church altogether. I'll rewind from there and give you the full story. I grew up in Texas in a Mormon household with 3 siblings, and we had a great upbringing. My Mom was definitely more into the church than my Dad. My Dad mainly converted to make my Mom happy before they got married. Nonetheless, he took us to church regularly and served in various callings in the church. He saw the church as a good structure for us kids and supported our involvement even though he would never say the LDS church is the one and only true church or anything to that nature. I believed in the church growing up even though I never considered myself a very spiritual person. And I didn’t really pay much attention to the various lessons and talks all those years. I found church to be very boring as a kid/teenager. They were the longest three hours of the week. But I believed nonetheless because of the occasional positive feelings I would receive. I participated in the youth programs, went to seminary, went home teaching with my Dad for a period of time, prayed to God on my own initiative and read the scriptures occasionally. Although I didn’t prepare myself sufficiently growing up to receive a solid confirmation of the truthfulness of the gospel, I always felt a strong connection to my Savior and His atonement for us, and I always strived to maintain that positive relationship. I always had it in my mind growing up that I would serve a mission and not just because I knew it would make my Mom happy. I wanted to. Even though I wasn’t the most dedicated member, I felt it was the right thing to do. And I thought of how much more I would learn about the gospel and develop my own testimony. So I put in my papers and was called to serve in a stateside Spanish-speaking mission. 2006 I was excited as a fresh missionary. I felt grateful to be serving. I also enjoyed learning a new language. And then, early on in my mission, maybe 2-3 months, I started wondering how converted I was to the gospel. What spiritual confirmations did I have leading up to that point? I did have positive feelings of the church before, but I realized I had never taken it upon myself to follow the very advice we teach as missionaries: If you have questions, ask God, and the Holy Spirit will bear witness to you of truth through positive feelings. So I prayed asking if Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I prayed for quite some time. I would ask the Lord to please let me know if Joseph was a true prophet, then pause and repeat. I did this over and over again until I said “Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.” I stopped and thought to myself, did I just make a statement rather than a question? That seemed to me to be an answer in itself. I thought I had a good feeling from the prayer, but nothing amazing. I questioned if it was an answer or if I had just said it myself without receiving revelation since I had been praying for so long asking the same question. But it was good enough to keep me going as a missionary for a period of time. At the 5-6 month mark, I really began questioning what I was doing serving a mission. I had to be honest with myself at that point that I really didn’t know if the church was true. The only time in my life I had undoubtedly experienced the Holy Spirit was when I prayed to God for forgiveness of my sins and felt the merciful forgiveness made possible through Jesus Christ the Redeemer. After evaluating what I knew to be true, and what I didn’t, I made the decision to meet with my mission president. At the 9-10 month mark, I told the mission president I was ready to go home. How could I continue preaching the gospel when I hadn’t fully accepted it myself? I was miserable with the feeling of being a hypocrite. I didn’t want to be at conflict with myself anymore. I told the mission president all of this, and how I initially thought I would find my testimony after I came out to serve a mission, albeit I know that’s not the way you’re supposed to do it. I told him of my attempts to find the truth, and that I had decided I needed to call it quits. After almost a year of no improvement in terms of receiving a confirmation of the church, I thought that was a fair enough time to give it a shot. He asked if I would give it another 3 months to see if anything changed, and I agreed. Nothing did change and a little after I hit my 1-year mark I returned home to Texas. 2007 Once I got home I started wondering which church was the true church of God. I attended services of other faiths, studied other religions, and even took a world’s religion class in college. I decided I was a non-denominational Christian at that point, and continued looking for answers over the next 2 years. 