is green tea okay?


ALittleLost
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I was curious about this one specifically, as I have M.S., am being treated by a renowned expert in the field, and this "remedy" has never come up. Which, if it is so effective, surprises me. Nor do I know of anyone else using this remedy. I am always searching for new and effective ways to deal with M.S.

It also begs the question of whether or not bishops simply accept a member's word for their ailments/treatments, or if some documentation is needed. Anyone could go in and claim they "need" marijuana for x ailment, for example.

As for some of your comparisons, I cannot imagine that anyone would object to medical and emergency professionals responding to those needs.

Hi Leah.

There is some medical basis, research etc, to show & leads to a belief that caffiene in & of itself does have decreasing effect on pian levels. In addition, caffiene has been shown to significantly increase the ability of certain pain relieving medications; however, combining the 2 isn't always safe or wise.

Caffiene can also be an atagonist, or pain trigger.

Coffee does have some compounds in it that can also reduce inflamation in the body & in turn reduce pain. My wife would be able you name the compound but I can't & my understanding is that it is not effective with "instant" coffees.

Here again coffee can also be an atagonist, causing inflamation.

So both can be an aid & both could be a tigger for pain, so it probly depends on the person, the pain, & possibly other factors. Caffiene & coffee can as well interfer with many medications.

The surgeon after my shoulder surgery told me that if the pain meds didn't seem to be working or not lasting long enough (he wanted me to go 6+ hrs between doses) to try taking them with a Mtn Dew. He cautioned against the "power" type energy drinks because of too much caffiene & said the pain meds with Mtn Dew worked for some & didn't for others.

I don't like the idea of MMJ. Marajuana has some 30+ complex compounds in it, of which they have only been able to isolate 3 or 4 in the lab for actual medical studies. Any time you combine multiple compounds you increase the risk of complications & other problems. So while it may benefit it also has serious risks ... like any other drug, except with MMJ we don't fully understand if the benefits outweight the risks.

I'd be highly surprised if the church officially accepted or approved the "legal" use of MMJ. Your state may sau it's legal but the feds continue to say it is not & could still prosecute anyone using MMJ.

I know my wife as an NP sometimes gets irritated with doctors because they "write off" many of the medical studies & patint claims & other times they just overlook the most basic simplist treatments.

A common MS experience that many docs "write off" is heat making the pain worse, a lot of docs just don't believe that.

An example that immediately comes to mind of a wrtten-off simple treatment:

The wife once prescribed vinegar with a couple of copper pennys desolved in it (they used copper wire) for soaking ringworm on the skin ... the doc in the clinic had a fit he believed she should have prescribed a cream that would have cost over $130. A week later there was no sign of the ring worm ever having existed & the cure only cost a few copper pennys.

Another time was a patient in our little 6-bed hospital with a rash that was actually of bacteial origin. The wife precribed vinegar rinse, this time though the only thing said was by the medical director asking her to write it out as the type of acid 5% rather then the term vinegar. Same thing just the "official name".

As for Bishop's being told & believing things that may not be true .... isn't that about all the Bishop can do in most cases. He can only make a decision in an Interview based on our answers to the questions .... he doesn't know if one is being honest or not & unless the Spirit bares otherwise, the Bishop kind of has to go based on our answers.

Edited by Sharky
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I have always found the WofW very interesting, especially when put in context with the verses 1 - 4 of Section 89.

All to often we forget to read or study or teach those 4 verses.

The WofW was received "... not by constraint or commandment, but by revelation .... showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days - ...." (verse 2).

Bear in mind that verses 1-3 are an "inspired introduction". The revelation per se begins with verse 4. The Word of Wisdom may or may not have initially been a "commandment" (in spite of its innocuous introduction and sloppy observation, David Whitmer was excommunication for (inter alia violating the Word of Wisdom as early as 1838); but it is certainly so at this time.

hmmm, "temporal salvation", not spiritual or eternal salvation.

But see D&C 29:34: 34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.

Making a concious decision to go against the WofW is to make a decision knowing that it could put at risk your ability to meet God's purposes as well as putting at risk your ability to heed other revelation, direction, & commandments that have been given.

Agreed; and that could be a lot of the "spiritual" component of the Word of Wisdom.

Another brief reference from vs 3 "...adapted to the capacity of the weak ...".

For me, or to me, I would take that as the specifics mentioned in the WofW are to help identify some of the more serious concerns & to be a guide. The WofW IMHO is simply a foundation, there are many more things in todays world that are equally or more devestating to the mind & body ... & ultimately devestating to the "temporal salvation".

I agree; but generally speaking the spirit of the law should supplement the letter of the law and only extremely rarely--if ever--contradict it.

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  • 3 years later...

Realizing this thread is a little old, I'd still like to add my 2¢.  I joined this forum as a result of looking for answers like these.  And there's a lot of good insight.  Backroads said "Green tea comes from the same plant as black tea."  True, it does.  In my research, I learned that black tea is fermented (among other things) green tea, so Bytor2112's observation that both wine and grape juice come from grapes struck a familiar chord for me.

