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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.
    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).

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  1. 12 points
    Translating this into English, we get: "We've broken it short of intercourse, but don't want to face that fact." IMO, go see your bishop(s) who can help you understand the seriousness of it. Perhaps right after you go get a civil marriage to ensure you don't sin further. I have also found that a detailed study (which is not the same as "reading scriptures", and which includes pondering, note taking, and more pondering) of something you think you understand will give you greater understanding.
  2. 12 points
    Frankly I'm a little surprised that you even have to ask. You really need to really think about the commitments that you made in the temple and what you are doing to uphold those commitments. If your having such a hard time keeping your hands off of each other go get married now.
  3. 12 points
    One reason, is because until the covenant is made, there isn't a covenant in place. Up until that moment, either party is fully able to back out of the deal at any time, with or without reason. And it happens.
  4. 12 points
    Well, and even to amplify your question a bit: Why does Heavenly Father allow people who abuse others (such as children) to serve in positions of authority (such as parents)? I think we are right to expect Church leaders to be generally a more righteous and harmless set of men than your randomly-selected, average sample; and I think as a general principle that is true. But they aren't all safe, and they don't all get immediately caught; and I see the issue fundamentally as still being one of theodicy. Sometimes God intervenes, sometimes He doesn't, and we don't always know why. I do believe that LDS leaders (and, pretty much, everyone else on earth) have claim on revelation/inspiration, to the degree that a) they are willing to seek it and pay the price for it, and b) the Lord deigns to give it to them; and when those conditions occur, the leader's authority and inspiration can mutually reinforce each other in a way that makes for much more effective leadership than what I've ever seen attained in any other organization. But for what it's worth, I had a couple of APs on my mission who made my life a living hell for a couple of months; and in that particular case after a lot of wrestling and prayer, the answer I got (which is not completely satisfying, and probably doesn't apply in every scenario; but it was enough to carry me when I needed to be carried) is that sometimes God just gives people enough rope to hang themselves.
  5. 12 points
    Just_A_Guy

    The MTC Abuse Story

    The big question mark, of course, is what does "doing more" mean? Where does the rubber hit the road? I do like @Sunday21's idea of having a glass partition between the clerk's office and bishop's office. But that said, windows are to ecclesiastical sex abuse what banning AR-15s is to gun violence: They are solutions geared towards a statistically-insignificant subset of the problem. Most abusive ecclesiastical leaders aren't doing the nasty with female congregants right there in their offices. Bishop's case is a statistical outlier, but even his alleged assaults didn't happen in his regular office; he had apparently set up another room for his use. And as the administrator of what is essentially a small-sized college complete with dorm rooms, if the administrator wants a place for his rendezvous . . . he's going to have the power to set that up. He just is. So, what changes are we really looking at? So far, those leading the outrage seem to want changes in the power/relational dynamics at play; and to this end I've seen advocating for five major changes: 1) Every allegation is to be believed--not only in dealing with the victim on a therapeutic basis; but in dealing with the perpetrator on a punitive basis; 2) Alleged perpetrators are to receive formal LDS discipline forthwith, with the victims being made aware of the results; 3) ecclesiastical leaders should receive no special deference within their congregations; 4) ecclesiastical leaders should not be interviewing congregants on a one-on-one basis; and 5) ecclesiastical leaders shouldn't be talking about chastity issues with youth under any circumstances. Without going into too long of a rant; suffice it to say that I think 1), 2), 3), and 5) are nonstarters; and I think the ultimate resolution of 4) is that it's going to need to be determined by individual bishops on a case-by-case basis. Also, I agree with @The Folk Prophet . When Ms. Park says that "One of the biggest issues in our community is how the faithful and the non-faithful interact. It has been an issue that has long-since plagued our people"--well, ma'am, it's a faith community. Traditionally when one chooses not to have faith in the community's truth claims, one elects not to remain in the community. The issue is that Mormonism's "faith community" has worked so well, from a socio-cultural standpoint, that it has accrued a lot of sociological bling that the disaffected don't want to give up. So they make a concerted effort to get the overall faith community to abandon its truth claims and replace them with a faith in sociological riches attenuated to left-wing social justice theory; never stopping to wonder whether they may be killing the doctrinal goose that's been laying all those culturally golden eggs. But then those pesky "True Believing Mormons" push back on the grounds that a) they sort of like Mormonism the way it is, and b) they're pretty sure God does too. And the disaffected completely lose their cookies over the resultant impasse. They hate us; they honestly hate us—with a depth incomprehensible to those who haven’t been subjected to it; and with a justification incomprehensible to those who have been subjected to it. What Ms. Park (who, by the way, is one of the head honchos over at the "Feminist [anti-]Mormon Housewives" blog) is really saying is, "I'm not going to let this crisis go to waste. Not only am I going to push for changes that are going to make Mormonism "safer"; but I'm going to push for ways to convert Mormonism from a religion to a social club."
  6. 11 points
    Hello folks. Prepare for a rant. Prepare for awful, possibly non-pc and even legitimately controversial things. I'm not posting this is Advice because I am feeling the happiest I have felt in months. 4 years ago, I went to work full-time. Yes, as a working mom. I went to teach in a charter school. I enjoyed my job. I enjoyed spending time with my family. Last year, I found myself tiring. Not of my trade but of the school. I put out my feelers for other positions. I was even offered a part-time position because part-time seemed very good. I ultimately chose to stay where I was. Worst decision ever. I recently told the school I would not be returning next year. And no, I don't have another job lined up. This year, I have been assaulted multiple times by students. I am at over 50% special issues. My school, being a charter, has attracted enough of a certain population that it has hired three people to work specifically with behavior issues with the plans of creating a behavior unit. I have students who cry if someone looks at them the wrong way but have no qualms about going full-on sailor language while beating up another student. My school has introduced a behavior program that we are expected to follow, chose not to train us, and punishes teachers if a kid does wrong. The SPED aide for my grade is afraid of my room. I have been a nervous wreck for months. I have self-harmed and felt something akin to suicidal. I have felt such happiness knowing I will be leaving. My husband supports me and even wonders if I can just make up the income just teaching online so I can be home with our kids. Perhaps I'm a bad teacher thinking about kids so poorly, but I am so sick of parents dumping all social educational on schools. I am so sick of special education inclusion ultimately meaning "put all IEP responsibility on the general ed teacher so we can save money and look good". I may have put my family into financial trouble, but I don't care. I feel great. This might be what needs to happen.
  7. 11 points
    Fether