2009 Funny enough, it was only after I had served my 1-year mission and after the vain attempts I had made at finding the truth that I discovered the Mormon Church was the answer all along! What wasn’t funny was how it happened. At age 23, both my parents died in a tragic way that left me and my siblings in complete shock. My youngest sibling was 14 at the time. Shortly after receiving the news, I received several blessings of comfort from Church leaders. On four separate occasions over the course of four days I met with different Church leaders and received the same experience each time. The Church leader would lay his hands upon my head and spoke through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Almost instantly I felt the power of Holy Ghost fall upon me as if I was on fire. I felt the warmth of the love of God within me. It was as if I was completely enveloped by this warm, radiating presence. It never left me, not once, for four days straight. I was able to physically and spiritually feel the warm radiance of the Spirit of God. So it was through the power of the Priesthood that my spiritual understanding was opened up and I was converted as a believer of the gospel. As for why I hadn’t received a testimony of the church previous to this experience, the truth is, I could have received an answer, but I had not prepared sufficiently, and my heart wasn’t broken enough for the Lord to reach me. But that experience alone established deep convictions within me of the church. And I have had many spiritual experiences since then reaffirming the same knowledge. I went back to church on a regular basis, attended the temple fairly regularly, testified of the power of the Priesthood often, did my home teaching, held various callings including serving as 2nd counselor in the Elder’s Quorum presidency, and really enjoyed all of it. I even dated a non-member who ended up becoming a convert, and we are currently happily married with a 9-month old baby. 2015 So to throw a wrench in the story, the reason why I stopped going to church two years ago is because I haven’t been able to break my addiction to pornography (sorry to kill the upbeat tempo). Not that quitting is hard. It’s like Mark Twain said about smoking, “Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I've done it thousands of times.” I think I might have even read a version of that quote on this site somewhere the other day. I was first exposed to pornography when I was 11 years old. 20 years later and I still haven’t been able to get away from it. I was always open and honest with church leaders about the issue, followed through with all their advice (that is, of course, everything but the forsaking the sin part), but I could never find the resolve to stay away for very long. Besides when I had served my 1-year mission, the longest time I was able to stay away from it was for a 4-month stretch. There is nothing more I would like to accomplish in this world than to break this habit once and for all. I just don’t know how to do it. I’ve met with numerous bishops, went to a church psychologist on my own initiative, and made I don’t know how many promises to myself and the Lord to put it all behind me. Some people say pride is the greatest tool of the Devil. I would say that is definitely not true in my case. Despair has been far more effective. It was two years ago that I made some conclusions that really got me down. I’m 29 years old at the time realizing I haven’t been able to kick a habit that’s been affecting me since adolescence, and I think, if I haven’t been able to break this habit by now, I’m never going to change. I came to the despairing conclusion I don’t have enough resolve. On top of that, the Church tells us how monumentally important it is to obey the Law of Chasity. Think of how uniquely often the Law of Chasity is commanded of us to obey. I believe the Lord puts so much emphasis on the Law of Chasity because the sacredness of the power of procreation goes well beyond this life. Do you truly think God would entrust someone with the powers of divine and eternal procreation who does not does not end up mastering the Law of Chasity in this life? I understand the Lord is merciful and grace makes up the difference for what we fall short of, but I also understand the Law of Chasity is held to a much stricter and less lenient standard than most commandments. That said, I firmly believe the Law of Chasity is the main defining test the Lord will use in sifting the wheat from the tares, i.e, those who will receive Celestial glory versus those who don’t. I have conceded that it is very unlikely, to the point of hopeless despair, that I will ever make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Two years ago was the first time in my life I had ever conceded to anything less than the aspirations of wanting to return to live in the presence of God. The final conclusion I made was, if I can’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom based on my inability to quit looking at porn, why should I even go to church? What’s the point? If I’ve already pegged myself as ending up in the Terrestrial Kingdom (see post on Few Will Find Celestial Glory), everyone who ends up there isn’t required to do all tasks expected of a Mormon, so why should I? And there it is. Despair ultimately destroyed my optimism of obtaining Eternal Life, and has left me with my sad, pathetic acceptance of mediocrity. 