I don't drink anything hot; warm, but not hot.  I prefer my herbal brews iced, actually.  Could be that living in the Texas heat made that happen.

I know that when I drink it, my kidneys are happy and my legs don't swell as easily.  The "medication" for that anomoly in my life has side-effects that make alcoholism look safe.

My view is this: Follow the Spirit.  I ask myself "Why do I do this?  Is it for His glory or mine?"  That generally gets (and keeps) me on the right path.

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Backroads said "Green tea comes from the same plant as black tea."  True, it does.  In my research, I learned that black tea is fermented (among other things) green tea, so Bytor2112's observation that both wine and grape juice come from grapes struck a familiar chord for me.

 

I haven't re-read the thread, so I don't know if I'm repeating anything, but if this should not resonate with you because it's fallacious.

 

Grapes are not against the word of wisdom. Alcohol is. Non-alcoholic wine is fine -- also from grapes. Caffeine-free coffee and tea are not fine. Coffee and tea are against the word of wisdom. Moreover, alcoholic drinks are defined as anything with alcohol in them -- whatever the source -- barley, grapes, sugar, corn. 'Hot drinks', on the other hand, counts as anything with coffee or tea in it. As in the tea leaf and the coffee bean.

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I believe that most of the time, when people say it is ok is because a LOT of people are under the impression that green tea is another herbal tea.

 

Many people say such-and-so are medicinally necessary for them.  While there are always exceptions to such rules, I do know of some people who walk a very thin line when it comes to things like this.  

 

I knew brother who had a "mini-can" of beer every night.  He said it was prescribed by his doctor for some digestive problem that I'd never heard of.  Years later I heard about such a claim again while going over some medical website on a related issue.  They indicated that it was a practice years ago, but it had been abandoned because later findings showed no real health benefit whatsoever.

 

Some people may buy into the current hype about red wine having health benefits for the heart.  But they don't pay attention to the accompanying statements that the alcohol still has other detrimental effects, so you have to weigh your pros and cons.  Later on it was found that purple grape juice in the exact same quantity contained the same substances that promote heart health.

 

And there is also a difference between a tonic and a medicine.  A tonic is something that helps you stay in good condition.  A medicine is something to take when you're NOT in good condition to help get you back into good condition.  I tend to put green tea into the tonic category and would thus avoid it for WoW purposes.

 

I'm not going to say anything is black and white when it comes to questions like this.  But without a pressing NEED I'd try to err on the side of obeying the letter of the law if there is any question.

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What about coffee ice cream? I have also seen green tea Ice cream

 

I've had coffee ice cream before. In later years I have determined to take a just-in-case approach to it though. There's no compelling reason to eat coffee ice-cream, imo.

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It tastes really good.....that's a pretty compelling reason

 

And being drunk, apparently, feels really good...or some such. So does elicit sex.

 

"Compelling" must always be tempered by cost/benefit, particularly in the spiritual sense.

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And being drunk, apparently, feels really good...or some such. So does elicit sex.

 

"Compelling" must always be tempered by cost/benefit, particularly in the spiritual sense.

I agree but is coffee Ice cream against the WOW

 

Clearly the other items that you listed would exceed the boundaries that have been set forth by our faith.

 

I am not trying to skirt an issue or find a loophole, I actually want to know. 

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I agree but is coffee Ice cream against the WOW

 

Clearly the other items that you listed would exceed the boundaries that have been set forth by our faith.

 

I am not trying to skirt an issue or find a loophole, I actually want to know. 

 

I don't know the answer to this. Reason (but it is only my reason, which defines nothing but itself) tells me that it would be. But I really don't know. I think such a thing must, honestly, be between the individual, the Lord, and, perhaps*, one's bishop.

 

* I say perhaps because I really don't know that any bishop could authoritatively advise on this either.

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My personal opinion is if it actually contains coffee (and some do) then, yes, it's against the WoW. If the taste is a chemical concoction, then I can see where it wouldn't be against the WoW. But, again, if the chemical concoction contains coffee extraction, then I would consider that as containing coffee.

 

I just tend to be overly cautious and avoid anything that has coffee flavor.  I don't always want to inspect the ingredients to find out if it has coffee or not. Plus, I don't like coffee flavor.

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A friend at work (ex-Mormon) asked if I drank caffeinated soft drinks.  He had not heard of the latest announcement on the Church Newsroom website.  He asked if that finally settled the issue.  I said, "No, people are still arguing the point."  Then I I mused:

 

"First of all, it is not the job of the Church to list every little thing in the world that is good or bad, in or out.  Can you imagine how big a tome it would have to be?  So, no matter what, we're going to have some points of disagreement on the gray areas. 

 

"And if we're going to be debating something on the WoW, caffeinated soft drinks are a fine place to find the gray area.  People are going to argue it.  Let them argue. 

 

"Can you imagine what kind of people we'd be if we were arguing whether crystal meth is against the WoW?  Thank goodness we're not."

 

We've been told what we've been told.  We will eventually be judged on how well we listen to the Holy Ghost on all matters, including the WoW.

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  • 2 years later...