    The MTC Abuse Story

    I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it. i get annoyed when people say things like “We have a problem in this church!”. If we are going by Holland’s definition of “too much *insert sin*”... any amount is too much lived in Colorado for 10 years, KY of 2, and Utah for 10. I hear all sorts of people complaining about some church culture another and all I can think of is “The only people I see with these problems are the ones complaining about them”. I feel like the idea and possibility of it once happening and maybe happening again causes so massive of a fire that we never stop to think “is this really happening”. I feel like those hurt the most by “the system” are those that don’t understand the system or don’t use it how it ought to be used. And of course the small percentage of examples where something awful really is or did happen do arise too. I also thought the phrase she used to poke at the culture “if you aren’t faithful, you aren’t trustworthy”... ya... that’s what that means xD people who keep their covenants are a lot easier to trust than those that make them but don’t keep them. And when she says “I have been privy to some behind-the-scenes details of this story and have been discussing a lot on my wall. “I get kinda annoyed when people take this stance of supposed power against problems that are already being addressed by general authorities. Why do words of a frustrated blogger sway our hearts more than the words of the prophets?
  8. 10 points
    You don't quit living the law of chastity after you get married. On the contrary, it gets even more important. Don't make a mockery of your most intimate relationship by prostituting your sexuality for your own gratification. You will lose the Spirit of God for such solemn mockery, as will your fiance. He will have no power in the Priesthood. You will be refusing the blessings of God in order to gratify your sex organs. Don't do it. You were a missionary. Go back and review all that stuff you taught people for 18 months.
  9. 10 points
    zil

    Relevation & Inspiration...MTC abuse

    @person0 asked this question too, and without a split second to think about it, I knew the answer (that she did speak out sooner is irrelevant - had she not, I knew why not, yet you two feel the need to ask - you don't understand why). I would be willing to be that the majority of women wouldn't have to think about it either, and would come up with the same answer. (It's possible, hopeful even, that the younger the woman, the more likely it is that she'll have to think about it.) NOTE (cuz ain't no one gonna like what comes next): I am not, herein, trying to blame anyone, find fault with any system, complain about gender roles, stereotypes, or education, or whatever. I'm just telling you my own answer to that question and that I believe the majority of women would give the same answer - right or wrong. Here's part of the answer, and it's a part that I expect the majority of women know. And there, you're answering your own question - and again, known to women. We have been raised in a world1 that says: You should be ashamed. You're damaged / ruined / defiled - you're less than you were. You shouldn't have been there. You're nothing, he's a big wig, without really solid proof and three witnesses (preferably male), no one will believe you. You should have known better. You weren't righteous enough to recognize and flee from the danger. You were wearing the wrong thing / saying the wrong words / smiling at the wrong time / giving the wrong looks. You were gullible and foolish. If you'd spent more time in prayer or scripture study, the Lord would have protected you. etc. All of which adds up to - it's your fault. No matter how much your brain tells you that's a lot of garbage, when it's subconsciously drilled into your head over a lifetime (even though you're not sure how, or by whom), it can be almost impossible to overcome. 1Now I would also bet that the majority of men are saying: "What planet are you on? We weren't raised in this world. Who taught you such nonsense? How did you come to this conclusion? That world is long past, if it ever existed." And yet...
  10. 10 points
    I think the missing piece is that you don't understand the mind of a victim if sexual abuse. Apparently, she had been abused before, which unfortunately happens often. Victims almost always feel tremendous shame and blame themselves. That makes it difficult to advocate for oneself, especially when your spiritual leaders dont believe you.
  11. 10 points
    Just_A_Guy

    The MTC Abuse Story

    I think it really comes back to the idea of Chesterton’s fence. Once you show that you understand what the fence is, why it’s there, and what purpose it serves, I’ll be more open to hearing about the negative side-effects the fence creates and how those side-effects can be mitigated in a way that still serves the fence’s original purpose—and at some point I may be open to seeing the fence modified or removed. Precious, precious few would-be “reformers” of Mormonism seem to have given any thought to this whatsoever.
  12. 9 points
    The short answer is, it's the Lord's rule, not ours! We don't make the rules, the Lord does. Unfortunately, we also don't get to choose the consequence. For someone who has been on a mission (and has presumably been through the temple), the consequences of breaking the law of chastity is, frankly, disaster (likely disfellowshipment if you repent, telestial kingdom if you don't). If you are having a tough time keeping the law of chastity with your fiance, maybe you should consider getting your fiance and just going to the courthouse and getting married, today. It may not be an ideal solution, but it is worlds better than trying to wait a couple of months and winding up breaking the law of chastity !
  13. 9 points
    estradling75

    NO MORE HOME/VISITING TEACHING!

