The worst sins

[the Ogre]

When I was in highschool, I took a survey in seminary that asked about the worst sins. It listed twenty different sins. The survey was very clever. When the results came back I was very surprised. So were the teachers.

That survey was back in 1984. The worst sin was not denying the witness of the holy-ghost. I am not going to tell you what the kids back then picked because it could skew the above quiz.

That was 25 years ago, I wonder if things have changed. These are some of the categories, but I deleted the more obvious ones for a more mature audience. It would be a no-brainer for most of us.

If you could, elaborate on your answer.

Edited May 21, 2009 by the Ogre

[bytor2112]

What are the categories?

[bytor2112]

Strike that question.....didn't see poll.

[bytor2112]

Putting down others. We really do damage when we are uncharitable and insulting. It is so difficult to mend the damage done by mocking and ostracizing.

[Faded]

Sexual sin is second only to murder and denying the Holy Ghost. Flirting with sexual sin is the logical choice.

Incidentally, when we were introduced to "For the Strength of Youth" I always wondered what the heck "necking" and "petting" were. Why on Earth is this verbiage used when nobody on this planet uses those terms to refer to groping and giving/getting hickeys??? Frankly, it wasn't until I was accused of necking for giving my girlfriend several hickeys that I put two and two together. "OHHHH so that's what they meant by 'necking'!!!" Petting makes me think of petting the top of someones head like a person might pet a dog. Again, not a term anyone ever uses. The leaders presenting FTSOY did not bother to explain much of any specifics of course.

[the Ogre]

. . . The leaders presenting FTSOY did not bother to explain much of any specifics of course.

Yeah, I think the church is depending on youth leaders a bit more than they are comfortable with. I remember going over it with my kids when the book first came out. When they "got it", they explained it to the other youth to the consternation of some of those leaders.

[martybess]

From lds.org

"The Lord and His prophets condemn sexual immorality. The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder and denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:3–5). All sexual relations outside of marriage violate the law of chastity and are physically and spiritually dangerous for those who engage in them."

[ploomf]

See I was really really torn between the necking/petting option and the spreading rumors option. On the one hand sexual sin is really serious but when it comes right down to it, it really only affects you and your partner. Spreading rumors on the other hand can really hurt the person you're spreading rumors about and once you start spreading rumors you can't take them back, they spread and grow and always seem to get back to the victim and while you can repent of both sins you can't make those rumors magically disappear. So while logically I know the sexual sin is more serious the spreading rumors just feels worse to me.

[bytebear]

I chose spreading rumors, because it is bearing false witness, and is in the top 10. Necking leads to adultery, but isn't there yet.

[Jim108]

There is no such thing as worst sin. All sin is an abomination. Sin either is or is not. When we start to rank sin we start to legalize our relation with God and things start to get mucked up and fuzzy. Thank you Jesus for washing the believers clean.

[the Ogre]

There is no such thing as worst sin. All sin is an abomination. Sin either is or is not. When we start to rank sin we start to legalize our relation with God and things start to get mucked up and fuzzy. Thank you Jesus for washing the believers clean.

Jim, thanks for the opportunity to point something out specific to LDS doctrine. Latter-day Saints believe the ultimate sin is denying the given-witness of J-sus Chr-st by the H-ly Gh-st. It is a difficult sin to commit. According to LDS thought, one must have a witness much like that of Nephi in 1 Ne 11:

6 And when I had spoken these words, the Spirit cried with a loud voice, saying: Hosanna to the Lord, the most high God; for he is God over all the earth, yea, even above all. And blessed art thou, Nephi, because thou believest in the Son of the most high God; wherefore, thou shalt behold the things which thou hast desired.

7 And behold this thing shall be given unto thee for a sign, that after thou hast beheld the tree which bore the fruit which thy father tasted, thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God.

13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?

15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.

21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! . . .

24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God agoing forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

27 And I looked and beheld the Redeemer of the world, of whom my father had spoken; and I also beheld the prophet who should prepare the way before him. And the Lamb of God went forth and was baptized of him; and after he was baptized, I beheld the heavens open, and the Holy Ghost come down out of heaven and abide upon him in the form of a dove.

It is a very difficult sin to commit, however there are those who have. It is as extreme a situation as looking into the blazing heat of the noon-day sun and denying that it is there.

(sorry about the long post)

[Faded]

There is no such thing as worst sin. All sin is an abomination. Sin either is or is not. When we start to rank sin we start to legalize our relation with God and things start to get mucked up and fuzzy. Thank you Jesus for washing the believers clean.

If the Scriptures teach us that there is "the unforgivable sin" and that all other sins can be forgiven, then there certainly does seem to be a "worst sin." The worst sin is the one that you can't ever be forgiven for. That does establish one sin to be unequal. I think it follows that there are degrees of bad in the eyes of God.

Mark 3:28-29

[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

[29] But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Matthew 12:31-32

[31] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

[32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

A man who murders his entire family has offended God to a much greater degree than a man who stole a package of chewing gum from the grocery store. Both have committed sin, but there's a big difference between the two. I think everyone can agree that one is worse than the other. I think it would be a very strange God indeed who would count these two sins as equal.

