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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.
    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).

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  1. 9 points
    Grunt

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    That same-sex couples would be sealed in the temple. That isn't just a "small step" in doctrine. How can you be Mormon and wish the church to move away from God?
  2. 9 points
    1.) I'm finding it annoying when women are still treated as the 'lesser sex' in today's world and in the church . In the USA and in the LDS Church worldwide, they're not. 2.) Also on the same note, how come there aren't as many women Sunday school presidents or councillors etc, Sunday School Peesidencies are the responsibility of the Priesthood in the same manner that Gospel teaching is the responsibility of Fathers in the family. 3.) likewise men on primary presidencies, The rearing of children are the primary responsibility of women in the same manner that the rearing of children are the primary responsibility of Mothers in the family. 4.) what about 'non practicing' Temple recommend holding gay men teaching, or being on a primary presidency or auxiliaries ? Or non practicing gay women in auxiliary presidencies ? Mixed presidencies in non priesthood callings . Male Presidencies - Elders Quorom, Young Men, Sunday School Female Presidencies - Relief Society, Young Women, Primary Gay men are males, Gay women are females in the Church. They are not barred from callings. 5.). Also why do sisters still have to 'vail their faces' in a certain part of an ordinance in the Temple I always feel it very discriminating towards women when that happens. If you're looking for discrimination, you will find it everywhere including places where it doesn't exist.. I suggest you go through the temple again paying close attention to the symbolisms and what they symbolize. If you're not sure about a certain symbol, like the veil, you can ask any of the temple workers to explain it to you.
  3. 8 points
    I see many of the issues marriages have on this forum involve pornography. A question was asked in another thread about how pornography can exist in other relationships and not have a negative impact. The answer, really, is many (most?) people don't view pornography and masturbation the way LDS do, at least on the male side. Pornography is normal for many males. It starts at a young age behind the garage decades ago with a SEARS catalog looking at underwear advertisements with your friends. It progresses from there. Heck, even television alludes to sex and pornography or features actors with less than modest clothing. It's just normal, culturally. The same applies to masturbation. It starts as a toddler. Without someone telling you "this is bad, don't do this", you grow up thinking it's normal. After all, it is "your" equipment. I still haven't found anything in the church that says masturbation is bad (but I'm sure I'm about to be bombarded with it). It has been my experience that men and women view sex differently. There is a physical and emotional aspect to sex and many men separate the two. I can sit across the room with my wife, make eye contact, and have that emotional response. It's an intimacy that can manifest anywhere, including sex. Likewise, I could have sex and NOT feel that intimacy. If I viewed porn or was unfaithful to my spouse, it wouldn't change the way I feel about her or affect my intimacy. What I feel it comes down to is respect and an understanding of the family unit. I remain faithful to my wife for MANY reasons (beyond the fact that nobody else would have me). I love her. I respect her. I'm committed to my family. Those three things alone are probably what causes me to not even desire another woman. I could probably list a million other reasons. Society and culture are changing, though. It's acceptable now or even encouraged, to put yourself first. People are no longer fulfilled by family because they're taught to pursue more. I believe people confuse fantasy with reality. They view pornography or television where the illicit affair is romantic and want it in their life. They want the fantasy to be real and they don't even realize they are pursuing it. I could never have sex with my wife again and be just as committed to her years from now as I am today, with zero possibility that I would stray from our marriage. None of that has anything to do with God, the church, or the Law of Chastity. It has to do with character, integrity, and being a man.
  4. 8 points
    LiterateParakeet

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    I saw some of the talks, but not all...not this one. So perhaps I shouldn't comment, but I will anyway. Remember that the Proclamation on the Family is for the whole world . . . And Elder Oaks did give a great talk about divorce a few years ago. Also remember that one of the roles of the Prophet and the Twelve is to proclaim the gospel to all the world. The family, as we know teach it should be, is on the "endangered list" if you will. I think a talk about the Proclamation includes: Law of Chastity, AND Divorce just by the nature of being issues that affect the family. Does that help at all?
  5. 8 points
    Actual woman here. I find it annoying when people try to tell me I have to be just like a man in order to be not be the "lesser sex".
  6. 7 points
    Whatever you decide, please know you sound like an amazing wife who has shown superhuman strength through this very difficult trial. The fact that you have managed to hang in there through not only a bad pornography addiction but also multiple instances of adultery speaks volumes about your character and capacity to show Christ-like love in very difficult circumstances.
  7. 7 points
    Grunt

    New investigators + order of books

    I think this post was made for me. Disclaimer: I’m not LDS. First, go to church. They love visitors. Stay for the whole thing. Meet the missionaries. Ask questions. The pace will seem fast. You may seem rushed. However, Mormons take “no” very easily. It’s your life, your pace. Don’t hinder your own investigation, but set your own pace. Download the LDS library app if you can. I listened to the Book of Mormon then used the app to read it and cross reference it with other scripture. It helped me immensely. You can get involved with the church without being a member. I attend service projects and the like. Sometimes they forget I’m not LDS. I suggest you get involved. LDS isn’t just a religion on Sunday, it’s a life towards God. I have a thread here about my journey.
  8. 7 points
    zil

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    Feel free to read the entire document, which clearly answers your question.
  9. 7 points
    estradling75