2017 So here I am, two years later, and although I still know the Church and the gospel to be true, I’m at a loss feeling I’m just not good enough to make the cut. I know the gospel works, but I’ve proven to myself I’m not determined enough to allow the gospel to work for me. I’m left with admitting I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom because I lack character and resolve. I know it’s not impossible to obey the Law of Chasity. I personally know maybe 10 to 15 men who strictly follow the Law of Chasity. I look up to and respect these men in the highest regard. One was a former stake president of mine. Counseling me one time, he said when he was called to his position as stake president, the general authority looked at him right in the eyes and said, “brother, do you have any involvement in any shape or form with the viewing of pornography?”, to which he confidently responded, “No, I am clean.” What I would give to be able to say that. I’ve been so down about this that I’ve had zero interaction with the church the past two years. But now, for the first time in a long time, I’ve started to feel bits of hope come back to me just from joining this website a week or so ago. I’ve received some really great feedback to questions I’ve had a very long time, questions I’ve never fully vetted with anyone before. I think the members on here who are truly trying to help those in need are really great missionaries and friends to this community, and just great people in general. So thanks to the creators of this website and its contributors. I’m someone who knows that "the Church is true” (I’m using this phrase sincerely and also in honor of @Vort and @Carborendum). This is based on me receiving the witness I did of the power of the Priesthood, and also other experiences I had within the Church from 2009 – 2015. I have a long ways to go if I can ever dig myself out of the hole I’m in, and I also have a few kinks in my testimony, but it was nice the other day to feel a bit of hope again. I wanted to write all this to clear the air on who I really am and where I come from for the benefit of people like @Grunt. I know I have a lot of questions that are phrased differently than what a typical member might ask, but they’re not intended to come across as negative, and they especially aren’t meant to come across as attacking the church. The only thing I’ve attacked is a small piece of the culture that has grown around the church. For the most part (like 95 percent) the church has a great culture. And also understand that I know a lot of my posts might not have answers others can provide. I’m mostly seeking perspective in a lot of cases. And I don’t need to find answers to every single question in order for me to have a testimony of the church. I already do have a testimony of the church regardless. Your answers and perspective only help strengthen my testimony of the church (at least from most of you, okay maybe half haha).
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    Our divorce is final. His girlfriend's divorce is still ongoing, however, so the repercussions are continuing. They hide their relationship for now, but when they're both legally free to move forward, I'm pretty sure I know who my kids' stepmom will be. 😔 My financial situation and emotional well-being have improved by leaps and bounds now that I am not being manipulated or taken advantage of by him anymore. I have primary custody, but with such young kids, we will be interacting for years to come. He makes co-parenting difficult and spreads lies about me. Life as a working, single mom of four is incredibly stressful and lonely. But I receive so many blessings for remaining faithful! I see God's hand in my daily life, buoying me up, teaching me, refining my testimony, helping me overcome my weaknesses. Though I have been utterly betrayed by the one who covenanted to love and support me, my heartache is lessened by hope in God's blessings. I have a long road ahead of me with heavy burdens to bear, but I know in Whom I have trusted.
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    Interesting topic. In the men's portion last Sunday the speaker asked me to explain to everyone what I do to magnify my Home Teaching. I stood up and said: "Well, first I'd ask someone what Home Teaching is, then I'd do it really loud?.?.?" or something to that effect. One of the other members saved me.
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    I vote Reykjavik, Iceland. There are only 277 members in the whole country, so even if he messes it all up in at there, damage control should be minimal. His controversial first action as bishop. . . repainting the building . . . orange!
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    The bolded portion of NeuroTypical's comment is where the line would be drawn for me. If the spouse is actively still living the gospel, fighting the good (hard) fight, then I don't see any reason why divorce would be on the table. We all struggle with something, as long as we are moving forward we should allow the atonement to work for our spouse. If the spouse comes out and is not willing to continue forward, then divorce would be on the table.
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    Yeah; the difference strikes me as pretty pedantic. If you think you aren't addicted--fine, then; stop using. Just stop it! Talk to your bishop and move on; case closed. But if you find yourself coming back to it, in contravention of the better angels of your nature--guess what? You're probably addicted; and even if you aren't *addicted* in the clinical sense of the word--working the Church's 12-step addiction recovery program (which is really just a university-level course on repentance) isn't going to do you any harm. The OP's bishop was nicer than I would have been to these folks. I probably would have been tempted to reply "And when was *your* most recent porn use, brother?"
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    Sealed a family of 9! Did 7 at once! Very crowded! My ancestors. Most exciting!