I'm amazed that spreading gossip is winning this thing. It's a bad thing certainly, but flirting with sexual sin and abusing the God given procreative powers is laid right out in Alma as the worst sin that we can commit (after murder and denying the Holy Ghost.) I know that one survey of this sort saw the Word of Wisdom violations win out over fornication. Interesting to see where the results will end up.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Faded

[Moksha]

Of Ogre's list, the spreading rumors part is fairly well covered in the Ten Commandments. Since it was a finite list I will not attempt to add other items, however I do think Ogre made a glaring omission with leaving out both Multilevel Marketing and adding cucumbers to Jell-O.

[Dr T]

I think the unforgivable sin that cannot be covered by Jesus is when a person has been presented the good news and they knowingly reject it. It would basically be when somebody never has the saving grace and calling what is good bad in that case.

[Moksha]

Necking leads to adultery, but isn't there yet.

However, you know what they say about that at BYU. Oops, forgot about spreading rumors....

[the Ogre]

Of Ogre's list, the spreading rumors part is fairly well covered in the Ten Commandments. Since it was a finite list I will not attempt to add other items, however I do think Ogre made a glaring omission with leaving out both Multilevel Marketing and adding cucumbers to Jell-O.

Oh my, definite sins of the RS home-making meeting gone dangerously awry (almost as bad as carrots and raisins in jello and Republican Party organizing).

Very dang funny, thank you so very much.

[Faded]

I think the unforgivable sin that cannot be covered by Jesus is when a person has been presented the good news and they knowingly reject it. It would basically be when somebody never has the saving grace and calling what is good bad in that case.

I compiled and posted it all in the other thread about Denying the Holy Ghost. Since I went to all that trouble once, I don't think I'll do it again. Magical copy and paste time:

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Here is a collection of what we know about how far you have to go to deny the Holy Ghost and commit the unforgivable sin.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:32-35,43

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:27

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

2Nephi 31:14

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

Alma 39:6

6 For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable;

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

The three degrees of glory provide eternal homes for the vast majority of God’s children who merited earth life. There is a fourth destination, however, for those “comparatively few” who cannot abide even a telestial glory. The Lord explains that the destiny of the sons of perdition is a kingdom without glory (see D&C 88:24), and “the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows,” only those “ordained unto this condemnation” (see D&C 76:43–49). These are they who “cannot repent.” They “sin against the Holy Ghost” and “put Christ to open shame.” (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 1:47–49.)

“All who partake of this, the greatest of sins, sell themselves as did Cain to Lucifer. They learn to hate the truth with an eternal hatred, and they learn to love wickedness. They reach a condition where they cannot repent. The spirit of murder fills their hearts and they would, if they had the power, crucify our Lord again, which they virtually do by fighting his work and seeking to destroy it and his prophets. …

“Before a man can sink to this bitterness of soul, he must first know and understand the truth with a clearness of vision wherein there is no doubt. The Change of heart does not come all at once, but is due to transgression in some form, which continues to lurk in the soul without repentance, until the Holy Ghost withdraws, and then that man is left to spiritual darkness. Sin begets sin; the darkness grows until the love of truth turns to hatred, and the love of God is overcome by the wicked desire to destroy all that is just and true. In this way Christ is put to open shame, and blasphemy exalted.

“How fortunate it is that in the mercy of God there will be comparatively few who will partake of this awful misery and eternal darkness.” (Ibid, p. 49.)

Thus, hell has an end for all consigned to it except the sons of perdition. They alone remain in a hell which has no end.

So a couple of quick checks to find out if you have committed the unpardonable sin:

1.) Have you received an absolutely undeniable witness of the reality of God and Christ?

2.) After having that powerful witness from God, have you turned wholeheartedly against God to the point that you despise Him? Do you despise everything that is good? Do you thirst for the blood of the innocent and are you willing to commit any such murder you can get away with? Do you seek to destroy and distort all eternal truth?

3.) Would you cheerfully crucify our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, laughing all the while as you pound in the nails, if you were given the opportunity?

If you can answer all three in the affirmative, then you've committed the unforgivable sin.

[Maya]

I did not read the other answers so sorry if.... just wanted to say my IMHO. Sinn against the HS is ofcourse the worst and next are the sexual sins, worst of them beeing those where you take away or loose something that can never be replaced.

However on your list I chose Putting others down. I think that does so much damage to people and it just makes me see red... has always made mee see red! I may make fun of someone or something but try to be carefull to see that that person can handle it... I know I am terrible in that, so IF I EVER really hurt you PM me and I will repend! I NEVER would hurt anyone on purpose! Or if I do I am MAN:p enough to say it right out!

Attacking peoples person by putting her or him down really irks me. It always has. I used to hate the girl groups in school as you know what they often talk about, I never even wanted to be a part of that backtalking so when ever the discusition turned in to that kind of talk I left the group. We all are jerks any way one in one way and an other an other way....

