Why Preschool Shouldn't Be Like School

[MarginOfError]

Great article.

Do we try to teach our children too much? As parents, are we guilty of this?

[pam]

I have always thought that a childs play is a childs work. Part of being a child is being able to discover the world at their level. I see these commercials where they are teaching their children to read at 1 1/2 years old and think..wow let these babies be babies.

[Wingnut]

Interesting article. I have a couple of questions that come out of it.

(1) If we choose not to put our children in today's "typical" (structured, instructive) preschools, will that make them behind schedule later, when they enter kindergarten and "real" school? Does rebelling against one disservice create another disservice?

(2) I learned to read at the end of my kindergarten year. My daughter is almost three now, and obviously not in school yet. It seems, though, that children today are pretty much expected to know how to read already by the time they start kindergarten. Again, if we don't instruct them directly in this area, are they behind? Slow? Disadvantaged?

[pam]

But is it a society that is expecting this? Have parents started putting too much pressure on their kids to achieve this and achieve it early? Kindergarten they start learning their alphabet and how to write letters. I worked with my kids on their alphabet prior to kindergarten but not to read and I don't think it proved to be a disadvantage to them.

But then again that was almost 15 years ago. I just wonder again how much pressure society itself is putting on parents and then parents on their kids.

[Wingnut]

Pam, the article mentioned No Child Left Behind and how that's changed curricula even in Kindergarten. It's not just a societal expectation. My concern is that I like what the article has to say, but if I encourage explorative learning instead of structured, does she already start out "left behind?"

[pam]

Yet there are many, including educators, that do not agree with the NCLB. I spoke with a friend of mine at great length about this that is currently a principal at one of our local elementary schools. He feels that it puts far too much pressure on schools and on children. He too, felt that we are trying to push too much on kids at a younger age. One of the reasons for the changes in curriculum is to try and fit to the standards prescribed for the NCLB. Which also includes schools getting some additional funding if they meet the criteria. Or also losing funding.

Schools that are in areas of lower class and even poverty level are held to the same standards as those schools in more affluent areas. Many times these are areas where there is a wide variety of languages. Puts more burden and pressure on these schools than on a school in an affluent area that the bulk of their students only speak English. And have parents that are willing to help and donate money to support some of their programs.

Edited March 17, 2011 by pam

[Wingnut]

Right. I agree with and get all that. But if my child is already "behind," does that only compound the problem and give her less opportunities from the get go?

Edited March 17, 2011 by Wingnut
wanted to use the word "compound" but couldn't think of it when first posting

[pam]

I just googled Utah's kindergarten curriculum. I should ask my sister in law as well. She is a kindergarten teacher here in Utah. While it would seem that it is assumed that children in kindergarten already know their letters, I noticed one of the early lessons they teach kindergarteners is how to determine what is a letter and what is a word based on the number of letters. So it would appear to me that being able to already read in kindergarten is not required and something they actually teach.

[Jenamarie]

Wingnut's concerns is one the reasons (among many) that we homeschool. My mom is a veteran Kindergarten teacher in CA, and from what she says, Kindergarten is the new 1st Grade. If your child starts Kindergarten not knowing their letters and their sounds, they're "behind"; if they can't write their name, they're "behind"; if they can't sit at a desk or table and complete a worksheet, they're "behind". She can spot the preschooled kids from the non-preschooled because the non-preschooled kids all start out "behind".

Her classroom isn't nearly as fun as it used to be when I was a kid either. Gone is the play kitchen, since there's no time for it. Gone is the dress-up chest. Again, no time for it. My DD's kindergarten classroom (since we only started homeschooling this school year) had next to nothing in it for imaginitive play. There were some toys they could play with on rainy days when they couldn't use the playground, but their school day was entirely achedemic. It really shocked me.

The level of achedemic ability we're expecting of young kids in school these days is a bit much, IMO. Not that we shouldn't try and help our children achieve as much as they can, but there's such a thing as pushing them to achieve *too much*. There are some things little brains just aren't developed enough to handle, regardless of how "smart" they are, and so school becomes unnecessarily frustrating for them, and their love of learning is smothered.

[pam]

Pretty much my point. Children also learn by playing. It isn't always about academics.

[Gwen]

my kids were not "expected" to know their letters when they started school but the school did prefer it. i got the comment from a teacher "by the end of the first week we can tell which kids went to pre-school and which did not"... i think she meant it as an insult that my kids didn't go to pre-school but i took it otherwise. my kids did not know every letter when school started. they could not write their name, though they could recognize it.

here by the end of kindergarten they are expected to know how to read some words.

i parent more like the article suggested (lol i'm a very good intuitive parent?). i take teaching moments and i work things into our day. they help me cook and we count together, if we are outside we discover things together. unless your child has a disability to begin with i don't think they would be disadvantaged if you don't "teach" them before school. my kids all caught on very quickly and were with the other kids or ahead of them by the end of the school yr. there is a curve the first few weeks but it doesn't last long.

i have noticed my kids have a much greater imagination and ability to work/play together than a lot of their classmates.