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    When I get confused by something the scriptures say, or the apostles, or the church, or God I do not assume it is because they are lying or being disingenuous. Because I have Faith in Christ and faith that he has called his leaders and is guiding them and his church. Thus all the messages are going to be in harmony even if I struggle with it. Like the whole don't kill/utterly destroy example I gave earlier. Of course the world changing the definitions and terms doesn't help matter but that is not on the Church or God. So lets take an -ism, Sexism for example. The world uses it in many ways and is trying to remove any differences between the sexes, but unless they are totally rabid they will know that some sexual discrimination is necessary and good. For example if your are a guy you do not want your doctor to try to give you a pap smear, if you are a girl you do not want your doctor to try to check your prostate. (To be fair even if you are the right sex you probably do not want those thing but that is a tangent)... When this is pointed out all most everyone (who is not beyond reason) will refine their definition to someone acting out of Pride, or Hate or Fear to persecute someone else. No one wants to be told they are inferior because of their sex, no one wants to be attacked and hurt because of their sex. This holds true to all the other -isms too. Their are some legit differences based on Race and Nationality, but most of the time they are not relevant and the related -ism is based on Pride, Hate or Fear. The simple fact is that the Lord has always condemn Pride, Hate, and Fear (With very few Godly exceptions.) So lets break this down on the Churches actions and responses. When the church had the priesthood ban it was based on what was at the time a legitimate understanding of the differences of the Races. It was by racist in the sense that it made a difference based on race. However the priesthood ban did not give anyone a free pass to act based on Pride, or Hate or Fear toward different races which is racism in the most commonly understood sense. Although being flawed mortals some do anyways. When the church leaders talk about being subject to laws, and being actively engaged in the political, and social activities of the nation the members are in. It of course is going to mean different things in different countries. It is nationalist in the sense that it is different based on nations . The USA is not the same and England, which is not the same as New Zealand, which is not the same a Brazil, which is not the same as Canada, etc.. The church wants the saints in those countries (and all the others) to be active in the political life of their nation. But that does not give the members ad free pass to act based on Pride, or Hate or Fear toward different nationalities which is nationalism in the most commonly understood sense. Although being flawed mortals some do anyways. When the church talks about men and women (say the proclamation of the Family or other things) they acknowledge different roles and functions based on sex. This is sexism in the sense that they are differences based on sex. Men and Women have different Roles in the church. But this does not give its members a free passed to act based on Pride, or Hate or Fear toward members of the different sex which is sexism in its most commonly understood sense. Although being flawed mortals some do anyways. When Elder Ballard condemned sexism, racism, nationalism, etc. a member could either see the harmony of the message that the Church has always had regarding acting on Pride, Hate and Fear no matter what -ism they might hide behind. Or they can accept the lie the world is trying to shove down our throats that there is no difference, and demand that Elder Ballard is wrong or that the rest of the church is wrong. I am sure everyone here can judge between those two options and decide which one is based on and strengthens faith and which one can weaken faith and can lead to a falling away.
  10. 7 points
    zil

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    Given that there are members all over the place who think "it's only a matter of time" before the Church allows same-sex couples to be sealed in the temple, I'd say we very much need it. If the world is fighting against families, the Church must defend them, and it must start with the membership.
  11. 7 points
    Except its statistically garbage.
  12. 7 points
    We all love how sweet you are @a mustard seed. It's no problem at all. Be sure to be patient with yourself too.
  13. 7 points
    I'm actually sympathetic to all of the Biblical issues you cite. But I think we have some insights into the compilation of the Book of Mormon that we don't necessarily have with the Bible. The Book of Mormon in its entirety is vouched for by Moroni, who is a real person (as seen and interacted with by Joseph Smith) and who (with Mormon) repeatedly represents within the text itself that the corpus of the book they have assembled is (by their definition of the term) a true history. We tend to ascribe a very high degree of inspiration to that assembly/compilation process. That doesn't mean the Book of Mormon may not have problems under modern historiographical standards, like--say--the lack of a balanced political perspective from the Lamanites, for example; or the possibility that many of the great sermons weren't recorded contemporaneously and are therefore later reconstructions. But fundamentally, the Book of Mormon represents itself as a history. By contrast, we know very little about who assembled the Bible (particularly the Old Testament); and the various books of the Bible have not been carefully selected and harmonized and synthesized into a greater whole, the way most of the BoM has. We have no overarching editor assuring us of the historicity of each and every book and anecdote therein--that Satan and God really placed a wager over Job's faithfulness; or that some of the details of Jonah were not merely intended as near-eastern satire; or that the creation accounts are primarily supposed to explain the "how" and "when" rather than the "who", the "what" and the "why". We have no real editorial assurance that any particular one of the books in the Bible is even, in fact, supposed to be there; or that the modern version of any particular book perfectly mirrors its original autograph. In fact, quite the opposite is the case on both scores--we know some books are in there that shouldn't be; we know some books that should be in there are gone; and we know that some of the text has been tampered with to a greater or lesser degree. The books within the Bible are, moreover, hard to lump together and approach in the same way. They are of very different genres--Kings and Chronicles being fairly reliably as history; Isaiah being a pretty decent descriptor of God's words to a specific culture at a specific time; Proverbs being an example of near-eastern "wisdom literature" of a piece with comparable works from Assyria and Babylon; and Song of Solomon being more-or-less a glorified dime-store romance novel. You can't approach any two Bible books in exactly the same way, any more than you can approach a "Harry Potter" book as a scientific treatise--every time you move on from one book to the next, you have to re-evaluate your paradigm and reconsider what that particular book is and isn't supposed to be. We are used to giving the Bible and the Book of Mormon rough equivalency. And so they are, in spiritual value; but that doesn't mean you read them through identical lenses. They are in fact very, very different works.
  14. 6 points
    zil

    New investigators + order of books

    https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/62363-missionaries/ Believe it or not, this is the same thing life-long members feel. It's a growing / learning process that lasts your whole life, not a destination - a lifestyle of constant self-improvement.
  15. 6 points
    prisonchaplain

    Next Apostle?