Actually I think teh Rumors go in with this putting others down, what else is it than that!

The Necking and stuff... getting any further is very serious, but not there yet. Leading definately wrong way

The reast do not damage others as it does yourself.

[Justice]

To add a bit to what Jim posted, I think also that some sin is harder to overcome for one person than that same sin for another person. I think we should especially avoid any sin that would lead us to habit and/or addiction. Addiction makes it very difficult to sincerely repent.

In any case, I go with sexual sin (option 1) because, in my opinion, that is the hardest for the greatest amount of people to overcome and repent from, and can very easily lead to habits or addictions.

[beefche]

Ogre, that's a hard list. Hard because I think we all do some of those things...sometimes without realizing it. And honestly I don't know which one is worse. Each of them can lead us into even greater sins. And even if we only had one that we did sometimes, it would be enough to damn us if we don't repent of it and sincerely try to change.

I can tell you which of those tempt me to not be the good girl I try to be....but that would reveal too much about me.

[Jim108]

If the Scriptures teach us that there is "the unforgivable sin" and that all other sins can be forgiven, then there certainly does seem to be a "worst sin." The worst sin is the one that you can't ever be forgiven for. That does establish one sin to be unequal. I think it follows that there are degrees of bad in the eyes of God.

Mark 3:28-29

[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

[29] But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Matthew 12:31-32

[31] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

[32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

A man who murders his entire family has offended God to a much greater degree than a man who stole a package of chewing gum from the grocery store. Both have committed sin, but there's a big difference between the two. I think everyone can agree that one is worse than the other. I think it would be a very strange God indeed who would count these two sins as equal.

I'm amazed that spreading gossip is winning this thing. It's a bad thing certainly, but flirting with sexual sin and abusing the God given procreative powers is laid right out in Alma as the worst sin that we can commit (after murder and denying the Holy Ghost.) I know that one survey of this sort saw the Word of Wisdom violations win out over fornication. Interesting to see where the results will end up.

Faded, thank you for this post, you are correct about blasphemy. It can not be forgiven.

[NeuroTypical]

I've got sort of a tangent to go off about. I don't want to hijack the thread, just want to highlight a few things.

So, this is not a "what is the worst sin" poll, this is a "what is the worst sin out of the options given" poll, right? Because dang, if this is supposed to determine which behaviors can humans engage in that separate themselves from God to the greatest extent, then it's sure missing a bunch of stuff.

It's probably watered down 'because it's for kids', yes? I would suggest that we do our youth a disservice by not talking about reality. Consider for a moment the kid who is currently being sexually abused by an older sibling or maybe a father. That kid comes to seminary to learn about right and wrong, and lo and behold, finds that sexual abuse isn't even on this list. Everyone is bickering about whether jaywalking or skipping church is the worst sin. We have failed in a very basic, foundational way with this kid.

We fool ourselves if we think our youth are not aware of drugs, violence, sex, rape, tyranny, murder, and many other forms of "for mature audience only" sins. And if we don't talk about such things at church or at home, then a smart kid learns to place church and home in the "useless waste of my time" category.

Sorry for the rant.

As far as the actual poll goes, the 'worst sin' is the one which brings the greatest distance between the greatest number of people and God. That's a function of heart and attitude, more than it is picking a certain behavior.

LM

[Faded]

Faded, thank you for this post, you are correct about blasphemy. It can not be forgiven.

I should say that I agree with the underlying reasoning: "The worst sin is the one that keeps you from coming unto Christ and gaining salvation." In that sense, you are correct. But I do think that God views some sins as worse than others.

[the Ogre]

I did not read the other answers so sorry if.... just wanted to say my IMHO. Sinn against the HS is ofcourse the worst and next are the sexual sins, worst of them beeing those where you take away or loose something that can never be replaced . . .

Maya, I don't know. If I remember right, sexual sin is something we don't have to die for to find repentance. I think murder is number two, then sexual sin. Keep in mind, I separate deaths on the battle-field, accidental death, and self-defense from murder. Murder has its own special spot.

[Traveler]

There is no such thing as worst sin. All sin is an abomination. Sin either is or is not. When we start to rank sin we start to legalize our relation with God and things start to get mucked up and fuzzy. Thank you Jesus for washing the believers clean.

Most of us think of sin in terms that such things cause harm to others. Thus we tend to think that victimless sins are less severe than sins that cause great harm to others. I believe the truth is that the real danger and horror of sin is what it does to those that engage and find reason to excuse it. I agree with Jim108 that the enjoyment and desire to keep (not repent of) any sin will destroy one’s ability to receive the mercies and blessings of G-d (regardless of any or all professed belief) and therefore fulfill to every whit the very definition of abomination he spoke of.

However, I do believe that some sins carry with them greater powers of destruction and powers of binding or putting one in “bondage” making repentance more difficult. I call these the sins whereby one places their personal desires as greater value than the life of another human. I believe that both sins of murder and sex outside of family covenants fall into this category.

The Traveler