[pam]

Gwen, kind of reminds me of the movie "Miracle on 34th Street" where the little girl was discouraged from having a kids imagination.

[Gwen]

i honestly don't think our society wants kids to think for themselves, they don't want them to have an imagination, they don't want them to ask questions.

do what we tell you to, learn what we tell you to, etc.

kids with imaginations and ask questions take more energy to raise (and educate). it's a lot of work. i hear parents around me all the time telling their kids to shut up. i'm constantly talking to mine, asking them why they think i do things, explaining the logic, etc. i find kids (ppl in general) are more likely to follow your rules and such if you explain the why.

if a child knows how to think and reason and learn on their own they will figure school out, i don't think they will be disadvantaged in that area. even if they are i think the long term harm is far less than if they only know how to do what they are told. i think that will create a greater disadvantage in life.

[Guest]

Guys, I have a completely different view on school.

I don't like the American School System's Elementary/Middle School program. I don't like the Philippine one either (based on American system). It is not a good system for full learning. It is a good system to train soldiers. The public school close to our house has this CHAMPS program. Part of the program is - you can only speak when it is time to speak! Can you believe that???

So, using that same system for the pre-schoolers/babies is just compounding the problem.

Children do not learn from textbooks alone - especially boys! They learn by interaction with his/her environment... answering "what if?" questions by actually doing them, learning about something by holding it in his/her hands and tinkering with it to see how it works.

My kid is in 2nd grade and he is still playing at school. YES! PLAYING! That's how he is learning. Every lesson is a game! You would be surprised to see the classroom. There's no set schedule beyond when school starts, when lunch starts, and when to pack up for home. You don't see rows of desks and chairs facing a blackboard. Hah, there's no blackboard on the wall even! And, he is in the same room as the 1st and 3rd graders. At any time, you can walk in and you will have to look for the teacher. Sometimes she is on the couch with 3 other kids talking about some book they just read... sometimes she is on the computer with another set of kids... sometimes she is on the rug playing Store/Banker/Buyer game... sometimes she is sitting one-on-one with a kid playing chess... sometimes, she is working with another set of kids writing penpal letters... sometimes she is supervising another small group of kids feeding/cleaning/observing their classroom pets (they have a bird, a turtle, some fish, crabs, hamsters, a guinea pig, spider, frogs, and the occasional visiting snake)... sometimes she is in one corner with another set of kids building a mechanical robot from recycled materials... sometimes she is outside with some kids tending the garden.

The beehive of activity in this classroom is amazing. Yeah, I was wondering - how do they learn nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc without a textbook? Interestingly, they use colored shapes to learn that! I'm still not sure how it actually works - all I know is that they use a black pyramid block to represent a noun and a green ball to represent a verb (it rolls and is constantly moving). But all I know is my kid can answer all the FCAT practice tests. They are playing card games to learn math - there's this thing called Allowance board game they love to play. They have counting beads - and yes, an abacus even... they think it's a cool toy. Yeah, my son can answer the FCAT math test too.

And one really interesting thing... there's NO HOMEWORK! Crazy, huh? According to the teacher, doing 30 math problems at home is not going to make you any smarter. If you haven't gotten the concept down (taught in school), you're wasting your time doing 30 math problems for homework. And if you got the concept down, doing 30 math problems at home is a waste of time... you should be teaching what you learn to the other kids, then you REALLY would learn it.

Okay, so it is called the Montessori classroom. And yes, it is a system of learning that you can apply to babies.

Were it not for Florida Law, they wouldn't have "grade levels" in the school. It is organized by class - each class has 3 levels - observer, active participant, teacher. Usually, you go through each level within a year, but that's not set in stone - if it takes you only 3 months to observe, 1 year to participate, and 1 year to teach, then you finish the class in under 3 years. But - that's not common. There are so many skills that you learn in each class and it takes about a year to complete all of the skills at one level. But - you can be oberving one skill while teaching another skill - for example, if a student loves to read but hates numbers, he is probably going to observe, participate, and then teach reading skills before he starts observing math-related stuff. But, because of Florida law, a kid has to know specific stuff to finish "1st grade". So, the school has to structure the activities so that a 7-year-old kid completes minimum "1st grade" requirement... so it puts a stupid kink in the structure for those who intend to transfer out to Public School.

Anyway, 0-3 class is designed for babies' first 3 years of life. You will see almost-3 year olds teaching babies who can't even walk in this class how to sort shapes and colors, etc. in all the myriads of toys they got in the classroom. They got some kids reading picture books to babies... It's amazing to watch.