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    As we were going over the Sunday School lesson today, it occurred to me that the revelation comprising Section 121 & 122 is probably the best, most practical evidence that Joseph was a true prophet of God. Here is this man who had been through certain levels of torture with several other men for several months. He's hearing reports from the outside about the atrocities being perpetrated on the people he had stewardship over. And there was nothing he could do about it. Even after the "Silence ye fiends of the infernal pit" evening, there were additional efforts to make their lives even more miserable. Then Joseph cries out to the Lord in humble prayer asking,"Where art thou?" Then he reveals a bit of the natural man (IMO) when he says He's asking for some blessing, some protection for those in harm's way. At the same time, he's asking for Divine vengance upon their enemies. Yet the response is that much more stark. That a selfish, or evil, or deluded man who had been tortured for months, had heard news of the atrocities being committed outside the jail, would pen the following response: And then, finally: Do evil, selfish, or deluded men write such divine responses when they have been tortured for months and given to think they've been abandoned by everyone? The world may scoff or unite behind a shield of sophistry. But I feel the Eternal Truth behind these words. They were not penned by a madman or follower of the devil. They were holy writ. I feel the Spirit so testify. I know Joseph was a prophet of God.
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    It's purely a definitional matter, isn't it? What is "the Church"? What constitutes perfection? Personally, I fall on the side of disagreeing with the article. I'm not so much hung up on the wording in this case; it's more like, I don't trust when people want to highlight Church imperfections or attempt to draw unnecessary distinctions between "the Church" and "the gospel". Sure they are different things: The gospel is the good news of Christ's atonement and our salvation, while the Church is the vehicle for proclaiming the gospel and the earthly Zion for an abode for the Saints. But without the Church, the gospel is unavailable to mankind, just as surely as without the gospel, the Church is useless. In my experience, drawing a bright-line distinction between the two is generally unhelpful and is often a step in pulling away from the gospel. I understand the author's point, and I concede there is some truth to what she says. But I dislike the way she says it, to the point that I think she should rewrite the article. In fact, the very 1984 talk she references was originally given in much the same way as her article, emphasizing the separation of and differences between the Church and the gospel. I remember it well; it was given at the first General Conference following my return from my mission, and I was surprised to hear a talk delivered at General Conference that emphasized separation rather than unity. Brother Poelman was reportedly quite unhappy with how his talk was received, and actually asked to re-record his General Conference talk to emphasize the connection between the Church and the gospel rather than the distinction between them. The archived talk is the updated version, not the original version presented at General Conference.
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    Elder Lynn G. Robbins came to my ward today and taught us for nearly the full two hours following sacrament meeting. Here are the notes I took from what he taught. Feel free to ask for clarification if/where needed. I know I didn't miss a single core principle from what he taught. Be like Jesus Christ. Be leads to do, do leads to be. Be is the weightier of the two verbs. You can't count be, you can only count do. Church statistics measure Do, even though Be is the weightier in importance Do is the evidence of be. In the world we have to do lists but not to be lists, because be can't be counted. We all ought to have a to be list. Make a to be list and place items on our to do list that match. Savior is called Rabbi over 90 times in the New testament. Effective teaching is the essence of all callings, Bishop, primary, stake president, etc. No success can compensate for failure in the home. David o McKay. The greatest work you will ever do is in your home. Harold b Lee. The Book of Mormon begins by recognizing the value of the home. Nephi was raised of goodly parents and as a result he was taught. "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." Change the word men to parents. The scriptures show the way the Perfect Parent raises his children, us. The Perfect Parent never forces His children, he teaches them, exports them, etc, etc, but He doesn't force them, they maintain their agency. The Holy Ghost will bother our children more than we will. We need to trust it. By trying to force our children to be good, we plant the seeds of rebellion. Story: Kid doesn't want to go to church for x reason, father says to give his excuse to God since it's God's church, kid ponders and gets ready without further prompting. Doctrine answers why. Principles answer what. Rules are rare, because a slothful servant has to be compelled in all things. The world is opposite. Tax code is between 4 and 5000 pages and is always growing now possibly up to 100,000 pages. How many pages has the Lord given for tithing? Less than 1, it is the true principle, then we govern ourselves. If a person does not understand the principle, they need to be taught the doctrine. When a person understands why, they begin to change themselves. If you ask the prophet if you can drink Coke he will not write you back. We make these decisions on our own. It is better to teach a man to fish than to give a fish. Teach your children to make wise decisions. Teach