Is Thomas S. Monson the LDS equivalent of a "pope"

[kookiethekat]

As the title says? I was just wondering if Thomas S Monson is the LDS version of the pope

[FunkyTown]

As the title says? I was just wondering if Thomas S Monson is the LDS version of the pope

Difficult question as they're two completely different things.

A pope is an elected official, but the prophet isn't. Both are heads of the church, so that's a similarity.

A pope is considered infallible while Thomas S. Monson isn't. Men sometimes make mistakes. The difference with a prophet is that, where it comes to doctrine, a prophet will not lead us astray. As a man, he is fallible like any other.

A pope is held accountable to the cardinals while President Monson is sustained by the general assembly every year.

A prophet in the church is more similar to Moses than to Pope John Paul.

Like the pope, the prophet is responsible for the spiritual well-being. Basically, with knowledge of what a prophet is, you need to pray and receive confirmation that he is a prophet. :)

Once you know what a prophet is, it will make more sense about the differences and similarities.

[Jamie123]

A pope is an elected official, but the prophet isn't.

How is the prophet chosen if not by election?

[mnn727]

A prophet in the church is more similar to Moses than to Pope John Paul.

.

I know John Paul II was Pope for a long time but when he passed away a couple years back Benedict XVI became Pope (or I should say Joseph Ratzinger became Pope and chose the name Benedict)

Other than that, you're correct

[MarginOfError]

How is the prophet chosen if not by election?

Technically, a prophet is chosen "by prophecy and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof" (AoF 5).

In reality, we have many prophets in our Church. We commonly recognize 15 of them (the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve), although I suppose it's possible that more could be called as needed*.

But KtK is actually asking about how the President of the Church is chosen. In the LDS Church, he is chosen by seniority, meaning the person who was ordained an Apostle the earliest. If President Monson were to pass today, then Boyd K. Packer would become the President of the Church.

Alternatively, you could think of it as the President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles is the next in the line of succession. For instance, before President Hinckley's death, President Monson was the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, but since he was serving in the First Presidency, Boyd K. Packer was named the Acting President of the Twelve. When President Hinckley died and President Monson was set apart as the President of the Church, President Packer then became the President of the Quorum of the Twelve

The current line of succession to the President of the Church is as follows:

Boyd K Packer

L Tom Perry

Russell M Nelson

Dallin H Oaks

M Russell Ballard

Richard G. Scott

Robert D. Hales

Henry B Eyring

Jeffery R. Holland (I might have the order of Eyring and Holland backward)

Dieter F. Uchtdorf

David A. Bednar

Quentin L. Cook

D. Todd Christofferson

Neil L. Andersen

[hordak]

Catholics view the Pope as infallible but non members claim he is

Mormon view the Prophet as fallible but non members claim he isn't.

In other words if the Pope messes up ("The world is flat") the naysayer don't care they expect it (even though he is supposed to be perfect.)

If the Prophet messes up ("insert "favorite" off color Spencer W Kimble quote) the naysayers are ecstatic he messed up ( even though he is not supposed to be perfect)

It's a bit ironic that those whom expect perfection from the Prophet are those whom "have it out" for the church

[FunkyTown]

I know John Paul II was Pope for a long time but when he passed away a couple years back Benedict XVI became Pope (or I should say Joseph Ratzinger became Pope and chose the name Benedict)

Other than that, you're correct

I wasn't arguing that John Paul was the current pope any more than Moses is the current prophet.

[Wingnut]

Catholics view the Pope as infallible but non members claim he is

Mormon view the Prophet as fallible but non members claim he isn't.

Non-members claim that members claim the prophet isn't fallible.

[Latter Days Guy]

Isn't it true that any worthy Priesthood holder can be called to be Prophet but tradition has been for the longest serving Apostle is called to that role. Also that the 12 Apostles can decide that they should guide the Church if led to do so. Remember listening to a podcast a week or so on this very subject.

[Jamie123]

Non-members claim that members claim the prophet isn't fallible.

Good grief Penfold! You've got it all wrong as usual.

Non-members claim that members claim that non-members think that Greenback thinks that members believe he's fallible. But what non-members don't know is that we know that they claim that he isn't infallible.

Now what could be simpler than that?

(Goes into a 7th level Yoga-Hopping Trance.)

[prisonchaplain]

My outsider view is largely YES. Catholics do not view the Pope as infallible in all matters. It's only when he speaks ex cathedra that his words are considered infallible. Is this not the same then as the LDS President, or really any of the living prophets. They are not infallible in all they say, but when they speak prophetically, they are. I hear it described here as "That was just his opinion." Or, "It was spoken at conference, so it's doctrine."

There are always differences between leaders of different faiths, but imho the LDS President and the Catholic bishop of Rome are remarkably similar in their roles.

[MarginOfError]

Isn't it true that any worthy Priesthood holder can be called to be Prophet but tradition has been for the longest serving Apostle is called to that role. Also that the 12 Apostles can decide that they should guide the Church if led to do so. Remember listening to a podcast a week or so on this very subject.

While you may be technically correct, there seems to be an unwritten rule/understanding about the succession by seniority. So much so that there was a small concern among the the Twelve for a time about whether seniority was determined by age or by length of service as an Apostle. Since this has been clarified, the succession has always followed through the President of the Quorum of the Twelve--which makes sense, since at the death of the President of the Church, the President of the Twelve is the highest authority in the Church.

[Jason_J]

A pope is considered infallible while Thomas S. Monson isn't. Men sometimes make mistakes. The difference with a prophet is that, where it comes to doctrine, a prophet will not lead us astray. As a man, he is fallible like any other.

