Would I, as a non-mormon enjoy living in Utah?

[tommypman]

So I've long been hoping to move out West (I live in NY currently) and Utah has long been one of the states I've been looking at the closest.

A little about me, I am a male, 26 years old and single. I am a practicing Catholic and I am very conservative. I actually think that culturally I could fit in well in Utah because from what I read the values of the Mormon community that dominates the state seems to be very similar to my own, for instance I am intensely pro-life and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and ONLY a man and a woman. I do worry though if our differences in theology might cause a rift and some trepidation on behalf of the people who would be my neighbors (as well as my self on occasion).

I also wonder if my status as a non-Mormon would harm my prospects when it comes to woman.

Any ways, thanks for any advice. I am especially hoping to hear from Mormons living in Utah.

[Guest]

So I've long been hoping to move out West (I live in NY currently) and Utah has long been one of the states I've been looking at the closest.

A little about me, I am a male, 26 years old and single. I am a practicing Catholic and I am very conservative. I actually think that culturally I could fit in well in Utah because from what I read the values of the Mormon community that dominates the state seems to be very similar to my own, for instance I am intensely pro-life and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and ONLY a man and a woman. I do worry though if our differences in theology might cause a rift and some trepidation on behalf of the people who would be my neighbors (as well as my self on occasion).

I also wonder if my status as a non-Mormon would harm my prospects when it comes to woman.

Any ways, thanks for any advice. I am especially hoping to hear from Mormons living in Utah.

Only 60% of Utah is Mormon and only 50% of Salt Lake County is Mormon.

You'll do just fine especially since, unlike Islam, it is written specifically in our articles of faith that:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

And on top of that, we are a service oriented religious denomination who will help any neighbor regardless of religious affiliation or the lack thereof.

Edited October 25, 2013 by anatess

[pam]

Only 34-40% of the population residing in Salt Lake City is Mormon. The number increases as you get out into the rural areas.

[tommypman]

A little more info. I was on a site called findyourspot.com. It is a site on which you answer a bunch of questions about the type of place you are hoping to live in, and they give you about 20 towns in the U.S. that you should consider. 4 of the ones I got are in Utah. They are:

Ogden

Provo-Orem

Salt Lake City

Springville

[Dr T]

I'm not LDS and wasn't when I lived there. Often when I told them I wasn't LDS they would stop our conversation. I loved living there even though it was a Jazz backed place.

[Zeitgeist]

A few thoughts...

1. A cousin of mine, who is non-LDS, moved from the Chicago area to Utah in the late 1980s. He lasted less than a year and finally gave up and moved on to California. He ran a small business selling skis or sporting goods or something scary like that. Said he couldn't break into the community and that his non-LDS status aggravated the problem greatly. I imagine things have changed a lot since then, but if your line of work is retail, then maybe this is something to think about.

2. Another cousin of mine from my home state of Texas moved to Sandy, Utah about six years ago. She was also non-LDS. According to her, the Mormons in her neighborhood welcomed her with open arms when she moved in, but they later "dropped her like a rock" (her words) when it became clear that she was not interested in joining the LDS Church. Of course, this is my cousin's side of the story, and all stories have at least two sides. My cousin later moved back to Texas. (Unfortunately, she had a bad experience on Temple Square. She took a tour and one of the sister missionaries went to great lengths to come across as spiritually contemplative and calmly beneficent and other-worldly. But she came across instead as robotic and brain-washed, and my cousin was deeply spooked by the whole experience.)

3. I am thinking of moving to Utah. I really dislike my current home state and I work at home, so it doesn't matter where I live. For much of 2012 and early 2013 I read sltrib.com (the Salt Lake main newspaper online) to understand the Utah culture better. But I was really turned off by the comments on all the news articles. I really got the idea that the non-Mormons in Utah resent the Mormons very much. The non-Mormon writers would call Utah a "theocracy" and complain about "Zion curtains" and bitterly gripe about all the stores closed on Sunday. Seriously, I think the Tribune could publish a story that President Monson uses strawberry jam on his toast instead of raspberry jam, and you'd get an avalanche of rabid comments from non-LDS readers who attack the LDS church for not being fair to raspberries because gosh darn it the whole religion is just a sham anyway, as everyone knows, and its members are driven to force their deluded beliefs and values on non-Mormons in Utah. I finally stopped reading sltrib.com because I was so sick of reading these sarcastic comments. I don't know what's going on here, perhaps a Utah resident can explain.