them to recognize the holy ghost. We must teach our children to be spiritually self reliant. Even let them fail every once in a while. Story: There is no rule on TV watching on Sunday, but when Elder Robbins 10 year old daughter asks to watch Jaws he let her make the decision. She didn't want to make the decision because she wanted to not have the guilt. Eventually she decided to watch it. She later felt bad about the decision and learned to distinguish right from wrong. If he could go back he would have taught her the doctrine right at the crossroads of the decision. Alma 31:5 - And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God. Preaching changes from inside out, sword changes from outside in. Spanking is the sword, discipline is from disciple, we need to teach. Anger is a decision. People don't make you mad, you don't 'lose' your temper. If we believe someone made us mad, we are being acted upon rather than acting. We can choose not to get angry. Story: Before his son became more rebellious as his father became angry, endless cycle. He apologized to his (wayward and rebellious) son and promised to never get angry ever again (Elder Robbins kept his promise). His son eventually repented and kept commandments and served a full mission and is still faithful and active today. "As often as my people do repent, I will forgive them." Consider as: 'as often as my people sincerely partake of the sacrament, I will forgive them. Can priest bless sacrament if wearing an earing? If there church made rules for everything there would be thousands and thousands of pages.' Jews had so many rules for the Sabbath day. Savior heals people on Sabbath. Doctrine: can you do good on the Sabbath? Too many rules destroy spiritual capacity to develop. May a Priest bless the sacrament wearing an earring, sandals, and not a white shirt? Yes. Change question from can he to should he? Teach the young man the doctrine to help him change on his own. We will prove them now herewith to see if they will be obedient. . . Sometimes God's commands are difficult even for the most valiant. Sometimes obedience is the most important why. 1 cup of coffee will not keep you out of heaven, but disobedience will. You can make your kids bed better than they can, but you love them and are patient as they learn. We can teach negative consequences of poor decisions with firmness, not requiring anger. Story: Missionaries parents told him he would have to get job to pay his own way home if wanted to go home early. . . decided to stay. Story: Mother told son if he is mature enough to make the decision to come home early from mission, he is mature enough to live on his own without parental assistance. . . decided to stay. Once you choose the road, you have already chosen the destination. As a result you will become your own judge, because you know the choice you made. Sometimes it's painful. Agency is so important God allowed 1/3 of the host of heaven to rebel and lose their first estate. J.S. taught about how the sealing power is powerful and has a way to bring back wayward children in this life or the next. We can discipline but we never withdraw love, we should never make our children fearful of us. HF is the one perfect parent, we will have more success as we follow his methods.
  23. 8 likes
    The Church has added the following clarification statement:
  24. 8 likes
    In a variant ripped from today's headlines: Is it possible to support same sex marriage white supremacy and hold a current temple recommend? The answer to both questions is probably "yes". But the recommend holder is still colossally, epically wrong.
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    @clbent04, I don't know if this will help you, but it keeps coming to mind, so I'll repeat it here in case it will help you. Some years ago, I recognized that there was something I wanted which was simply not right. But how do you rid yourself of a desire? Self-control by sheer will power will only work for behavior and only for so long when you want something else. Since I could think of nothing else, I determined that I would include in literally every prayer I said a request that the desire be taken away. And then I got up and did the best I knew to obey the gospel as I understood it (I did the Sunday School answers with the best intent I could muster). It took about 2 years for me to notice any difference - by that time, I wasn't looking for any difference, I was just doing my best, following the routine I'd established. It came as a surprise how much my heart had changed. It wasn't me who changed my heart - I still couldn't begin to tell you how to do that. It was Christ. If you haven't done that, I recommend you start right now and continue for however many years it takes. A lot of all the other stuff you've been saying in this thread and others is seriously Satan's lies and deceits designed exclusively to get you to give up hope. Christ has said that as often as we repent, he will forgive. The difference between Celestial and non-Celestial beings is that the Celestial beings kept repenting and the non-Celestial beings gave up. Don't give up. You don't have to obtain mastery of every weakness in this life - that would be a cruel joke as none of us will succeed at that. I am 100% convinced you will have as long as you need to obtain mastery - or as long as you need to give up once and for all and condemn yourself to a lesser kingdom. Which of these you choose is up to you. When I said to tell Satan to take a hike, I meant it literally. If you are alone (or with those who could appropriately hear it), say it out loud and invoke Christ's name as your point of authority. If you are among others, simply say it in your mind. Kick him out. (There are lots of other things you need, but you cannot possibly do this without Christ changing your desires and without kicking Satan out.)
