Can we really become gods?

[Guest]

The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts? The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods and one Bible verse says something like there are no other gods than me, but if we believe in becoming gods then there must be countless numbers of them, even before Heavenly Father, our God. Does it seem too good to be true, or is it a very real reality that the missionaries just avoid teaching and the prophets have avoided saying the word gods in General Conference. Does that make us believe in multiple and many gods? Do you want to be one?

[Guest]

In primary Sunday school one day I was taught that we could one day create worlds so we spent the class drawing and designing different planets. It was fun for an 8 year old but I never imagined literally being a god and having powers like Heavenly Father. 

[Just_A_Guy]

We don't use the terminology, because it's not supposed to be a "selling point" in conversion.  We don't want a bunch of converts who are trying to figure out what hoops to jump through in order to live out their Thor fantasies in eternity.  We want converts who understand how desperately they need Jesus Christ, are painfully aware of what He has saved them from, will do all in their power to help others avoid the sort of destruction they know they themselves once faced, and will follow Him devotedly thereafter to whatever end He leads. 

Now, we know that it's a very glorious end.  We know that being what God is, and doing what He does, is the essence of exaltation (Moses 1:39 and all that).  But the prospect of one day wielding phenomenal cosmic power, is not why we do what we do--and if we ever allowed it to become so, we would find ourselves very quickly on the highway to hell just as Lucifer did.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Bad Karma]

The answers you seek are here.

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

As for me, do I want to become a God, I am grateful for salvation, my wife, my family, and to dwell with my family in the celestial kingdom for time without end. I am comfortable with the thought of the divine if it means I get to create a really cool world for my family and I. 

Do I want to have a "Peoeple"? Nope... 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

In primary Sunday school one day I was taught that we could one day create worlds so we spent the class drawing and designing different planets.

Sounds like there was a Primary teacher who desperately needed to counsel with the Primary president, or maybe the bishop.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

We don't use the terminology, because it's not supposed to be a "selling point" in conversion.  We don't want a bunch of converts who are trying to figure out what hoops to jump through in order to live out their Thor fantasies in eternity.  We want converts who understand how desperately they need Jesus Christ, are painfully aware of what He has saved them from, will do all in their power to help others avoid the sort of destruction they know they themselves once faced, and will follow Him devotedly thereafter to whatever end He leads. 

Now, we know that it's a very glorious end.  We know that being what God is, and doing what He does, is the essence of exaltation (Moses 1:39 and all that).  But the prospect of one day wielding phenomenal cosmic power, is not why we do what we do--and if we ever allowed it to become so, we would find ourselves very quickly on the highway to hell just as Lucifer did.

You have a good point. I will ask a question here instead of maKing a new thread. Do we pay more attention to Jesus than God? We are told we can't achieve any thing without Jesus and His atonement. But what about God? Scriptures say Jesus does all the judging. But what about Heavenly Father? Do we pay enough attention to God and why do we focus on Jesus more if God is our Father and higher up?

[Just_A_Guy]

15 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

You have a good point. I will ask a question here instead of maKing a new thread. Do we pay more attention to Jesus than God? We are told we can't achieve any thing without Jesus and His atonement. But what about God? Scriptures say Jesus does all the judging. But what about Heavenly Father? Do we pay enough attention to God and why do we focus on Jesus more if God is our Father and higher up?

In one sense, it's easy to focus on God the Son; because He is the one who lived on this earth like us; it is His example we seek to emulate; and in the vast majority of scripturally-recorded cases where people saw "God", they were seeing Jesus Christ. 

But when we say our morning prayers, and our meal prayers, and our family prayers, and our evening prayers--it's to the Father, not the Son, that we pray.  We love, revere, and emulate Jesus; and we look to Him as a source of power and grace.  But as some Church leaders--notably Elder McConkie--have forcefully observed; it is with the Father, not the Son, that we seek to build an intimate and personal relationship.  The more meaningful we can make our prayer life, and the more confident we become in the revelations we have received individually; the less worried we will be that we may be over-emphasizing the Son at the expense of the Father.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Bad Karma]

24 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

You have a good point. I will ask a question here instead of maKing a new thread. Do we pay more attention to Jesus than God? We are told we can't achieve any thing without Jesus and His atonement. But what about God? Scriptures say Jesus does all the judging. But what about Heavenly Father? Do we pay enough attention to God and why do we focus on Jesus more if God is our Father and higher up?