First and foremost, no one here can say green tea is or is not "against the word of wisdom". It is not written in black and white in any of the standard works, or in and modern day revelation.  If you can find it, I would love to see it. 

This is one of those " it's up to you" topics. 

We have been told "coffee and tea" are not allowed. Those are in black and white. But herbal teas are not prohibited, and you can find that in several places at lds.org. I have heard people say if you boil a stick in a cup of water than you had made tea and it is Against The Word of Wisdom. However by using that mentality, I could not eat soup if I have put in oregano or parsley. So I guess soup is out of the question now?

Anyway seriously, green tea differs from black tea by its preparation after it is picked. Black tea goes through a fermentation process prior to drying which creates additional chemicals that are not found in green tea. Green tea is dried immediately after picking so the additional chemicals are not produced. It is a fallacy and reasoning to say that because green tea and black tea come from the same plant, then they are the same thing. I enjoy bread. Bread is made from wheat and yeast and sugar. However you can also take wheat and yeast and sugar and make liquor. It goes gone through a fermentation process which creates additional chemicals such as alcohol, that are not allowed by the word of wisdom. So one could argue that green tea is okay because it has not gone through theb fermentation process, just like you could argue that wheat is okay because it has not been fermented. 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Trapp said:

 

We have been told "coffee and tea" are not allowed. Those are in black and white. But herbal teas are not prohibited, and you can find that in several places at lds.org. I have heard people say if you boil a stick in a cup of water than you had made tea and it is Against The Word of Wisdom. However by using that mentality, I could not eat soup if I have put in oregano or parsley. So I guess soup is out of the question now?

 

The thing is I don't believe in "herbal teas."  Tea is made with tea leaves which is against the word of wisdom.  What people call herbal teas are other plants etc that are infused and then called herbal tea.  They aren't made out of tea leaves and therefore aren't teas.  

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1 hour ago, pam said:

The thing is I don't believe in "herbal teas."  Tea is made with tea leaves which is against the word of wisdom.  What people call herbal teas are other plants etc that are infused and then called herbal tea.  They aren't made out of tea leaves and therefore aren't teas.  

This.  Herbal "teas" aren't teas at all.  Green tea is.

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1 hour ago, pam said:

The thing is I don't believe in "herbal teas."  Tea is made with tea leaves which is against the word of wisdom.  What people call herbal teas are other plants etc that are infused and then called herbal tea.  They aren't made out of tea leaves and therefore aren't teas.  

More directly to expand on this...  tons of drinks are made with a combination of water and plants.  One of these was made from a Tea plant.  This 'tea' variety became really popular so much that everything else became tea even if there was no tea in it.  (Like how all photocopies are Xeroxes, and how all medical adhesive strips are  Band-Aids)

The Word of Wisdom is against Tea as in drinks made from the Tea plant... not the generic stuff made other plants.

The tea plant and water combination can be prepared many different ways.  But they are all 'Tea' per the Word of Wisdom.  The most common are Black, White and Green along with Iced Teas.  Now if you want to say because the church has never said "Green Tea" it is ok... well that is of course your right... But such logic makes the Restriction on Tea (and other things) basically meaningless.  Because the church has never gone into that much details on any of the varieties.  Thus by that logic one could justify any and all Tea based drinks

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Just now, estradling75 said:

More directly to expand on this...  tons of drinks are made with a combination of water and plants.  One of these was made from a Tea plant.  This 'tea' variety became really popular so much that everything else became tea even if there was no tea in it.  (Like how all photocopies are Xeroxes, and how all medical adhesive strips are  Band-Aids)

The Word of Wisdom is against Tea as in drinks made from the Tea plant... not the generic stuff made other plants.

The tea plant and water combination can be prepared many different ways.  But they are all 'Tea' per the Word of Wisdom.  The most common are Black, White and Green along with Iced Teas.  Now if you want to say because the church has never said "Green Tea" it is ok... well that is of course your right... But such logic makes the Restriction on Tea (and other things) basically meaningless.  Because the church has never gone into that much details on any of the varieties.  Thus by that logic one could justify any and all Tea based drinks

You have to be careful of supplements, too.  Many use coffee.

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Guest MormonGator
4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Trick question?  If they have coffee in them, then no, according to WoW?   I've only seen them when buying supplements for lifting.  

No, not a trick question. Not a spiritual one either. Are the supplements healthy to take strictly for your body? I know nothing about lifting. My exercise is a five mile walk around my neighborhood every day. 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

No, not a trick question. Not a spiritual one either. Are the supplements healthy to take strictly for your body? I know nothing about lifting. My exercise is a five mile walk around my neighborhood every day. 

I'm not sure, I guess.  I know some of them are to speed metabolism.  Others are to increase blood flow and enhance performance.  It's mostly the caffeine they are after when using coffee products, I believe.

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Guest MormonGator
Just now, Grunt said:

I'm not sure, I guess.  I know some of them are to speed metabolism.  Others are to increase blood flow and enhance performance.  It's mostly the caffeine they are after when using coffee products, I believe.

It's not like steroids or anything, right? 

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