Guest ldsgal Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I don't post here very often, but I was hoping some of you who might know, could give me some information. I do not want to start any kind of debate, I'm just looking for valid info, if anyone has any. My dh & I were married in the temple almost 4yrs ago and have a wonderful marriage. The question is regarding his parents. His mother is in the process of leaving his father and seeking both a legal divorce and a temple cancellation. My dh is the oldest of 6 and he & the 2 youngest ones are the only active kids. The inactive ones are looking to us for answers regarding some spiritual questions they have. They won't go talk to a bishop, which I know would be best, so we're trying to answer their questions as best we can. Dh & I are in agreement on how we understand sealings, temple ordinances, etc, but want to run this by any of you here who might have a greater understanding on the matter. Since none of the siblings who are asking have been through the temple, we are trying to answer their questions as honestly and as appropriately as possible. My understanding is that all sealings are TO the man. Women are sealed to the man and then any children born under covenant or sealed in the temple, are sealed to the man. If the temple marriage is dissolved, then the children remain sealed to the man essentiallly unless he's not in good standing (ie excommunicated). Dh's father is in good standing, so that's not an issue in this case. Once their temple marriage is dissolved, all of the children remain sealed to him, is that correct? What happens if his mother remarries in the temple later on (highly unlikely)? Will her children remain sealed to the father? And if he remarries, what happens then? I tried explaining to them that the Lord's plan is sure and that no one will be left out in the cold or anything, but they are asking for further clarifcation. I told them that as far as I knew, they remained sealed to the father and that he would still have the responsibility of resurrecting them. I would appreciate any info you guys have for my own personal knowledge and also so that I feel more confident in how we are answering their questions. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToasterOfen Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 My parents were sealed in the temple, and later divorced. What I was told is that the children's sealing stays with the mother, (but that can and will change depending on who is worthy to carry the sealing, the mother or the father.) It use to frustrate me because my mother was the least worthy out of the two; I would much rather the sealing would stay with my father. Again, all of this is just what my mother and others had told me, and I don't believe that is really what happens.If that is the case, what do you do if both parents are worthy? How do you distribute the kids? That doesn't seem fair. My answer to that is a sealing is much more about becoming part of God's family, everyone being sealed to everyone else so we are all connected. It is much less about being sealed to a certain individual, especially in the parent/child arena. Not much help, I know. I've probably only created more confusion. But as child of divorce myself, the thing that brings comfort to me is that since I was sealed, I am sealed to my Father in Heaven, no matter what my parents have done or do. Once we get to Heaven, we are all brothers and sisters anyway, so the most important thing is being sealed to each other, and to God. And since I am now sealed to my husband, I am much less worried about it because he is the one my future is with.I am not saying that children being sealed to parents isn't important, because I think it is vitally important, but when we look at the bigger picture it is about sealing them (our children) "unto God", not to ourselves.Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.I went 7 years without being able to have my first child sealed to me. It was torture...So when my husband was able to adopt him and we had him sealed to us, that was the most glorious moment of our lives. Obviously, I don't take this lightly, it is important, but the sealing is most importantly to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzysmiles Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 the children are sealed to both parents but if the dad dies and the mother remarries and they have children together then the first husband will have those children with his wife becasue they are sealed, yeah kinda ###### for the second husband. but the children go to the woman if she is worthy and I wouldn't be worrying too much about it becasue it will all be worked out in due time and im sure there are things that will be worked out according to that specific situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Here is some food for thought along the lines you are discussing here. True that families are forever and when born under the covenant or sealed to ones parents you are of that family as a family forever. When a woman marries she is then sealed to her husband. She is a part of that family under the Patriarchal Order. We had that issue come up when my daughter divorced and she was worried about who her daughter would be sealed to in the life after this. Answer: her husband, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Whenever a covenant is broken the blessings of that covenant are lost. In the case of your husband’s parents their blessings for the covenant are lost. I would remind all that just having a marriage in the temple does not complete the sealing covenant. That is done later by the Holy Ghost that seals covenants (see D&C 132 especially verse 7) Children cannot be sealed to one parent. It requires two parents for this sealing covenant. As for your husband’s siblings that no longer respect the covenant under which they were borne it should not make any difference because they have broken the covenant anyway and therefore have lost the right to be sealed to any parents – unless they repent. At which time they may establish with their spouses the new and everlasting covenant. If the sealing family covenant remains broken by your husband’s parents then at some future time that break will be repaired to bind the loyal and faithful ancestors to their loyal and faithful descendents. This is the great work of the millennium or 1000 years of peace. