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  1. I don't believe God contradicts himself, nor forgets what he told to whom when. So, how do we explain your example, which I'll bet happens fairly often. First, the bishop likely discussed the calling with the ward council (and / or presidency over the area in question) and accepted suggestions. After consideration, discussion, and prayer (probably with his counselors), he comes to a decision. Then he takes it to the Lord. He (or they) likely feels an impression that this is right (or wrong and we start this loop over). It's probably quite rare to receive something more firm (for lack of a better word) than the impression that he's made a good decision. I suspect that the impression he's received thus far is that it's right to extend the call. Being humans who are big fans of "cut to the chase", we tend to assume this means the Lord wants that person in this calling. Any more, I assume it means the Lord is good with the bishop extending the call to that person. Next, the person either agrees to meet with the bishop or not. If so, they hear the call extended, and respond in some way. If they feel the need to pray before answering, that is their privilege and the Lord will guide them as much as they are able to receive said guidance. Could the guidance they receive be to decline to accept the calling? At least in theory, yes. Perhaps the Lord was good with extending the calling because of some side effect it would have. Perhaps this person needs to discuss some struggle they're going through. None of that necessarily means the bishop or the member erred in understanding the Spirit's guidance (though in any given instance, these are possibilities). And yet, I'd bet most of the time, people would assume it does mean that someone was wrong (and if they're personally involved, it's the other person who was wrong). If I were teaching a talk about revelation, I would refresh my memory of Acquiring Spiritual Knowledge, and I would review the numerous (ok, at least 4) talks from General Conference that relate to following the Spirit, so that I had a variety of perspectives and teaching approaches. And one of the points of my lesson would likely be that we shouldn't assume more than what the Spirit actually tells you. A positive feeling about asking someone out does not necessarily mean you're going to marry them - it means asking them out is good. A positive feeling about moving to a new place may not mean life there is going to be rainbows and unicorns - it might mean there's hard work there and you're needed to help with it. It seems the Lord doesn't like to skip to the ending, he wants us to pay attention to the here and now.
    4 points
  2. Grunt

    struggling

    I can't help you with ANY of that, and I'm really sorry you are experiencing this. I CAN tell you "what the point" is, though. Eternal life with God and family. That's what you go to church for.
    3 points
  3. False equivocation. Whether or not we should record divorces is a topic worth discussing. Being born of fornication doesn't change your bloodline.
    2 points
  4. Because, as I clearly stated, it is a big deal to me. I have an opinion on the subject. The fact that it doesn't directly impact me doesn't detract from that.
    2 points
  5. This is one of those topics where the people of the church accept one directiion when the prophets are trying to direct them elsewhere. I read on here often and in “LDS” magazines and articles written by freelance Mormon writers about how it is acceptable to decline a calling from a church leader. Some have even attempted to explain how and when it is ok. And yet I have yet to hear even an area 70 or a bishop let alone an apostle or prophet back this idea that it was acceptable to decline a calling. I have only ever heard them tell us that we are to accept callings we are extended with faith. Can anyone refute this with evidence?
    2 points
  6. Here are some thoughts pertaining to this question: 1) Ponder thoughtfully Doctrine and Covenants 84: 34-46 2) If a Bishop, Stake President, Elder's Quorum President were to extend a call, and that call is truly inspired by the Spirit, a person would be in error to think they would receive anything else but a confirmation of said calling. If they receive revelation, a person will not receive a different answer from Heavenly Father. 3) In my experience, I recognize two forms of revelation: inspirational and practical. Practical revelation is God has given me a mind to think for myself. If a person were to pray and receive a different revelation (inspirational) then I would move forward with someone else. Inspirational, is direct revelation from God. This can be still small voice, it can be audible voice, and it can be by vision. I do not understand how people think they will receive a different revelation than a leader who has received inspirational revelation, if they are truly seeking God's will. Let me give a thought in reverse. When a bishop or counselor is called, the bishop does not call, the stake president does. When the bishop prayed, inspiration was received and the name given to the stake president. The stake president than spoke with the stake president in order to request this individual to serve in a single's ward bishopric. The stake president in that area said you can't have him. He was too important for that ward, at least to this stake president. The bishop received word from his stake president by which he (the bishop) went back to the Lord and said, "I have done what I can according to my position, authority, and keys. I know this is whom you called, it is now in your hands." The next day the stake president received a call from the other stake president saying something to this nature, "I don't like it. I don't want it. But the Lord wants it. You can have him." When we deny inspirational revelation, we will not receive the blessings God wants us to receive, and remember, as with Joseph Smith, if we pester/ask the Lord enough he will give us what we want. We will receive a revelation that says, "No, don't accept it," not because it was actually the will of God, but he allowed us to receive what we wanted. 4) In relation to practical revelation, leaders have not reached a more sure word of prophecy and revelation. They are not perfect with their revelation. In these cases, yes, a person can easily receive a different revelation. Yes, it appears you are defining revelation correctly. As with all experiences with the principle of revelation, our sincerity and heart to do God's will is most important, and will determine if we are truly seeking God's will with callings, rather than our own will, because God will indeed give us what we want via revelation, even if opposite to his will.
    2 points
  7. Just_A_Guy