But you are wise to consider moving West. I went to school out East and disliked it immensely. The West (which I define as Mountion + Pacific timezones minus everything within 100 miles of the coast) is my favorite part of the country. Good luck to you wherever you move to.

[pam]

A lot has changed demographically since the 80's. There have been so many large businesses that have moved to Utah. Probably why the percentage of LDS compared to non LDS have dropped.

[Quin]

I've never lived in Utah... But I've spent time thereabouts long before I converted (late 90s) and then, recently, I was up and down the state (post conversion) rather frequently.

What hits ME the most, isn't the religion, it's the Midwest "book cover".

Which I totally forget about, as I spend most of my time on the coasts (La/Portland/Seattle/BC, and NewEngland - Miami), with a few jaunts into Chi-town & rural Illinois to visit family. I do almost all my stateside travel driving. And then Im in the Midwest and get smacked in the face with it. Oh yeah..... Drats.

What I mean by "book cover" is that on the coasts, West Coast & NEw York/Boston type areas in particular... People dress because they feel like it. Today might be jeans & punky roll out of bed hair, tomorrow may be cashmere sweater, skirt, and tall boots.. While the next day is a business suit, and then it's rocking the yoga pants. What you wear does NOT determine who you are, what kind of behavior to expect from you, political affiliations, etc. It's just what you happen to be wearing that day, usually determined by what you're doing that day. Not the image you want to present of who you are as a person. And most people have several different styles of clothes for work/play/home. Maybe not goth & soccermom extremes in the same closet, but then again, maybe.

However, Midwest in general, and certain areas in particular... People dress to show their affiliations.

Meaning ... Judge a book by its cover.

Dress for success ... 24/7

(Whether that success is in a fringe rock band crowd or Stepford PTA or athletics)

Which creates some head tilting stereotypes... As people often overcompensate in order to "fit in" or totally rebell.

How i dressed on any given day RADICALLY altered how people treated me.

And we're not talking risqué vs conservative.

We're talking my jeans with the knee ripped out, vs my jeans without the knee ripped out.

Which, again, is something of a Midwest thing in general.

Not just Utah.

I know a looooooooooot of eastern seaboard & west coast folk who go Midwest and can only hack about a year (a lot have those: people were nice and then froze stories)... And from knowing my rural fam, a lot on their side is culture clash. Like being over or under dressed for certain events, or being early or late when "everyone" knows that the way they DIDN'T do it is the "right" way, and were too forward, or too aloof, or, or, or, etc... so obviously they SEEMED nice, but...

For me, I mimic standards of behavior quite easily (I'm "on the dot" in Mass, and would never dream of insulting my hostess by being "on the dot" in Cali... But my wardrobe isn't something I can mess with easily. I just don't think "What will the neighbors think of my pants?" When I go to pull on pants.

So the clothing thing is what stands out.

I would suggest (as a life long traveller)... To get some temp work out there and go stay a few weeks. Extended stay hotels during the school year, or subletting during school breaks, tend to be the cheapest short term options. Craigslist has a lot of roommates wanted, which is another DRASTIC savings. It can seem expensive to drop a few thousand dollars to visit a place for a few weeks or few months... But it is infinitely less expensive than relocating. Much less twice, if you hate it.

Even if money is no object, I would still look at temp work, (something about commutes & garbage collection & grocery shopping... When ya have to be on a schedule, life just feels different), or at the very least taking an extended vacation.

Personally, I love it there. Both before & after converting.

Q

[Woodendance]

I can tell you right now don't do it. I moved to Utah for a little over a year (just last year) and I was mormon. What I learned though is you are either super mormon or non-mormon in Utah. There is no between. I had a hard time finding jobs and everything in between because I was not the standard mormon. Any time anyone of a different faith around everyone got really weird too.

