Should I warn this young woman??

[RainofGold]

I work with the young women at church and my daughter is the laurel president. She is the oldest of all the girls and she sees them as her little sisters.

I don't know how much I can get involved without putting anyones reputation on jeopardy, and protecting one of the young from getting hurt.

This guy is friends with my daughter he is from our ward, well he has shared some things with her that bothered me and I told her to stay away from him. He told her that he was addicted to pornography, that he drinks when he goes out, he curses and he hates church rules. He is a convert so I understand that to boys out there some of this things are considered normal. He told my daughter that the bishop is already aware of his problems. I don't know how much of this is true, I just know that as a mom I wouldn't want my daughter dating him. He asked her to go to homecoming but she said no. Just today I learned that he asked a young women from our ward to homecoming and that they are going out, as a young women leader I feel like I should say something.

Should I warned this young women? Or her parents? He is her first "boyfriend"and she is a sweet, quiet, shy girl and I'm afraid that he might want to take advantage of her. I asked the young women president but I wanted to get some advice from you guys on what is the right thing to do.

Thank you

Rainofgold

Edited October 17, 2008 by RainofGold

[Gwen]

being yw's pres i think there would be some concern of confidentiality.... however he told your daughter not you and i assume she told you as mom not yw's pres so it isn't really a conflict with the calling.....

how well does your daughter know her? could she tell her?

i know when i was in yw's and even the ysa program we would do the girl talk thing after dances and share what we knew about the guys, good or bad. always looking out for each other. i think it's important for the girls to be honest with each other, not talking about gossip but a private between her and the girl. it's ok for one yw to help another.

as yw's pres remind all the girls constantly about group dates, the standards and when to know when to call a date off and call mom, dad, or even you for a ride home. when i was in yw's i always knew my leaders door and phone were always open to me no matter what. if i wasn't calling home they would have wanted me to call them. it was always a comfort for me.

[NeuroTypical]

as a young women leader I feel like I should say something.

...

I asked the young women president

Since you're acting in the rold of YW leader, I vote the following: Either do what your YW president says, or take it up a notch to the Bishop, and then do what he says.

...

The more I put myself in this teen girl's parent's shoes, the more I hope one of the three of you would decide to talk to me.

LM

[Hemidakota]

Follow LM advise.

[RainofGold]

Since you're acting in the rold of YW leader, I vote the following: Either do what your YW president says, or take it up a notch to the Bishop, and then do what he says.

...

The more I put myself in this teen girl's parent's shoes, the more I hope one of the three of you would decide to talk to me.

LM

Thank you for your advice, I think that if I don't hear from the YW president I will bring it up to the bishop. He seems to look after the girls like if they were his own. Maybe because he has four little boys he has a soft heart for the girls.

I should say something before homecoming??

I know that I would be thankful if some one warned my daughter about a boy that seem to be trouble.

Thanks, again.:p

Rain

[MormonGirl28]

As a young women I would expect my young women leaders to be looking out for me.

Mormongirl

[ruthiechan]

Thank you for your advice, I think that if I don't hear from the YW president I will bring it up to the bishop. He seems to look after the girls like if they were his own. Maybe because he has four little boys he has a soft heart for the girls.

I should say something before homecoming??

I know that I would be thankful if some one warned my daughter about a boy that seem to be trouble.

Thanks, again.:p

Rain

YES. Say something BEFORE homecoming! Please. Because who knows how far things'll go in the mean time? The more time she spends with him and likes him the more heart broken she'll be when the truth comes out.

[MorningStar]

Hmm. I'm kind of torn. What if you warn her, she brings it up with him, and he lies to her, saying that he is a victim of rumors, and then that drives them even closer? How well do you know her? Maybe it would be best to discuss this with her parents and they can talk to her. If this were a boy repentant of this thing, I would hope people would stay out of it and give him a chance at happiness.

[MrsHart]

Eeeek! If I were you, I would find a way to tell her, because I would hate to see a poor innocent girl get taken advantage of.

[bytor2112]

Maybe he's trying to change....maybe she's trying to help him. Intervening could drive him out of the church. Perhaps the Bishop will speak with them and what about trusting the girl? We are after all talking about a teen.......lots of members have done worse and have changed and we probably don't have a clue who these people are....and rightly so.

[Guest SisterofJared]

IS the poor innocent girl mentally retarded or just spinelessly unable to prevent herself from being pulled into sin against her will?

I see there is some reason for concern, but I am also thinking that young man is a child of God, too, and he needs to be embraced by the lds youth, not treated as a leper. He says he has shared his problem with the bishop. So you should be able to discuss your concern with the bishop without painting him black in the eye of some whose friendship he would value.