    Podcasts

    So, there’s a brand-spanking-new podcast called “True Blue Mormon”, available via YouTube, whose raison d’etre seems to be as a counterpunch to the leftist Mormon blogosphere. Only two episodes out so far, but they sound promising.
    2 points
  8. Well, because FamilySearch's Vision statement says "Learning about our ancestors helps us better understand who we are—creating a family bond, linking the present to the past, and building a bridge to the future." So, it's now the law of the land to recognize SS marriages as valid and lawful. So that means, whether God and Mormons recognize them as good things or not, yes indeed, someone's grandpa Bill WAS married to George, and they DID adopt and raise Mom, who gave birth to them. So, like it or not, those ARE that person's ancestors. Might as well learn from them.
    2 points
  9. georgia

    B.of.M vs the Bible

    Hello everyone! I'm an investigator, been at it for about two months now. I think I have a desire to be baptized eventually, but it's not the right time... I'm making progress but moving as fast as can be expected, I think, given that I was raised without an ounce of religion of any kind. I read the entire Book of Mormon and in fact I just started reading it a second time. I thought it would be tedious, but I was surprised at how eagerly I read it (finished it in under a month). Its words feel suffused with Spirit and inspiration, and I truly feel a sense of peace, not to mention fascination, when I read it. Even the parts I don't understand (2 Nephi I'm looking at you), I still feel content to just take in the words. Often I feel bewildered as to why I feel this way, and I kept expecting this to all be a phase I'll get over, but I keep finding that I just like reading a few chapters every night and I like having it in my bag at work even if I don't have time to read it. I always used to think, religious scriptures as so inaccurate and contradictory, how can anyone take them seriously? But I find that I really don't care if the B.of.M is accurate historically or not, it just doesn't matter to me. It's not the point. I just love feeling the Spirit whenever I open it, and I just feel that it contains the words that God meant for us to read, and whatever God's truth really is, we'll probably never really know for certain, because we're just humans and we can't see it from God's perspective. That's where faith comes in (and a lot of humility!) Anyway though, one issue I've had is that I don't feel this way at all about the Bible, neither the OT nor the NT. Just like I've never felt at all inspired inside Christian churches before I came to an LDS church, I don't feel inspired at all when I read the Bible .I think it's because of all the translations, that beautiful feeling of the Spirit being present in the words has been leached away over the years. When I read the Bible, I feel nothing. I haven't been able to get through it all, because it's so dry that it depresses me. (I did read Genesis & Exodus as well as Matthew & Mark) It just feels like a dry recitation of events and I start thinking about how it doesn't really make any sense even. God must have multiple personalities and change his mind constantly (which the B of M specifically says he does NOT do). And when you learn about how the OT & NT were written, historically, it gets even worse, because of the blatant inaccuracies/contradictions and the many outright fabrications on the part of the writers (like for example the NT was basically written in such a way to please the Roman authorities and the message of the real Jesus, which as mainly oriented around Jewish nationalism, was completely abandoned because it was too dangerous. source -- "Zealot" by Reza Aslan). But the Book of Mormon feels like real scripture, it FEELS like it was divinely inspired, and when I learn about the prophet's vision I just get this strong sense that it is true. And I start thinking, how on earth could Joseph Smith just write all this stuff seemingly from memory unless he was really translating from an ancient text? It just all fits together, it feels right & true. But the Bible feels like a bunch of baloney!! I wish I felt as inspired when I read the Bible as I do when I read the B.of.M... but I can't make myself feel something I don't feel. This is why I never felt the remotest desire to be Christian until I went to an LDS church and started reading the B.of.M. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, I'm writing this because it helps to get it off my chest and if anyone has any wise words that would be appreciated. Maybe the Bible is just too old and we have to have a renewal of scripture every couple thousand years because the old stuff just loses the Spirit. Even if its true (God's truth if not historical truth), it just loses its relevancy to us, or something. Thoughts?