    Sounds to me that Ministering will be what we were always taught that Home and Visiting Teaching Should be. So those celebrating its demise could very well find themselves in for a rude awakening. And I predict that those who wouldn't make Home or Visiting teaching work will not make Ministering work either.
  14. 9 points
    Blossom76

    Just the good things

    As most of you know I've been a serious investigator of the LDS faith. While I have decided its not for me, I feel its important to point out all the good and beautiful things I learnt, and think everyone could learn from the LDS way of life. Family Night - Having a dedicated night once a week for your family to be together is a great practice, one I certainly will be keeping. Spiritual Connection - I really connect to and feel the spirit every time I pray now. Coming from a catholic background that has very ritualistic prayers I never learnt how to really connect my heart to God, I will forever be grateful to the LDS church for teaching me how to do that, its the best feeling ever. To be open to new ideas - Studying another faith really opens your eyes to another viewpoint, nothing makes you understand how crazy some of the things are in your own faith like looking at the crazy and unexplainable in another's. Take your health seriously - this is such a great message of the LDS church, you only get one body, if you ruin it you'll have no where to live. Taking care of yourself really is a spiritual thing. I know there are heaps of other things I can't think of right now. I'd love to hear from others.
  15. 9 points
    Vort

    The MTC Abuse Story

    Great, Lindsay. Thank you for admitting your complicity in abuse. BUT -- don't speak for anyone else. YOU, Lindsay Hansen Park, are abusive, not the guy sitting next to you in the pew. Don't accuse him unless you have some pretty compelling evidence. And don't accuse me. Speak for yourself, and no one else. Or maybe we simply are not willing to cop to evils we didn't do. Translation: I've been happy to see so many virtue-signalling Mormons who are willing to rush to judgment without having all the facts, because it furthers my own narrative. Doing away with the rest of my commentary. Maybe I'm just jaded and Lindsay is sincere. But her approach to the issues is fundamentally flawed, and her analysis of LDS culture is half-baked. Even assigning the best of motives to her, what she writes is mostly ignorable.
  16. 9 points
    The Folk Prophet

    Ward "Succession"

    I don't think keys are in any way related to who sits on the stand, or conducting. but as to your question: "If the bishop and his counselors are all absent, the stake president designates who presides at sacrament meeting. Normally he designates the high priests group leader, but he could authorize another priesthood holder instead." Edit: source: https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church/18.2.1?lang=eng#182
  17. 8 points
    I'm going to be blunt because the cloud of hormones and emotions you are in shields your conscience to a degree. How many couples have felt as you do, either on the night they meet or soon after or while engaged, yet wind up not getting married to each other. You don't think he'll back out or that you will, but so did all those others who went and had sex while engaged then had the engagement fall apart. How do you think they felt when they found out they gave their virginity to somebody who won't be marrying them after all? How do you they felt having to confess what happened later on to the person they actually do marry? Your sexuality is the most God like power you have in mortality. What makes sexual relations permissible in the eyes of God is not your emotions or how committed you feel, it is the covenant you make with God and each other. You have not made that covenant, so sexual relations are not permissible yet. God gave you those feelings to lead you into marriage where they can and should be expressed. God has set the standard and he did that knowing how you (and every other engaged couple) feel and the desires you experience. Do you trust him enough to deny your desires for a short time? Sexual self control is important for married people too. If years down the road your husband said he felt so in love and so committed to some other woman would you then be OK with him sleeping with her? Of course not, he would be violating a covenant. Likewise you have both made covenant at baptism to follow Christ, andsince you both have been endowed already there is a very clear covenant about the law of chastity made in the temple you both made. If you have had oral sex, or manual sex, dry humped or fondled each other's sexual parts through clothing or not then you certainly have crossed the line and need to see your Bishop pronto. The fact that you are engaged will more than likely make the path to repentance easier but you still need to repent of anything like that if you did it. Taking the sacrament unworthily is a serious thing, how much more so for temple ordinances? How valid do you think God will view you marriage covenant if you make it while unworthy to be in the temple? Do you think you can expect his blessing when you break his commandments? As for enjoying it, it is designed to be enjoyable, but that doesn't make it right and doesn't mean there won't be a price to pay down the road. It is a physical reaction, a reflex. Tickle somebody and they laugh even if they are sad. Your feelings and desires and hormones and what you expect in the future do not define what is right and wrong, so don't try to use those things to justify what you know is a violation of God's commands. If it really is that big a problem, repent then get married the day the Bishop clears you or as soon after as humanly possible.
  18. 8 points
    We must not rely on "the world's wisdom" to make our decisions, but it can be reaffirming when they agree with us. Sociologists tell us that when couples live together they develop a relationship in which either party can bail when s/he feels the arrangement is not working out. For people of faith, who learn that sex before marriage is prohibited, it's easy to argue that breaking the Law of Chastity is a version of living together. Marriage, and its accompanying covenants, just don't mean as much once a pattern of "I can leave at any time" is established. Then, of course, there is Genesis 2 (which Jesus quoted), in which we are told that the man and woman first leave their mothers and fathers (that meant marriage back then), and THEN become one flesh. God's Word is just smart business--including the family.
  19. 8 points
    NeuroTypical

