raven2

To each their own. 👍

What about the example they also set for us? I am sure there was a lot of ‘debate’ during Mose and the brass serpent event as well. Probably something along the line, ‘well he didn’t openly command us to look on the brass serpent, just urged us to do so. Also, Fred in the tent next to me heard from his tent neighbor that…’ But I also respect our individual agency.

Not trying turn this into a Covid thread but I think JohnsonJones statements has a lot of merit to the last days and to Noah’s time. Members and others are very good at justifying things that we don’t like or goes against our politic views. While the church has their general statement on vaccinations (which you posted). They made some very specific statements for Covid. Definition of urge - “try earnestly or persistently to persuade (someone) to do something.” “We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population. To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.” First Presidency Also “We are thankful for the countless doctors, scientists, researchers, manufacturers, government leaders, and others who have performed the grueling work required to make this vaccine available. We have prayed often for this literal godsend.“ President Nelson

Thank you for sharing your talk. Clearly the need to be prepared (grow) physically, mentally and spiritually are always something we should be doing. It’s is intertwined with the purpose of life, to become more like our Heavenly Father. I did find this statement interesting. “Today we still see the effects of tyrannical government behavior due to Covid restrictions and their impact on the local and world economy.” It might have been helpful to remind the Saints that part of being prepared (in these last days) is the willingness to not just listen to previous prophet’s, but to put aside earthly opinions and follow the direction and guidance from the living prophet. As Saints we could potentially help reduce Covid spread in our communities and it’s economic impacts by following the prophet and first presidency statements/actions on Covid. Using Covid as an opportunity to develop the ability to heed the direction of the living prophet will help us be more ready to heed future directions as additional challenges of the last days unfold.

I posted this in another thread but felt it fit here as well. Please forgive me for a double post. Presidents Oaks talk was loaded with knowledge and direction for these last days. From political affiliation (or the lack of it), being willing to change our political positions as needed, don’t follow a single political leader, and members can vote in different ways at different times and still be faithful Saints.  Most of all no politics at church and make the gospel teachings the center of life, not politics. If my Facebook feed and Deseret News comment section over the last few years is any indication, this talk just hit a lot of nerves.

President Nelson, Do all you can to bring Covid numbers down in your area so temples can reopen. I think the debate on where the church stands on the severity of COVID, mask wearing, vaccines, etc has gotten pretty clear. How about that moving list of more temples? What a way to end conference. All I could think of was, “We thank thee oh God for a Prophet to guide us in these later days.”

Presidents Oaks talk was loaded with knowledge and direction for these last days. From political affiliation (or the lack of it), being willing to change our political positions as needed, don’t follow a single political leader, and members can vote in different ways at different times and still be faithful Saints. Most of all no politics at church and make the gospel teachings the center of life, not politics. If my Facebook feed and Deseret News comment section over the last few years is any indication, this talk just hit a lot of nerves.

Even the crazy Washington Times retracted their article that Antifa was in the crowd. Many of the photos taken are of well know trumpers/right wing extremist. It is what it is. What makes this more shocking, in my opinion, is this was a direct assault on one of our 3 constitutional branches of government. No different than a mob storming the White House or Supreme Court. This is very different than a Target store being looted. Hopefully people on both sides have learned, over the last year or so, that protests are fine violence is not.

That time has already come.

Just out of curiosity. Are their stakes or wards going back to virtual only meeting in Utah or Idaho as COVID cases rise rapidly?

It appears that some local leaders are unfortunately making decisions based on personal political viewpoints. (I have seen that before.) I think this is on full display as the Area Authority in Utah asked members to wear a mask for the love of others. Yet so many members have ignored that request. Putting politics over religious guidance. I am sure some of this is unfortunately taking place with some local leaders. But, the gospel is true even if man/woman is fallible. I find it interesting that many are talking about how we are in the final days and signs of the time. But we get a sign with a worldwide pandemic and they say it can’t be real. It fake.

Our Stake started going back in June. (In one of the highest outbreaks and death rate States in the US.) Our ward met every week. They require mask but the Stake leadership even had everyone singing. Fast Forward to September. We received a new Stake Presidency and they immediately took all wards back to meeting 2 times a month, no singing and reduced the number allowed by about 30%. The area authority that attended the creation of the new Stake and Stake presidency had some interesting comments. One was we needed to get use to wearing mask, it was going to be a while before that need goes away. Second he asked members who were not attending church because they didn’t want to wear a mask, to reconsider their decision. Finally our previous Stake president had played pretty lose with the virus issues. He even had his mask off at times while sitting on the stand with the Area Authority. He quietly put his mask back on once the area authority made his comments above.

I know this thread is a little old but I did want to respond to this comment about the Hyde Park building. The church not only owns the building but the land it is on. There is no need for a ‘lease’. This would also mean that President Hinckley has no reason to be asked or to respond to a supposed question about the Hyde Park building, 2038 or its relationship to the Saviors second coming. “The Church bought the land for the Hyde Park building when not a single member lived within a seven-mile radius; the site had remained empty since being bombed in World War II.“ Source: Hyde Park building in London to be beacon of light, hope, truth to all the world - Church News July 13, 2012.

Some LDS thought on Revelation 13:16–17. The Mark of the Beast “In contrast to the righteous, who keep their covenants with God and receive His protecting seal on their foreheads (see Revelation 7:2–3; 14:1; 22:4; the commentary for Revelation 7:3; 9:4), the wicked who worship the beast “receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” (Revelation 13:16). This may symbolize that the wicked show by their actions (hands) and beliefs (heads) that they do the will of the beast and accept his ideology. However, the precise meaning of “the mark” has not been revealed.“ From the LDS New Testament Manual

Thanks for the response. I am trying to get to a point that I trust Heavenly Father more than my own knowledge or concerns. (Still lots to learn on this.) Of course this idea is nothing new with the followers of Heavenly Father throughout the generations of humanity or even our pre earth life as well. 1/3 of all of our brothers and sisters didn’t trust him enough out of fear, pride, etc to even make it to mortal life.