    1 point
  10. Congratulations on serving as a Sister missionary @Springtrapped. I'm male, went on a mission decades ago in South America well prior to any anti musical. With that said... Each generation of missionaries will face opposition. That opposition may be in the form of a: Broadway musical, books, animated cartoons, etc. The fact is, there is opposition in all things, a mission is no different. Missionaries will learn to adapt to the modern spins of these criticisms, but for the most part - anti material is typically the same old talking points rehashed over and over again. Don't worry, have faith and enjoy your Mission! If you are handed lemons on your mission, make lemonade instead. The Church took out ads in the actual BOM musical playbill doing just that:
    1 point
  11. Hey Neuro, Divorce is not illegal or wrong for certain circumstances. Being born out of wedlock doesn't change your genealogical line. The fact that gay couples weren't recognized until the law changed is just bothersome to me. This isn't just about the gays. This changing things as things start changing in the country. examples: - US hates polygamy. Saints quit and ban the practice so all the men don't go to jail and the Temples aren't confiscated. - Civil Rights Movement comes along "Okay, tada, guess what, The Lord says EVERYONE gets the priesthood now!" (Which I am glad because before it was just dumb to begin with, I will inquire of the Lord when I am dead to see what Really happened there. He will be able to help me understand) - Country legitimizes the forbidden and now church recognizes their unions. Why? Is mammon going to confiscate our temples if we don't? Are we going to run and hide again because the gentiles will hates us and kill our men again? How bad we got rocked before has always been a concern to me but I KNOW The Book of Mormon is true. They killed brother Joseph and the Saints lived in fear. Where is the faith? Where is the trust to defend? Then when some saints struck back they are condemned and vilified (meadow massacre) These are confusing times. Even the Pope telling a homosexual man God made him that way is confusing (my family converted to Mormonism from Catholicism but fell away because of circumstances) Troubling times indeed
    1 point
  12. Current normal genealogy practice, includes recording divorce, or illigitimate children born out of wedlock. Doesn't mean we embrace or condone divorce or fornication. Quite the opposite. It is now becoming normal genealogy practice, to record same-sex marriages. Doesn't mean we embrace or condone same sex marriages. Quite the opposite.
    1 point
  13. I'm surprised at the reaction to this. Sure, the homosexuality topic touches a nerve for some. The church isn't legitimising it here. Merely acknowledging that it exists. We also believe infant baptism is an abomination but we'll happily use records of infant baptism in our family history. This has been done right since the beginning and it hasn't led to the church practising infant baptism either for the living or the dead. It's not a slippery slope at all. Just part of our keeping a record of what happened. No fundamental doctrines were changed. Similarly with this. No doctrines are in danger of being changed. Sure. It may be uncomfortable to show your children the family tree if there are such couples represented in it. Family trees can be uncomfortable anyway. My great grandfather was a serial womaniser and had children by several women. Recording these children's births is uncomfortable but it happened. Doesn't legitimise sinful behaviour one bit.
    1 point
  14. I suspect there are lots of subconscious things (personal and cultural) which prevent us from discussing the impact a calling might have - and the impact we might have in a calling. I suspect this tendency to avoid the discussion leads to lots of problems from the extreme of turning down a calling you should have accepted to the other extreme of killing yourself in a calling which didn't need to be so hard that it caused you ulcers and heart attacks (literally). I could be wrong and this may not happen on a large scale (though I suspect it does). If it does, I have no clue how we adjust so that the subconscious influences are replaced by open, trusting conversation when a calling is extended. Certainly part of that would have to be to allow more than 5 minutes for the meeting, but open, trust, and discussion / counseling don't appear to be things humans do easily.
    1 point
  15. Sunday21