    The MTC Abuse Story

    The more you look into the horrible world of child/youth sex abuse, the more dark horrible stuff you discover. Yes indeed, it's absolutely common for abused kids to act out and turn into abusers themselves. It can span generations. I've witnessed a young kid acting out. She couldn't be left alone with her younger sister. She physically attacked me. She had found mom's wine and was sneaking as many gulps as she could, whenever she could. She was like 9 or 10. Heartbreaking. Just the decade-old memory of the thing still hurts. Poor girl. This crap is a cancer, that spreads best in the dark. The less it's talked about, or thought about, the more successful it can be. It's why I started the thread here, and why I'm often so gung-ho to discuss it. Y'all take whatever side in whatever public debate you see fit. But if something like this actually grabs someone within your stewardship - you dang well better figure out the truth and do what needs to be done. Your complacency may burden you forever, and may speak out against you at the final judgment. I'll just testify that it is possible to Love thy Neighbor even as you speak out against them in court, and try to influence parole boards to keep him locked up, and sever ties with your parents because of the whole thing. Hard, but possible.
  20. 8 points
    This is a picture of a little boy praying in front of a missing childrens board at Walmart.
  21. 8 points
    Thinking on this more... Many fond memories of my childhood are of 1-on-1 moments with leaders. ....I remember one time- I was 12, and their was this boy named Ross in the ward that really liked me and kept pressuring me into giving him a kiss for his 13th birthday. I did not share the feeling back-- rather i was/am an abuse victim and the thought of giving him a kiss radiated SO wrong with me / absolutely terrified me. I didn't want to talk to my parents abut it- we had an extremely rocky relationship. I did NOT want anyone to know about Ross. Eventually though, I did turn to my Beehive advisor. She was a woman named "Julie", about 21 years of age. She assured my terrified self it would be ok, and I shouldn't feel pressured at all. When I didn't immediately relax, she came up with the idea of giving him a Hersey kiss instead! So we went to the store, and bought a giant bag of Hersey kisses! And me of course, being a chocolate-holic, ate them all. The last time I saw Ross he asked me "hey, don't I get my birthday kiss?", and I laughed and said "nope, I ate them all!", and walked away. It... on one hand the whole story was kind of silly, but on the same hand also deeply profound. Julie helped me have confidence n myself, to say "no", and have it be ok. With her I felt special- because I was special- she just helped me see that fact. Our relationship help empower me, and see my own beauty. It was just a special moment, just the two of us.... honestly I've never told this story before and am crying typing it up now. It was special. We've heard a lot about bad things which can happen 1-on-1 the last few weeks. And certainly they can- I personally know that all too well. But I also know all too well the many good things that can happen 1-on-1 too, so many of the good times which outnumber the bad. The new church policy... it is a prudent and needed move, I'm not going to argue with that. But there's also something which is lost here too, and part of me-- the part that remember Julie and so many other special moments that helped me through troubled times... part of me also mourns today.
  22. 7 points
    Vort

    Missionary Numbers - stats, ugh.

    I'd just like to point out that the Church today is larger than it ever has been in all of history. There are more active, believing Latter-day Saints than at any other time. I bet Latter-day Saints comprise a larger percentage of the worldwide population than ever before (albeit still tiny, perhaps no more than one active Latter-day Saint per thousand people). Yes, we have challenges. Yes, many in the western world have at least temporarily succumbed to the temptations of decadence and death. But truth goeth onward. Our children need not be threatened by these evils, if we teach them truth and help them understand how to find it for themselves. No pickle-suckers here!
  23. 7 points
    Every now and then, when you are on Facebook, instead of doing homework, you get rewarded...or maybe directed back to homework? I love the work of Dr. John Gottman, so I follow his page The Gottman Institute, and today they shared this article from The Atlantic about our Family Home Evenings. Wow, I didn't expect that. Cool article...and yes, a strong reminder to get back to my homework (because my major is Marriage and Family....) https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/03/mormon-family-home-evening/556658/
  24. 7 points
    NeuroTypical

    am I right or am i overreacting?

    Hi myquestion and welcome. So you're marrying a Brazilian, who lives in Brazil. They tell me cultural standards can be sort of different in tropical areas where people dress less due to the weather and outdoor lifestyle. How do you know he wouldn't feel comfortable if you were facebook friends with beefy gym hunks who posted their workout pics? Have he specifically said he'd have a problem with that? But bigger than that - you're going to marry someone you have only actually spent five days with face to face? I know that isn't your question, but whoa, that has bad idea written all over it. You don't know this person - you just know his online persona. And that is not the same thing. Even the most uncontrolled serial cheater addict can act nice for 5 days.
  25. 7 points
    Perhaps the more important question is: if shaving were one of the requirements for salvation, would you shave? Or, like the rich young man, would you go away sorrowful, for you have great facial hair?
  26. 7 points
    Vort

    What is a high priest, anyway?

