• Announcements

    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.
    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
Sign in to follow this  
Zeitgeist

Veil between the living and the dead

Recommended Posts

Am starting a new thread from the ruins of an older thread about photocopiers that veered way off topic.

It's about a book called A Convert's Guide to Mormon Life by Clark L. and Kathryn H. Kidd. It would be hard to exaggerate how useful and wonderful this book is. But there was one section that troubles me. Here it is (p. 259):

"There is no greater feeling than finding an ancestor's name through genealogical research, then taking that name to the temple and performing the ordinances on his behalf. Many times, people who attend the temple report that they feel the presence of the person who is being served. The veil between the living the dead is thin in the temple, and the person whose work is being done often manages to convey a sense of gratitude to the person who is serving as proxy. The work done in temples is of great importance to those who have gone before us, and many Church members will tell you of great spiritual experiences they have had while performing genealogy and temple work."

If you grew up in the Church, you may be nodding agreeably as you read this. But I did not grow up in the Church, and this passage strikes me as scary and unfamiliar. I wouldn't go as far as using words like "creepy" or "séance," but the passage feels to me like a tiny first step in that direction. It's enough to make me uncomfortable with the whole idea of temple work. Maybe I'm hanging on to parts of the Old Testament that clearly condemn "consulting the dead," as the NIV calls it (Deuteronomy 18:11).

Are you comfortable with the way the Kidds describe this? I was going to give this book to the rest of my family because they ask me about the LDS Church now and then, but if they read the section above they would totally freak out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am starting a new thread from the ruins of an older thread about photocopiers that veered way off topic.

It's about a book called A Convert's Guide to Mormon Life by Clark L. and Kathryn H. Kidd. It would be hard to exaggerate how useful and wonderful this book is. But there was one section that troubles me. Here it is (p. 259):

"There is no greater feeling than finding an ancestor's name through genealogical research, then taking that name to the temple and performing the ordinances on his behalf. Many times, people who attend the temple report that they feel the presence of the person who is being served. The veil between the living the dead is thin in the temple, and the person whose work is being done often manages to convey a sense of gratitude to the person who is serving as proxy. The work done in temples is of great importance to those who have gone before us, and many Church members will tell you of great spiritual experiences they have had while performing genealogy and temple work."

If you grew up in the Church, you may be nodding agreeably as you read this. But I did not grow up in the Church, and this passage strikes me as scary and unfamiliar. I wouldn't go as far as using words like "creepy" or "séance," but the passage feels to me like a tiny first step in that direction. It's enough to make me uncomfortable with the whole idea of temple work. Maybe I'm hanging on to parts of the Old Testament that clearly condemn "consulting the dead," as the NIV calls it (Deuteronomy 18:11).

Are you comfortable with the way the Kidds describe this? I was going to give this book to the rest of my family because they ask me about the LDS Church now and then, but if they read the section above they would totally freak out.

Yes, I suppose I'm comfortable with it, but probably only because I've heard such expressions all of my life. We don't "commune with the dead" in the LDS Church, but many families have stories of dream visits from deceased family members. We certainly do believe that our beloved familiy members who have died are still spiritually alive and conscious, and are engaged in the work of the kingdom in some capacity. We look forward with anticipation to a joyful post-mortal reunion.

I do understand your feelings. All I can really say is to remember that we don't commune with the dead or invoke dead spirits to come talk with us or any such thing. (And personally, I'm not aware that I have ever felt such impressions from the spirits of those who have died. I doubt it's a common thing.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, personally, am comfortable with the way the Kidds describe this except for the last sentence that "Church members will tell you of great spiritual experiences..." I served in the temple, as a veil worker, for a few months and during those months experiences were shared with a caveat that they weren't to be shared outside of the temple walls.

My experience, when people experience these great experiences they are not so quick to share them, unless they are guided by the spirit.

In relation to "consulting the dead" the scriptures inform us of a very different type of consulting -- without the priesthood of God. Remember, Joseph Smith was visited and consulted with prophets who lived, died and were resurrected. After the Lord was risen from the dead, he consulted with the living -- his twelve apostles and others.