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    Your posts are confusing to me. In one post you say you're looking for the true church and don't have a testimony, but in this post, you say you know this to be true and do have a testimony. Which is it? I'm not a Mormon, so you should probably only listen to half of what I say. It would seem you DO know the truth, so you will be judged more harshly than a fool such as myself. It almost appears you are trying to convince yourself that you don't know the truth so you can avoid accountability. It's too late for that. You can kick this, though. Have you spoken to your wife about this? Gone to a counselor? Attended a group? The bad news is you'll likely struggle with this for the rest of your life. The good news is this is a constant reminder of your commitment to God and He notices your struggle. You are a man. You aren't expected to be perfect. I don't believe God only rewards those who are 100% successful in following His law. If he did there would be nobody in the Celestial Kingdom as you understand it. Nobody. I believe he rewards us for our belief, commitment, and sincere struggle. After all, isn't that part of the experience? This is not insurmountable. Most addiction recoveries involve a declaration of intent, family support, and outside intervention. If you're sincere this time, you can accomplish it.
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    I think everyone should be worried about their own place in the Celestial Kingdom. Not if anyone else will get there.
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    I believe I'll continue to pray for safety for me and my family on my drives.
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    My staff girls who went up for a whole summer to live in tents, shower in crappy showers, and basically run around in the woods all day. Note the jacket uniforms. This is all free will and every single girl in this photo was a repeat camp offender. Girls also like to pretend we're bears for photo ops because we think it's cute.
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    Not every year. Historically, Georgia is the better team. That said, I finished the BoM this morning before work.
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    "Grunt talks to Missionaries" is going to be a best selling novel some day.
  32. 8 likes
    ......AND two young men stopped by the house today. Fortunately, today's generation is the "texting" generation. They denied ever saying anything about Monday. I had them pull out their cell phones to put egg on their face, then ribbed them about it the whole time. Immediately following, "my" online missionary called me and went over the exact same lesson. I'm really glad she did. She's older, more experienced, and much of what she said really hit home. She set another "appointment" with me for Friday. The two gentlemen said they'd call me. I'm so glad I went online, even if I wasn't having issues with my current gentlemen. Much of the conversation really hit home, and having an experienced missionary really makes a difference. I'm also really glad that I've read so much of the BoM before I started my lessons. It puts so much of the lessons into perspective.
  33. 8 likes
    To get you caught up: The Church is/was the biggest participant in the BSA. We had the most units and were the biggest financial contributor. As of 2015, the BSA decided to allow gay leaders in the organization. This was done without our Church's board representatives present. This brought the ire of many members of the Church against the BSA. But the BSA assured the various religious units that each charter organization would have the freedom to make adjustments themselves. This essentially protected the national BSA organization from lawsuits and opened the charter organizations to lawsuits. At the time the Church indicated that We'd see how such "freedom" worked out. The Church had already been working on a plan to separate from the BSA. Now they had impetus to hurry up the development of the program. Their earlier motivation to create such an organization was because the BSA was only a US organization. They were looking to create a uniform program for the entire Church. Many members of the Church wanted immediate withdrawal. Many didn't like the change regardless of the provisions made for religious organizations. We began realizing that the BSA simply didn't represent LDS values anymore. So, we sat quietly waiting for this "new program". Earlier this year the Church announced the new program to be implemented next year. This program only affected 14 year-olds and up. So, the cub scouts and the younger scouts will remain in the program. This essentially cut our participation in half. The BSA will feel the financial pinch from that announcement. Since that day some indicated that it is a sad day because they still valued the BSA goals, believing it is still a good organization for boys to grow up in. I believe the majority opinion of the politically aware are thinking that the Church hasn't gone far enough. We believe we ought to pull out altogether. My belief is that it will be coming in a few years. But the Church needs a program ready to go before we just drop the one we have (i.e. the BSA). Right now we have a program for the older scouts. In a few years, we'll have a program for the younger scouts. Then we'll have one for the cub scouts. But it takes time to develop such programs and then a few years to work out the kinks in the implementation. So, it will be a while for this entire phasing out process.
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    We talked to the bishop and I already feel LOADS better! Thanks everyone for your loving and kind words of encouragement, and giving me the extra little push I needed to come clean.