    I do love this aspect of LDS church life--that leaders, and indeed all callings, are truly believed to initiate with the prompting of the Holy Spirit. If I were to train bishops, and other decision-makers in your faith, I'd remind them of the beauty of this belief, and encourage them to really take time to hear and discern what the Spirit is saying.
  16. 6 points
    NeuroTypical

    Law of Chastity

    Honestly, going through with your plan to get married now and then have lots and lots and lots of covenental sacred sex while you wait a year to go to the temple, sounds like a pretty good plan. Work through your repentance process with the bishop, be patient and diligent in your discipleship, go forth and sin no more, and things should go well.
  17. 6 points
    Vort

    Gentle Parenting

    Sounds good. At best, this is a typical redirection strategy. A darker view would paint this as open manipulation. Because in fact, the child is required to brush his teeth and put on his pajamas (or pyjamas, or pwjamas, or pγjamas, or generally p[X]jamas where [X] is replaced with the vowel, semivowel, consonant, or other letter, symbol, rune, or emoji of your preference). The "choice" you are offering is trivial, and amounts to tricking the child into thinking he's doing things of his own volition. Why not just be honest and say, as the parent, "Do these things"? Sounds good. To what end? Why must a child's emotions be acknowledged? Children are not short adults. They are savages. The purpose of parenting is primarily to convert these beautiful little savages into functional people capable of interacting in society. Sounds good. I have no problem with this. Agreed. I agree, but only with great reluctance. This is a consequence of the "boundaries" movement of the last two generations, which has some reasonable points but is defective in that one of the ways we help civilize our precious savages is by teaching them the correct forms of social expressions of affection. And yes, that might well mean giving Uncle Ray a hug, even though you barely know him and he hasn't shaved. Hippy crap. Of course bad behavior is evidence of an unmet "need", where the "need" can be (and often is) as trivial or selfish as they want to do something they shouldn't or don't want to do something they should. Honestly, this is entirely self-evident to any honest adult with an IQ exceeding 75, and should not need to be explained. A very useful idea. So my takeaway from this ten-point list is that it's a mixture of dead obvious things and stupid or even harmful crap, with perhaps an actual gem of insight thrown in at some point.
  18. 6 points
    False equivalency. I appreciate your metaphor, but even in the metaphor, the assignment of blame is greatly unbalanced. To say that "both are idiots" suggests that they are equally guilty. They are not, either in your example or in the real-life equivalent. Trump is a buffoon and an embarrassment. He is still ten times better as President than Hillary Clinton would have been.
  19. 6 points
    Let me start first with what may be the major philosophical difference between us on this issue. I am very open to—maybe even resigned to—the possibility that there isn’t a solution. Not a 100% one. Probably not even a 50% one, and maybe not even a 25% or a 10% one. To some degree, we’re trying to square a circle. A major purpose for the Second Amendment is that the government must be held in check by its fear that an armed populace may do terrible things. The inevitable corollary to that is that sometimes the armed populace will do terrible things. We accept this because we believe that over time, the dangers an unopposed government poses to decent citizens exceeds the dangers that other citizens post to that same decent citizen. I’m generally OK whittling around the edges of that dynamic, weighing cost-benefits analyses on a case-by-case basis—highly regulating automatic weapons, high explosives, that sort of thing. But I also recognize that progressives and totalitarians work on an incrementalist strategy; so that overarching goal of making sure my government remains scared of me will always be a big factor in as I look at these decisions. So: on silencers, I don’t see a major safety benefit to forcing gunshots to be over 130 decibels rather than 100 or 110 decibels. On magazine sizes—my understanding is that once you get above about 30-50 rounds, those are kind of unwieldy anyways; so for myself—OK, I’m probably fine with a 50 round cap. But I understand it can take multiple rounds to bring down a guy strung out on drugs; so between that and the possibility of bad aim under stress—I don’t want to be confined to just 7 or 10 rounds or whatever the number du jour is. And magazine size is largely irrelevant in scenarios like Las Vegas, where cops apparently took 45 minutes to find and get to the sniper’s nest and another 20 minutes after that before they decided to maybe—you know—go on in and start shooting back at this dirtbag. Mental health: I think it’s *way* more complex than simply throwing money at it. This is not intended as a slap at anyone with mental health challenges; but I don’t think mental health treatment, as an industry, is at a point where I would feel comfortable relying on a therapist saying “that guy’s cured, he can have guns now.” So it becomes a matter of screening for mental illness and then putting folks on a permanent blacklist. I can see some merits in that; but it opens new cans of worms. Such a blacklist will not be helpful in incentivizing additional people to submit to screenings. Moreover, most of the mentally ill I’ve worked with, don’t think there’s anything wrong with them and don’t understand why the court is making them do all these tests—it’s not a matter of money, it’s a matter of will. And finally, I don’t trust the politicization of the mental health industry. I fully expect that within my lifetime there will be serious efforts to pathologize religious belief as well as traditional conservative world views. So no, the threat of mass shootings doesn’t drive me into the arms of otherwise-odious government-run health care regimes. You talk of low-gun populations in Europe and the northern US. To that I would suggest that what those nations enjoy is homogeneity. They do not have large 20-50% of their population who have spent the last fifty years hearing about how it’s impossible for them to get ahead in life because the other 80-50% of their populations have been screwing them over. When you do see those sorts of enclaves in the North—in Chicago, in Detroit, in Philadelphia, in Oakland, in Cleveland—you see all sorts of violence in spite of the most stringent gun laws; and where you see such divided diversity increasing in London, in Paris, in Stockholm; you see violence on the rise as well; with the law-abiding citizenry largely unprepared to defend themselves. That’s why a shared sense of history and patriotism and some lowest-common denominator of religion/ethics is so important in spite of racial and ethnic differences; and when that unity erodes, we retreat back into our herds and start trying to hurt the guys who appear to threaten our tribe.
  20. 6 points
    Grunt

