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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

      Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 14 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of theMormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.

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  1. I'm not a Mormon. At best, I'm a struggling non-denominational Christian. I'm also a person who has done something many non-Mormons won't do. I have always heard so many negative things about Mormons and the LDS. Horrible things that made want to stay clear of Mormons. All my life, childhood, adulthood, in and out church, from everyone including fellow Christian's. Horrible things said about Mormons. One day, servings at my now old church, I had a fellow Christian make a negative remark about Mormons. One remark too many for me to accept. So I asked him, what proof do you have to back up your remark? He struggled, but failed to give any proof. His remarks was based on ignorance and social impressed impression/social acceptence. That was not okay. Facts from learning he failed to have. So this got me thinking that day about what the truth was about Mormons and the howdo I find out. Well, it was days after that some missionaries came to my door. I saw opportunity and it just knocked on my front door. It was this moment where I knew a journey for me was starting. I talked to the missionaries and invested time to learn about Mormons and the LDS. Without any judgement, I gave my desires to learn the truth. Want to know what I learned? ... First, there are endless lies constantly being told about Mormons and the LDS Church. Out of ignorance and other motivated reasons, people tell lies about Mormons. Oh my goodness, the lies I always heard. Misinformed andmisundertood because it is easier to tell a lie than to take out the time to learn the truth. Mormons are good hearted people has a strong sense of family. A sense of family that is stronger than any I've seen from any other faith. A sense of family that can not be compared or equal to any other faith. I was super amaze. I've learned alot about Mormons and the LDS Church. I have more learning to do and I'm not a Mormon, but find myself defending the Mormon faith with an open mind against the lies and insults I hear constantly. No, I'm not a Mormon but I will defend thier faith when I hear lies and insults others say. Why? Cause I have learned the truth about Mormons and the LDS Church and I will not accept anything but the truth. Mormons are good people and always welcome in my life and home. I have more to learn, but I am getting with missionaries. We'll see where my journey goes from hear. Don't need to be a Mormon to like them.
    15 likes
  2. You know, when people say "don't judge me" it almost always means "I know I'm doing something wrong."
    13 likes
  3. I have a legitimate story about a legitimate person who was legitimately triggered. I know a lady who was sexually abused and had PTSD. Her boyfriend took her to see a play - A Streetcar Named Desire. They didn't know at the time, but there's a rape scene in that play. When the scene happened, the lady became physically nauseous. She said to herself "Dang I hate when that happens. I'm trying to enjoy a play, but I can't, because I watch this one scene, and then suddenly I'm having to try to hold down my lunch. PTSD sucks!" Her bout of nausea lasted a good 30 minutes or more. She made herself sit through the rest of the play to prove to herself she could, then went light on dinner. I don't think anyone else noticed, besides her boyfriend, who was so apologetic and felt so bad he almost made himself nauseous out of empathy. She didn't campaign for trigger warnings or safe spaces. She didn't push to have the scene removed from the play. She just bumped up her level of pre-googling and took fewer risks with her entertainment choices. She also, over time, saw her PTSD symptoms subside as she moved through the healthy process of dealing with trauma. Anyway, anyone want to guess what she thinks about all the nonsense going on in the name of being triggered?
    12 likes
  4. is that we never seem to sing "The Spirit of God" at a good tempo. We're supposed to sing and shout with the armies of heaven, not yawn and dirge. It was our rest hymn at stake conference today, and it was so bad that hubby and I were either giggling or dozing off. Good thing they made us stand, at least.
    10 likes
  5. At work we generally say that 10% of the population is the problem. That probably is reasonably accurate. That means the other 90% are not the problem. Yes there are monsters, but you most likely will never deal with them or even be exposed to them. Live cautiously, but not with paranoia.