This is not correct for the Catholic position. Catholics will agree with LDS that their leader is fallible like any other, but that when it comes to doctrine, the Pope will not lead the Catholic Church astray. Catholics believe that the Pope is infallible in certain specific, rare situations, when he is defining doctrine. The Pope is not believed to be infallible in everything he says or does.

[Just_A_Guy]

\Also that the 12 Apostles can decide that they should guide the Church if led to do so.

Yes; in fact, this was done up until Wilford Woodruff's death: an "apostolic interregnum" succeeded the deaths of Presidents Smith, Young, and Taylor. President Woodruff suggested to Lorenzo Snow, during his lifetime, that President Snow should re-form the First Presidency immediately after Woodruff's death. Shortly after President Woodruff died, President Snow saw Jesus Christ in the Salt Lake Temple (at the top of the staircase just outside the Celestial Room--something to think about, if you're ever there) and was again instructed to go ahead and re-form the First Presidency.

Today, once the prophet has died, the Quorum of the Twelve meets and someone will formally submit the question of whether the First Presidency should be re-constituted or whether the Quorum should go on leading the Church for a time. For the last century the result has always been to re-constitute the First Presidency immediately, but it needn't always be thus.

[Traveler]

As the title says? I was just wondering if Thomas S Monson is the LDS version of the pope

There can be rather interesting comparisons of the Pope to the presiding High Priest in the Kingdom of G-d. If we look at the structure and organization the Pope is similar in standing to the ancient Roman emperor and the organization very similar to the ancient Roman Empire. In the Kingdom of G-d the Presiding High Priest or president holds the office of stewardship which resides in the quorum of the First Presidency. The President serves with two counselors to form the quorum of the First Presidency.

Also the authority of the First Presidency is subject to the law and covenant of common consent. That is that the members of the Kingdom sustain all members of the First Presidency including the presiding president or High Priest every year they serve at the annual conference. This sustaining is also done once a year in every state at a stake conference and once each year at each ward conference. This is why the president is sustained with his counselors.

The Traveler

[rameumptom]

For Popes, there is an actual election in the college of Cardinals. It can take many days and many votes to select a new pope. It often requires back room agreements and pope-wannabes quietly pushing their wares to the cardinals.

For the Prophet, the Apostles gather together (up to 14 apostles, including those in the previous First Presidency). The second in seniority will submit the senior apostle's name for sustaining. The 12 sustain him. The new prophet's name is then presented to all the quorums and general membership for sustaining. Note, this is not a vote. There is no back room politicking, etc.

The Pope is the "vicar" of Christ, he vicariously represents Jesus on earth.

The Prophet is the individual, like Moses or other prophets, called of God and set apart with all the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood, to organize and run the Church for and in behalf of the Lord.

[Wingnut]

Good grief Penfold! You've got it all wrong as usual.

Non-members claim that members claim that non-members think that Greenback thinks that members believe he's fallible. But what non-members don't know is that we know that they claim that he isn't infallible.

Now what could be simpler than that?

(Goes into a 7th level Yoga-Hopping Trance.)

Quite elementary, my dear Watson.

[Guest mysticmorini]

isn't the mormon pope called the mope? or is he the pophet?

[Moksha]

A pope is an elected official, but the prophet isn't.

While you are right, we should not forget about that technical formality of either raising our hand to the square or else saying aye.

Prisonchaplain - Catholics do not view the Pope as infallible in all matters. It's only when he speaks ex cathedra that his words are considered infallible.

Padre, we prefer just to speak, ex tabernacla.

[pam]

isn't the mormon pope called the mope? or is he the pophet?

You claim to be LDS? This comment is in the poorest of taste when you are talking about a Prophet of God.

[Guest mysticmorini]

You claim to be LDS? This comment is in the poorest of taste when you are talking about a Prophet of God.

would you care to explain why? i was simply mixing the two titles, but thanks for questioning my integrity.

[rameumptom]

Mystic,

Such statements are either a joke, which is difficult to determine in text, or you were serious. As it is, it could be insulting to either prophet or pope to make such statements.

[robcaldwell]

I think the simplest response would to be say, imo, yes, Pres. Monson is viewed by LDS members like the Pope is for Catholics. Period. (How's that? :)

[anim82r]

As the title says? I was just wondering if Thomas S Monson is the LDS version of the pope

My oh my. your discussions here kind'a makes me nervous as a beginner in a forum. Anyway, I think KKTK is just asking if Thomas S. Monson is the LDS equivalent of a pope! In terms of ecclesiastical aspect of both the LDS Church and the Catholic Church, yes Thomas S. Monson is the equivalent of the pope. They're both leaders of their respective religion. All active members of these 2 religions look up to their respective leader, namely, Pope Benedict in the Catholic church and Thomas S. Monson in the LDS Church. I don't think KKTK was concerned with the difference of the two in her inquiry. The fallibility of the two doesn't concern me at all. However, I would like to share my testimony. President Thomas S. Monson is a Prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ. LDS tradition now holds that the senior apostle of the Church gets to become the prophet but the Lord may directly call the next prophet by revelation if He so pleases, and He can call as many as He desires. He organized the calling of the prophet according to seniority of apostleship for reason I don not know but I sustain. I so greatly express my deepest respect for the leader of the Catholic Church Pope Benedict. All righteous, hardworking, and honest leaders of all religions have the right to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. But only Thomas S. Monson Holds the all the Keys of the Priesthood and has the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. I don't just believe that. I know it.

[Suzie]

I would say yes and no. For many members, everything the Prophet says is doctrine and cannot lead us astray. For other members, the Prophet can share both opinion and doctrine and they think that if he cannot lead us astray then why when he receives a revelation he then must presented to the Quorum of the Twelve who anonymously must accept it in order to be considered doctrine and binding upon the Church.

Make your pick.