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    I thought this was the best talk of the day, though I didn't see them all..
  21. 6 points
    I am the only member in my family and my ward is quite small so I don’t have many people that I can discuss gospel topics with. I was looking forward to conference one year and thinking how nice the brethren seem to be. I am used to, in my work, meeting charismatic people and finding out, once you meet their spouses and children, to realizing that many successful people are far better employees than they are family members. I feel for the spouses of a lot of many successful people. I often feel the pain of conscience when work eats up time of colleagues who really owe a big debt to their families and, if they had any sense, should really say, No and spend more time with their families. More than that, I often interact with people who are charming in their professional lives but who misbehave as spouses and parents. The spouses and kids bear the scars. Successful men and women often have inappropriate sides that come out when you work long hours with them. I said a small prayer of sympathy for the wives and families of general authorities who I imagined gritting their teeth through some of the conference talks and wishing that the family patriarch was the person that they represented themselves as being. i felt a strong prompting and a quiet voice that said, The men who run my church are good fathers and husbands. If this were not the case, I would not have chosen them. I have many to chose from. i find this message to be of great comfort. I know that the brethren are the people that they appear to be.
  22. 6 points
    Thank you, all of you. I realized tonight I have been on this site for nearly 8 years. I have probably posted most of the same stuff as it regurgitated itself in my life, the same old doubts and fears and hangups. But through all of that, you guys have been here, providing insight and being a great sounding board. I was very blessed tonight to feel the spirit as I went back through my posts and saw where I have come from. Even though in some ways I haven't made much headway, I can see where I have, and it REALLY helped me get my spiritual footing. I am reminded of Elder Clayton's talk from this April about how sometimes the small and simple things can help in completely unrelated ways. I feel that has happened tonight. I have been struggling with the nature of God (either as our creator or our father) and have been having a VERY hard time waffling if I should go through the RCIA program in the Catholic Church. Reading through my posts and seeing my progress has really helped, "settle my stomach" for lack of a better word. I still have the two ideas of God floating about in my brain, but the upheaval has died down. Tender mercies of the Lord I think. With all that in mind, I just wanted to come to the forum and thank everyone for being there and being an aid to me, sometimes I think between FAIR and here, that's 75% of what helps me keep it together. Anyway, have a good night everyone (I should have been to bed 4 hours ago, but...)
  23. 6 points
    So many different issues, all rolled into one—and it seems like everyone’s a little wrong on this. —Trump, as a government official, needs to stay the heck out of private-sector decisions regarding hiring and firing. Also, this is a cynical move on his part that advances his short term political interests but divides the country as a whole. —Progressives: if we can’t unite around respect for the flag and the anthem, there’s very little left holding us together as a nation and Balkanization isn’t far behind. You guys are the ones who want the federal government to control everything and bring intransigent local populations into line; so I would think you’d quit undermining people’s loyalty to the federal government. (And yes, kiddies, that’s what you’re doing. Trump’s divisiveness is bringing us closer to civil war; but you guys are taking the bait in spectacular fashion.) —Conservatives: Patriotism is great; but I was unaware that we were ever really into enforced ritualistic worship of Big Brother; and last time I checked (I think it was about a month ago) we were adamantly defending people’s right to air their political views in the workplace without suffering government-greenlit retribution. Also: guys, we don’t have to step in every turd the Orange Orangutan-In-Chief leaves on the field, you know? —NFL: The league as a whole are cowards; muddying the waters with their attempts to split the difference (we’ll kneel. Not during the anthem, but before. Or maybe during. And then we’ll stand and link arms in support of Kapernik and his donations to cop-killers—er, no, we’re just supporting him as a teammate and a brother—er, actually, BLM has a point—er, no; really we just hate Trump. We love America too much to stand up for it. Or something.) —Civil libertarians: yeah, any time you have armed police officers patrolling amongst the citizenry there are going to be abuses. That’s human nature, and it needs to be dealt with. But police departments are local entities, and you’re libertarians—why are you demanding a national response here? —BLM: hoo, boy; where do I even begin with you guys? Look, I was there when you started—with Trayvon Martin, who was shot by George Zimmerman after beating Zimmerman to an inch of his life for having dared to follow him; and Michael Brown, who knocked over a convenience store and then attacked the cop who saw him and figured he matched the radioed description of the perp (which made sense since—you know—Brown WAS the perp). Those shootings, tragic as they were, were justified incidents of self-defense; and your refusal to acknowledge as much makes it really hard not to conclude that what you *really* believe, is that black people should be able to rob and brutalize white people with impunity. We’ve seen the stats of white-on-black violence versus black-on-white violence; and we wonder why we’re supposed to just take it quietly and then be hectored about our “racism” for good measure. We’re sick and tired of seeing a dysfunctional subculture rife with violence, drug use, unwed parenthood, demands for cultural separatism, and generalized contempt for education and authority and “acting white”—and rather than looking inwards to figure out how it can adapt to the (aspirationally, at least) color-blind, market-based meritocracy like modern America, its leaders rail against “white people” and bloviate on about “structural racism” and “safe spaces” (which of course, inevitably translates into “give us money. Lots and lots and lots of money.”). So, yeah. A plague o’er all your houses, and get off my lawn.
  24. 6 points
    I'm confused of what kind of responses you are looking for. Are you looking for an answer to this question? Because you've made it clear that it doesn't really matter what the answer is. You, as you said, will still "choose your fiancé over God every time". So does any response/answer to your question actually matter? I don't think so. So beyond that, the next thing I can think of is are you looking for validation for your feelings/reasons? I can promise you that you won't find that here. If you peruse any other "advice" seeking column about scenarios looking for validation for their sin-like decisions, you will see that the members here will not give you a validating "perspective". They will give you what the doctrine of the Church says, and why they find it important. Since you've made it very clear that you would "choose your fiancé over God every time", I don't know what other information you could possibly be looking for on a mormon forum, outside of validation for your decisions. At the end of the day it is your life, your choices. Because God gave you the agency to do that in this Earth life. Does that agency come without consequence? Absolutely not. But it does come with a full, free rein to do whatever you'd like. So no one is going to stop you from making your own choices--not even God himself. He won't stop you from choosing your fiancé over Him. Because that's how important you are to Him. Your ability to decide for yourself is something He will never take away from you. So fair warning to whatever other responses you get.
  25. 6 points
    Dillon

    Looking for advice, not judgement

    Ha,, this is the new and improved Dillon. I realized I wasnt being fair and upsetting everyone, women mostly, with my remarks judging a few women's actions on all women, it wasnt fair. I dont do that in my everyday life so I dont want to do it here. I think there are some good LDS women in here like yourself and I can appreciate that and I do, nothing better than a loyal, humble, faithful LDS woman, the world needs more of you guys.
  26. 6 points
    Just_A_Guy

    Is there a way past this?

