Electoral College

[anatess2]

17 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

Okay here is something you may not know.  The drug cartels in Mexico have been moving into new markets.  One of the big problems in Mexico is that the drug cartels have been stealing from the Mexican government oil companies.  They are taking crude and refined products and selling their stolen property on the black market.  Exxon Mobile is one of their biggest customers.

 

The Traveler

Sorry, dude.  I live in Texas part time.   You should not peddle in Fake News.

These investigations have been going on since 2009.  After years of investigations and lawsuits, several US entities have been charged with the felony in 2012 including Trammo, Big Star, F&M, and Superior Crude.  Western Refinery, Conoco, and Shell were  found not guilty.  Exxon wasn't even involved in the lawsuit.

On the other hand, Exxon and Hess collaborated on a joint bid to drill oil in Mexico offshore.  Mexico was supposed to grant the bid last year but I haven't kept up with it to know if Exxon won the bid.

 

[Traveler]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Sorry, dude.  I live in Texas part time.   You should not peddle in Fake News.

These investigations have been going on since 2009.  After years of investigations and lawsuits, several US entities have been charged with the felony in 2012 including Trammo, Big Star, F&M, and Superior Crude.  Western Refinery, Conoco, and Shell were  found not guilty.  Exxon wasn't even involved in the lawsuit.

On the other hand, Exxon and Hess collaborated on a joint bid to drill oil in Mexico offshore.  Mexico was supposed to grant the bid last year but I haven't kept up with it to know if Exxon won the bid.

 

Sorry; my source is in Mexico.  Since 2012 the problem with stolen petroleum has increased.  Black market petroleum is currently the #1 border problem in Mexico and according to my sources the USA has done less to help Mexico on this issue than any other border problem.  Tillerson may be 100% innocent.  He may be a good guy – to some.  But he is the most powerful non-government person in the world.

But here is a thought.  In Japan when a company has a layoff it is considered such a disgrace that the CEO will resign – without benefits.  It used to be (100 years ago) that the CEO would take his own life because of the disgrace.   In the USA when a company has a layoff the CEO will get a multimillion dollar bonus for right sizing and keeping the company profitable.  

Example – I was one of two principle engineers for a leading company (that had 90% of the market share in its industry).  One day (just after 9/11) the company had an all hands meeting and announced a 30% layoff and a 10% reduction in pay for all employees as necessary to keep the company solvent because of a 680 million dollar loss.  They announced that management would take a 25% cut in pay and then asked if there were any questions.  I raised my hand and pointed out that I had been personally involved with every proposal for work over the previous 2 years and I knew that there was not a single project that had lost money the since I had been brought on as a principle engineer.  That no engineer was involved in any loss to the company.  That the top management (including board of directors) had failed in expansion efforts into other markets and had purchased a company with the 680 million dollar debt.  And that it appeared to me – no one in management was being held accountable or laid off but rather what was happening was to preserve bonuses for those that caused the problem.

Of course the company went forward with their plan – but they did fire their CFO and blame him for all the loses – management got their multimillion dollar bonuses (small sacrifice from their pay cut).  I was laid off but started my own company and am personally much better off.  The result was – many jobs lost – Oh BTW - the company has fallen to less than 15% market share and was sold – but the top management – they just moved on and since have taken several other companies down the same path.

For the record – I have always been conflicted with Romney – I know he was and is a “good” member of our church – but I have always been concerned with his life style.  And so you know – my father was also very wealthy but did not believe in the wealthy life style.  He believed that no one should ever own anything that they did not take care of themselves.  Yah, he would not even take a car to be fixed and I grew up with one junk car in the family and if we wanted to use it as a teenager we had to help keep it running and if you are wondering – I was expected to pay for my own mission and education as well as participate in my own health care costs and family vacation costs as a youth.  My first paying job was when I was 8 and I was expected to purchase my own clothing after that age.  We grew most of our own food (including rabbits and chickens for meat) and hunted for extra meat. 

I think I see the world differently because of my upbringing.

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Sorry; my source is in Mexico.  Since 2012 the problem with stolen petroleum has increased.  Black market petroleum is currently the #1 border problem in Mexico and according to my sources the USA has done less to help Mexico on this issue than any other border problem.  Tillerson may be 100% innocent.  He may be a good guy – to some.  But he is the most powerful non-government person in the world.

