applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Yesterday in RS one of the sister said many didn't know but Christ wasn't perfect. Where would she get this idea? I've been searching scriptures and haven't been able to figure out where she came up with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 You might want to email her and ask for references to back up her statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Where would she get this idea?I am going to go on a limb and say "the devil." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I am going to go on a limb and say "the devil."That's what I'm afraid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectofGod Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I have heard this before. Not sure if its what they meant but I have heard the concept of being perfect is only relative. Example, Telestial people will be perfect in their sphere, Terrestial in there sphere, Celestial in there sphere (ok bad example).... You can be perfect for whats given you in your sphere but not be perfect in ALL things (not ALL things as stated in the scriptures but in things of a greater order, such as worlds higher than the celestial world which are many). Therefore he would be perfect as a Celestial Being but not yet perfect in orders greater than that. Whatever that means I don't know lol. Or maybe she was referring to Christ was not perfect during his life but he was perfect AFTER his ressurection. When he ascended to the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Christ speaking prior to death and ressurection) 3 Nephi 12:48 Therefore I would that ye should be aperfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect. (Christ speaking post ressurection) He was not perfect in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennarator Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I once was told that He wasn't perfect because he was tempted. I replied that wasn't a sin. If he would have given in to that temptation, that would have been different. This was from an LDS person that said it. She said being tempted meant He was not perfect. I disagree. So, perhaps some misunderstanding like this could have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I have heard this before too. The argument comes down to that Christ was sinless but not perfect. Hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Christ speaking prior to death and ressurection)3 Nephi 12:48 Therefore I would that ye should be aperfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect. (Christ speaking post ressurection)He was not perfect in life.Please explain. Christ was perfect. He had to be or he couldn't atone for all sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Is the disconnect coming from the definition of the word "perfect" and the word "exalted"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Why did he have to be perfect to atone for all sin? He was trapped in an imperfect mortal body, by definition he could not be perfect. He was subject to the same infirmeties that we all are. He ate, he bled, he was tempted. I do not believe he was perfect until he was ressurected. Our ressurected bodies are our perfect state. As it is his. If we believe the Bible to be the word of God then by his own quotes you see he excludes himself from perfection prior to ressurection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 One can argue that Jesus Christ was not perfect till after the atonement, resurrection, and presentation unto the Father. Hebrews 5: 8-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 We need to define perfection. If by perfect we mean sinless.... then Christ was perfect. If by perfect we mean Whole, Complete or Finished.... then while mortal Christ was not perfect... He became perfect once he was resurrected and the atonement finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Why did he have to be perfect to atone for all sin? He was trapped in an imperfect mortal body, by definition he could not be perfect. He was subject to the same infirmeties that we all are. He ate, he bled, he was tempted. I do not believe he was perfect until he was ressurected. Our ressurected bodies are our perfect state. As it is his. If we believe the Bible to be the word of God then by his own quotes you see he excludes himself from perfection prior to ressurection.Interesting. So you're saying his body wasn't perfect? I agree. But... Christ has to be perfect in Obedience, or without sin to be eligible to offer himself as the sacrifice to satisfy Justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Searching the word "perfect" at LDS.org I came across with this:"Only Christ was totally perfect. True followers of Christ may become perfect through his grace and atonement." Edited April 22, 2013 by applepansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 We need to define perfection.If by perfect we mean sinless.... then Christ was perfect.If by perfect we mean Whole, Complete or Finished.... then while mortal Christ was not perfect... He became perfect once he was resurrected and the atonement finished.And this is where I would use the word Exalted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectofGod Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Here is a verse between his ressurection and after his death.John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.Notice here he says You cannot touch me. I don't have a body. I am not perfect without a perfected body.Jesus was no different than any mortal. Its what he did with his life that mattered. Gethsmane, Cross, and resurrection... It is those things that made him perfect. He was perfect because he "suffered the will of the Father in all things", because he "did nothing but what he saw the father do".Thus it wasn't until he proved himself entirely he became perfect by ascending to the Father. Won't we become perfect when we ascend to the Father? Even with our entirely sinful life because of the Atonement? He lived a sinless life but was not perfect until he ascended to the father.EDIT: you answered some of these already. I was slow to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 How could Jesus be the perfect example of obedience if he wasn't perfect? Or, can one be perfect in anything without being perfect in everything?PERFECTComplete, whole, and fully developed; totally righteous. Perfect can also mean without sin or evil. Only Christ was totally perfect. True followers of Christ may become perfect through his grace and atonement.EDIT: Emphasis on the word "totally." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 And this is where I would use the word Exalted.Which is your choice... But what if the sister whose comment started this whole thing choose to use perfect instead? Because of differently defined terms what could have be a simple self-evident statement to that sister got taken as something completely different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Which is your choice... But what if the sister whose comment started this whole thing choose to use perfect instead? Because of differently defined terms what could have be a simple self-evident statement to that sister got taken as something completely differentExactly. The word is the problem. Still I have problem stating in church, regardless of which meeting, that Christ was not perfect. See above reference from lds.org. Edited April 22, 2013 by applepansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I, myself, would agree with statements such that: "Christ's body was not perfect." However, making a statement that "Christ is not/was not perfect" appears to be false doctrine and shouldn't be taught. Although, Christ's spirit was housed in an imperfect body, he was/is totally perfect himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectofGod Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) The Book of Mormon OnlineLook under the definition for Old Things Are Done Away. That is what Joseph F Smith said about Christ being perfect. Its all about how we define it.EDIT: wrong cross link. That one only talks about being perfect, the one below is JFS.The Book of Mormon Online Edited April 22, 2013 by ElectofGod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windseeker Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 What was her point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 What was her point?We were discussing lesson 7 in Lorenzo Snow. I believe her point was that Christ wasn't perfect and we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves by trying to be perfect.At the time I leaned over the the sister next to me and said "Were we just taught that Christ wasn't perfect?" Both of us had a bad feeling and she got up and left the meeting. I started searching the word "perfect" in scripture but the meeting was over before I got very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 The Book of Mormon OnlineLook under the definition for Old Things Are Done Away. That is what Joseph F Smith said about Christ being perfect. Its all about how we define it.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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