    One thought: There’s a difference between doubt and uncertainty. We are told in scripture that faith and doubt cannot really coexist; whereas faith and uncertainty coexist quite a lot. And I suspect that’s OK. A big part of my job is getting in people’s faces and showing that they don’t really “know” what they thought they knew; and (for now!) I’ve made peace with the fact that for all my beliefs and conclusions I, too, “know” relatively little about pretty much any aspect of my life. (Just yesterday I spent four hours researching a point of law I thought was pretty straightforward; and at the end of it I realized that a) the law on that point is pretty nebulous, and b) literally dozens of attorneys practicing in the same field as myself (and several judges) have been getting the point wrong for years.) There’s *always* going to be more information out there; some of which may necessitate some degree of paradigm shift—and openly acknowledging that will leave a lot of uncertainty in one’s life that may not completely resolve. For me, this seems to be the case with religion as well. When we talk about the truth claims of the LDS Church, I’m not sure I could honestly say I believe them any more deeply now than I did ten years ago (although, I hasten to add, I DO believe them). But I am sure that, for all my flaws, I’m a better person now than I was ten years ago; and that transformation/refinement is largely due to my attempts to apply the Gospel’s precepts into my life. That’s the core of my testimony at this point in my life—that while yes, the Gospel makes sense to me most of the time; the fundamental thing is that it works.
  27. 6 points
    Grunt

    Missionaries

    It's been an odd ride. For the last two weeks I haven't done much. I missed church last week because I was sick. I was gone all week so the missionaries haven't been around. Because it's been two weeks since I've been active in the church, I find myself wondering if I really want to go today because I have so much work to catch up on before work tomorrow. The pigs went to market, I have a ton of fencing to put up for the animals, I have 50 chickens I stuffed in a half-built chicken tractor in my garage because they out-grew the brooder and if they aren't gone soon I'll be divorced, I haven't opened my bee hives in 3 weeks and I have 100 pounds of honey I need to process. It's crazy here in the fall. But that isn't what you asked for..... I think when you ask what teachings and practices I feel comfortable with you mean what I accept? I'm not particularly comfortable with any of them because I don't understand "why". However, I reached a point where I've accepted that I don't need to understand why, I just need to accept that they are. Word of Wisdom confuses me at times, but honestly, it wouldn't if the internet didn't exist. I've seen Mormons condemn each other for eating meat in winter, drinking caffeinated beverages, how they tithe, etc. I've never seen any of that in my ward. Perhaps they do it while I'm not around, but I doubt it. I think it's just easier to be superior online. I haven't been living Word of Wisdom, but I will. I stopped buying coffee and when it's gone, it's gone. I VERY rarely drink, and I started drinking a beer a day to use up the beer in the fridge so when that's gone, it's gone. It's a psychological thing for me. I can't just dump it out. Then my wife came home with a 6 pack, which I honestly don't think she's EVER done in years of marriage. She said she saw I was drinking more so she didn't want me to run out. I suppose I should have explained my intent to her. Anyway, when It's gone I'll follow the WoW. It would have been gone by now if I'd been home this month. Now I have to decipher that whole "meat in the winter" stuff. I raise most of my own meat, so we eat it a lot. Most people don't seem to follow it, which confuses me more. Is there follow-up revelation? Do we pick and choose? I've had moments where I was sure I felt the spirit, but as time passes I wonder if I really did. I'm not sure I would recognize the typical experience unless it was a big one. I think you have to be in the correct state to recognize the daily hand of God in your life. I also believe people confuse the hand of God with things that just happen sometimes. I've had clarity that has allowed me to understand some of the things I was struggling with, or at least be at peace with them even if I still didn't understand. I attend everything I'm available for. I go to church, meet with the missionaries, attend service projects. I could, and should, be better at reading Scripture and praying. I just don't think about praying. I haven't done it for most of my life. I'm also extremely busy, so I don't sit and read Scripture. I don't think about it, either. I also look at it as "daunting" at times. I should probably just commit to reading a verse or two a night and start there, even though it will take 4 lifetimes to finish at that rate. I haven't spoken to the "online" missionaries in awhile, which makes a difference. I enjoyed talking things through with the ladies. I don't "know" the church to be true. I don't know if I ever will. That said, I don't know if I really need to, personally. I struggle with religion in general. Somedays I'm convinced the BoM is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet, other days I question the existence of God at all. It all depends on whether my analytical brain or emotional brain is in charge that day, I guess. I LIKE the idea of God, so on my days of less faith, I still follow Him. Do I need to know it all to be true? That is where I am right now in my personal exploration. I love the church. I love the people. I have doubts about some aspects, but those doubts aren't different than how I feel about ANY religion. The difference is Mormonism seems to REQUIRE a belief that the church is true to be a Mormon. I can question aspects of faith and still be a Baptist or Catholic, but if I can't answer positively that I KNOW JS to be a prophet and the BoM to be true, it seems I can't (or shouldn't) be a Mormon. Another obstacle is my family. I can't come home one day and say "hey, I'm a Mormon". We've gone from years of NEVER mentioning God or religion to church every Sunday, prayer at meals, lessons with missionaries and others, and the occasional scripture family time. I've received zero push-back from my bride and she's been a willing participant since our "discussion". She talks to the ladies more than I do the guys and signs up to feed the missionaries. She talks to online missionaries from time to time, but that's it. This doesn't surprise or bother me because it just isn't her personality. I don't see her EVER being one to sit and read scripture or watch a General Conference, even if she's a model Mormon, unless it was because she was invited over to do it or it was a social setting. That just isn't her. That said, Mormonism is a culture. A lifestyle. Whether or not my family was willing to join may not be relevant to MY decision, but my decision certainly affects the family. Because of that, even if they DID allow me to be baptized with my less than solid faith I wouldn't do it until they were solidly aware, and supportive of, the commitments I would be making. I don't think that would be an issue and my family would be supportive even if I just came home and announced it one day, but I want to make sure they are acclimated. This is really an issue for ME, not her, as she is a very devoted and supportive wife. Because of that, it is important for me to not take advantage of it. So there you have it. A far too long update that probably is just a rambling collection of thoughts and doesn't tell you a thing. I'm not sure what you, or anyone, could do to "help". You folks are the experts and I typically do all that you suggest.
  28. 6 points
    >,< You and @skippy740 called it. He had intended to call me as an FHE something or nother but with my schedule, it kind of makes things difficult. So, he called me as the ward indexer instead. I am relieved and a bit excited to get started. @Grunt The anxiety has very little to do with the bishop, so, please don't take my reactions as being indicative of members reactions as a whole towards their bishops. I fact, it is because I have been so close with my branch presidents/bishops in the past that I am feeling so anxious right now. I've had a conversation with this bishop once before and then I stopped coming to church frequently. The last time I stopped attending church, it was by choice and I went inactive for 8 years. He probably has no idea about my history but I was anxious about everybody thinking this was "Falling Away II" or something. Because it makes me sad to have to work on Sundays at all, and missing church on top of it? I didn't want this man whom doesn't know me very well to assume that I didn't care or wasn't trying. And it was my own stress and expectations that led me to be so anxious about this "vague meeting" with the Bishop. Not him nor his station. The topic of the thread too was indicative of my stress about "I'm not doing what I am supposed to be doing right now and everybody will assume it's because I'm being deliberately bad!!! Oh no!!!" insecurities. My bishop is such a loving and kind man and I could see it in his face as he deliberated right in front of me what he could give me to do. Because he loves me and cares about me and doesn't want to lose me. He wants me to feel included and connected and I just truly appreciate him being a man worthy of inspiration from the Spirit like that. Thak you all for the encouragement and being patient with me, lol.
  29. 6 points
    Interesting. That seems like an odd relationship in a religion to me. The Bishop cares about you. He's there to help you in any way he can. Come to think of it, I don't particularly worry about any mortal. Maybe I'm the odd one.
  30. 6 points
    Grunt

