Anddenex

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  1. Like
    Anddenex reacted to laronius in No in-betweeners?   
    While our beliefs entail a much broader spectrum of salvation (three kingdoms of glory with perhaps many levels of glory within them) as compared to the heaven and hell belief of most Christians, I still find it interesting that there is still such a significant chasm between the kingdoms of glory, at least as the imagery implies: sun vs moon vs stars. Their difference in glory is vast. This would seem to imply that no one is going to just barely miss one kingdom. If you are only worthy of a lesser kingdom then you are still quite a ways off from being worthy of the greater kingdom. 
    If that conclusion is accurate (and I'm equally interested in what you think if you feel it's not) then there must be a rather significant distinction in worthiness for there not being necessary a middle ground of worthiness, something in between the sun and moon and stars. For example, we know those in the Terrestrial Kingdom are labeled as not valiant in the testimony of Jesus whereas those in the Celestial Kingdom are. Will there not be anyone who is only sorta valiant, more than those in the Terrestrial but not up to snuff compared to the Celestial?
    It's not something I had considered in the past but it does strike me that there must be a good answer out there somewhere, maybe in one of your noggins. Hopefully.
    I guess what my question boils down to is if you believe there really is such a significant gap, what makes it so? Or if you think the top of one kingdom is close to the bottom of the next kingdom, why the imagery implying otherwise?
  2. Like
    Anddenex reacted to Traveler in The United Order   
    My family is the holder of the best known copy of the Rules of the United Order.  For your fun and enjoyment I have printed out a copy (on my compurter not a photo copy) of the rules of the United Order.
     
    The Traveler
  3. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from laronius in Seeking Home   
    I'm would think it is the same process that Abraham followed on an individual level, except with the city it was a collective decision accomplished by individual choices by each member of the society (Abraham 1:2). I also think it helps to have a leader to who lived as long as Enoch.
    If we were to take the 10 commandments, and every one in a society/village decided to follow those ten commandments (with full purpose of heart and with real intent) imagine in three generations how strong that society would be/become. There would be no:
    Adultery Fornication (including rape) Stealing Lying Dishonoring parents (one of the great doorways of our society toward evil) Perversions of Sex/Gender Murder War Welfare Occupation This is a society that can only be accomplished through a belief in Jesus Christ, and we would start seeing:
    Stronger families Honesty in all dealings Service Industry Forgiveness Repentance  
  4. Thanks
    Anddenex got a reaction from Traveler in Seeking Home   
    I'm would think it is the same process that Abraham followed on an individual level, except with the city it was a collective decision accomplished by individual choices by each member of the society (Abraham 1:2). I also think it helps to have a leader to who lived as long as Enoch.
    If we were to take the 10 commandments, and every one in a society/village decided to follow those ten commandments (with full purpose of heart and with real intent) imagine in three generations how strong that society would be/become. There would be no:
    Adultery Fornication (including rape) Stealing Lying Dishonoring parents (one of the great doorways of our society toward evil) Perversions of Sex/Gender Murder War Welfare Occupation This is a society that can only be accomplished through a belief in Jesus Christ, and we would start seeing:
    Stronger families Honesty in all dealings Service Industry Forgiveness Repentance  
  5. Like
    Anddenex reacted to laronius in Seeking Home   
    Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
    These verses have always struck a cord with me. When Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden into the lone and dreary world, they longed to return home again, back into God's presence. In the scriptures we read of this longing for a home (promised land) over and over again. But receiving a land of inheritance is only the beginning. It's not truly home until God resides there as well, in other words, Zion. We see the perfect example of this with Enoch. He helped create a true Home on earth and then were taken up into God's bosom.
    It makes me wonder what that process was like. Surely they experienced many of the same struggles that modern families and communities deal with. And yet they were able to endure and eventually overcome them. 
  6. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in Enos 1:3-8   
    Word change
    The song (I am a child of God) was first performed at a stake Primary conference in 1957. Several years later, apostle Spencer W. Kimball asked the Primary general board if the phrase "Teach me all that I must know / To live with him someday" could be changed to "Teach me all that I must do / To live with him someday". As Kimball later explained, "To know isn't enough. The devils know and tremble; the devils know everything. We have to do something." The Primary general board accepted the change.
  7. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from mikbone in Enos 1:3-8   
    I really like this thought, and I'm reminded of mine own experience with this type of change myself. My parents taught me who I was as a son of God, and made it very clear I was a child (son) of God. Despite the very clear teaching it wasn't until my mission when I received personal witness/revelation that I was a "son of God." It to this day, is the most important revelation I have received outside of receiving witness of who Christ is and what he accomplished.
    Enos's father was a prophet. He didn't neglect teaching his children about who Christ was, the law of Moses, and many other things, and despite all these teachings Enos still required his own personal revelation/witness.
    This also reminds me of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Abraham received covenant, taught his son, and Isaac sought after the same blessing to receive it for himself. Jacob did also, they both didn't rely on the witness from their father, but they let the teachings of their father to have full sway in their hearts to seek after the blessing themselves.
  8. Like
    Anddenex reacted to Traveler in Enos 1:3-8   
    I relate to Enos and his struggle.  Growing up in a righteous home well rooted in the gospel of Christ – I believed my parents, attended church, sought understanding and received conformations.  As I grew towards adulthood and became aware of this universe of uncertainty and my own inability to reconcile seeming contradictions, I began to wonder what it was I seemed to be missing.  Not so much doubts that what I believed was wrong – just that like the rich young man that came to Jesus – I wondered what it was that I was missing.
    I had spent time in the army during the Vietnam conflict and lost friends in that war.  I had also served a mission but felt that I had been sent home at the end of my allotted time leaving critical things undone.  There was a young lady that had waited faithfully for me to complete my mission, writing to me almost every week.  I went out with her once on a date and could not connect taking her home early.  I had a major conflict with a professor (that within a year was fired) and decided to drop out of college.  I felt that the girls I met and attempted to date were seriously spiritually flawed.
    I had a companion from my mission that was a native American.  I discussed with him my spiritual disconnect.  He knew me from our experiences together and knew I was raised hunting for part of the food I ate and convinced me to take time off and go on a spiritual quest similar to Enos, Moses and Christ.   I took a blanket, rope, knife, a coat, Book of Mormon and the clothes on my back and walked away from civilization into the desert of central Utah – living on the land as a 40 day fast.
    Just over 20 days into my experience I came across a fellow on a prison release program that had become lost and was in serious trouble.  He had not eaten for a few days and has blisters, bleeding and was unable to walk without assistance and was more than twice my size.  It took over two days to get him out and to safety and there was a time I did not think we would make it but were saved by a miracle.  I thought that my spiritual efforts had been ruined.  My personal Enos wilderness experience failed – or so I thought.  After a few more weeks I left my wilderness without the spiritual manifestation I expected.  I had a spiritual experience in my youth, somewhat similar to young Joseph Smith and believed that I could reconnect.  But it did not happen as I expected.  I came to realize that spiritual experience come through personalizing one’s covenants.  The meaning and purpose of spiritual experiences is to galvanize one’s covenants.
    As we keep our covenants through faith and dedication the spirit strengthens that faith and opens greater spiritual possibilities.  My time in the wilderness has become one of my greatest strengths leading me through life – reminding me of many things I was given during my quest and reminding me to remain faithful to covenants.  It is my understanding that Enos’s life was not fixed through his wilderness experience but rather he came to a understanding of how his purpose in life is fixed through divine covenant that he had already made but not completed.
     