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    Rushing, maybe? She still has suspicions that LDS is a cult. Even though she was comfortable and enjoyed the service yesterday, I think she's waiting for the curtain to be drawn aside and the three-headed dragon is exposed, handing out Kool-aid. She probably also thinks things are "rushed", but they aren't. In my opinion, her pace is her pace. It has nothing to do with me. I've spoken with the "online" missionaries more and read over half the BoM. Of COURSE my perspective will be different than hers. We've spoken about that, but I can certainly understand why she may feel that way.
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    I actually met a guy in this situation. He married his wife, they had kids, and here ten years later, he was struggling with overpowering thoughts/desires that he's really a woman. He was in therapy, both individual and marriage therapy, trying to treat the thing as a mental illness. He was setting boundaries of behavior for himself, so he'd be able to stay on the correct side of them. Shaving his chest was crossing a boundary - so he was struggling with swimming. Wearing women's clothing was crossing a boundary. He was abandoning a kind of medical treatment for a condition he may or may not have had, because the treatment involved a medication which causes males to grow breasts. Looking at his bare chest in the mirror for longer than a minute was crossing a boundary - as was indulging in imagination trips about being femaile Dood was struggling. He was fighting a battle with himself, and with a bunch of society. I went away understanding a bit more about why suicide rates are off the chart for folks in that situation - he was in anguish. His wife had openly stated she'd stick with him as long as he did everything in his power to stay a him. The minute he decided to shoot for being a 'her', wife would file for divorce. That was her boundary. Lots of struggles people have that I'm really, really, really glad I don't have. This one is in the upper-third of the pile. I have little I can offer in the way of advice or righteous judgment for folks in this situation and the decisions they make.
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    It also sounds like whoever brought up the distinction was implying that a little "casual" pornography use is OK as long as you are not addicted, which is absolutely not correct. All pornography use is bad and will keep you from the temple. The distinction is really more for bishops than for regular members of the church. Bishops should use the distinction in determining what comes after confession, but there should be no distinction for a member in deciding whether to confess and/or quit using pornography.
  38. 8 likes
    I just learned that someone I baptized on my mission has been sealed in the temple! This is always amazing and wonderful news. What makes it even more special, in this case, is that this brother's first wife died a few years ago, leaving him a single father, and he had gone relatively inactive (mostly due to work needs). Then out of the blue he tells me he recently got married in the temple! I waited for him to send a picture, which very clearly has the temple in the background, before I even fully believed it, because I somehow had it in my mind that it was unlikely. I am filled with joy at the knowledge that this brother has progressed to such an extent! He is the only person I baptized who I have been made aware has received the blessings of the temple. I am so grateful to the Lord for blessing this man and his family. I hope each of us can have these wonderful experiences throughout our mortal journey to see the true miracle of change working in our families, friends, and others lives. This is the long game. I hope that we will all be blessed at the final day to be overjoyed at the number of our brethren that will join us in the celestial kingdom!
  39. 8 likes
    But back to the topic I never experienced the "Church Culture" everyone complains about. In fact I have encountered far more complaints about culture than the actual culture. My first day in my mission I went out to eat with a convert family of 10+ years. As soon as the father found out I was from Utah, he started railing in Utah Mormons and was talking about how self righteous they all are and how they are all hypocrites. In this Ward, almost all of the leadership were members from Utah and were all very good people with some of the happiest families I had met. The ones that complained about them and the "Utah Mormon Culture" problem were all semi-active, spent Sunday school gossiping about people who were self righteous, rarely went to help the missionaries, and didn't do their home teaching. This pattern continued in all my areas with varying degrees. All those that complained seemed to try and raise their social/religious standard by dragging others down rather than raising themselves to higher standards. When one would do something righteous, the "non-Utah Mormons" would find some way to deface it and make it look prideful. The most righteous, happy, and impactful people in my life were those that showed unconditional love to all and never worried about culture or how someone lived or didn't live the gospel. These were also the people that took correction and chastisement without retaliation. The "Saints" that consistently complain about other saints are some of the most distasteful I have ever known.