The flat reality is the number 1 issue bishops deal with today is pornography. And this among good men. It is a powerful tool used by satan, who seeks to destroy the very elite. This young man fought shoulder to shoulder with us in the war in heaven, and needs love and support... he is a fallen comrade, would we leave him to die of his injuries? I think rather than paint the poor kid black, you should more vigorously teach chastity and virtue, and give the young women more tools to use to strengthen them. You're not going to be able to walk behind them their whole lives, beating back anyone who might challenge their standards. Therefore, teach them tools that they can call upon at all time, especially when no one else is there to help them.

The fact that he was a convert shows that at some time he must have felt the attraction of the gospel. Instead of keeping the boy away, he needs those that will help him find that again, through fellowship, love and acceptance and many invitations to join in.

I have six daughter who are active, and two sons that are inactive. Both of these sons drink. My younger son has a pierced ear and a tattoo. Not the typical mormon boy at all. But you know what? He is hungry to be fully loved and accepted, and the women who looks past the tattoo into his heart will find a good man who will work hard for her, dote on their children, and quickly become active in the gospel. Sometimes people just need to feel the love.

Sister of Jared.

[ztodd]

IS the poor innocent girl mentally retarded or just spinelessly unable to prevent herself from being pulled into sin against her will?

I agree with the rest of your post, but this part seemed kind of mean.

I can see from the rest of your post that you know that we need to be cautious of the people we hang around with and the influence they can have on us. If the goal of a young woman is to keep herself clean and virtuous and to one day marry in the temple to a man who honors his covenants and also keeps himself clean and worthy, then I would not counsel her to start dating someone who is not on that path, whether it be a missionary effort or otherwise.

I understand your concern for your boys and your desire for them to have good influences in their lives as well - and I hope people are willing to reach out and embrace those who need it. But it is possible to be friends and be a good influence on people without getting romantically involved or putting yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.

[Wingnut]

IS the poor innocent girl mentally retarded or just spinelessly unable to prevent herself from being pulled into sin against her will?

I find this statement quite offensive, especially considering that the young women that is going to homecoming with the young man in question doesn't know about his struggles (at least the OP hasn't indicated that she does).

[Wingnut]

I going to go out on a limb here and say that just because he's addicted to pornography doesn't mean that he should be shunned, excluded, or treated much differently. Cautiously, yes. But it doesn't make him a terrible horrible person, and it's very possible (heck, even likely), that he'll turn out okay in the end.

Playing a little Devil's advocate...

[RainofGold]

IS the poor innocent girl mentally retarded or just spinelessly unable to prevent herself from being pulled into sin against her will?

No, she is not mentally retarded, she is a bright young women that was inactive for two years and just came back to the church about 5 months ago. She is also, shy, quiet, sweet, and soft spoken.

I feel that there are other ways to be a good influence to this young man without having to date him.

If I don't want my daughter to go out with him, why would I find it okay for somebody's else daughter to date him?

And I do understand that he is a child of God, nobody is making him feel like an outsider. He is part of the youth group and they do a lot of activities together. I guess I just take it more personal because this yw is my daughters age, and it would make me feel very responsible if something bad would happen to her. She just turned 16 and has never dated before, if she was 18 or 19 it would be a different story.

Rain:p

[MrsHart]

No, she is not mentally retarded, she is a bright young women that was inactive for two years and just came back to the church about 5 months ago. She is also, shy, quiet, sweet, and soft spoken.

I feel that there are other ways to be a good influence to this young man without having to date him.

If I don't want my daughter to go out with him, why would I find it okay for somebody's else daughter to date him?

And I do understand that he is a child of God, nobody is making him feel like an outsider. He is part of the youth group and they do a lot of activities together. I guess I just take it more personal because this yw is my daughters age, and it would make me feel very responsible if something bad would happen to her. She just turned 16 and has never dated before, if she was 18 or 19 it would be a different story.

Rain:p

Rain, I absolutely agree with you. There are ways to help someone, and even be their friend, without having to date them. MAYBE he's trying to change himself. MAYBE he's seeking help. Maybe, maybe, maybe. All speculations. All we know is that this young woman may get hurt if she dates him. Or maybe she won't, but it is totally not worth the risk. Once the damage is done, it's difficult, if not impossible, to undo. It's all about being proactive.

[Guest SisterofJared]

Okay, I agree my "retarded" comment was over the top. I was feeling somewhat frustrated. Do you have any idea how hard it is for a youth to be marginally accepted....as a seminary teacher, I used to see kids all the time who formed little clicks and didn't let many kids be part of the group. I saw kids struggle and give up, drop out of seminary and by the end of the year the rumors were going around about how the kid was doing this or doing that. I saw girls and boys judged continually by their own peers. And I saw so many hungry for some approval and love and acceptance. I also was blessed to see some respond to overtures of friendship.