    10 likes
  6. 10 likes
  7. So . . . you mistrust the Church because it's a presumably wasteful, multi-billion dollar entity; but also despise its attempt to stretch its financial resources by constructing uniform, relatively spartan meetinghouses. You don't want to be judged by having others question your choices; but you reserve the right to judge the Church leadership by carping about the way they manage the resources voluntarily entrusted to them, and dismiss those who trust the leadership as--and I quote--"tithing check writing sheep". I think the most pressing issue here isn't the arcane question of where your money winds up. It's about building Zion. And this "heads-I-win, tails-you-lose" approach you take to the mainstream Church membership and leadership, is ultimately more destructive to Zion than the fact that the Church's approach to charitable giving may in some ways be more Keynesian than Marxist. Do what you want with your money. As you say, a financially powerful church doesn't *need* it; anymore than a universally powerful God *needs* it for well water or schools or clinics or micro-loans. But the way to Zion, both spiritually and temporally, lies with your local priesthood leadership. That ever has been and ever will be so.
    10 likes
  8. Generally speaking, perhaps everyone needs a chill pill. Sometimes, people aren't looking for attention or sympathy. They turn to the internet because they don't have anyone else to turn to, and perhaps being kind is way more important than being right.
    10 likes
  9. For this time and season it's unlikely will influence secular culture much. Sadly, there is enough to do convincing God's people that homosexual practice is wrong. The reason is that God said no. That's it. Those believers who suffer from attraction to the same gender bear a tremendous cross. Should they choose to obey God by remaining celibate, we do well to applaud their faithfulness, and support them through prayer, fellowship and encouragement.
    9 likes
  10. I'm not the only one who doesn't mind being compared to a sheep, right? I mean, I get the common reaction - sheep are fools who set their tiny amount of intellect aside in order to blindly follow whoever it is they follow. Ignorant dupes, fooled by greedy rich white guys who tell them 'pray, pay, and obey' is the only road to happiness. I don't really see it like that. I'm someone who spent a good part of my life outside of the church and not believing, someone who did much soul-searching and criticism-researching, someone who came within a few credit hours of a minor in philosophy looking for which truth I should follow. I did not go blindly or ignorantly into my testimony - I sought it as an earnest seeker of truth. And when I finally, after a year or so of earnest searching, received undeniable spiritual witness of the reality and divinity of God, that He and His Son really were what these outlandish books claimed Them to be, I was grateful. Been happy to number myself among the flock of disciples who follow this particular Good Shepherd. The safety, rest, and direction I've received at the Lord's hand has been worth a heck of a lot more than mere money. I'm glad He left his ninety and nine to come get me. "Tithing check writing sheep". Heh. Maybe I should change my tag line.
    9 likes
  11. Do what you want with your money. But why come to an LDS board and ask questions like this? The majority of us are all thinking, PAY TITHING!!
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  12. The solution to this seems simple to me: 1) Pay your tithing (it's not tithing unless it's paid to the church) and pay another amount to the charity of your choice. ...or... 2) Don't pay your tithing, and accept the consequences of doing so (preferably without lots of teeth gnashing about not getting to choose the consequences - but you do get to choose whether to gnash). I recommend making your decision after serious scripture study and humble prayer. I find this statement of yours a bit odd: I see the impact of tithing with my own eyes. I get to participate myself through church attendance, magnifying my calling, and striving to live a Christ-like life (which includes being anxiously engaged in many good things, in and out of the official church structure, of my own free will). IMO, if you cannot see, you are not looking, or are looking from the wrong perspective. If you don't feel like you are participating, well, go talk to someone in your ward leadership - I'm sure they can help you to find more ways to participate. This is what the church's Humanitarian Aid Fund does, BTW - you can donate to that too - it's right on the tithing slip. A difference to the church? Of course not. A difference to the Lord? Not in terms of how well his work will be accomplished. The riches of the earth are His (including the ones currently in your stewardship and mine), and nothing will stand in His way should He decide to make use of them. A difference to you in terms of how open the windows of heaven are for you personally? Yes, big difference. Careful, they'll call you to be bishop - then you'll see. (PS: See above - it's not "MY MONEY" - it's the Lord's, 100% of it, and He has placed it in your stewardship.) I genuinely want to help people. I don't need to see it. I choose to trust the Lord. That's not because I'm a sheep; I don't need to "see it in action" in order to know I've done the right thing - the right thing being to obey the command to pay tithes (note there's no footnote on that commandment saying, "unless you can find a more effective use of the money"). Most people in my ward don't see where their fast offerings go. (I do.) I'll never likely see where my donations to various other funds go. So what? Why is it that you need to see a (short term) temporal impact of a donation in order to feel good about it? (I'm asking seriously, but as a question for you to consider yourself, not one for you to answer here, as I think the answer to that question is of great importance and worth pondering.) (Actually, I use the online donation system - no more checks for me. Baa.)