    The Traveler
  9. Like
    Anddenex reacted to laronius in Enos 1:3-8   
    I imagine Jacob did teach him all that but we know what Enos remembered:
    "the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart."
    I think he came to a realization of the great chasm between his lost and fallen state and where he wanted to be. Despite his father's teaching it had to seem insurmountable. 
    I came across something yesterday that I think is applicable.
    Ether 12:4 Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God...
    I always figured that this word surety was just an older way of saying sure, like confident or certain. And it can be. But it also has an enhanced meaning.
    Surety: a person who takes responsibility for another's performance of an undertaking, for example their appearing in court or the payment of a debt.
    The gospel application here is pretty obvious. Christ has become surety for us, to pay a debt that is impossible for us to pay on our own. I think it was this feeling of impossibleness that weighed heavily upon Enos' mind, despite what he had been taught. But he learned that with God all things are possible, especially the most important stuff.
  10. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in Enos 1:3-8   
    Nephi’s nephew here gains a testimony, is forgiven of his sins, and learns of Jesus Christ.
    I think his question, “How is it done?” is genius.
    Here is my question:  Don’t you think that Enos’s father Jacob had given him all this information in detail previously?
    There comes a moment in our lives when we must leave the nest, fly on our own and feed ourselves.  
  11. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mirkwood in Mosiah 15:4   
    Think of "they" in context of an organization.
     
    Example:  Officer Mirkwood works in Utah.  He is part of the police.  They work together to solve crimes.
     