But here is a thought.  In Japan when a company has a layoff it is considered such a disgrace that the CEO will resign – without benefits.  It used to be (100 years ago) that the CEO would take his own life because of the disgrace.   In the USA when a company has a layoff the CEO will get a multimillion dollar bonus for right sizing and keeping the company profitable.  

Example – I was one of two principle engineers for a leading company (that had 90% of the market share in its industry).  One day (just after 9/11) the company had an all hands meeting and announced a 30% layoff and a 10% reduction in pay for all employees as necessary to keep the company solvent because of a 680 million dollar loss.  They announced that management would take a 25% cut in pay and then asked if there were any questions.  I raised my hand and pointed out that I had been personally involved with every proposal for work over the previous 2 years and I knew that there was not a single project that had lost money the since I had been brought on as a principle engineer.  That no engineer was involved in any loss to the company.  That the top management (including board of directors) had failed in expansion efforts into other markets and had purchased a company with the 680 million dollar debt.  And that it appeared to me – no one in management was being held accountable or laid off but rather what was happening was to preserve bonuses for those that caused the problem.

Of course the company went forward with their plan – but they did fire their CFO and blame him for all the loses – management got their multimillion dollar bonuses (small sacrifice from their pay cut).  I was laid off but started my own company and am personally much better off.  The result was – many jobs lost – Oh BTW - the company has fallen to less than 15% market share and was sold – but the top management – they just moved on and since have taken several other companies down the same path.

For the record – I have always been conflicted with Romney – I know he was and is a “good” member of our church – but I have always been concerned with his life style.  And so you know – my father was also very wealthy but did not believe in the wealthy life style.  He believed that no one should ever own anything that they did not take care of themselves.  Yah, he would not even take a car to be fixed and I grew up with one junk car in the family and if we wanted to use it as a teenager we had to help keep it running and if you are wondering – I was expected to pay for my own mission and education as well as participate in my own health care costs and family vacation costs as a youth.  My first paying job was when I was 8 and I was expected to purchase my own clothing after that age.  We grew most of our own food (including rabbits and chickens for meat) and hunted for extra meat. 

I think I see the world differently because of my upbringing.

 

The Traveler

None of anything you say has anything to do with Tillerson's character nor his ability to run the State Department.  Yours is a discrimination against success and there's really nothing I can say to you that would change that.

[Guest MormonGator]

27 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 But he is the most powerful non-government person in the world.

 

Not even close to being accurate. "Power" is such a hard thing to describe. Athletes have a lot of power. Celebrities have a lot of power. Some would argue that the have more power than government leaders. 
 

 

32 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

I think I see the world differently because of my upbringing.

 

Everyone sees the world differently because of their upbringing. 

[Traveler]

Just now, anatess2 said:

None of anything you say has anything to do with Tillerson's character nor his ability to run the State Department.  Yours is a discrimination against success and there's really nothing I can say to you that would change that.

 

You missed my point - mine is a discrimination against what many call a successful life style.  As near as I have been able to determine my views are similar to what Jesus expressed to a certain young man that like so many others - see nothing wrong with the successful life style.  As I have stated I was raised in the home of a multi millionair that did not live like one.  I was taught to understand that a high life style plays either directly or indirectly into the purposes and intents of Satan.  That the Book of Mormon reference to "fine apperal" is in my mind symbolic of our very affluent society and our attachment to it.

 

The Traveler

 

[Traveler]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Not even close to being accurate. "Power" is such a hard thing to describe. Athletes have a lot of power. Celebrities have a lot of power. Some would argue that the have more power than government leaders. 

 

How dependent are you, your family and friends on the price and availability of gas?  Do you even go to church without using gasoline?

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Traveler said:

How dependent are you, your family and friends on the price and availability of gas?  Do you even go to church without using gasoline?

In reality, we should be thanking gasoline companies for providing fuel to us so cheaply. You are way off with this. 