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzysmiles Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 ben you hope your granddaughter goes to her dad then your own daughter? mabey I read that wrong, but i think if people are divorced here and you live your life goood and are sealed im sure you will still see them then, we grow up and get married and it should be our spouse we are concerend about being with, the children will be adults then and things will work out. but I hear its the WOMAN they go to and their real dad. If its divorce then who knows i dont think any of us really know, we just have our oppionions and i think it was the woman but then gain im sure many will go to everyone like someone said earleir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 I am not unclear on who my granddaughter would hopefully be sealed to. Hopefully to her husband in the temple. My point I was trying to make is that while it is true we believe that families are forever and we have families sealed together it is the marriage partners that are sealed for time and all eternity. My daughters to their husbands and my son to his wife and my wife and I to each other. My son is not to be sealed to me or my daughters. While we are part of an eternal family it is spouses that are sealed to each other and that is the partnership that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzysmiles Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 that makes more sense It was me who read it wrong. your right to Her husband!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXRed Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 This question about sealing comes up quite often and probably has for generations. I know that, at least, I've heard it being discussed for the past 28 years that I've been a member. Back when I first joined the church, there was a woman in our ward who was divorced. She was really upset, because she was told that when she broke her sealing with her ex, her children remained sealed to him and not her. I remember how unfair she thought it was and how angry she was, but she finally got herself to the point where she believed that Heavenly Father would work it all out in the end; so she became at peace about it. Recently, a man in our new ward asked my older daughter (who has been teaching Gospel Essentials for the past three years or so) what she knew about it. (she is also recently divorced) His questioning was due to the fact that he is getting ready to take his present wife through the temple, but she is still sealed to her ex. Her adult children were told that if she got a temple "divorce" and was resealed to her present husband, she would no longer be sealed to her children. This, of course, upset her so much that she is considering NOT being sealed to her present husband. (her ex is someone that she knows she can not live with and would not want to) Anyway, my daughter was appalled at the question. She had never heard of such an idea, and I told her that I had heard that discussed years before. Her opinion and understanding is that the woman is sealed to the man, the children are sealed to BOTH parents. When the woman is temple "divorced" from the man, only HER sealing is dissolved. It is her understanding that the children remain sealed to the Father and sealed to the Mother BOTH. (Like someone mentioned earlier, the sealing binds us all the way back to Heavenly Father . . . . . . . . . . we just are not necessarily bound to each other directly) Here's MY opinion. . . . . t'ain't worth much . . . . . . .but it's mine. I always just went on the assumption that the Lord would work it all out in the end, and I did not really have to work at it or worry about it. My daughter says that I'm wrong and that we need to do everything we can possibly do to make things as correct as possible. . . . that's our job. Well, I sure can't argue with that one. :) In my opinion, we have a loving Heavenly Father who cares about each and every one of us. I believe that my daughter is right, because it does not make sense to me that HE would take our children from us. . . . . either parent. . . . . .just because we do not get along as parents. I had never thought about it before my daughter expressed her opinion to me, but it makes perfect sense to me that the sealing between child and parent remains intact even though the sealing between mother and father does not. Of course, this is ONLY opinion. And, I honestly think that is all that you can get from anyone at this time, because I don't think that there is anyone here (except maybe the Prophet) that KNOWS for absolute and positive. This is one of those things that we will find out for sure later on. As I say about other things, PRAY, PRAY, PRAY, and make your decision based on that. Do remember that God loves us all. Peace, TXRed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Children will be sealed to their respective spouses if they marry in the temple. That is the important sealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzysmiles Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 The important thing is we al make it to the celestail kingdom and we all can be there together as our HF's "family" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 9 2005, 12:26 PMThe important thing is we al make it to the celestail kingdom and we all can be there together as our HF's "family"←Remembering we are all one family... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Nov 9 2005, 01:03 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-dizzysmiles@Nov 9 2005, 12:26 PMThe important thing is we al make it to the celestail kingdom and we all can be there together as our HF's "family"←Remembering we are all one family...