There is dating and there is dating. How do you mean the term? Sometimes "dating" means going steady, "hooking up", being boyfriend and girlfriend. Sometimes dating means going places together, hanging out, laughing and having a good time. Homecoming is a football game and a dance. I see nothing harmful with a young girl going to a football game and a dance. I think if there is a concern, there are much better ways to handle it than to keep away from the boy. You asked "If I don't want my daughter to go out with him, why would I find it okay for somebody's else daughter to date him?"

My question is.... who is he supposed to date. Not your daughter, not someone else's daughter... who? Shall we send him off only with girls who would drag him deeper and deeper into sin and degradation? If there is a concern, why not a concerted plan to help? How about double-dating with another lds couple who know and embrace standards? How about providing a great party at your house for all the kids after the dance?

Keeping the girl away from THIS boy on homecoming. may protect her for the one night of homecoming. Reinforcing training on chastity and virtue and giving her tool protects her for many nights. And embracing the boy and helping him find his way to fellowship, to understanding gospel principles and the value of chastity protects her, him, and untold numbers of other dates in the future. It might even help one of father's children into the Celestial Kingdom one day. Perhaps the young man will serve a mission, and then bring others to the light, who then pass it along. The good you do by helping him will have unmeasurable value.

I apologize for my frustration leading me to scarcasm. Thanks for calling me on it. I'll try to be nicer, but if I go nuts again, feel free to let me know.

Sister of Jared

[jimuk]

This guy is friends with my daughter he is from our ward, well he has shared some things with her that bothered me and I told her to stay away from him. He told her that he was addicted to pornography, that he drinks when he goes out, he curses and he hates church rules. He is a convert so I understand that to boys out there some of this things are considered normal. He told my daughter that the bishop is already aware of his problems. I don't know how much of this is true, I just know that as a mom I wouldn't want my daughter dating him. He asked her to go to homecoming but she said no. Just today I learned that he asked a young women from our ward to homecoming and that they are going out, as a young women leader I feel like I should say something.

Should I warned this young women? Or her parents? He is her first "boyfriend"and she is a sweet, quiet, shy girl and I'm afraid that he might want to take advantage of her. I asked the young women president but I wanted to get some advice from you guys on what is the right thing to do.

Thank you

Rainofgold

Hi there Rainofgold.

I know that you are not looking to cause any contention in your post, and i do understand your concerns for the young woman involved. But and there is a but lol.

I am a convert myself, and i see nothing that would make a "convert" any different than somebody born into the church, so i see no need for the reference to the fact that the guy is a convert at all, i feel a little hurt when i hear or read these things about converts, i feel that you think that this makes him not worthy or less worthy a person that is born into the church, if so you are wrong along with anyone else who thinks this way.

Next, So this guy is looking at "Porn", yes we know it is wrong, we are told so by our leaders, you do not need a degree in anything to work that one out, but even if we werent told we would know anyway.

This does not make him a Rapist or somebody that is looking to prey on anyones daughter, he has his own outlets irrespective of how bad they are for his spiritual well being .

He is going to church, this in itself is an achievement, it shows that he is on the right road.

There are sections on these very forums where people are actively talking about these same problems that this young guy has, and from what i read, none of these guys are "converts".

[Elgama]

I would leave it to the leaders and see she may just go to the homecoming with him, again I don't think being a convert is relevent in my experience teens in the church can behave badly regardless of being converts or not. You also don't know what the girl is already aware of.

-Charley

[jimuk]

This guy is friends with my daughter he is from our ward, well he has shared some things with her that bothered me and I told her to stay away from him. He told her that he was addicted to pornography, that he drinks when he goes out, he curses and he hates church rules. He is a convert so I understand that to boys out there some of this things are considered normal. He told my daughter that the bishop is already aware of his problems. I don't know how much of this is true, I just know that as a mom I wouldn't want my daughter dating him. He asked her to go to homecoming but she said no. Just today I learned that he asked a young women from our ward to homecoming and that they are going out, as a young women leader I feel like I should say something.

Should I warned this young women? Or her parents? He is her first "boyfriend"and she is a sweet, quiet, shy girl and I'm afraid that he might want to take advantage of her. I asked the young women president but I wanted to get some advice from you guys on what is the right thing to do.

Thank you

Rainofgold

Hi there Rainofgold.

I know that you are not looking to cause any contention in your post, and i do understand your concerns for the young woman involved. But and there is a but lol.

