Way too much power


bytor2112
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“If in the future, banks need exceptional assistance in order to get through this, then we will make sure that assistance comes,” while ensuring taxpayers are protected, Geithner said yesterday in an interview on the CBS “Face the Nation” program. “Where that requires a change in management and the board, then we will do that.”

- Tim Geitner
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????? NO LW, I would rather that our government NOT have the authority to determine who sits in a position of management and who sits on the Board of Directors. Are you comfortable with this? You shouldn't be.

Actually I'm more worried that people in a corporations high management are accountable to virtually no one (that can't be placated by a well placed bribe or bonus) and hold the fate of millions of people in their greedy hands. Perhaps it is the corporations themselves that have way too much power?

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Actually I'm more worried that people in a corporations high management are accountable to virtually no one (that can't be placated by a well placed bribe or bonus) and hold the fate of millions of people in their greedy hands. Perhaps it is the corporations themselves that have way too much power?

So, you trust greedy politicians more? Corporations are accountable to their shareholders. The laws that allowed these corporations to reek havoc on our economy were passed by our elected leaders and when you get right down to it, the people who borrowed money to buy over valued property that they didn't have the means to pay back should own a large slice of the blame.

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I've always been a supporter of people living the American Dream, but the American Dream is way out of hand. CEO's and top executives are paid way too much -- FAR more than ANYONE deserves. A big part of me hopes that the current turn of events will see that injustice sort itself out, but I doubt it.

But I think that the example of Ford can be very instructive. You can decide to NOT take federal money and go solve your own problems.

If you're taking Federal money, be prepared to have politically motivated attacks on your upper execs. Be prepared to be messed with, generally. If you didn't anticipate that going in, you're not very bright. If you want your top brass to NOT be thrown under a microscope, then don't take the money from the Federal Government. If you're company is in such terrible shape that you have no choice, then is it quite likely that poor management is to blame. If the potential for the government meddling with banks and corporations does nothing else, I hope it discourages companies from taking the government's money and it encourages them to pay back and regain their freedom from government meddling.

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So, you trust greedy politicians more? Corporations are accountable to their shareholders. The laws that allowed these corporations to reek havoc on our economy were passed by our elected leaders and when you get right down to it, the people who borrowed money to buy over valued property that they didn't have the means to pay back should own a large slice of the blame.

And politicians are accountable to their voters... either way it is a large corrupt entity with very little actual accountability. I have no problem with letting businesses fail under their own crappy business models, but I also am having a hard time caring when the government asks someone to step down. Perhaps it's just my apathy, but getting worked up over which large corrupt entity actually has control just doesn't do it for me.

Corporations influence laws and politicians with lobbyists and politicians throw the management of corporations under the bus when the crap really hits the fan. Maybe it is some kind of unintentional check/balance system.

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I've always been a supporter of people living the American Dream, but the American Dream is way out of hand. CEO's and top executives are paid way too much -- FAR more than ANYONE deserves. A big part of me hopes that the current turn of events will see that injustice sort itself out, but I doubt it.

Sigh. Another one bites the dust. You guys need to stop buying all this crap they're selling you. "The CEO made 5 million dollars in one day. It's greed I tell ya, GREED!".

That's the great thing about pure capitalism without statist intervention - you can make as much money as people are willing to purchase your product for. Nobody can dictate when enough fortune has been gained. That's the true dream - to be all you can be and be free to choose your destiny according to the free agency that was awarded to all of us by God from birth.

A corrupt business, or even an unwise business, will go down. That's how capitalism separates the greedy and the non-deserving from their money. Bailing it out is preventing that natural progression to happen. Then brainwashing an entire population to castigate high earners - regardless if they earned it justifiably or not - well, then you get somebody like Faded. Hope you come to see the folly of such thinking, my friend.

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Power corrupts whether it be in business or government. We have a lot of recent examples of this. What should bother everyone is apparant impunity that exists for those caught stealing or making bad business decisions at taxpayers expense. Either way, we the taxpayer/employees end up with the affects of this behavior. I have witnessed greed and unethicial behavior at all levels of business and government so I don't think that just executives are guilty.

For me, it makes a great witness for term limits in politics, tougher enforced laws for mischievious behavior, and mandatory prison sentences for blue and white collar crime. The Boards of thes huge companies should also be held accountable and given stiff penalties when these business break the law.

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There was an easy way for the corporate bigwigs to avoid this: Don't let the government become a shareholder by accepting government money.

Our government was wrong to offer the money. The corporations were short-sighted to accept it.

(In other threads, Bytor, you've hinted that some banks were forced to take TARP money. I'd be a little more troubled if I knew this were in fact the case. Do you have any links?)

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????? NO LW, I would rather that our government NOT have the authority to determine who sits in a position of management and who sits on the Board of Directors. Are you comfortable with this? You shouldn't be.

Are you suggesting that the folks, who have run their businesses aground and looted its coffers for their bonuses, not be subject to review when they are soaking up tax dollars? Should we be comfortable with anything less than this?

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Are you suggesting that the folks, who have run their businesses aground and looted its coffers for their bonuses, not be subject to review when they are soaking up tax dollars? Should we be comfortable with anything less than this?

Mis-conception #1:

Getting a bonus is "looting the coffers".