In the temple there is no charming, no divination to speak with spirits, no sorcery, necromancy or wizardry. What is accomplished within the temple is performed by the priesthood, and if through the service of the priesthood and its ordinances, the veil becomes thin -- this is within the bounds the Lord already predicated ( D&C 130: 18 - 19 ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am comfortable with the words used by the Kidds. And I agree with LM's and Anddenex's comments.

We don't sit down and have conversations with deceased relatives. Far from it. Because of the sacred nature of spiritual experiences in the temple and surround family history work, rarely are the experiences discussed openly. We lose the sacredness when we talk about something so often it becomes common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets talk Deuteronomy 18... In it the Lord is warning against putting our trust in any thing but him. Thus all the soothsayers, witches, wizards, charmers... even false prophets are very bad things and if you follow them. The LDS believe this strongly.

It also says that the Lord will have his real and true prophets that will guide us to the correct things we need to do and we should listen to the true servants of God. The LDS believe this strongly as well.

We also believe that we have living prophets today. These prophets have taught us that we can expand our efforts of Christan Charity to those that die without a knowledge of Christ or his word. This we do by finding out who they were and then performing a baptism on there behalf (we also believe that other ordinances are required but I use baptism because we have that in common with most Christan faiths)

Thus we answer the question Isaiah asks in 8:19

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

We answer with a very solid yes. We are not those that are seeking those that have familiar spirits or wizards that peep and mutter... We are seeking unto our God for the living to the dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this subject, and I love how such notions of feeling the presence of, being near to, departed loved ones are indeed a part of LDS belief.

From the Gospel Principles manual, Chapter 41, the Postmoral Spirit World

Where Is the Postmortal Spirit World?

Latter-day prophets have said that the spirits of those who have died are not far from us. President Ezra Taft Benson said: “Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, 18; or Ensign, June 1971, 33). President Brigham Young taught that the postmortal spirit world is on the earth, around us (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 279).

Such a great topic to discuss a week before Halloween! I see so little resemblance between the holiday, the activities we engage in, and anything religious. It's nice to think about what we actually do believe about the topic, before I stick my kid in her bat costume and we go out trunk-or-treating.

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am starting a new thread from the ruins of an older thread about photocopiers that veered way off topic.

It's about a book called A Convert's Guide to Mormon Life by Clark L. and Kathryn H. Kidd. It would be hard to exaggerate how useful and wonderful this book is. But there was one section that troubles me. Here it is (p. 259):

"There is no greater feeling than finding an ancestor's name through genealogical research, then taking that name to the temple and performing the ordinances on his behalf. Many times, people who attend the temple report that they feel the presence of the person who is being served. The veil between the living the dead is thin in the temple, and the person whose work is being done often manages to convey a sense of gratitude to the person who is serving as proxy. The work done in temples is of great importance to those who have gone before us, and many Church members will tell you of great spiritual experiences they have had while performing genealogy and temple work."

If you grew up in the Church, you may be nodding agreeably as you read this. But I did not grow up in the Church, and this passage strikes me as scary and unfamiliar. I wouldn't go as far as using words like "creepy" or "séance," but the passage feels to me like a tiny first step in that direction. It's enough to make me uncomfortable with the whole idea of temple work. Maybe I'm hanging on to parts of the Old Testament that clearly condemn "consulting the dead," as the NIV calls it (Deuteronomy 18:11).

Are you comfortable with the way the Kidds describe this? I was going to give this book to the rest of my family because they ask me about the LDS Church now and then, but if they read the section above they would totally freak out.

I did not grow up in the church and I find nothing scary nor troubling about this.

Why let one passage in one book distress you? If you are looking to return to the church, why not focus on the positive? You seem to be focusing on the things you disagree with or that you don't understand. The understanding will come with time and faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand your feelings of concern. After all, many people who have professed to see the dead (I see dead people) or speak to the dead have been committed to an asylum and if you see a psychiatrist the ask if you've ever "seen things that are not there". Answering that in the positive again could land you in the insane asylum. However, the insane and the LDS are not the only two groups to have seen the dead.