[pam]

\

For much of 2012 and early 2013 I read sltrib.com (the Salt Lake main newspaper online) to understand the Utah culture better. But I was really turned off by the comments on all the news articles. I really got the idea that the non-Mormons in Utah resent the Mormons very much. The non-Mormon writers would call Utah a "theocracy" and complain about "Zion curtains" and bitterly gripe about all the stores closed on Sunday. Seriously, I think the Tribune could publish a story that President Monson uses strawberry jam on his toast instead of raspberry jam, and you'd get an avalanche of rabid comments from non-LDS readers who attack the LDS church for not being fair to raspberries because gosh darn it the whole religion is just a sham anyway, as everyone knows, and its members are driven to force their deluded beliefs and values on non-Mormons in Utah. I finally stopped reading sltrib.com because I was so sick of reading these sarcastic comments. I don't know what's going on here, perhaps a Utah resident can explain.

Don't read the Salt Lake Tribulation to get a feel for the culture in Utah. They are extremely biased and most times put the church in a negative light.

[Latter Days Guy]

You'll do just fine especially since, unlike Islam, it is written specifically in our articles of faith that:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

And on top of that, we are a service oriented religious denomination who will help any neighbor regardless of religious affiliation or the lack thereof.

I think you will find that your wrong with regards what your saying about Islam. The Quran clearly teaches that there is no compulsion in Islam, that you cannot force someone to become a Muslim.

[Guest]

I think you will find that your wrong with regards what your saying about Islam. The Quran clearly teaches that there is no compulsion in Islam, that you cannot force someone to become a Muslim.

But that's not what I said about Islam. I said, that unlike Islam, LDS believes you can be whatever religion and go to heaven.

[Backroads]

I was born and raised and currently live in Ogden. I love the city... and there is quite a nice Catholic population.

[Dravin]

I think a lot of the sense of isolation is simply a byproduct of the role the Church tends to play socially when the member population is high enough. If you make it clear you aren't interested in the Church a lot of people will stop inviting you to unit and organization activities (because most people see that as continued proselytizing) where a lot of social networking and announcements take place. If you get isolated from the community center you become isolated from the community.

[Bini]

So I've long been hoping to move out West (I live in NY currently) and Utah has long been one of the states I've been looking at the closest.

A little about me, I am a male, 26 years old and single. I am a practicing Catholic and I am very conservative. I actually think that culturally I could fit in well in Utah because from what I read the values of the Mormon community that dominates the state seems to be very similar to my own, for instance I am intensely pro-life and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and ONLY a man and a woman. I do worry though if our differences in theology might cause a rift and some trepidation on behalf of the people who would be my neighbors (as well as my self on occasion).

I also wonder if my status as a non-Mormon would harm my prospects when it comes to woman.

Any ways, thanks for any advice. I am especially hoping to hear from Mormons living in Utah.

Utah is a lot more diverse than it has been in the past. Not only are there other religious groups besides Mormonism but there are many cultural groups as well. I think a lot of outsiders seem to think that it's all middle-class White Mormons that live out here. That's not really true, as it's become a melting pot in its own right.

If you are an active person and enjoy the outdoors, Utah is a fantastic State because there are so many things to do in that arena. There are also many groups via MeetUp that hosts such activities where you can meet others that share similar passions. If you have values that you honour, regardless of religion, you'll find that it'll include you rather than exclude you.

From my own personal experience, most folks don't push their beliefs on others, they might make mention or reference to Mormonism (sometimes it's easy to just assume that everyone is) but I've never felt belittled by anyone for having differing beliefs. The only folks that I hear crap from are people that once were Mormon and have beef they want to soundboard off of others. Otherwise, I think most folks keep to themselves but are welcoming to share the gospel if brought up. Anyway, it's a beautiful State here. It's grown on me. And I've lived literally everywhere - outside the US too.

[Traveler]

I've never lived in Utah... But I've spent time thereabouts long before I converted (late 90s) and then, recently, I was up and down the state (post conversion) rather frequently.

What hits ME the most, isn't the religion, it's the Midwest "book cover".

Which I totally forget about, as I spend most of my time on the coasts (La/Portland/Seattle/BC, and NewEngland - Miami), with a few jaunts into Chi-town & rural Illinois to visit family. I do almost all my stateside travel driving. And then Im in the Midwest and get smacked in the face with it. Oh yeah..... Drats.

What I mean by "book cover" is that on the coasts, West Coast & NEw York/Boston type areas in particular... People dress because they feel like it. Today might be jeans & punky roll out of bed hair, tomorrow may be cashmere sweater, skirt, and tall boots.. While the next day is a business suit, and then it's rocking the yoga pants. What you wear does NOT determine who you are, what kind of behavior to expect from you, political affiliations, etc. It's just what you happen to be wearing that day, usually determined by what you're doing that day. Not the image you want to present of who you are as a person. And most people have several different styles of clothes for work/play/home. Maybe not goth & soccermom extremes in the same closet, but then again, maybe.