I am a convert myself, and i see nothing that would make a "convert" any different than somebody born into the church, so i see no need for the reference to the fact that the guy is a convert at all, i feel a little hurt when i hear or read these things about converts, i feel that you think that this makes him not worthy or less worthy a person that is born into the church, if so you are wrong along with anyone else who thinks this way.

Next, So this guy is looking at "Porn", yes we know it is wrong, we are told so by our leaders, you do not need a degree in anything to work that one out, but even if we werent told we would know anyway.

This does not make him a Rapist or somebody that is looking to prey on anyones daughter, he has his own outlets irrespective of how bad they are for his spiritual well being .

He is going to church, this in itself is an achievement, it shows that he is on the right road.

There are sections on these very forums where people are actively talking about these same problems that this young guy has, and from what i read, none of these guys are "converts".

[Misshalfway]

Rain,

There is something about this thread that is bothering me.

I see that you care about your YW. I see that you want your daughter to hang around the "right" kind of friends. I see that you worry about this other girl and don't want something "awful" to happen to her. I see the motives behind this whole thread as a parent and a leader trying to do what is right to protect the children.

I am struggling because none of us knows that heart of this young man. So he confides in your daughter about his struggles and some of his unpleasant feelings.....and your first reaction is that you want him away from your D. What is it about this boy you don't like exactly? That he has struggles? That he has an addiction? There is a whole side of me that wants to defend this kid and his right to find a trusted friend to tell these things to. But maybe this guy is looking for more trouble and may use such conversations as emotional manipulations. I just don't know. Do you honestly know one way or the other? Does your D feel uncomfortable around him? Why did your D confide in you about the issue? To get your advise or to tell you she was worried about her safety when she was around him? Or did she really feel like he needed friendship and support and was looking to you for guidance in how to best provide that?

I don't know. The whole go to the bishop thing bothers me. Maybe it wouldn't if I felt you were going to him for counsel and spirit. But I don't like that the bishop is being pulled into the situation to police it. This is sensitive information you now have about this boy and I think for ALL the children involved, you need to get it right.

I don't know if it is your right to expose this boy to the other parent. I don't know if you should do anything at all! I mean why do you have to get involved? If anything, perhaps a conservative heads up to the other parent. BTW, is the other parent trustworthy?

I don't know what to do. I am not there. I can't feel the energy or spirit from these kids. Part of me thinks you should talk to the other parent, but that you qualify your remarks with the possibility that you could be absolutely wrong about him.

Follow the Spirit. And be conservative in your judgments until you know more. Children who are into porn are children who are in pain....and sin yes. But, perspective and understanding work better for you than panic. What if these YW help him? What if he is looking for help but doesn't know what to do with all of his emotions? I don't know. I feel such compassion for him. But if he is a destructive type, you do have a responsibility to create a shield.

I really think that the Spirit is the only thing that can guide you on this one. I am confident that there is a path that can protect ALL the children involved.

This post is probably not helpful at all. Maybe I am just saying that I understand how you may be feeling conflicted.

BTW, keep in mind that every person you ask for advise is now another person exposed to this boys secret. How awful if he found out that one conversation with your D, turned into a whole ward knowing! The last thing he needs is to feel like a leper. And the last example the YW need to see is parents panicking and over reacting and teaching them how to shun the sinner like mormons are sometimes so good at doing based upon one conversation that you weren't even present to hear.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Elgama]

MissH I think you are amazing and yes you have pin pointed how I felt and wasn't brave enough to state - I think our Youth need people you can trust I know as Primary President, each one of my parents appreciated their children had someone who wasn't their parent but who could give them adult advice - I think its very important they have people they can go to for advice

I to had an addiction to porn before my baptism, I'm a middle aged woman and I still sometimes find it difficult to walk away from and have briefly slipped up at times since I have the confidence now to talk about it but as a teen it would have been a big deal to admit. And I think its wrong to make the assumption the girl doesn't know if you do want to tackle maybe talk to the young man yourself.

-Charley

[Wingnut]

Halfers, I wish I could thank you three times.

[WANDERER]

My two cents: is this boy a minor? I can think of some very good reasons not to cross the line and chat to minors about such things.

[applepansy]

As a mom with adult children, there were times I wish somebody had told me what was going on with my children. Instead I found out after huge problems had arisen.

I believe each situation is different and should be approached after prayer. . . and if needed counsel from the Bishop. Always ask. . . What would Christ do? And What would I want to know if I was the parents of either child.

Putting the names of everyone involved on the temple prayer roll is also appropirate.

applepansy

Edited October 18, 2008 by applepansy