    Podcasts

    Yeah! Will be great! Ink, ink, pens, paper, ink...
    1 point
  16. Fether

    Prayer-kneeling vs sitting

    Yes... well no...but yes. But like how It is better to go to church once a month than not at all. I strongly believe that prayer should be said on your knees or while standing. Nothing should get in the way of a morning and evening prayer said whilst kneeling before your father in heaven. Along with that, praying in your heart m while walking, driving, at school, work or with friends is a great supplement, but should NEVER replace a kneeling morning and evening prayer. As soon as we start praying while laying down in bed in the morning is the moment prayer becomes as important as flipping your pillow over to the cold side. Along with this we ought to pray over every meal, standing or sitting seems just fine. Study the following: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/10/patterns-of-prayer-in-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/ensign/1996/01/after-this-manner-pray-ye?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2003/04/sweet-power-of-prayer?lang=eng note: all I said above obviously changes when someone has bad knees or any condition that prevents them.
    1 point
  17. Parents never stop being parents, no matter how old their children become. It is an eternal calling and responsibility. Ideally, there should be some changes in the way the parents fulfill their roles as their children become older, and there should be some shifts in responsibility and accountability from the parents to their children as they all grow older but it would seem to be unwise not to seek counsel from the people who know you best and who, more than anybody else, have your best interests at heart. A parent who does not occasionally offer the benefit of their wisdom and experience to their children would seem to be holding back from them something that could be helpful. How this is done, and how frequently, and how it is received seem to be issues that need to be worked out between the parents, the children and their spouses.
    1 point
  18. Petty3

    Podcasts

    You can try leadinglds.org Not sure if it's what you're looking for though.
    1 point
  19. I just re-listened to this talk, upon hearing your question. (And because it was a good talk to listen to while cleaning). It was really good talk, and provides good insight as to what revelation is. As to your question "Is it possible for personal revelation to contradict general Church or local leadership revelation?" I don't think that this question can be addressed as one umbrella, but instead needs to be broken down into different things. ---Using your example " can a Bishop get a revelation that you should have a particular calling, you pray about it and come up with a different answer", I would say "yes 100%". Callings are something you need to confirm with the Lord directly too. If there's a disagreement on things, talk about it. Thinking of one instance in my life: I was called to be in Scouts, which met Tuesday night. This calling came from the current Scout leaders, who felt the Lord telling them I would be a great addition to the team. And I would have been-- but I had to work every Tuesday and could not serve then. So I told them, and it was agreed that would not work. Still... being extended the call made me feel thought of, and was a blessing in my life. --- For a different example: "can I get a revelation that it's ok for my girlfriend and I to have sex, despite what the prophet teaches on the Law of Chasity?" No. Just no. --- There are other examples which can also be examples of two people describing different parts of the same elephant. And many more. When in doubt, approach each case with prayer, consulting God's words, and wise counsel.
    1 point
  20. This sounds horrible as I say it but I can't think of better phrasing: I get on my knees (if the situation allows) if it's an important prayer, asking for forgiveness or asking for something. Otherwise, I prefer to stand rather than sit, and have no problem sitting if standing or kneeling is problematic.
    1 point
  21. Overwatch

    struggling

    Ah, I see. I can understand the feeling. Having such a great time with the non-members and feeling like part of the family but then going to church and you feel like an outsider or snubbed. I would say keep your friends you have and just be a good example. If you find that you are falling away because you feel excluded just treat it like a task. It is a commandment to serve and of course renew your covenants. Maybe if you don't expect anything from going to church, other than Love from Father, then you will be able to cope with the blandness of the situation. Just keep inviting people. Snag new ward members and converts as soon as they move in and start your own little group but be different; be willing to take in new participants
    1 point
  22. Overwatch