My inlaws are not LDS but a few years ago the matriarch passed away suddenly in a horrific car accident. The daughter saw her many times in the year that followed both in dreams and while awake and the son also saw her. This had nothing to do with temple work and they are not insane.

IMO the dead are active and, although I don't know the specific reasons nor why or how, they do reach through the barrier at times. In my case it has only happened in the temple but that's not to say it's the only place it can or will happen.

If this passage causes concern, perhaps you could do some research to discover stories from others who have been visited. To me this is not the same as conjuring them up to ask where the family gold is hidden or asking them to possess someone's body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't go as far as using words like "creepy" or "séance," but the passage feels to me like a tiny first step in that direction.

All I can really say is to remember that we don't commune with the dead or invoke dead spirits to come talk with us or any such thing. (And personally, I'm not aware that I have ever felt such impressions from the spirits of those who have died. I doubt it's a common thing.)

These type of stories about the L.D.S. Temples promote articles such as "Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]." They are what I refer to as faith promoting stories. The truth will never be known.

We do not understand who or what spirits are in relationship to the larger picture. People place spirits in a "pigeonhole" of their own understanding without any knowledge of the reality.

There is nothing creepy about spirits, good or evil. Truth will surprise all us. Simply because we do not understand what is on the other side of our mortal existence does the idea of spirits scare us.

Before the War in Heaven we all got along (there was no war, then there is war). The spirits that took sides with Lucifer could have been our neighbors in heaven. Civil War breaks out and everyone takes sides making other the side the enemy. Sound familiar?

The sad part is that both sides simply have a different point of view about an event that caused the difficulty.

In the case of Lucifer rebelling against G_d, the Father, because he could not receive Jesus inheritance, promoted him and his followers to a means to help fulfill the covenant that G_d, The Father, made to the house of Israel. Something far more complex then a simple Civil War.

At the Council in Heaven I saw the side that the purpose of the earths creation as being for G_d to fulfill his promises (covenants) to the righteous of the house of Israel. I took G_d, the Father, and Jesus side of the issue while in the Council of Heaven.

I am not saying one should go practice evil because his friend in heaven did. But closing ones mind to the understanding that there is a living community beyond our present condition as mortals really presents a one sided point of view. It negates the belief in God to an extreme.

As an individual with an understanding that there is a pre-mortal and post-mortal existence I can say that the statement that is made by Kathryn H. Kidd may or may not be true.

The difficulty with the "Many times, people who attend the temple report that they feel the presence of the person who is being served" (Kathryn H. Kidd).

I can tell you that people who, have and have not, had bodies, both good and evil spirits are here upon the earth. I agree with Vort, it is not common (very rare) for mortals to experience someones presents from the other side of the veil.

Are members of the L.D.S. Church wanting to "feel" the presence of someone when they attend the Temple? Are they looking for comfort in doing so?

I did genealogy at the Family History Library in Salt lake City for 16 years. I spent a many years of my time there as a Library volunteer. I have heard lots of stories that may or may not be true.

Everything that we do in society presents the idea of "ghosts" as being an entertainment value (the fun of scaring someone/people in some way or a scary movie that scares someone/people). The therapist tells someone that he/she need more drugs because of a paranormal experience. This, of course, will marginalize the true nature and meaning of the world beyond our current condition as mortals. We speculate about life on the "other side" so that we can console ourself and others.

However, we do not know what happens after life. People place restrictions on what life (pre-mortal, mortal, and post-mortal) is in relationship to the big picture. If Jesus, who is a dead mortal, comes to visit everyone will run for the hills. He should scare them into having heart attacks.

However, we have been numbed to the fact of life before birth and after death. If Jesus were to come and walk among us we would lock him up. Simply because he would not be within our pre-conceived idea of how events should occur before his physical presents. Of course prophecy must be fulfilled. But what would keep him from visiting, simply to visit?