  40. 8 likes
    Then again we were talking about what is taught in the For Strength of Youth. It teaches not to have sex before marriage and to remain faithful to your spouse after marriage. Nothing has changed for adults. We are still taught (even as adults) that we are not to have sex before marriage and we need to remain faithful to our spouse. Again, nothing has changed for adults. It's not a childhood standard. It's a standard for adults as well. Adults should not be sexually active unless it is with someone that they are legally married to.
  41. 7 likes
    Heh. Yeah, my church tries so hard to stay white, that these news stories... are... um... what was I saying? http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-ghana-missionary-training-center-completed (Will house 320-500 missionaries at a time) Not to mention these: Africa: 8 temples Asia: 11 temples Oceania: 10 temples South America: 26 temples Caribbean: 2 temples Central America: 6 temples Mexico: 13 temples
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    I looked Wife With a Purpose or whatever her name is up online. I don't think she would get along with my family. She would probably step into my house and take one look at my Qu'rans on the shelf, large collection of Afro-Arab music, and my family's penchant for eating Indian and Japanese food and run away screaming. I think being stuck in strictly white European culture all the time, as she advises, is BORING. That is why I appropriate from all the world's cultures! (as much as the Church allows). I happen to like playing Japanese RPGs, eating Thai food, listening to Indian music, having African art around my house, etc. I also think her comments about women having a duty to stay slim are chauvenistic and incredibly sexist, not to mention myopic and plain dumb. I pretty much tuned out after this. It is clear we are not her type of people, and she is not my type of person. In fact, she is just the type of person with just the type of mindset that me and my wife would laugh to scorn.
  43. 7 likes
    Awhile back in an Elder Quorum meeting we were discussing Family History and the lead ask me to share my testimony of Family History work. My answer was that I did not have one of Family History, I had one about Christ, the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and the Church, but for all the things I was working on Family History had not made it to the top to be worked on. I was willing to believe that it was true, but until I put the work in how could I know? It was not from the Pulpit and it was not a derailment of the lesson, but instead it worked with the lesson. There were other like me, and there were other with strong testimonies of Family History and the discussion that followed was quite interesting. So such non-testimonies can be shared and can be helpful, but context matters
  44. 7 likes
    I saw my neighbor eat cheerios on fast Sunday during the sacrament. You bet I told the stake president!
  45. 7 likes
    These kinds of things I deal with the same way I learned as taught by the Catholic Church. The ultimate objective is to bring ourselves as well as others closer to Christ. So, it has to strike a balance that maximizes all of us moving closer to Christ. So, in cases of crime and reporting and punishment, the question is always going to be - what is my purpose? Is my purpose to avenge, to hurt as much as I got hurt, to get my pound of flesh, etc. etc? Or is my purpose to put a stop to the action that the person will be protected from committing further atrocities and hopefully get him on the path to repentance, or to put a stop to the action that people around the perpetrator, including myself, can be protected from evil? So every reaction I make to these kinds of events gets to be bounced against the ideal of loving my neighbors as I love myself.
  46. 7 likes
    If it was not due to apostasy, then it was most likely personal sins that he was struggling with. We may yet see him recover and return to the fold.
  47. 7 likes
    Sorry. That sounded negative, but it wasn't meant that way. The details of my first interaction was an "Army" of missionaries at a community event where others were in costume. I was grabbing food for the kids and asked the girls I was next to if they were "real" missionaries. They were, obviously, and we chatted briefly and I asked a few questions. A short time later I was eating with the family at a picnic table and two missionaries walked past and stopped to chat. My wife apologized after they left for "making eye contact" and causing them to stop. Tonight we found out that the two lady missionaries I spoke to IMMEDIATELY called the two males and told them "they had a live one" (my words) and they should get over there and talk to us. All this time I thought it was just coincidence. They had us pegged!
  48. 7 likes
    Seriously why are we worried about what phrases people use? I have enough problems in my own life to worry about whether someone may or not be saying something that is perceived as redundant or without meaning. I give people credit for even getting up to share their testimony or to give a prayer in church. It's not easy for a lot of people.
  49. 7 likes
    I saw the food my wife made and told her she was used to feeding 6-year-olds and she'd better go kill another pig if she plans on feeding two growing young men. She laughed and blew me off as though I were joking. We were back in there cooking more food halfway through brunch once she got a glimpse of what feeding young men is like.
  50. 7 likes
    Brunch worked. Sent them on their way with farm fresh eggs and home made maple syrup.