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  13. Always have someone proofread your program.
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  14. @Suzie I'm sorry nobody has responded. I don't have you on ignore, I don't use that feature.
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  15. It's probably worth noting that President Young's counsel was tailored to the time and place in which he had grew up. The germ theory hadn't yet revolutionized medicine; Young was only a generation away from the "doctors" who killed George Washington by bleeding him to death. Young's towards healers were never so clear-cut as the selectively cited quotes JoJoBags offers; and as medical practice advanced through the late 19th century his attitudes evolved. By the end of his life he was even "calling" promising young Mormons and sending them on missions to obtain medical training at eastern institutions. See https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V12N03_30.pdf for more. Note that the article contains a Young quote lambasting Mormons who immediately called for priesthood blessings without first taking advantage of proven common-sense remedies; saying that one may as well expect God to help one's crops to grow without bothering to actually plant the seeds.
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  16. "Not exactly the same" is an understatement of gargantuan proportions. Part-member families, or inactive-member families, have hope of repentance and future sealing; and even in homes where the parents are cohabiting-but-unwed, the repentance process does not necessitate the dissolution of the home. I think communication on these sorts of issues will be facilitated when critics of Mormonism finally admit that they wanted to be able to spin the narrative that the Church was teaching kids to break up their "families"; and that those critics are mostly just miffed that they must now content themselves with histrionic tales of kids whose legal custodians weren't about to let them to grow up as Mormons anyways. I mean, let's be honest here. When teenaged posters come into this forum complaining that their parents won't let them be baptized--those in this forum who are on record as opposing the Church's policy, aren't exactly first in line to tell those kids that their parents are "turning them away from Jesus." Because whether they admit it or not, these folks generally don't believe that Mormonism provides a viable path to Jesus. They aren't concerned about these kids' spiritual development; they're just playing games because in their heart of hearts they believe gay sex is more important than the Church's truth claims and the spiritual benefits it purports to offer.
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  17. Maybe. Maybe not. Consider: https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-27?lang=eng “When the Prophet had ended telling how he had been treated, Brother Behunin remarked: ‘If I should leave this Church I would not do as those men have done: I would go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.’ “The great Seer immediately replied: ‘Brother Behunin, you don’t know what you would do. No doubt these men once thought as you do. Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.’”
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  18. Very true. Going to the example you gave a bit further back, let's examine two possible reactions: BISHOP: You are showing a total tithing last year of $1,500, which suggests $15,000 of increase. But Brother Smith, you bought a new BMW two months ago, you added a new wing to your house earlier this year, and you took your entire family to Hawaii for three weeks in October. The people I know with $15,000 of increase per year are living on food stamps and struggle to have enough money to afford a telephone or rent a video twice a year. Can you help me understand the apparent discrepancy? REACTION #1: My finances are private. You are not the tax auditor. I told you I'm a full tithe payer. Now give me my temple recommend and mind your own freaking business. REACTION #2: Of course, Bishop. As you know, I am on permanent disability, which gives me a very small income. Combined with about $3000 in profits from my investments, that accounts for the totality of my income, which is what I tithed. My father has a lot of money, and he owns "my" house. He's the one who added on the wing -- for my benefit, yes. He also bought me the new car to replace the one I totaled in September, and he took us all to Hawaii. I guess I just picked my father well. Which of these two reactions strikes you as the most charitable? Which is the most useful? The most likely to promote understanding? Even if you believe (which I don't) that the man has no obligation to explain himself to his bishop when asked, isn't that the way people who want to build Zion would deal with their leaders? I don't know all the answers. I believe that "trust but verify" is politico-speak for "don't trust". But I cannot find anything amiss when a bishop inquires about an obviously non-standard arrangement of things. That's his duty. And it is our duty to help him in that, to sustain him, including to explain ourselves when asked. That's my belief, anyway.