I have had many a experience with people from the other side of our dual existence. Of course, if we believe in a God, we understand that we are both mortal and spirit. Why is it hard to put together that there are people that we can see without bodies (those who have had bodies, now dead - those that never had bodies, angels and Lucifers followers alike)? My experience with "people" from the other side is not within my capacity to have control over. In other words, I do not choose to make their presents known to me. And how or why they make themselves known to me is something I do not understand.

People can point fingers at someone that is open about their paranormal experience. However, this is why people do not share their own paranormal experience with others. I believe in life before birth and life after death. To deny one or both disregards that God created us. Jesus was not born, was not resurrected, nor can he return without an understanding that life is eternal. Mortality is simply birth and death of the moral body. Why do we limit ourselves to the now? Why restrict ourselves to our mortal understanding of a world beyond us that we do not understand?

Because I have not gone though the L.D.S. Temple. I get a statement from members of the L.D.S. Church that some how one needs to go through the L.D.S. Temple to experience people's presents beyond the veil. This statement is not made by a very informed group of people. The idea of paranormal experience being given to an exclusive group is hmmmm ... beyond me.

I do not share, in anyway, my paranormal experience with people of other faiths. They are numbed to believe that paranormal experience are of evil spirits (at least in my understanding, as it appears they tell me of their belief, which very conditional).

The sad part of both L.D.S. church members and non-L.D.S church members is that neither party understands what evil is here upon the earth. Evil is practiced by mortals and we think in restrictions as to how that evil is be practiced.

It will surprise all us when we arrive at the moment of understanding of true pre-mortal, mortal and post-mortal existence, and how evil is practiced in our lives from both sides of the veil and by whom it is practiced.

Edited by Speakzeasy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a fairly recent convert. I can't go into details, but when I did my endowments I had absolute 'spiritual' proof that a close relative was with me and approved of my becoming fully Mormon. I have since had another experience in the temple that confirms for me that I am on the right track. I am glad to have these feelings and experiences as the temple, of all places, is the place to think of our connection to our families.

I don't see these experiences as the same as 'consulting with the dead.' It's not a Ouija board.

Edited by dahlia
clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my 44 years in the church I have heard of stories of temple experiences, but I have never had any to speak of. I have had many outside though. I was also visited by three members of my family who passed many years ago and know they pay attention to the goings on in our lives.

Dahlia said it well for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the difference lies in the fact that we cannot contact anyone that has passed on through death - BUT - and this is a most important difference and "But" - we can be contacted by someone that has passed on. It is obvious to me (through my own experience) that we cannot possess any special ability to facilitate or guarantee such experience but whatever it is that brings such experience is completely outside of what we are capable of.

I believe that what scripture warns us against is the effort to initiate contact or to think that someone has some unique ability to contact those that have passed on.

I once spent 40 days fasting in the wilderness thinking to obtain a visit by some divine being - though the experience was of great personal value and of great spiritual value throughout my life - I was not able to bring about an actual visitation. Years later I would learn that I cannot have any control over such things.

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I've done baptisms for the dead and unfortunately, I haven't yet had the experience of "communicating" with my relatives. Although, I do feel that peace of confirmation from the spirit that I did the right thing.

But yes, I don't think the account in the book is creepy at all. I mean, I don't see Joseph Smith visited by dead people as creepy, so this is just par for the course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: A few days have passed since I asked the original question. Thanks to everyone to replied. The story took an interesting turn today.

I went to a wedding this afternoon. The couple had met on an Oct 31st some years ago, and they wanted their wedding to be on Oct 31st, even though it was Halloween. It was a very religious Protestant service and it was magnificent.

At the end, the minister noted that today was Halloween and said that on this day "the veil between the living and the dead is thin" and that "the presence of those who have gone before us is with us right now and I can feel their joy at the marriage of --- and ---."

So perhaps the LDS thinking about this veil isn't so scary and unfamiliar after all. ZG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this