    Missionaries

    Not yet. I will relish the look on their faces when someone told them I was Mormon (even though I'm not, really). It's like talking bad about your boss then realizing he's behind you. I didn't offer a defense because I'm not qualified, nor did I see the point. I simply said my experiences and teachings weren't the same and answered any questions they had that I was able to. What the heck do I know? I can't even answer my own questions.
  31. 5 points
    The definition of addiction is something that affects the ability to perform major life functions. Many if not most addictions power lies in escapism... (For a brief period of time they feel better about themselves) A guy who comes home and drinks a beer or watches porn to unwind and is in an environment where that is considered normal and acceptable.. Can maintain that for a long time. A guy who knows it's wrong will after the feel good "High" will crash hard into guilt and shame... This is creates a very powerful feedback loop as more often and Higher "Highs" become necessary to momentarily forget the guilt and shame. The options are to "normalize" the behavior as the world teaches.. or "stop" the behavior as the church teaches. Both can work, but only one helps you become more Christ-like
  32. 5 points
    Sorry, I personally feel this is a load of hooey. A man might SAY that, but it's deflection. The only person to blame for bad behavior is shaving the face he sees in the mirror every morning. MadMaddy, Pornography is a problem. He's your husband and you work through it. Infidelity is a breach of marriage and I wouldn't expect any woman to put up with it. It isn't pornography, it's a total lack of respect for your spouse. You sound like a strong woman and I give you a ton of credit. I wish I had some advice to give you.
  33. 5 points
    This is false. You can be the best wife in the world and your husband can still become a pornography or sex addict. Look at Richard R. Lyman and Relief Society President Amy Brown, for example. The reason your husband is addicted to pornography is because he made the choice to use pornography. It is ENTIRELY his own fault. Many men, some on this forum, have sexless or even loveless marriages and somehow manage to not become pornography addicts. The buck stops with him. The downside is you may not be able to "fix" this. Change has to come from within your husband. But it is NOT your fault that he chose to indulge in such wickedness.
  34. 5 points
    Vort

    Is Handbook 1 secret?

    If Handbook 1 is provided to me in my calling, I will happily make use of it. If Handbook 1 is not provided to me in my calling, then I will not seek it out through other, unapproved sources, any more than I would seek out an unauthorized portrayal of the endowment ceremony. Perhaps that example is a tad extreme, but I believe the underlying thought process is the same in both cases. I will receive the things of God from God's own hand or that of his authorized servant, or I will not receive it. Indeed, there is no other way to receive the things of God.
  35. 5 points
    Vort

    Is Handbook 1 secret?

    My opinion: Handbook 1 contains instruction on how to administer in the Church. The contents do not apply to the membership in general, just to the leadership. There is not really anything "secret" in it. But as you know, if such policies were made public, there would be no end to busybodies lecturing the bishop or stake president or whoever on how he's not conducting himself or his office duties correctly. No one needs that kind of grief.
  36. 5 points
    skippy740

    Always good, want to be bad

    Okay, I skimmed through this thread, but I don't think anyone really noticed your age and history here. You married at 18 and pregnant the next month. I'm assuming that you've never lived on your own? If anything, THAT was what you missed out on. Not being "rebellious", but in living on your own. You went from your parents straight to married life. I have no solution, just identifying a phase that many other people go through that you seem to have missed.
  37. 5 points
    NeuroTypical