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  19. He said, "Thou art beautiful in your amorphous dress." She said, "Thy beard is well groomed."
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  20. I agree with Prisonchaplain...God said no. That's it period. End. Stop. That said, my heart goes out to people who have this challenge in life. I think it is the most difficult challenge because it lasts one's entire life, and the shame is terrible. For those who are striving to follow God's word, even a simple crush is shame producing. I understand why some would desire to reject the shame and believe that it is normal. I cannot agree with that, but my heart goes out to them. When I have a chance to sit down with Father again, this will be one of the first questions on my mind. As Prisonchaplain said we should extend to them our prayer, fellowship and encouragement.
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  21. I'll jump in and answer the OP's post, by offering a different example. There is a very bad practice that sometimes happens in Pentecostal circles. At the altars, as young people (roughly 12-16) are seeking the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the expectation they will 'speak in tongues' a prayer-counselor may suggest to the seeker that s/he hum. As they do, the counselor will tap their jaw, and when odd noises come out, declare, "S/he's got it! Their speaking in tongues!" Too many have left those altars convinced that all tongues are fake, and the whole think is nonsense. One of our best known theologians, Stanley Horton, had such an experience, and said it took him a few years before he would once again seek out encounters with the Holy Spirit. Similar stores could be told about praying for the sick, the blessings of tithing, etc. Manipulation and charlatanism by a few, lead many to give in to wholesale doubt. So it is that a bad spin on the facts of an admittedly unusual set of practices and circumstances in early LDS history cause many, who's faith had come perhaps too easily, to consider it all made up, when they read some of those accounts. Likewise, many LDS are joining the many mainstream and Evangelical Christians who have never understood the scriptural basis for sexual and family ethics (such as the Law of Chastity, and the call to heterosexual monogamy) who have come to perceive traditional teaching as mean-spirited and antiquated. This string reminds me of my need to regularly re-affirm the witness of the Spirit as to the truth of the gospel, and the veracity and authority of scripture. All scripture and no love may be Pharisaism, but all feeling and no scripture leads to heresy. May we master in the Spirit's love, and find our foundation is God's Word.
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  22. You're awfully concerned about judgment, yet you come to an LDS list asking for people's opinions -- that is, their judgments. Perhaps you fear other people's opinions (judgments) too much. Having read only what you write above, I suspect you are wrong about people standing ready to think, "Aha! I knew it!" Most people frankly don't really pay much attention to you. They are far too involved in their own lives and problems. And to be blunt, the opinions of any who might possibly think such smug, self-righteous thoughts about you are not worth your attention. Please read and/or listen to this General Conference talk immediately, given last October by Sister Linda S. Reeves of the General Relief Society presidency: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/the-great-plan-of-redemption?lang=eng Pay special attention to the following paragraph: When we have sinned, Satan often tries to convince us that the unselfish thing to do is to protect others from the devastation of the knowledge of our sins, including avoiding confessing to our bishop, who can bless our lives through his priesthood keys as a common judge in Israel. The truth, however, is that the unselfish and Christlike thing to do is to confess and repent. This is Heavenly Father’s great plan of redemption. Please do not fall for the self-deception that it's somehow more honorable to bury your guilt and sin than to face the music. The good, right, brave thing to do is to stand up, admit your actions, and do what is needed to stand clean before the Lord. Please go talk to your bishop immediately. Tomorrow. Yes, he's a friend, but he's more likely to be concerned about you than disappointed in you. Same with your stake president. Please let us know how it goes. You will feel better, and you will be doing the honorable and courageous thing. In the long run, and frankly in the short run, it will be far better for everyone.