    In ancient times, a "high priest" was simply a holder of the high (or Melchizedek) Priesthood, e.g. Alma 13:9. Later, during the time of the law of Moses, the "high priest" was the Aaronic priest who officiated and led the other Levitical priests. The Book of Mormon appears to extend this usage of "high priest" as the Priesthood holder who had responsibility over the people in an area (e.g. Alma 4:4, 30:20) In modern, post-Restoration usage, a "high priest" is someone ordained to the (modern) office of "high priest". Until now, high priests have met in their own quorum with their same-officed Priesthood brethren. Even today, the high priests quorum still exists -- only it doesn't include the stake's high priests any more, only those with stake-level Priesthood leadership callings (including bishopric members). So what does this all mean? How is it right or reasonable that high priests and elders meet together in an "elders quorum"? Forthwith, you will get Vort's ideas on the topic. When men receive the Priesthood, they receive "all the Priesthood" that the Lord has given to mankind. There is no difference in the "amount" or the "quality" of Priesthood between the newest elder and the President of the Church himself. It's all the exact same Priesthood, and the exact same amount of Priesthood authority (whatever that means). The office of elder is perfectly sufficient to allow a man to enter into exaltation and to bless his family with whatever he is required to bless them with. In that sense, office is irrelevant. But offices exist in the Priesthood for fulfilling certain callings within the kingdom of God. All men serving in Priesthood leadership, except for that leadership within the quorum itself, must hold the office of high priest. This office is really (IMO) sort of an addition to allow an ordering of the kingdom. The Priesthood doesn't change, just the assignment. Similarly, if a man is called to serve as a seventy (or an apostle), he must be ordained to the office of seventy (or apostle). The assignment changes; the Priesthood is one. So what happens when a bishopric member or stake president or seventy or member of the First Presidency who isn't otherwise called as a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles is released? Naturally, they no longer have those extra responsibilities. Their Priesthood office doesn't change, but their Priesthood assignment defaults to the basic: the duties of the office of an elder in Zion. This is surely why the ward Melchizedek Priesthood quorum is called an "elders quorum" instead of, say, a "Melchizedek Priesthood quorum". The duties of elder are basic to all Melchizedek Priesthood service. Those who are not actively serving in stake-level (or area- or general-level) Priesthood leadership callings are serving as elders, so it is only right that the quorum of the ward's Priesthood holders be called the "elders quorum". There is an unfortunate tendency that has been observed in some places where the high priests are considered the "adult Priesthood" and the elders are seen as "trainees". I did not see this very much in my own wards, but I understand it was present in other wards, sometimes vehemently so. This was exacerbated by the idea that if a man reaches middle age without being ordained a high priest, he should be "graduated" to the high priests group. But there might be a presumed deficiency in the guy, because after all, he wasn't really a high priest. When the high priests group sustained a new leadership, he (the older elder) didn't vote. When the high priests quorum held their annual meeting, he was invited to attend and welcomed, but always as something of an outsider. In this sense, I'm really very glad to see the quorum and group distinction done away. To my mind, it seems right and natural that the men of the Priesthood meet as a group, rather than dividing by "rank" -- especially when that "rank" is non-existent, at least in the way the term is usually understood. I look forward to meeting with the brethren of my elders quorum next week and figuring out with them how all of this shakes out.
  27. 7 points
    Just_A_Guy

    NO MORE HOME/VISITING TEACHING!

    I hope we live up to the ministerial ideal the Brethren have set. Organizationally, it seems many institutions see-saw between more centralized control, versus more individual empowerment. I fully expect that today’s announcement reflect the word and will of the Lord for us. I would also expect that the new policy will work well for a while, but that after a few decades the Church membership as a whole will tend to slack off and we’ll be inspired to return to a more regimented, return-and-report system to ensure that the work actually gets done. And back and forth we’ll go until the Lord returns. Much of the pleasure of being on the good ship Zion, involves seeing how the deck crew decides when it’s time to alter course. This is a good time to be alive.
  28. 7 points
    I'm in favor of it too. But calling home teaching, a program given by a prophet of the Lord, Pharisaical is nonsense. Were there Pharisaical applications of it? Sure. The program itself, was not.
  29. 7 points
    I would suggest, unless they are sharing something that relates to the immediate danger of themselves or others and they specifically ask you to keep it to yourself, I would. If they have health problems and ask you not to share it, I would not, even to the RS President. I would instead focus your efforts on perhaps helping the Sister work on her health issues or helping her see the benefits of sharing her issues with the RS Pres. herself, but I wouldn't break that bridge of trust unless there was the aspect of immediate danger. Example, my husband beats me each night, don't tell = I would tell the RS Pres. Example, I have colon cancer, don't tell = I would not tell the RS Pres. Let her be the one to share that. Good job doing your visiting teaching @Sunday21!
  30. 7 points
    NeuroTypical