    Always good, want to be bad

    Hi from the other side of the tracks MollyMormon, Funny thing about rebelling - it can be pretty cool at the time, but it comes at a cost. From the age of ten through my early 20's I did some pretty bad horrible things. More than two decades later, I still bear scars and the burdens. The consequences of those actions have negatively impacted lives of more than just the people around me in those years, but also my wife's life, our marriage, and our children who weren't even born back then. Although I've fully repented and been through all the hard stuff, even though I walk clean and free of the stain of my past, I still often find it hard to be on the same planet with all the decent people of the world. The painful, arduous journey back to church activity, the hard-won blessings that only came through spiritual surgery and tears, I wouldn't wish such experiences on my worst enemy. I totally get the desire to see what the rest of the world has to offer. I think you can probably get what you need, without sinning. There are plenty of non-sacred things you can rebel against - like cultural norms. Consider stuff like the following: - Get a radical change in hairstyle and take your husband to learn the tango. - If you live in Utah, volunteer at a Haunted House a few evenings a week in October. - For that matter, volunteer wherever you find sinners - rape crisis centers, drug rehab places, work release programs, halfway houses, etc. You can bring your good LDS self to these places, and you will encounter thrills and be challenged in ways you can't even imagine. No sinning or rebellion against the Lord necessary.
  38. 5 points
    Hi @KY93 and welcome to the forums, and (more importantly) welcome to checking out the Church! The pace of learning about the LDS church is whatever you want it to be. As @Grunt said, sometime us LDS folks (especially missionaries) can get a little over excited and forget you got to walk before you run. But you're in the driver's seat and we do take "pause" or "slow down" very nicely. You are in the driver's seat. We LDS are also HUGE on the "learn line upon line" concept, so no, we're not going to dump a bunch of material on you and say "pop quiz at 8 AM tomorrow!". In fact, there are no pop quizzes in the LDS faith ever. As to reading to material: You're welcome to read as much material as you want (or don't want). Awesome job getting through as much of the Book of Mormon as you have! That is definitely the book of scripture to start with (you're obviously familiar with the Bible already). The most important books in the LDS faith are our 4 books of scripture: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. The 4 are all held at the same level of importance (cause they are all scripture), but some are better to read first and "hit the bullseye" more concisely. Hence, why we focus on reading the Book of Mormon first and wait on the rest right now. One the book which might be of use to your right now is our Sunday School manual for new members (https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng). Obviously a manual and not scripture, but it's really useful for explaining basic LDS doctrines. As with all LDS materials you can read/listen/whatever for free. As far as going to LDS services: again, there's no pop quizzes. But there are screaming babies . LDS believe that worship time is family time, so everyone is together for our main service, including the screaming babies. It's super casual, you're always welcome to join. You're not required to recite anything or make any statement of faith to join in LDS activities (cause we don't recite anything at anytime ). If you'd like to partake in the Lord's Supper with us, you're welcome to, or if you want to pass you're welcome to do that too. The main service is an hour long, with different members of the congregation giving mini-sermons on various subjects (like ~4 mini-sermons in 45 minutes). We don't have a professional pastor to get up and lecture everyone else: rather we all teach each other and we're all learning to better follow Christ, line upon line. In fact, if you come one the 1st Sunday of the month, it's open mic, so you're hear a bunch of folks just get up and talk about their testimony of Christ. If you want to stay after the main service, there's Sunday School classes for everyone, including classes specifically for people just checking out the church. Again, everything is up to you: you're the one in the driver's seat.
  39. 5 points
    Right on. When Trump is right, defend him. When he's a buffoon, call him a buffoon. Some things Trump says are simply indefensible. Stop supporting people, people, and start supporting right and wrong, right?
  40. 5 points
    Carborendum

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    You said 15 years ago. How about 19 years ago? Most of the arguments I hear describing the "confusion" that you allude to is because people have such inflexible and narrow definitions that only inflexible and narrow comments would ever make sense. Because degrees of homosexuality are just as varied as degrees of sexuality in general, we have differing comments for different people. But if one were to pigeon-hole all homosexuals into one mold, then many statements meant for a slightly different mold of homosexual would never make sense. Many on this board are so inflexible on any ideas that they run the risk of counseling God on what homosexuality is or is not. Just how many do you know personally? I've known many. I had a brother who was/is homosexual. I got to know many of his partners. I lived with a homosexual couple. They are indeed varied. The causes are equally varied. I know this from experience and with associating with them and with getting to know them personally. This isn't Hollywood or fundamentalist notions from simple tradition. It is taking into account all Church publication that I've read about the topic from "To the One" to "Mormonandgay". I believe that the apostles are inspired on the topic. And if there is a broader meaning that can encompass all the statements and attitudes that I've read, then I'll believe that broader meaning. If the narrow definition only causes confusion as I read the words of the apostles, it would seem to me that there is something wrong with my narrow definition rather than the prophetic counsel I hear and read. But, of course, you have the freedom to choose to remain in confusion rather than change to reconcile yourself to the prophetic counsel.
  41. 5 points
    SpiritDragon

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    I needed to clarify this point before it is taken wrongly and it seemed better suited to post a clarification than editing what's there. Same Sex attraction is likely no more a sin than opposite sex attraction, it is the jump from thinking that since same sex attraction isn't a sin than neither should same sex marriage be. This part is clearly not part of God's plan for the family. I believe it's precisely why Elder Oaks specifically mentioned both cohabitation outside of marriage and same sex marriage because they are both in violation of the bounds the Lord has set on family and the use/abuse of the procreative process.
  42. 5 points
    zil

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    I think the information therein had not previously appeared as a collection with the degree of clarity that it has in that document. While the various teachings therein (and there are a lot more than the few which get the most press time) are not new, I think the mixture, clarity, and voice are new, and they will be needed more and more lest the saints be worn down by the constant barrage from the enemies of God.
  43. 5 points
    Just_A_Guy

    Dallin H. Oaks talk

    The progressive game is one of incrementalism, and the tactics used by Mormon progressives are no different—they change things by degrees, gaslighting us into thinking that if we disagree with them it’s because we’re moving rightwards; rather than acknowledging that it is they who are moving leftwards. The value of the POTF isn’t necessarily tell us anything we didn’t know—but it reminds us of how long we’ve known it; and it does serve as a sort of doctrinal hitching post. It’s not canon, but it’s very nearly so and it serves the same purpose: as long as we’re visibly tied to it, it becomes clear to outsiders that our doctrine on chastity isn’t going to change. Thats why our libertine wing hates it so much.
  44. 5 points
  45. 5 points
    Carborendum