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  23. Eve, my experience is that many people build up the Church into their idea of what it should be; rather than recognizing it for what it is. Then, when new information comes in, they can't reconcile it to the illusions they had previously created; so they simply throw it all away without pausing to consider whether there's a baby hiding in all that bath water. For example: many people think that a prophet must be monogamous; and/or that a sealing to a fourteen-year-old must involve deception and sex and pedophilia. Rather than re-evaluate their own assumptions, many just prefer to reject Joseph as a false prophet.
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  24. MH friends, I've had a bad word of a day. My class was out of control: a stealing party, the ADHD bunch were all off their meds/therapy, the one who was smashed by a fridge last year spent the morning in court about it and was thus distracted all day, our grade team meeting devolved into a suspicious rant about other staff and administration, which left me feeling negative, we burned dinner, and my daughter chopped her hair off. I need Girl Scout cookies, a bubble bath, and my guilty pleasure Amish romance novels. And yet, I found myself reminded that about this time last month I was in the hospital as my other daughter fought off bacterial meningitis. I am so lucky my biggest trial right now is a bad day at a job I otherwise love and my kid cutting her own hair. Rant/acknowledgment of blessings over.
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  25. The irony here is.. this person comes and belittles, attacks, and degrades faithful members of the church while claiming to be one. And then when the forum members in general do not quietly take it... he casts us as the uncharitable bad guys. As if on this site of faithful LDS we should let his highly venomous attacks on our faith, our church, our leaders, and our membership go uncontested.
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  26. Regardless of whether OP is sincere, I have seen this type of thinking before. Approximately one third of the missionaries in my old mission have left the Church. Very few appear to have "traded up" to a religion they believe is more correct. Most of them started with questioning the integrity of the church and asking questions like, "can i pay fast offerings instead of tithing to protest (insert grievance here)?" From there, these missionaries have slowly embraced secularism, and many are completely inactive or have turned to agnosticism even. Some have fallen into deep sin and have lost wives, children, everything. I am amazed and shocked with this development, that so many missionaries who were much more effective than me just 13 years ago could apparently completely turn away from God like that in such a short period of time. If there is any truth at all to OP's post, I would beg him to take a long hard look at his life, his attitude towards the Church, his attitude towards God, his attitude towards life, everything, and sincerely pray with God about it. I dont want him to be at judgment and realize he has lost his eternity for a mess of worldly pottage and the philosophies of men. I have seen this too much among people I know and love, saying very similar things, and it is really, really sad.
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  27. Thanks for the thoughts and positive vibes. I'm emotionally in limbo right now. There's so much to figure out, and yet, time ticks away. We have agreed to attend counseling and get some insight from a middle person. Not to get too detail, the situation is not abuse, but neglect that has caused a lot of hurt and resentment. We also agree that the best outcome -- whatever that is -- is for us to be a functional dad and functional mum for our kids.
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  28. I once printed it onto a bar of soap. That Cake was a lye.
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  29. I thought I'd give an update. I talked to my Bishop and asked if it could give us the contact information for someone at LDS Family Services that we could work with. Apparently it doesn't quiet work that way. Our bishop reached out to Family Services and asked that it be done and Family Services reached out to us. (This took a couple weeks) They started with an survey for him and one of his parents. After they had time to look that over, they setup appointment for an in person interview. We have finished that The next step is for LDS Family Services to document their findings and report to the Church (Bishop, Stake President, Mission Department) and us their recommendation. We are waiting on that. We were told the recommendation can go one of 4 ways. 1 He is recommended as Good to Go. 2 He is recommended for further counseling 3 He is recommend for a service mission rather then a full time mission 4 He is recommend as not able to serve The recommendation with have the supporting documentation for that action. It will then be in the hands of the Church leadership, and of course the Potential Missionary, how they respond to the recommendation. This is what we wanted to have happen Thanks for you help in figuring this out.