    The MTC Abuse Story

    There is a way for the church to track 'dirt' on it's members. It's called a "permanent annotation to the membership record". There's a process to make such an annotation, and it involves the bishop and Stake President (and possibly others, it's been a while since I had access to the process). It is used only in cases when a member has committed a serious offence like child sexual abuse or murder or something. It is there, in order to help the church prevent roving predators from moving from ward to ward, grooming and harvesting victims, and then moving on before they get caught. Because there are no shortage of monsters in the form of real friendly good guys, who move into the ward eager to serve, talking to the bishop about how they're good with the youth, and have experience with boy scouts, etc. Once placed on a member's record, it stays unless a member of the first presidency allow it's removal. I am told it stays even for members who are excommunicated or resign, and later are re-baptized. Because again, the world is full of dudes who get excommunicated for raping a child, and then three years later they pop up in another state appearing sincere in their desires to be re-baptized. Thank God our church tracks such things.
  31. 7 points
    mirkwood

    The MTC Abuse Story

    It is bad when it is real. It is bad when it is made up, but the other direction. Some people do not understand that. Whichever one of these two is in the wrong deserves the punishment they are going to get.
  32. 7 points
    @Dgal think of it like physical injury, etc. If someone breaks their leg the bishop or other elders in the church might administer to them by the laying of on hands for healing. They also send them to the hospital to get x-rays and a cast or whatever the doctor recommends. The bishop doesn't set the broken leg, nor should he. If he happens to be trained in first aid he might do a splint or something -- which is entirely irrelevant to his bishoping duties. There is little to no difference in matters of the brain or psyche, except, perhaps, wherein they are tied more closely to sin in many cases. A bishop's counseling doesn't replace or supplant appropriate medical, psychological, and/or scientific means. I say "appropriate", because it can supplant SOME other means in some cases. But it is not the rule, nor would most consider it wise in any way to blow off other legitimate means of dealing with infirmities just because one sees their bishop.
  33. 7 points
    Just_A_Guy

    The MTC Abuse Story

    A lot of these issues are things I’ve sort of put on a shelf for now (I posted about this under another topic yesterday); but I think in the end I’m going to have to adjust my paradigm some on what it means to be an “inspired leader”. These are priesthood holders, not psychics . . . I trust them in setting policy for my ward and in giving me life-advice; but if my local police department is trying to crack a cold murder case my bishop isn’t the person I’d send them to. And we know from Caiaphas’ pronouncement about the need for Jesus’ death, that inspired words can still come from woefully unrighteousness priesthood leaders. As I understand it, ecclesiastical leaders aren’t supposed to administer church discipline unless there is either a confession or very strong third-party evidence. Spiritual manifestations—even if they come—are apparently not enough to trump a member’s due-process rights. (Can you imagine what would have happened if Kate Kelley’s or John Dehlin’s bishops had simply said “Sister/Brother, the Spirit tells me you need some time outside of the Church and that whether you’ll admit it or not, you know very well why”?) The Church seems to implicitly recognize that “discernment” doesn’t usually extend to unmasking secret sinners.
  34. 7 points
    Midwest LDS

    The MTC Abuse Story

    I understand what you are concerned about, and I did not mean to imply that no one else has ever violated his or her position in the church, but the vast majority of Bishops, Seminary teachers, and others are good upright people trying to do the best they can. I am all for more education about sexual violence, so the average person learns more about listening to abuse victims and providing aid and comfort. It makes me sad and horrified in equal measures to think of anyone misusing their positions in the church to harm the innocent, and I fully believe that when discovered they should be turned over to the police and punished as well as being excommunicated. But I do not think that isolated cases of evil, which we will always have in an organization made up of flawed human beings, should destroy the institutions set up for the salvation of souls. The gift of discernment is not always given to the Lord's leaders. The only one who was always able to sense the thoughts of others was Jesus Christ. Sometimes the Lord, while not approving of sin, will allow someone the agency to betray their position (think Judas Isacariot or Baalam). I don't know why He does this, except that we live in a fallen world. But I do trust that this is Jesus Christ's church, and I trust that He will guide His prophets and apostles to solve any major problem faced by the church.
  35. 7 points
    BeccaKirstyn

    The MTC Abuse Story

    Not replying about this specific blog/poster, but I was going through an old journal today that I take notes in and I had written down some notes from when Elder Ballard came and spoke to the YSA stake I am currently in a little over a year ago. He stated, "Be careful in what you involve yourself in, and what voices you take heed to." It struck me, as this new age of social media has evolved into this platform of "speaking out". But are we heeding to the correct voices that will help our testimony? I think it's a slippery slope.
  36. 7 points
    The Folk Prophet

    The MTC Abuse Story

    This particular paragraph has problems. Primarily, it's not true. Not unless you define "community" as LDS only community. In which case...well...yeah...and it should be that way. Why should someone who's turned against the principles of an organization have credibility in that organization? But in the community at large? Not true. The idea that we dismiss people who have turned against the church as having turned against the church is as it should be. The idea that we dismiss people who have turned against the church as worthless as fellow employees, politicians, not to be trusted as policemen or public servants, etc...that is simply not true.
  37. 7 points
    I'll share my ultra conservative view, but I expect I'll tick someone off.... First: "off to high school" is not "kids grown". Second: Stay at home mothering is a matter of faith to me. I don't believe it's exactly the same thing as, say, tithing, for example, but there are similarities. I pay my tithing despite the fact that it would be a good thing for our situation to not pay it ("good thing for our situation" being a relative term depending on perspective -- a principle which applies to stay-at-home mothering as well). It's a matter of faith. As I said, not exactly the same in that tithing is a straight-up commandment and a bigger deal (sort of**), consequence-wise. But the principle of acting on faith is very similar in my mind. I tend to think of mothers working out of the home as a big no-no for myself. Are there exceptions to the rule? Yes. But the rule is a serious one, and the choice, in my mind, should always strongly favor the rule whenever possible. STRONGLY. If a mother "has to" work then she'd better "have to" work. And I mean literally "has to" - as in "must" or else death, prison, homelessness (literally...not just having to get a smaller place or something), etc. **The immediate consequence of not paying tithing is plain. Loss of temple-recommend, etc. However, I believe quite strongly that the general trend of mothers leaving the home for employment is one of the key factors in the destruction of morality in our society. It is a BIG deal to me.
  38. 6 points
    Welcome to the forums @SophJ! Since when did correspondence have to be a scripture verse? No, no. Just tell him about your life- the same you would any other friend.
  39. 6 points
    Grunt