[Traveler]

For the record – there are many very wealthy LDS folks that you would never know were wealthy.  Last week I was in New York meeting with some folks.  One in particular was a billionaire that is a personal friend of mine.  I had gone out for something to eat and ran across the billionaire wife – that with some friends was eating in the freezing cold of NYC from a vendor.   Moments before she had turned over a check for over $600,000 to an artistic charity.  I happen to know that the people that accepted the check ate better for lunch that day than did this very rich lady.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In reality, we should be thanking gasoline companies for providing fuel to us so cheaply. You are way off with this. 

 

Do you know what a flaxen thread is?

 

The Traveler

[zil]

23 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In reality, we should be thanking gasoline companies for providing fuel to us so cheaply. You are way off with this. 

That's it!  I'm never washing my hair or using nail polish ever again!  Wait, I never have used nail polish.  Can I justify washing my hair 40 more times (at least)?  PS: You should have put inkjet printer ink up there (roughly $3,482 / gallon).

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

That's it!  I'm never washing my hair or using nail polish ever again!  Wait, I never have used nail polish.  

Notice that @zil didn't say "I've never drank Dom or Guinness before." 

(I'm giving away compound secrets) 

[zil]

Just now, MormonGator said:

(I'm giving away compound secrets) 

Dude!  Look at your own post.  This joint (er, not the mj kind) is expensive!  Stop giving secrets away when you could at least sell them!  (Accept no less than $796 / gallon.)

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, zil said:

  This joint (er, not the mj kind) is expensive! 

@mirkwood now she's talking about drug use!

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

 

You missed my point - mine is a discrimination against what many call a successful life style.  As near as I have been able to determine my views are similar to what Jesus expressed to a certain young man that like so many others - see nothing wrong with the successful life style.  As I have stated I was raised in the home of a multi millionair that did not live like one.  I was taught to understand that a high life style plays either directly or indirectly into the purposes and intents of Satan.  That the Book of Mormon reference to "fine apperal" is in my mind symbolic of our very affluent society and our attachment to it.

 

The Traveler

 

I did not miss your point.  You simply are trying to redefine it in every post.

You have never made any mention of Tillerson's lifestyle, therefore, that is not part of any of your objections about him.  Your objection is very simple - he's the CEO of Exxon.  His success in life that earned him the top executive spot in Exxon is what you are against pointing to his "power" as the root of evil.  It is so bad that you feel obliged to smear his character by falsely assigning him to criminal activity.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I did not miss your point.  You simply are trying to redefine it in every post.

You have never made any mention of Tillerson's lifestyle, therefore, that is not part of any of your objections about him.  Your objection is very simple - he's the CEO of Exxon.  His success in life that earned him the top executive spot in Exxon is what you are against pointing to his "power" as the root of evil.  It is so bad that you feel obliged to smear his character by falsely assigning him to criminal activity.

 

Whatever else is said about Tillerson, I appreciated his "A little bit of both" response.  Masterful.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Whatever else is said about Tillerson, I appreciated his "A little bit of both" response.  Masterful.

He's very smooth. 

Part of the reason people hate Tillerson is because he's a successful CEO. People think they could do his job better than he could, which is complete garbage. 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

He's very smooth. 

Part of the reason people hate Tillerson is because he's a successful CEO. People think they could do his job better than he could, which is complete garbage. 

Or that he didn't deserve an exorbitant paycheck.

[anatess2]

16 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Whatever else is said about Tillerson, I appreciated his "A little bit of both" response.  Masterful.

I have to say, watching him trying to wade through the political circus of his confirmation hearing made me cringe a few times (Russia and Climate Change) thinking, "Man, he's gonna get eaten alive!"  But yeah, he had no problem just saying it like it is and left the cards on the table.  I had no similar fears for Sessions.  He was super savvy standing up to the viciousness of the racism charges.  His lengthy political experience absorbing those accusations on full display.

 

[mirkwood]

6 hours ago, MormonGator said:

@mirkwood now she's talking about drug use!

I'll talk with her stake president.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, MormonGator said:

@mirkwood now she's talking about drug use!

She could be talking about chiropractic

http://www.thejoint.com/

[Guest]

19 hours ago, MormonGator said:

In reality, we should be thanking gasoline companies for providing fuel to us so cheaply. You are way off with this. 

I don't even buy half the stuff on this list.  No, Gator, it isn't the hygeine products.