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  31. Sure, a thought on your non-judgmental-judgemental post... You are only here in an attempt to antagonize people and really could care less what we think.
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  32. Heh. They made me financial clerk, so I do tithing now. I just finished a four hour financial audit. The stake auditor is a cop, with years of criminal auditing experience. It was a fun audit. He discovered we wrote a check that reimbursed a member $7.82 for cheese, when they only spent $6.82. We were dinged for that.
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  33. How is it possible that women and men can be simultaneously godly and wicked? All of us are wicked. All of us. We all offend God by our weakness and ungodliness. All of us are Godly. All of us (with perhaps very rare exceptions of those who have actively sought to extinguish all traces of God from their souls). We all have some aspect of divinity within us. What is our duty to ourselves? To seek to repress the wicked within us and to nurture the Godly. What is our duty to others? To forgive the wickedness we see in them, and to encourage and celebrate the Godly, that they might develop it even further.
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  34. Since we've been talking a lot lately about mental health. Anxiety and Anxiety Disorders - March 2017 https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/03/anxiety-and-anxiety-disorders?lang=eng
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  35. Even from a purely secular perspective, I don't think anyone here is trying to say that psychiatry isn't a flawed science. The nature of the human mind and mental illness still have an element of mystery to them. That's why people like my mother have to have their meds adjusted from time to time. But guess what? She's always been much better off with meds than without. That, combined with her faith, is what gives her the ability to get through the day. Get it through your head, faith and modern medicine are not mutually exclusive.
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  36. @Jojo Bags Did Elder Holland lack faith to be healed when he was in the grips of depression? Are you really suggesting that the Brethren are leading the Saints down false paths because, "Well, they don't have enough faith to do it the right way. [shrug] I guess we'll just advise the wrong way."
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  37. I have a buddy who tendered his resignation the morning he heard about the new policy. He hadn't been inside a church in two decades, and has been loudly critical of the church and it's policies and members for a long time. Despite what people want to think, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of people left the church over this policy. It barely made the tiniest ripple in our membership numbers. I would guess, hearing the online stories from dozens of these people, that the majority of them are like my friend - inactive and unbelieving for a long time, just finally got ticked off enough to do something about it.
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  38. People have no idea what it is to make real decisions that affect millions/billions/trillions of individuals. They expect that every decision made by a perfect God will have perfectly acceptable results for all people involved. NYET! If you're a manager of people, you know that almost every decision you make is going to tick someone off. And it may even be different people who react with each decision. The more people you're in charge of, the more likely there will be people who disagree, don't understand, and even get ticked off about the decision. A good manager isn't about a popularity contest. He's about doing what is right. God being a perfect God is not about trying to make sure everyone agrees with Him. He's about making the decision that is right, not the decision that is popular. When individuals get the idea that they know better because of how things affect their exception to the rule, they have lost all sense of obedience to God and have sided with Satan who dared to leave heaven rather than follow the Father. How'd that work out for him?
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  39. I meant this to be a lighthearted post, but it really is kind of an annoying thing. Slow =/= reverent. One time, I was playing Spirit of God or some sort of anthem in sacrament meeting at what I felt was a joyous speed. Someone came to me after the meeting and asked if I didn't think I was playing a little too fast and irreverently. No, I think slow can be distracting and even irreverent, when we're supposed to be singing jubilant praise.
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  40. If I prayed and felt a witness to the veracity of Joseph Smith as God's Latter-day prophet, followed by his successors, and then to the LDS faith as God's truest representation of spiritual community, and the only holder of religious authority, AND THEN came to believe that none of it was true--that I had been duped--then I'd run AWAY FROM anything that stunk of religion. I would figure that all metaphysics was fantasy, and very likely would become a non-religionist. After all, I got fooled once by trusting "my heart," why open myself to being tricked again? IMHO, the phenomenon you cite makes total sense. Opponents of your church who operate out of religious motivation should take this reality to heart.