However, Midwest in general, and certain areas in particular... People dress to show their affiliations.

Meaning ... Judge a book by its cover.

Dress for success ... 24/7

(Whether that success is in a fringe rock band crowd or Stepford PTA or athletics)

Which creates some head tilting stereotypes... As people often overcompensate in order to "fit in" or totally rebell.

How i dressed on any given day RADICALLY altered how people treated me.

And we're not talking risqué vs conservative.

We're talking my jeans with the knee ripped out, vs my jeans without the knee ripped out.

Which, again, is something of a Midwest thing in general.

Not just Utah.

I know a looooooooooot of eastern seaboard & west coast folk who go Midwest and can only hack about a year (a lot have those: people were nice and then froze stories)... And from knowing my rural fam, a lot on their side is culture clash. Like being over or under dressed for certain events, or being early or late when "everyone" knows that the way they DIDN'T do it is the "right" way, and were too forward, or too aloof, or, or, or, etc... so obviously they SEEMED nice, but...

For me, I mimic standards of behavior quite easily (I'm "on the dot" in Mass, and would never dream of insulting my hostess by being "on the dot" in Cali... But my wardrobe isn't something I can mess with easily. I just don't think "What will the neighbors think of my pants?" When I go to pull on pants.

So the clothing thing is what stands out.

I would suggest (as a life long traveller)... To get some temp work out there and go stay a few weeks. Extended stay hotels during the school year, or subletting during school breaks, tend to be the cheapest short term options. Craigslist has a lot of roommates wanted, which is another DRASTIC savings. It can seem expensive to drop a few thousand dollars to visit a place for a few weeks or few months... But it is infinitely less expensive than relocating. Much less twice, if you hate it.

Even if money is no object, I would still look at temp work, (something about commutes & garbage collection & grocery shopping... When ya have to be on a schedule, life just feels different), or at the very least taking an extended vacation.

Personally, I love it there. Both before & after converting.

Q

What a novel concept - that you can communicate a little about who you are in how you dress and that somebody will actually pay attention.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I can tell you right now don't do it. I moved to Utah for a little over a year (just last year) and I was mormon. What I learned though is you are either super mormon or non-mormon in Utah. There is no between. I had a hard time finding jobs and everything in between because I was not the standard mormon. Any time anyone of a different faith around everyone got really weird too.

Hogwash - there are all kinds of Mormons here in Utah. There are the Super Mormon BYU fans :) - the sort of Mormon University of Utah fans - the odd Mormon Utah State fans - then there are the non-any fan Mormons - the typical untypical Mormon and the I can't get along with Mormons Mormon

Most of the people that have a job and go to work everyday in the greater Salt Lake area are not Mormons - proving you do not have to be a Mormon to get a job. In fact there are a lot of jobs that the Super Mormons are not interested in doing - because they would have to work on Sunday.

But the Mormons are a dominant factor in both socially and in the market place - and very few businesses want to go out of their way to offend that demographic - so for anyone with a chip on their shoulder about Mormons is likely to have some concern from their employer about such baggage.

The Traveler

Thought I would add something - Salt Lake is very diverse concerning religious thought - more so than most places. For example the only Zen master of the Buddhist religion outside of Asia lives here and is the center place for all of the western hemisphere - and his stated reason - because this is the most religiously open and accepting place he found.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Traveler
added a thought

[Woodendance]

Hogwash - there are all kinds of Mormons here in Utah. There are the Super Mormon BYU fans :) - the sort of Mormon University of Utah fans - the odd Mormon Utah State fans - then there are the non-any fan Mormons - the typical untypical Mormon and the I can't get along with Mormons Mormon

Most of the people that have a job and go to work everyday in the greater Salt Lake area are not Mormons - proving you do not have to be a Mormon to get a job. In fact there are a lot of jobs that the Super Mormons are not interested in doing - because they would have to work on Sunday.

But the Mormons are a dominant factor in both socially and in the market place - and very few businesses want to go out of their way to offend that demographic - so for anyone with a chip on their shoulder about Mormons is likely to have some concern from their employer about such baggage.