    Missionaries

    It's amazing what the proper mindset will do and how important it is to always be feeding your soul. I think it's a key reason gathering as a congregation and ministering are so important. That isn't to belittle the importance of personal study and prayer, but to point out how important it is that we are supporting each other on this journey. Whenever I fly I take the BoM with me, and this time my issue of Ensign came just as I was leaving so I grabbed that as well. Just reading the magazine is uplifting and changes my attitude. It reminds me how important it is to do the things I often put off.
  40. 6 points
    NeuroTypical

    Worried :(

    Practical answer: Some Mormons will be wonderful about the news, you will probably encounter some awkwardness, and at least one rude jerk. People's reactions here will say a lot about them. Consider this subject as a good way to see into someone's soul through their reaction. Please forgive the ones who fall short of the commandment to love thy neighbor.
  41. 6 points
    For starters: YEAH for you engagement--- that's super exciting!! For seconds: also welcome to the site It is a GREAT thing that you are attracted to your future husband and he to you. Marriage is also a great thing, wherein two people fully give themselves to each other and become one. Now I have a question for you: why have you not gotten married today? What is the reason you are not walking down to the courthouse and saying "I do" right now? Why are you not one completely (legally, financially, spiritually, sexually, etc) right now? Those reasons are the reason you are not one right now, and the reason you should not engage in sexual activities. You two are still two.
  42. 6 points
    Okay, but this is not a sex crime. It's messed up, but I don't think the child should be able to sue. Either way the child was going to have a different biological father. It is the mother that should have rights to sue since she was not provided the correct service she paid for, and the correct donor she requested. Honestly though, while the doctor should probably be penalized for malpractice, if the child doesn't have any health conditions resulting from her genetics, I don't see why the family would be due compensation more than the cost of the services they received inflated to today's monetary valuation. What mother is going to say, "I don't love you anymore since I found out that you are the child of a different person, instead of the one who's bio I liked most"? The parents were wrong to not tell their daughter in the first place. I don't think the child has a valid case, but perhaps the parents would. Don't get me wrong, what the guy did is absolutely wrong, however, it is not the same as a sex crime, and he didn't do anything to the child directly.
  43. 6 points
    Vort

    The MTC Abuse Story

    When I hear many women saying substantially similar things, especially women like zil who have gained my trust, it forces me to reexamine my own beliefs. I do not pretend to have a perfect understanding of such things. But I do know what a false accusation is, and I know full well that they happen (and not uncommonly). If a woman I loved and trusted claimed that she had been raped, I would be out for the blood of her accused rapist. But by the same token, if a man I loved and trusted denied a shaky allegation of rape, I would again be out for the blood of his accuser. And if it's true that rapists often get off with a slap on the wrist or less, it is equally true that a false rape allegation can ruin a man's reputation. No one here has justified the ex-MTC president. Most seem to agree he sounds like a pervert and a creep. But rape is another ballgame altogether, and demanding more proof than an allegation from an untrustworthy source seems obvious.
  44. 6 points
    Madeline Turner

    Concerns about baptism

    That's wonderful to hear! I am not a part of any groups or anything like that. When I say advocate I mean that I am very much against violence and discrimination and the idea that they should be treated lesser than anyone else. I guess the closest thing I'm a part of is that I donate to the It Gets Better project frequently, which is an organization dedicated to preventing suicide in LGBT youth. This has always just been so important to me because if we only helped those who were just like us, it would be a sad world indeed. If anything I will probably put my name on Mormons Building Bridge's volunteer list after baptism
  45. 6 points
    Anddenex