    struggling

    Hey!!!! Sorry to hear you are having such a crappy time at church. I would suggest just having fun with your spouse. Start a new hobby together and build a strong bond there. Find other couples to hang out with if you can but if not don't sweat it. While non-members seem to have stronger kinsmen bonds (of which I am so jealous) they usually are getting in trouble, lol. I know because even though I didn't drink I was the DD and the end of the night was always the worst. Count your blessings, maybe these people are lame? No sense in trying to be friends with fake people. It sounds like you are lonely and joining the Church you thought you were joining a real group of saintly people. haha. I assure there are some for real but most people need the name so they remember to actually be saints. Lower your expectations of the members. Just know they will be there if the bishop asks them to be (some may actually truly love you but they are burnt out from doing all the volunteering) To me it seems you are lonely and hunger for camaraderie. You know, girls night out LDS style! Having tupperware parties and those clothes a ton of people lost a lot of money on. Want to be those edgy LDS moms? Pure romantic sales!!! Wooo! "I just like the creams, that's all"🤢 lol. look... I can laugh now because I wanted the same thing. Today I have a relative come over and visit!!! They watched the kids and I took my wife out on a date. it was sooo much fun. It is just what we needed I hope you find something to occupy you soon. I will check back on this thread to see how you are doing.
    1 point
  23. If you've found a man who isn't baptized and he's been fine with you following the Law of Chastity for over TWO years while remaining faithful to you, he either loves you immensely or is a man of character, I think. The rest is a decision you need to make.
    1 point
  24. Even if I was a gambler, which I'm not, I don't think I would want to gamble with something as important as temple marriage. My wife showed me a thought provoking meme yesterday. It said "it's better to wait long than to marry wrong."
    1 point
  25. If your question could be re-phrased as "How long do I sit around waiting for this person to turn into the person I want to marry" - that's a major problem on your side. If this person how he is NOW is not the person you want to marry, then break up the engagement. Don't wait around until they become a different person that you want to marry-- that's unfair to all involved. (Note: none of this is specific to religion, rather applies to all things)
    1 point
  26. SpiritDragon