If you've worked anywhere in high management, you will know that your compensation is part yearly rate and part performance bonus. Performance bonus is your own personal accomplishment of your job, not the overall performance of the company. This is also true for commission-based jobs - the most popular example of which is a waitress. A waitress is paid below-minimum wage and then gets a "bonus" in the form of tips - which is a performance fee. The Restaurant could be a shoddy place in the brink of bankruptcy with corruption up the yin-yang, but a good waitress in such a place would still make good tips, and is DESERVING of such tips.

So, how did "bonus" equal "looting"? Ask yourself where you heard about it - if it is somewhere on TV or the internet, then you need to expand your understanding of corporate America and not be easily led by the nose by popular media, parroting everything they feed you without independent thought!

Mis-conception #2:

A company taking tax dollars is subject to government control.

If you understand how corporate shares is structured, you will realize that the only way you get controlling interest in a company is if you become a controlling shareholder, usually gained when you have the highest number of shares in the company, or if your shares reach a certain percent of overall shares.

If a PRIVATE company has lost so much of its shares to the government in such a way that allows the government to gain controlling interest (with the power to dictate compensation or corporate structure), then the government would now "own" it. This would be the end of capitalism and the free market as we know it. I, for one, am glad this is not YET the case. Although, with the auto industry giving power to the government to dictate it's corporate structure, we are very close to it.

First and foremost, our tax dollars has no place in private businesses unless it is in the form of investments - i.e. Social Security investments and the like.

I don't care if you're democrat, republican, libertarian, or independent. You need to understand what made the American economic structure the best in the world. You need to understand basic economics. Right now, the way I see it, Americans are like ex-mormons. They fall away from the church because they don't know enough about it so that when some popular media tells them mormons are racists because they didn't allow blacks to be priests until the 70's, they nod their heads and say, you're right!

Rise above the bullcrap they are feeding you!

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Why do you think that folks should recieve bonuses when the company is failing... I do not see the logic here....... If uppermanagement wasn't so overpaid and overcompensated mabey the company wouldn't be failing...... No one bailed out Enron or Tyco because of gross mismanagement... I do no think the goovernment should have done it......

Edited by prospectmom
keyboard is changing letters...:]
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Are you suggesting that the folks, who have run their businesses aground and looted its coffers for their bonuses, not be subject to review when they are soaking up tax dollars? Should we be comfortable with anything less than this?

Not at all. I am all for asking company's who receive tax dollars to forgo excessive bonuses. You do understand don't you, that a great deal of executive compensation is tied to bonuses? In other words, certain compensation packages include a base salary and bonuses tied to performance. So, I am not for eliminating bonuses completely, even when the company receives tax money....considering for some it may be the majority of their compensation.

What I am saying is that the government should not have the right to become the Board of Directors and decide who the CEO of a company should or should not be. That kind of government control is dangerous and threatens the very system that has made this country great.

It is fascinating and scary to watch as the imbeciles in congress grand stand about an economic problem that they were the great architects of. Do you feel like these idiots in congress deserve the money that they receive from tax payers? How will we grade the congress for there out of control spending and reckless stewardship of our tax dollars ....nearly three trillion dollars in bailouts? We spew venom towards AIG executives for receiving bonuses promised to them by our government....President Obama included and they pretend they didn't know??? I think it rather foolish to hold business execs more accountable than we do politicians who spend our money like it is monopoly money.

Edited by bytor2112
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It is fascinating and scary to watch as the imbeciles in congress grand stand about an economic problem that they were the great architects of. Do you feel like these idiots in congress deserve the money that they receive from tax payers? How will we grade the congress for there out of control spending and reckless stewardship of our tax dollars ....nearly three trillion dollars in bailouts? We spew venom towards AIG executives for receiving bonuses promised to them by our government....President Obama included and they pretend they didn't know??? I think it rather foolish to hold business execs more accountable than we do politicians who spend our money like it is monopoly money.

You got it, but unfortunately they are good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes!

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And this is one reason why I will never discuss politics amongst most Mormons. I'd get shouted down, told I'm following the devil and that I'm not a real Mormon. So far, I haven't been told that here, but I'm sure it will come soon enough. ;)

I know it's so funny, yet who controls politics in this world?? I have a feeling it isn't the Lord(yet). So we all may be guilty of following the devil in an ironic way really anyway supporting politics LOL.

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You can't ignore and put off the "law of the harvest" forever. You reap what you sow . . . governments reap what they sow. . .and so do banks.

applepansy

This is why I believe as you do, we cannot be printing money where there is no money in the coffers. Eventually, the government will fail [You reap what you sow].

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And this is one reason why I will never discuss politics amongst most Mormons. I'd get shouted down, told I'm following the devil and that I'm not a real Mormon. So far, I haven't been told that here, but I'm sure it will come soon enough. ;)

Beck, you are following the devil and you're not a real Mormon.

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And this is one reason why I will never discuss politics amongst most Mormons. I'd get shouted down, told I'm following the devil and that I'm not a real Mormon. So far, I haven't been told that here, but I'm sure it will come soon enough. ;)

So, how do you determine which Mormon is enlightened enough to engage you in political discourse? How do you spot those fellow Devil followers??? :eek:

Edited by bytor2112
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