[Guest MormonGator]

53 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I don't even buy half the stuff on this list.  No, Gator, it isn't the hygeine products.

LOL! That's awesome 

[unixknight]

21 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Not even close to being accurate. "Power" is such a hard thing to describe. Athletes have a lot of power. Celebrities have a lot of power. Some would argue that the have more power than government leaders.

[Traveler]

22 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I did not miss your point.  You simply are trying to redefine it in every post.

You have never made any mention of Tillerson's lifestyle, therefore, that is not part of any of your objections about him.  Your objection is very simple - he's the CEO of Exxon.  His success in life that earned him the top executive spot in Exxon is what you are against pointing to his "power" as the root of evil.  It is so bad that you feel obliged to smear his character by falsely assigning him to criminal activity.

 

 

A little more refinement:  I do not actually oppose Tillerson but I am skeptical.   Not as a single appointment but as another piece of the general puzzle that is taking place in the cabinet.  I also realize that the DC swamp need to be drained.   Obviously I believe the corporate model in the USA is both flawed and corrupt.  That someone is an expert in that model and does not want it to change – except to limit oversite and transparency - is troubling to me (i believe that big government and big business both need the same kind of limits, oversite and restrictions).  For me there is too much power concentrated in the corporate industrial complex.  Too much cross breading in boards of directors – especially with competing businesses (that there is a corporate as well as political class of privlidge in this society).  I believe such connections and self oversite to be contrary to capitalistic principles and free markets.  The thought of giving the corporate class royalty type privilege and status – bothers me a lot.

I would feel a little better if individuals like Ben Carson or Herman Cain were given a more prominent role in this administration for the draining the swamp business.

But there is one other thing that bothers me about Trump and his cabinet – All the opposition I am seeing to the Trump administration appears to me to be 100% political and this has the look to me of a turf war – competing interests in a power struggle.  But to be honest I really do not feel that I have a clear enough view to openly have a valued point of view but rather I am getting a feeling that with all going on behind the seen that we are on a path that will not benefit the middle class and traditional families as the top class (life style) in our society – That the real solution will only come with the second coming.

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

A little more refinement:  I do not actually oppose Tillerson but I am skeptical.   Not as a single appointment but as another piece of the general puzzle that is taking place in the cabinet.  I also realize that the DC swamp need to be drained.   Obviously I believe the corporate model in the USA is both flawed and corrupt.  That someone is an expert in that model and does not want it to change – except to limit oversite and transparency - is troubling to me (i believe that big government and big business both need the same kind of limits, oversite and restrictions).  For me there is too much power concentrated in the corporate industrial complex.  Too much cross breading in boards of directors – especially with competing businesses (that there is a corporate as well as political class of privlidge in this society).  I believe such connections and self oversite to be contrary to capitalistic principles and free markets.  The thought of giving the corporate class royalty type privilege and status – bothers me a lot.

I would feel a little better if individuals like Ben Carson or Herman Cain were given a more prominent role in this administration for the draining the swamp business.

But there is one other thing that bothers me about Trump and his cabinet – All the opposition I am seeing to the Trump administration appears to me to be 100% political and this has the look to me of a turf war – competing interests in a power struggle.  But to be honest I really do not feel that I have a clear enough view to openly have a valued point of view but rather I am getting a feeling that with all going on behind the seen that we are on a path that will not benefit the middle class and traditional families as the top class (life style) in our society – That the real solution will only come with the second coming.

 

The Traveler

All of the above is a valid concern.  I have no problem with that at all.  What I have a problem with is how that concern warrants this reaction:

 

On 12/12/2016 at 0:27 AM, Traveler said:

I am starting to feel buyer’s remorse.   I had high hopes for Trump because I saw him as a nonpolitician and Washington outsider.  However, the only thing that worries me more than big government is big business.   I believe the potential for evil is greater with big business than big government.  The money to corrupt big government comes from and through big business.

If Trump nominates Exxon Mobil CEO (the world’s single largest corp.) Tillerson as secretary of State – I am officially off the Trump bandwagon and any hopes I had are off the table.  It is hard to believe that someone would be worse than Hillary.  As bad as the economy is and as much as the economy could use some attention – there are things more important than economy – like freedom, liberty and justice – the same justice for everyone.

 

The Traveler