    Podcasts

    https://player.fm/series/the-joseph-smith-papers I listen to these when I work out. They have been pretty interesting to me and are church friendly. I also really have enjoyed listening to articles from mormon interpreter. Pretty well all of their articles can be downloaded as mp3's for ease of listening. This makes them great for me to listen to while cleaning the house.
    1 point
  27. This is a sad day for Canadian freedom.
    1 point
  28. Well, we know there are conditions under which a temple must be re-dedicated. Therefore, it's logical to conclude that there are things which could void the dedication of a private residence (regardless of who's living there). That's about the extent of my knowledge on this.
    1 point
  29. Sup Maggie. Glad you asked us. Dump him and find a man willing to take you to the temple. My wife suffered trying to get me to be everything she wanted. She is lucky I already had an lds background otherwise I most likely wouldn't have gave a crap. The church sounds crazy, especially these days. So much easier to drink my beer and coffee and do whatever I want on Sunday. I know everyone is different but two years, you already know what you have to do. Just remember your first marriage and strive for what you really want and don't take less.
    1 point
  30. No matter what, it’s stupid to borrow money to pay tithing. So dont.
    1 point
  31. Whenever I hear questions about policy on whether we should do the work for the dead who had a questionable life (should we baptize Hitler? Should we baptize the excommunicated?) I am reminded of this scripture: I interpret this as meaning that in this life, we err on the side of forgiveness. We just do the work, forgive them and let the Lord decide in the next life what happens.
    1 point
  32. Depends on what you mean by "we". If this was an LDS website serving only LDS goals, absolutely you are correct. But this website is for all humans, and the human "we" is subject to man's laws and civilization custom. The supreme court decision a few years back made stuff like this law. And at least in the US, we crossed the 50% acceptance of SSM a while ago, making it civilization custom. There has never been a biological requirement to have someone be your ancestor/family. Adoption has been a thing forever. My FIL is sealed to a dad and mom who are not his biological parents. It feels weird explaining this, like I somehow agree with the way things are. I don't. I seek the Kingdom of God, and wish the world to be filled with righteous Saints, and the laws and governments that would spring from such a righteous people. But I don't have that, and neither does familysearch.com.
    1 point
  33. I disagree. We practice God's law, not man's. A woman your mother sleeps with is neither your ancestor nor your family.
    1 point
  34. Inevitable next steps are to continue saying "no" when people want same-sex couples / families sealed. I don't see anything inevitable except people using this to further delude themselves. There are already policies - such people can't receive temple ordinances (at least, that's my understanding). I feel quite confident that if proxy work were allowed to be done, it would be done for their biological gender at birth (even surgery doesn't change that). The only real confusion would be people born with both genders, but that's exceptionally rare, no idea if it's ever happened with someone born in the Church, and someone with a higher pay grade will be figuring that one out. (Wouldn't surprise me if the answer were to wait for the millennium.)
    1 point
  35. When my husband received his Sealing Cancellation letter from the 1st Presidency he did not have to return it. That was in 2014. Also, it did mention that the children would retain their blessing of being born in the Covenant. It did not say the children would go with the father, but it would be decided in the next life and all will be conditional upon personal worthiness and individual agency.
    1 point
  36. The bold part is not true. As to the next question, “What happens to the children in the next life when there has been a cancellation of sealing of the parents?” it is understood that in the case of a cancellation of the sealing of the woman to the man, this does not cancel the sealing of the children to the parents, since they were born in the covenant, which is a birthright blessing. They remain in the status of the sealing to their parents and can never be sealed to anyone else. The decision as to with whom they will go will be determined by the Lord in the hereafter. https://www.lds.org/new-era/1975/12/q-and-a-questions-and-answers/what-happens-when-a-couple-gets-a-temple-divorce?lang=eng M.
    1 point
  37. As one commenter said, facts are facts. Given current law, the system needs to be able to document these facts. The only negative I see is that some people will use this to (further) convince themselves and others that one day the Church will seal same-sex couples in the temple. That won't happen, but some people will use this to turn hope into belief, or belief into surety...
    1 point
  38. wenglund

    False Promptings

    I have learned that false promptings, or false interpretations of promptings, aren't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, they are quite useful in developing revelatory skills and growing in faith. How else can we learn to discern, particularly the spiritually nuanced, except through experiencing the false as well as the true, except we spiritually fail as well as succeed. In other words, @Sunday21, even if you assume that you received a false prompting, it isn't indicative that there is something spiritually, mentally, or emotionally wrong with you. Rather, take it as a sign that you are growing. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
    1 point
  39. Respectfully, your mission president was an idiot.
    1 point
  40. unixknight

    Podcasts

    Cosplay. My CV: (Yeah I know I keep posting that, but I spent a lot of time and resources on that suit and dagnabbit I'm gonna get all the mileage I can out of it...)
    1 point
  41. An Investigator

    struggling

    I am going to be honest, there is no way I would speak to my Bishop about it. I find him quite unapproachable and unless I have a sinned and therefore need to speak to him which has never happened so far. I would never speak to him about anything. Aside from preparing for my endowment I've spoken to him twice. It's fine, I will try and work through it on my own. Thanks for the advice though.
    0 points
  42. zil

    Prayer-kneeling vs sitting

    Dude, everybody prays when you're driving. . . . (Sorry, it was just too easy!)
    0 points
  43. Your uncle is wearing two hats in relation to you - Uncle and Bishop. I think that's pretty normal with anyone. If you find his advice when he is your Bishop acceptable but not acceptable when he is your Uncle, then ignore the Uncle and listen to the Bishop. M.
    0 points
  44. Yep! When I sell my first house I’ll advertise it as being “pre blessed”. Adds like $80,000 to it’s value
    0 points
  45. You wrong why you think this of me? Is no nice. No I live with him so is no just the Bishop lecture but also my uncle lecture
    0 points
  46. you no know I live with my bishop so is worse
    0 points