Then the 3-6 class is basically pre-k stuff. All the kids graduate from this class ready for 1st grade in traditional school. But, stupid Florida Law says you have to be 7 years old to start 1st grade - so most kids who move to the public school from the Montessori class end up in Kindergarten bored to tears.

Anyway, I encourage parents who plan to homeschool read up on Montessori teaching method. It is really a much better system than the traditional American style...

Edited March 17, 2011 by anatess

[MorningStar]

Yes, I remember when Kindergarten was preschool. I grew up hearing about how much more advanced other countries were academically and I think now our kids are expected to measure up.

When my sons entered Kindergarten, they were expected to know their letters and numbers already. I remember having the alphabet bordering the room in my classroom and our teacher pointing to each letter as we learned in class.

I think parents are also eager to show how smart their kids are, but I don't think pushing the kids to learn certain things earlier and earlier makes them come out any smarter in the longrun. I remember having time to ride my bike every day after school and play with my friends. My kids have so much homework, there is hardly time for anything. And we have politicians commenting about kids being obese.

How about this: Stop stressing the children out, let them work at their own pace, and they'll have more time to go outside and play.

I remember staying up until almost midnight in high school working on huge assignments the majority of the week and then I would have to get up at 5am for seminary. It was hard to focus in school or stay awake. I got decent enough grades, but I felt horrible. I had 7 classes and it wasn't like my teachers coordinated with each other to make sure I wasn't overloaded with homework.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I think Dr. Laura's view on this is sound. Preschool cuts into much needed "mommy time" in which a child is getting emotional nurturing. Here in Idaho, it's a constant battle to keep Kindergarten out of the official curriculum. That's right. We don't even like Kindergarten. But the statists keep trying to get it into our schools. Forgive my desultory writing, but in all fairness, Dr. Laura has lately been recommending parents pull their children out of public school altogether and either home school or go with private education. It seems the statists want to get their grubby hands on our kids earlier and earlier with programs like Head Start. That should be enough to alarm saavy parents, don't you think?

[pam]

Though many of us would never qualify for Head Start.

[MarginOfError]

I think Dr. Laura's view on this is sound. Preschool cuts into much needed "mommy time" in which a child is getting emotional nurturing. Here in Idaho, it's a constant battle to keep Kindergarten out of the official curriculum. That's right. We don't even like Kindergarten. But the statists keep trying to get it into our schools. Forgive my desultory writing, but in all fairness, Dr. Laura has lately been recommending parents pull their children out of public school altogether and either home school or go with private education. It seems the statists want to get their grubby hands on our kids earlier and earlier with programs like Head Start. That should be enough to alarm saavy parents, don't you think?

I don't think you understand what Head Start is. Then again, I could be biased, being one of those people that benefited immensely from the Head Start program.

I will say, however, that private schools greatly outpace public schools. But that probably has more to do with other social problems than anything else*.

*If you'll permit to speak out both sides of my mouth, I certainly agree that standardized testing has contributed to some deterioration of public education.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

That's a good thing. No need for Mormon kids to get initiated into the "global warming" brainwashing regimen and other leftist nonsense before they develop critical thinking skills.

[MarginOfError]

That's a good thing. No need for Mormon kids to get initiated into the "global warming" brainwashing regimen and other leftist nonsense before they develop critical thinking skills.

Yup, that pretty much settles it. You clearly have no idea what Head Start is about.

[pam]

Having been one that has volunteered numerous hours at a local head start program here in Utah, I have no idea where you get the idea of global warming brainwashing etc. It's an excellent program.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I don't think you understand what Head Start is. Then again, I could be biased, being one of those people that benefited immensely from the Head Start program.

I will say, however, that private schools greatly outpace public schools. But that probably has more to do with other social problems than anything else*.

*If you'll permit to speak out both sides of my mouth, I certainly agree that standardized testing has contributed to some deterioration of public education.

Oh yes, the much touted "No Child Left Behind" program. Some have noted humorously with the onset of teachers having sex with students that some teachers have taken it to mean "No Child's Behind Left Behind". There is a huge disconnect between true conservatives who would like to see another Ronald Reagan, who by the way tried to abolish the Department of Education, and GWB who expanded federal power over state decisions regarding education, a domain that used to be reserved exclusively to the states. NCLB should be rescinded with profuse apologies and we need to start electing real conservatives. We're already off to a good start.

[Guest]

NCLB and Florida's FCAT program is the stupidest thing ever invented in American School System.

[pam]

I'm trying to figure what NCLB has to do with Head Start.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Having been one that has volunteered numerous hours at a local head start program here in Utah, I have no idea where you get the idea of global warming brainwashing etc. It's an excellent program.

Pam and Marginoferror, I have a friend who works at a Head Start school. Since she's conservative, she's more than willing to divulge all the liberal indoctrinations that go on there. So with all due respect, I DO know what I'm talking about.