  12. Like
    Anddenex reacted to JohnsonJones in Kirtland Temple!   
    The CoC SHOULD BE A WARNING about the dangers of trying to go with mainstream Christianity.
    The Churches that are staying with their more traditional teachings and values are (in general) staying stronger with their membership (though most are also still declining if it is a larger church) than those that have tried to "modernize" and "mainstream" their various religions.
    I think the Temple in Missouri (theirs) will be one of the last things they would let go, and 190 million will keep them going for a good while at least. 
    Interestingly enough, this is similar to one of the original divisions within the Islamic religion.  The question of whether the successor to Mohammad should be his son Ali or a council of others.
    This caused a division in the religion that has animosity between the both sides from back then during the division to the present day.
    At least we are not angry and violent towards each other like the divisions of Islam caused.
  13. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from Traveler in Kirtland Temple!   
    Yep, this is a pretty significant purchase by the Church.
     
  14. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in Kirtland Temple!   
    https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/content/historic-sites/missouri/questions-and-answers-about-the-temple-lot-in-independence-missouri?lang=eng
    I bet we purchase some property in Independence Missouri next.  Likely within 5 years.
    And there we will build a Temple to the Lord.
  15. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in Kirtland Temple!   
    Bet we will be using the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible quite a bit more in our classes.
    192.5 M well spent.
  16. Love
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in Kirtland Temple!   
    https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/sacred-sites-and-historic-documents-transfer-to-church-of-jesus-christ
  17. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from Vort in Jesus being mean   
    If we are strict with interpretation, the Canaanite (not considered a member) woman was not a member and most people would be offended at being likened to a dog at a master's table.
    But she took no offense, accepted the metaphor, continued with the metaphor, and her daughter was made hole. I'm thinking, most people would be offended at this type of straight forward analogy.
     
  18. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Jesus being mean   
    If we are strict with interpretation, the Canaanite (not considered a member) woman was not a member and most people would be offended at being likened to a dog at a master's table.
    But she took no offense, accepted the metaphor, continued with the metaphor, and her daughter was made hole. I'm thinking, most people would be offended at this type of straight forward analogy.
     
  19. Like
    Anddenex reacted to laronius in Why the hurry?   
    This is Wilford Woodruff's account of a dream/vision he had of Joseph Smith:
    “Joseph Smith continued visiting myself and others up to a certain time, and then it stopped.
    The last time I saw him was in heaven. In the night vision I saw him at the door of the temple in heaven. He came and spoke to me. He said he could not stop to talk with me because he was in a hurry….
    “By and by I saw the Prophet again, and I got the privilege to ask him a question. ‘Now,’ said I, ‘I want to know why you are in a hurry. I have been in a hurry all through my life; but I expected my hurry would be over when I got into the kingdom of heaven, if I ever did.’
     “Joseph said: ‘I will tell you, Brother Woodruff. Every dispensation that has had the Priesthood on the earth and has gone into the celestial kingdom, has had a certain amount of work to do to prepare to go to the earth with the Savior when He goes to reign on the earth. Each dispensation has had ample time to do this work. We have not. We are the last dispensation, and so much work has to be done, and we need to be in a hurry in order to accomplish it.’ Of course, that was satisfactory to me, but it was new doctrine to me.”
    I am curious to know what exactly needs to be prepared on that side of the veil before the Second Coming. There are a few things I think we learn from this experience.
    1. It is definitely connected to the priesthood as it only applies to dispensations that had the priesthood.
    2. The Second Coming is partially dependent upon it being completed or ready. Or at least, those who will go with him are dependent upon it.
    3. The fact that this interview took place at the door of the temple in heaven would seem to imply that it is temple related.
    4. It may not be just about being ready for Jesus' coming but also His reign on the earth.
    We know there is a lot of work for the dead taking place but that apparently will be happening all throughout the Millennium as well so I don't know that that is the reason for the hurry on the other side. Unless that work is needing to be done for specific individuals prior to the Second Coming. Maybe it's something connected with what will transpire in Adam-ondi-Ahman. 
    It does make me wonder about the system of government that will exist during the Millennium. Christ will of course reign as King but how is the government setup under him? And will there be a separate religious leadership organization from the government body?
  20. Like
    Anddenex reacted to laronius in I come quickly   
    I think we could add to your list the fact that preparation takes time and sincerity. The practically overnight conversion of certain individuals in the scriptures are certainly not the norm. The five foolish virgins had a little advanced notice but it wasn't enough to fully get ready and likely would not have lead to permanent change anyway. When the bridegroom did finally appear they weren't necessarily surprised but they were still unprepared.
  21. Like
    Anddenex reacted to mikbone in I come quickly   
    We are exactly 200 years from some very important events.
    The bicentennial year of the printing of the Book of Mormon and organization of the Church is only 6 years away.
    I’m still gonna encourage my children to get an education, temple marriage, and make grand-babies.
    I also own a solar array, swimming pool supply of potable water, and a year supply of $.
    I have lived during one of the most exciting times in the history of mankind.  The dawn of the space / information age and development of AI.  I luckily bought some stock in NVIDIA about a decade ago.
    Lots of excitement to come.
    Really hoping to see the eclipse on April 8th.  I traveled 400 miles on Aug 21, 2017 to watch the last great American total eclipse in Oregon.  It was spectacular!