←Which brings up the age old question, why bother with the sealings in the first place? Especially when it all boils down to being sealed to your spouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Even if your parents get a civil divorce, your mother should not have her temple marriage cancelled. I have been through this, am single, and still sealed to my husband who has been excommunicated. I have questioned Bishops, Stake Presidents, and Temple President on this subject. If a woman has her temple sealing cancelled and never remarries in the temple to someone else, she will never be able to progress to more than an angel in the Celestial Kingdom. BenRaines is right, the children goes with the father if he is worthy, and if he is not, the Lord will take care of it. The daughters will go with their husband's family and the sons, the Lord will make it right with. If all parties concerned live worthy and make it to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, I am not sure it will matter to us, and for those that are not worthy, it won't matter anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzysmiles Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Josie you make it sound like only women can't progress, any person who regects being married in this life OR the next can only be there, but I wouldn't say the children only go to the man if divorced, becasue i belive we will all get a chance to be married, and have children whether in this life or the next, and therefore if the mother is worthy I believe they both can see their children. AS for you Jason, we all have to be sealed becasue it is a commandment and its kinda like asking why we have to bake cookie dough in order to make cookies? It seals everything together and raises like our bodies will in the next . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 We cannot control what happens with parent and/or children. Etermal Marriage is what it is all about. Husbands and Wives being Married or Sealed for time and all eternity. I can't control if my parents remain sealed to each other or who I am sealed to of my divorced parents. What I can contol is the relationship that I have with my wife. We together can progress as far as possible with this sealing in the Celestial Kingdom, if we are worthy. While it would be nice to be sealed to parents or have children remain sealed to us that is their agency. Mine is for my eternal partner and I to be worthy to be there together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Any person that is disobedient to God's commandments and does not live up to his temple covenants will not have Eternal Progression, if he does not repent. I did not say the kids would only be with their father's in the case of a temple divorce, although children follow their worthy patriarchal order. I said "If all parties concerned live worthy and make it to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, I am not sure it will matter to us, and for those that are not worthy, it won't matter anyway..." The first thing we have to be concerned with is being worthy to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by dizzysmiles@Nov 11 2005, 03:21 PMAS for you Jason, we all have to be sealed becasue it is a commandment and its kinda like asking why we have to bake cookie dough in order to make cookies? It seals everything together and raises like our bodies will in the next .←You missed the point. Your kids will presumably get sealed to their spouses, and their kids will be sealed to their spouses, and none of you will actually be with your children. They will all presumably be having spirit children and creating worlds of their own. Unless you can't visit your kids without proof of a sealing ordinance? Maybe it's like a celestial Passport so that you can leave the greater Kolob sea-of-glass galaxy? (I wonder if the Borg will take over Kolob??? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Jason+Nov 11 2005, 06:49 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-dizzysmiles@Nov 11 2005, 03:21 PMAS for you Jason, we all have to be sealed becasue it is a commandment and its kinda like asking why we have to bake cookie dough in order to make cookies? It seals everything together and raises like our bodies will in the next .←You missed the point. Your kids will presumably get sealed to their spouses, and their kids will be sealed to their spouses, and none of you will actually be with your children. They will all presumably be having spirit children and creating worlds of their own. Unless you can't visit your kids without proof of a sealing ordinance? Maybe it's like a celestial Passport so that you can leave the greater Kolob sea-of-glass galaxy? (I wonder if the Borg will take over Kolob??? )←LOL... what do you think Heaven is... little cells where only father and his children will stand around all day....??It will be a society... of the righteous... mingling... associating... working... loving... sharing.... if both spouses are righteous....and their children are righteous... they will all be in the same place and see each other... they just won't be a family unit... after all... before this life... we weren't in these small units we know here on earth... we were all together.... in one great big family of Father in Heaven.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Which again begs the question, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Jason@Nov 11 2005, 07:02 PMWhich again begs the question, why bother?←It is all about who you go home with at the end of the day.... who you walk into eternal progression with... and who you will sit with during counsels and walks in the beautiful gardens... and go on assignment with...My dad is a missionary with my brother.... on the other side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Please@Nov 11 2005, 07:05 PMMy dad is a missionary with my brother.... on the other side...←Oh yeah? They still wearing black name tags on the "other side"? Do the use the now defunct committment pattern, or do they just go by the spirit like the new missionaries on "this side"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Oh, and by the way Please, which side of reality are you in today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justlooking Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 I am glad this question has come up. I always wondered about eternal marriages. I am new too this. Luke 20:28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. 31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. 34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Jason@Nov 11 2005, 07:20 PMOh, and by the way Please, which side of reality are you in today? ←The real one... IOW.. the opposite one from you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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