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  41. It is one thing to dislike / disagree. It is another to accuse the church of being inconsistent with other policies and doctrine when the consistency is clearly demonstrable. I think that is where the disconnect seems to be happening.
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  42. Right. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: I'm glad to be a sheep.
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  43. I pay a full tithe not only because it's a commandment but also because I like having electricity, heat/ac, water to drink, etc when I go to church or the temple (this is what I "see with my own eyes" but maybe you don't). I pay fast offerings to help the local poor as well as help with other things that come around (angel tree, school clothes, food bank, etc). Then I pay into the various other options the church provides because I do want to help the needy around the world but don't trust other organizations to do it better than the church can and does. As far as seeing it with my own eyes, my in-laws sent pictures from their mission where they helped villages get water wells (the church provided the supplies, the villagers the labor or something like that - but a partnership none-the-less so people are invested in what they get). This is just one example but you get the idea. And btw - I don't consider myself a 'sheep' - I feel great about what I'm doing but to each his own.
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  44. I personally pay my tithing, and then do other good things with other money. I've given to the church's Humanitarian Aid fund for years. Also their Perpetual Education fund. One helps break the cycle of multigenerational poverty in poorer countries, the other helps people after a disaster. If you ain't sold on tithing, you might want to consider those two. You want to see where the money goes and how it helps people? Here - click the links. https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/humanitarian-services/funds/humanitarian-general-fund.html http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865663385/Perpetual-Education-Funds-success-led-to-massive-expansion-of-LDS-effort-to-lift-the-poor.html
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  45. Seems that you've made up your mind. What was the question?
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  46. I don't speak for WEnglund, of course; but I would modify his allusion from "the state" to "society". This encompasses the sorts of pressures conservatives often feel they are up against--with public shaming/shunning, job loss, petty vandalism (keyed cars, etc) frequently deployed against those who flout the conventional boundaries of acceptable discourse. I would also broaden even Eowyn's paradigm to three general categories: --Political correctness: a person self-censors due to fear of external consequences imposed by society or government. --Kindness: A person self-censors out of a sympathy/empathy for another, respect for that person's dignity, and/or and a sincere desire to avoid causing pain. --Civility: A person neither particularly empathizes with one's opponent nor fears any material consequences for speaking bluntly; yet makes a conscious decision to self-censor in order to avoid inflaming passions; for the sake of peaceful coexistence and/or persuasion via continued reasoned discourse.
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  47. There are psychiatrists who consider their work a calling from God. For every psychotropic drug that gets prescribed too quickly, there are likely dozens who should have gotten/taken them and did not. I've seen people transform when they get on their medication. One fellow told me he was thinking about discontinuing his medications because he wanted to believe God for healing. I asked him if the drugs helped him to think more clearly. He affirmed that they did. I said that for today those drugs are God's gift to him. Why would he turn away God's gift? When God chooses to heal him the doctors will confirm what the LORD has done. Later I found out that if this fellow had gone off his medications for even a few days he would have become dangerous to others and himself. I truly believe the Holy Spirit guided me in the counsel I gave him.