The Traveler

Thought I would add something - Salt Lake is very diverse concerning religious thought - more so than most places. For example the only Zen master of the Buddhist religion outside of Asia lives here and is the center place for all of the western hemisphere - and his stated reason - because this is the most religiously open and accepting place he found.

I did not live in Salt Lake. There were only two types of people in the area I lived in. It was not hogwash that anyone else of a different faith or wasn't super mormon in my town was looked down on.

I had no problems working a job late at night, on the weekend, etc... Yet still had the hardest problem finding a job there because I wasn't in the click basically.

You might have had no issues in the past but unless you have lived on the outside don't tell people who would how it could be really.

[pam]

I did not live in Salt Lake. There were only two types of people in the area I lived in. It was not hogwash that anyone else of a different faith or wasn't super mormon in my town was looked down on.

I had no problems working a job late at night, on the weekend, etc... Yet still had the hardest problem finding a job there because I wasn't in the click basically.

You might have had no issues in the past but unless you have lived on the outside don't tell people who would how it could be really.

And where did you live?

[Woodendance]

And where did you live?

St George. However a friend of mine even has said the same thing about Salt Lake (he is mormon also).

[prisonchaplain]

During my week vacation in Utah our family went to a medium-sized Assemblies of God Church, about an hour and a half outside of SLC (don't remember the town). It was exactly what would would have expected in the Seattle area, where I'm from). No specific mention of Mormonism--just Pentecostals living out their faith in Utah. We visited a bird sanctuary and the zoo--chatted with some locals--no mention of religion at all. Even at a grocery store in a rural town, there was no mention of religion.

Granted my observations are from a vacation...but it should be possible to get along in areas that a dominant in another religion. There is an evangelical Christian organization in Utah called Standing Together. They make a point of carrying on respectful dialogue with their LDS neighbors. So, maybe part of the key is finding a social network from your own faith (or even interest--golf, Kiwanas, anything really).

[pam]

I grew up in San Diego which is of course predominantly non LDS.

What I see in many ways is the mentality that everyone you meet who is not LDS is a possible convert. "Every member a missionary." Well that is true. But I think part of that is first becoming friends and finding common interests etc as PC mentioned to begin that process.

If they never show an interest in learning more about the church that's one thing. But you've made new friends and they have seen that there are more to Mormons than church and religion.

[Dravin]

During my week vacation in Utah our family went to a medium-sized Assemblies of God Church, about an hour and a half outside of SLC (don't remember the town).

How big is a medium-sized Assemblies of God Church?

[prisonchaplain]

How big is a medium-sized Assemblies of God Church?

Generally over 100 or so, and under 500.

I think it was Canyon Road AG, in Ogden.

Edited October 26, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[bytebear]

Having lived in California for the past 15 years, I remember going back to Utah after a while of being away, and I was surprised at how prominent the church is, but not necessarily by Mormons but by the non-Mormon mockery, particularly in the Salt Lake Weekly. We have an OC Weekly and an LA Weekly, but the SL Weekly was all about Mormon mockery. That was a bit shocking to me. And I agree, the comments in the SLTribune are beyond ridiculous. It's a total trollfest.

I think with your neighbors and coworkers, you will be "outed" as a non-Mormon, and how you react to that will be how things go from there. If you constantly feel like the odd man out, then you will be the odd man out. But if you find your own social community, and don't dwell on not being part of the Mormon party, you won't have a problem. Mormon congregations are geographically defined, so all of your Mormon neighbors will know each other from church. This is so not the case here in California where you may nod and say hello to your neighbors, and maybe make a friend or two, but in Utah, the whole neighborhood knows everyone else and socialized constantly. You may feel left out of that. Of course, you would be welcome to socialize as well, but it may be awkward for you. So, again, it depends on how you take it. If you become active in your parish, I am sure you will find plenty of friends with a similar faith.

Oh, and in the workplace, Mormons have a common language and a common social pattern even if they aren't in the same congregation. That may be odd to you, but I have never really seen the Mormons single out the outsider any more than a Mormon might be singled out elsewhere. Yes, you may be an oddity, but your personality and attitude will go a long way in making you less odd. I certainly got some ribbing for being the one drinking soda at the bar after work. But I have no problem going out with my coworkers for a "drink" once in a while.

Edited October 27, 2013 by bytebear