    I’m also monitoring the war in Israel.  I don’t perceive any peaceful resolution in the near future…
  22. Haha
    Anddenex reacted to askandanswer in I come quickly   
    Since Christ is coming quickly, we can rule out the possibility that He's coming on the 904 bus from downtown.
  23. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from laronius in I come quickly   
    When I think of this scripture a few things come to my mind. The first is when Christ said to Peter, paraphrased, "Before the cock crows thrice you will deny me thrice." The hour or time for this to come wasn't known but it did come quickly. In the moment, Peter could have easily seen what was happening, but it wasn't until the third crow that the prophesy did prick him.
    This highlights that members of the Church who are not read (prepared for) the signs of Christ coming will come as a thief in the night. Also, Peter did not believe this would be the case, so when the cock was crowing his mental state dismissed the first and the second. For some, they will dismiss the signs because they do not believe these are the signs.
    The second is that we are aware of a general assembly that will happen. We understand Adam will preside (if I'm remembering correctly) and Christ will come to his people at this assembly. These people will not be surprised as to the day and hour the Lord will come again. This brings back to my remembrance the words of Nephi when they were in a time of need and the Lord said, "Tomorrow I come into the world." (paraphrased)
    If we believe in the signs, if we have studied the signs, we will be watching and we will be prepared. The Spirit, like with Nephi, will bare witness of the Lord's return to those who are listening. To those who are not, it will be similar to the Nephites at Christ's first coming to them. The Spirit spoke (or the Father here) and they comprehended it not. Or like Amulek, who said something to this nature the Lord did call but I did not listen.
  24. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from JohnsonJones in I come quickly   
    When I think of this scripture a few things come to my mind. The first is when Christ said to Peter, paraphrased, "Before the cock crows thrice you will deny me thrice." The hour or time for this to come wasn't known but it did come quickly. In the moment, Peter could have easily seen what was happening, but it wasn't until the third crow that the prophesy did prick him.
    This highlights that members of the Church who are not read (prepared for) the signs of Christ coming will come as a thief in the night. Also, Peter did not believe this would be the case, so when the cock was crowing his mental state dismissed the first and the second. For some, they will dismiss the signs because they do not believe these are the signs.
    The second is that we are aware of a general assembly that will happen. We understand Adam will preside (if I'm remembering correctly) and Christ will come to his people at this assembly. These people will not be surprised as to the day and hour the Lord will come again. This brings back to my remembrance the words of Nephi when they were in a time of need and the Lord said, "Tomorrow I come into the world." (paraphrased)
    If we believe in the signs, if we have studied the signs, we will be watching and we will be prepared. The Spirit, like with Nephi, will bare witness of the Lord's return to those who are listening. To those who are not, it will be similar to the Nephites at Christ's first coming to them. The Spirit spoke (or the Father here) and they comprehended it not. Or like Amulek, who said something to this nature the Lord did call but I did not listen.
  25. Like
    Anddenex got a reaction from zil2 in I come quickly   
    When I think of this scripture a few things come to my mind. The first is when Christ said to Peter, paraphrased, "Before the cock crows thrice you will deny me thrice." The hour or time for this to come wasn't known but it did come quickly. In the moment, Peter could have easily seen what was happening, but it wasn't until the third crow that the prophesy did prick him.
    This highlights that members of the Church who are not read (prepared for) the signs of Christ coming will come as a thief in the night. Also, Peter did not believe this would be the case, so when the cock was crowing his mental state dismissed the first and the second. For some, they will dismiss the signs because they do not believe these are the signs.
    The second is that we are aware of a general assembly that will happen. We understand Adam will preside (if I'm remembering correctly) and Christ will come to his people at this assembly. These people will not be surprised as to the day and hour the Lord will come again. This brings back to my remembrance the words of Nephi when they were in a time of need and the Lord said, "Tomorrow I come into the world." (paraphrased)
    If we believe in the signs, if we have studied the signs, we will be watching and we will be prepared. The Spirit, like with Nephi, will bare witness of the Lord's return to those who are listening. To those who are not, it will be similar to the Nephites at Christ's first coming to them. The Spirit spoke (or the Father here) and they comprehended it not. Or like Amulek, who said something to this nature the Lord did call but I did not listen.