    The MTC Abuse Story

    This is MHO with regards to the quoted post ( @Carborendum - I believe Carb provided a good run down) 1) Anyone who begins with a hashtag "MTCabuse scandal" isn't about open discussion. They are opening with a disingenuous attack towards the Church. In most cases I would stop reading this because it is the Great and Spacious building "pointing the finger of scorn" hoping to "shame" the active partakers of the tree of life. 2) Anyone claiming "privy" information when they do not have all the information themselves is hoping to gather the naive on their side. Personally, a pathetic attempt to gain authority, while I will patiently wait for due process. 3) If the MTC president is found to be guilty, then proper discipline by the Church will occur. On Facebook I have a friend stating that the populace should demand "excommunication" for the MTC President. Naivety and ignorance is all over social media. 4) "This post is about how we are all complicit in letting abuse thrive in our faith community." This is disingenuous and false. I am not complicit, and no one I know is complicit in letting abuse thrive in the "Mormon" faith community. I know that the Church has been doing what it can (Article of Faith #9) in preventing these measures, and sadly, due to human nature (the natural man) these things happen. Someone who disagrees with a person's measures (thoughts and ideas) is not "complicit" to anything. This is just as disingenuous with the whole gun control and now people are claiming the NRA has a "war on children" and they don't care about children's lives. The NRA is not "complicit" with mass murders, nor have they claimed a "war on children." The Church is not complicit with abuse. The members are not complicit with abuse. 5) "It's rooted in our survival after two centuries of distrust from outsiders and it's also morphed into the idea that if we make our church look bad, no one will convert. That sounds trite, but the need to push conversion is also a strong, benevolent belief." False. The Church (and its good standing members) are not more concerned about converts than people being abused. We are concerned about falsehoods being spread as any organization is concerned with. We simply don't like lies. Name a person or entity that does? We are concerned with people who naively believe false witness and then hate you just because you are "Mormon." I am more concerned with the spread of falsehoods that lead to hate crimes, not people who choose not to join the Church. 6) "Mormons need to talk more with one another. We need to believe each other. We need to be able to have someone express their position, empathize with it, and not feel like we have to adopt it as our own." This statement I agree with but this isn't what she truly is expressing. What is being expressed, we want to talk and we want you to believe us, and we want you to change to make us happier. I fully agree with level headed open discussion that isn't agenda driven, sadly this post is agenda driven, and they want their agenda heard and their agenda applied. 7) Overall, the post is "The MTC President is guilty -- it is a "scandal" -- and the sister is 100% correct." Reality, let us actually exercise love and compassion toward both while all things are worked out. How the MTC President is punished, if found guilty, is none of our business (but the Great and Spacious scorns want it to be public). Unless of course, you are OK with the Church publishing "every" disciplinary action of every member involved? If MTC President is not guilty of said crime, he now by so many others will still be seen as guilty and that the Church let a criminal go without punishment (even though innocent).
  46. 6 points
    Most people don't have a psychologist or therapist. Going to an ecclesiastical leader (of any faith) is often their only option, so it's important that church leaders at the local level are trained and understand their role and responsibility to help the member find the right resources. No different than a teacher, or even a boss. Their primary role is not to give counseling in any professional manner, but they can and should counsel people whom they attend to, supervise, whatever.
  47. 6 points
    Vort

    Relevation & Inspiration...MTC abuse

    The feminist narrative would have us believe that this (assuming it happened that way) occurred because Men Do Not Believe Women. But it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to come up with other scenarios. Does the woman have a history of telling stories? Does she rave about other topics on a consistent basis? Has she accused other men in her ward of evil doings, men who have no other reason for suspicion over them besides her accusations? I'm uncomfortable writing this as it will certainly be seen by some as a defense of the accused. It is no such thing. It is a defense of rational thought and forbearance, and against ugly feminist ideology that paints Men as abusers and Women as victims. Bishop's own words seem to lend credence to the idea that he was far less than an ideal presiding authority, and that he engaged in some sort of sexually exploitative, perhaps even abusive, activities. But from the small amount I've read, the accuser comes off as unreliable, accusing Bishop first of fondling, later upgraded to full-on forcible rape. If Bishop sounds like someone with regrets for badly abusing his Church leadership position, the accuser sounds like someone whose word not be immediately accepted at face value.
  48. 6 points
    estradling75

    The MTC Abuse Story

    Some times we see what we wish to see... So I issue you a challenge. For every case were you hear of a MTC president abusing his position find the name of 30 MTC Presidents that did not. For every Bishop who does find 100 that did not, for teacher of youth find a thousand... etc... I think you get the idea. I guarantee that they exist, the only hard part is the simple fact that no one cares when they are not accused of being abusive. You only hear about the cases that they mess up because that is what sells. To me this simple fact means that there is not an organizational "problem." But rather this is the problem the church has been trying to counter since its inception... aka an individuals tendency to sin and not follow Christ. And is a problem that can't not be eliminated and still retain Agency
  49. 6 points
    anatess2

    Just the good things

    What I miss most from the Catholic Church is that grand majesty of the traditions. Like the simple act of genuflecting when crossing the altar. As a new convert to LDS, the ward and stake buildings and even the sacrament meetings seem more casual in comparison. But then I entered the temple and... whoa.
  50. 6 points
    Vort

    Asked not to wear pants to church

    "Feelings" is an imprecise word for the influence of the Holy Spirit. "Revelation" is the appropriate term; but since the vast majority of human beings have not consciously experienced receiving divine revelation, other words must be used. Some (including the Prophet Joseph Smith) have used the term "pure intelligence" to characterize revelation from God. "Feeling", though a very general and imprecise word, is also often used. This is because revelation inspires feelings in us, so feeling calmness and a loving presence is a frequent hallmark of revelation. I believe that the feelings themselves are not the revelation (usually), but are a common and easily recognized accompaniment of the revelation. Personally, while I do associate divine revelation with calmness and a happiness and lightness of heart, I associate it at least as much with sharp clarity of thought and with deeply impressed ideas. When I receive revelation, I feel, I don't know, smarter than at other times. Not in the sense of feeling superior to others -- quite the opposite -- but in the sense that my mind is clear and I perceive sharply and with high relief the relationship between various elements, sometimes even in a way that I find hard to describe in words because I don't really know the right words to use.