    Forever families

    I'll give you the perspective of someone sealed as an adoptee. There was about a three year span between when I was adopted and when I was sealed. During that time you can notice a few things. 1) When I first arrived at my new home I asked,"If this is our home, what are these Americans doing here?" Seriously, I had no idea I was being adopted. I wonder if I knew or understood what adoption was. 2) Somewhere between 1 and 6 months I completely forgot my Korean and learned English fluently -- as fluently as one of my age could have I had no noticeable accent. 3) I adopted American customs and culture: clothes, TV, movies, radio, jargon, etc. I couldn't quite get my hair to work right. It was just unruly. Completely unable to be styled in a customarily American fashion. 4) Nothing really changed in my life that I could really discern. My father was a professional photographer. He made a decent living for us. One thing this meant was that we had PLENTY of family photos. When I was a teenager someone noticed that my sister and I (we were biological bro & sis) had some sort of noticeable change between two family photos. It's not something anyone could really put words to. But everyone noticed it. Others chimed in and said,"Yeah, I noticed that too. Between the same two photos. But I didn't know what to make of it." Others agreed, but couldn't really describe it with words. All they could say was that we "looked American". We had already (prior to the change in photos) been wearing American clothing. Our skin tone had gotten lighter from being indoors at school and home much more often than in Korea. So, that was not the source of the "difference" they spoke of. I asked what date those pictures were taken. My father looked it up and told me. I asked, wasn't this the date of our sealing? Everyone had varying looks on their faces. They knew what I meant. But some had a hard time accepting what I said. From my experience, and the posts on this thread, I perceive that the tendency is to believe that sealing is only a power that affects us in the next life. From my own experience I would disagree. Sealing is a welding link that affects us in this life. If we believe in the priesthood, we believe in miracles, we believe the Power of God is real and we can have access to it in His Holy Temples, we can believe that sealing (the highest of ordinances) can affect us today as well as tomorrow. It really is a welding link.
  46. 5 points
    Just_A_Guy

    Choosing my love of men over god

    You *should* be welcomed at church as a human being and a child of God with intrinsic value and unlimited potential, yes. Hopefully that’s what will happen; and you’ll be able to attend and feel uplifted and experience camaraderie and feel like you’re lifting others in return in a meaningful way. But, the Church’s ideals are what they are; and its definition of “sin” is what it is; and its teachings on “the Fall” and our responsibility to act in ways that transcend our baser instincts are what they are. And if you’re waiting for that to change—you’ll be waiting a long time. And if the Church’s holding to its teachings on those topics is going to make you feel “unwelcome” no matter how warmly and sincerely and charitably other congregants treat you, then brother, you’ve got a hard road ahead of you. So yeah, I would encourage you to start going again; but you should also be aware that you aren’t going to be *exactly* like every other member—because they will be assumed to be keeping covenant that you aren’t; and that will have ramifications for what rituals you can participate in, what jobs in the congregation you may or may not be given, opportunities for temple attendance, etc.
  47. 5 points
    Meanwhile, on the other side of the street, good brother finance clerk NeuroTypical successfully passed his second finance audit. Highlights: - The Stake auditor's day job is active-duty patrol officer, with years of criminal auditing experience. He's a nice guy. Nobody messes with him. - He was happy to discover I had detected and corrected a discrepancy where a member requested reimbursement for one penny more than she actually should have requested. - He took me to task for documenting a check as "auto payment for bro so-and-so", because it was unnecessarily vague - was it an "automatic" payment, or an "automobile" payment? - In his years of auditing for the church, he's found a few cases of poor judgment or processes not followed, but never a case of intentional fraud. Pity the FMH/Exponent people didn't have one of him looking over their shoulders.
  48. 5 points
    The Folk Prophet

    Is there a way past this?

    Just to expand on this thought: Faith and doubt do not co-exist because faith is, ultimately, more about trust and commitment than it is about belief. (Belief is a component, of course -- but not the end all). So many people equate faith with simple belief. I am convinced, myself, that faith is possible without belief -- but that's an unlikely scenario. Anyhow, what it really comes down to is choice. We choose to believe or not. We choose to have faith or not. Despite uncertainties (and, frankly, despite the doubts we have), we can choose to set those aside and move forward on what we have experienced -- those glimmers of desire, hope, and light -- to exercise our faith to both believe, follow and act. We have been promised that when we do this (exercise faith) that our hearts will be filled then with greater desire, hope, and light (or, as sometimes described, with fruits from the tree we are nourishing), which leads on and on until the perfect day. We don't need perfect understanding, knowledge, belief, faith, or confidence to move forward.
  49. 5 points
    Just_A_Guy

    Forever families

    Mormonism’s view of an afterlife, I think, seems intuitive to most rank-and-file Christians now—but it wasn’t always so. A hundred years ago, I think most mainstream Christians would have suggested (as, I suspect, many doctrinaire Christian clerics and theologians would continue to insist today) that the “afterlife” does not entail being separate, embodied individuals; but rather literally joining our essence with Christ and the rest of the saved, in some mystical-but-certainly-disembodied union that would make relationships as we experience them now—including marriage—simply irrelevant. In that context, Mormonism saying that “families can be together forever” worked (even though it was an over-simplification); because it presented an entirely different idea on how individuality and materiality and relationships would function in the hereafter. And in some ways, we’ve become victims of our own success—the “Mormon” view of these issues, I think, has more-or-less prevailed in the common Christian’s view of heaven; to the point that when missionaries use the old “families can be together” standby it evokes nothing but a “well, duh” reaction and we appear cruel for suggesting that any other scenario might possibly be the case. But when you listen to the words of the temple ordinance and the scriptures relating to them, and you really dig into what was said about it at a time when Mormon leaders were much more comfortable openly discussing temple doctrines than they are at present; it quickly becomes apparent that the sealing is about much, much more than physical proximity or “being with” any particular individual. It’s about this concept of a “patriarchal order”; and viewing oneself as a single link in an eternal chain; and I think one of the great missionary challenges of our time will be how to describe that in a way that sounds palatable to a generation of post-millennials who increasingly dismiss gender roles, don’t particularly value child-rearing, are becoming less interested in personal relationships, and view fulfillment in the here-and-now as more important than sacrificing for the sake of continuing a legacy that both pre-dates and can out-last them.
  50. 5 points
    zil

    Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy

    IMO, if you have not studied every Sabbath-related entry in the topical guide and Bible dictionary - including "sabbatical" entries - you should. It's an interesting and educational exercise on a topic we think we already understand.