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  48. I think it's the approach that Vegans use that tends to make us view you as extremists. My brothers and his family are vegans and so I am close to the situation so I will let you know how it feels for me and why it leaves negative feelings for both of us. I liken their veganism as almost a new religion to them. They are very vegan (just like we are very Mormon). They want to share their knowledge with us (missionary work). They believe only the way they eat is the right way (we belong to the only true church of God). So in ways we share alot in common as with holding firm to our beliefs and getting others to join us. However it is the way Vegans come across that pushes us away, makes us feel uncomfortable and makes us view you as extremists. Imagine if I was teaching the gospel to a Catholic ( or any other religious person). "I say to him, my church is the only true and living church, it's the only way you can get to heaven. You don't believe in Joseph Smith, you are a horrible person for not believing in Joseph Smith. You have a different opinion on God, you are a bad person for not believing in God, because you don't believe in God like I do, you must not love God. Because you don't love God you are a horrible person. Now would you like to here about the only true and living gospel on the earth? Unless you join my church I will no longer treat you the same. I have the gospel, I am so much better than you are because I have a testimony and knowledge of God. " The discussion wouldn't get go so well, and I wouldn't have a convert, I would probably have someone who thought I was a religious extremist. And they wouldn't want to here anymore from me. And it goes the same for vegans, all I hear about is how horrible of a person I am, and how their belief on how to eat is the only way to eat. Here is what I hear from vegans "I'm vegan, being a vegan is the only way to eat. You don't believe in being vegan? You are a horrible person! You believe in eating animals? You are a bad person for believing that you can eat animals, because you eat animals you hate animals, don't say you love animals because you don't, you don't love any animals, not even the cat and dog you love and care for. You don't love animals? You are a bad and selfish person. Now watch this, this and this and you will understand where I am coming from, you will want to be vegan. If you don't become vegan, I will treat you differently. I am such a better person than you are because I don't eat animals." It doesn't really give the person in either situation a good feeling about the one giving the message. I think Vegans would come across alittle bit better if they let go and tried not to force it upon other people, just as we can't force the gospel on anyone. It's the way they present it and try to force it upon us that pushes us away and makes us view the as extremists. I hope you don't mind the analogy and hope aren't many typos but I just wanted to share how others have made me feel.
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  49. It's a delicate balance, to be sure. In regards to Islam, I know I've mentioned before how there's a very fine line between calling Islamic terrorism what it is and using it as an excuse to persecute/profile against Muslims in general. I'm all for blunt honesty in public discourse, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally step back and make sure that "telling it like it it" isn't igniting dangerous ideologies. That's the funny thing about rhetoric. Two public figures can convey the exact same message, but mobilize very different segments of society based on how they deliver their message. I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with some of the groups of people that have started coming out of the woodwork recently as a result of "telling it like it is". FWIW, I agree that PC culture has gotten a bit out of hand. This became inescapably clear to me when a very close long-time friend of mine began worrying about her use of the word "y'all" because she read somewhere that it might have roots in 19th Century slave culture. That level of concern about cultural appropriation is absurd, imo. Then again, I remember the days of my youth playing "cowboys and Indians" and using the words "gay" and "retarded" to describe things that I thought were dumb. It seems that each generation is more culturally sensitive than the one before. That isn't always a bad thing, but where do we draw the line? When does acceptance circle back to oppression? At what point does critical thought suffer in the name of political correctness? Needless to say, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with modern liberals. It seems not that long ago that liberalism was more about channeled angst than hurt feelings. It's like the classic punks vs. hippies clash all over again.
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  50. First, when will you directly address the questions that are posed to you instead of constantly try to avoid them? Or is it that you are afraid to clearly state that you do not agree with the words of a GA? Personally, I do not see anything wrong if you do, but just say so. My question was clear and yet you did not answer it directly. You seem to have a very restrictive way of thinking, either doctors or faith even though you have claimed in other posts that you do believe doctors have their place. No one argues the power of faith and the power of the Priesthood, why is it so hard for you to understand that? And yet we are presenting to you quotes from Church leaders stating that sometimes BOTH are NECESSARY. Why do you have an issue with that? Furthermore, you make a very appalling and irresponsible statement stating that "depression is a disease of the spirit, not the body.". Are you a medical doctor? This is your OPINION, as misguided and dangerous as it it, and should be stated as such: "In my opinion..." Please provide MODERN quotes from Church leaders (and official sources) stating CLEARLY that ALL we need to do is to have Faith and not rely on doctors to be healed. I personally challenge you to provide those quotes. The journal of discourses is not an official publication of the Church.
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