Do we pay more attention to Jesus more than God? Absolutely NOT. No, the other way around, Heavenly Father (Yaweh, Elohim) first, always first. He is THE GREAT I AM. 

Exodus 20:3 "Thou shall have no other Gods before me". 

 

We PRAY TO GOD in the name of his son,

John 16:6 " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

 

God (Yaweh, Elohim, the GREAT I AM) Judges, Jesus is our advocate (Defense attorney as it were)

John 2:1 " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous".

 

And there we have it, all is well. 

 

[bytebear]

God is a state of being, not a person.  God is a singular that represents a plural.  We will be in the family of God.  We will be family.  We will be God.  There is one family.  There is one God.  Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three exulted persons who are God.  There is one God.  

The state of being is defined in D&C 132:20

Quote

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

We are "gods" in that we currently have no end (we haven't been damned... yet).  And we have the potential to have all power and have angels subject to us.  But most of us aren't even close to that kind of spiritual fortitude, but we are promised that with faith we can move mountains, so the potential is in us.

Edited December 30, 2016 by bytebear

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, bytebear said:

God is a state of being, not a person.

For the record, I do not pray to a state of being. I pray to an individual person.

[SilentOne]

4 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods

You left out a couple words:

Quote

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And I feel like I was going to say something else but can't remember what that could have been, so I'll probably be by later with more thoughts.

[Guest]

When reading the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price, I always like to know when it's Heavenly Father talking and when it's Jesus talking. Is Heavenly Father the one talking to Moses, Adam, and Enoch in the Pearl of Great Price or is it pre mortal Jesus/Jehovah? I know for a fact the times Heavenly Father talks are in the New Testament and Book of Mormon when He proclaims; "This is my beloved Son, hear Him."

[Jane_Doe]

26 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

When reading the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price, I always like to know when it's Heavenly Father talking and when it's Jesus talking. Is Heavenly Father the one talking to Moses, Adam, and Enoch in the Pearl of Great Price or is it pre mortal Jesus/Jehovah? I know for a fact the times Heavenly Father talks are in the New Testament and Book of Mormon when He proclaims; "This is my beloved Son, hear Him."

The only things we know for sure the Father says is "This is my beloved Son, hear Him".  Christ/Jehovah is our advocate and mediator with the Father.  And hearing something from the Son is as good as hearing it from the Father because they are 100% united at one.

[Bad Karma]

2 hours ago, bytebear said:

God is a state of being, not a person.  God is a singular that represents a plural.  We will be in the family of God.  We will be family.  We will be God.  There is one family.  There is one God.  Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three exulted persons who are God.  There is one God.  

The state of being is defined in D&C 132:20

We are "gods" in that we currently have no end (we haven't been damned... yet).  And we have the potential to have all power and have angels subject to us.  But most of us aren't even close to that kind of spiritual fortitude, but we are promised that with faith we can move mountains, so the potential is in us.

My God doesn't have multiple personality disorder, He is GOD, AKA: Yaweh, Elohim THE NAME or THE GREAT I AM as per scripture, and LDS doctrine, He's not a State of being, he is a person, the most well defined one in history too. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bad Karma

[Guest]

I truly believe that we don't really have a full grasp of what Eternal Progression really means.  And it's difficult to separate doctrine from tradition and even false doctrine on the matter because it is so widespread in the culture of the Church.

True statements: We can become like God.  We will receive Eternal Life.  We will become exalted beings.

But what do those really mean?

Tradition and Church culture: We will make our own worlds, etc. in the context that our spirit offspring will then worship us as we worship our Heavenly Father.  This level of detail is conspicuously missing in scripture.  I haven't seen it.  There is enough that may hint or imply it.  But I haven't seen it explicit.  And I find such a belief problematic based on many of the doctrines that ARE clearly spelled out and what sealing is really about.

I guess we'll really find out when we get there.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Guest

[Anddenex]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts? The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods and one Bible verse says something like there are no other gods than me, but if we believe in becoming gods then there must be countless numbers of them, even before Heavenly Father, our God. Does it seem too good to be true, or is it a very real reality that the missionaries just avoid teaching and the prophets have avoided saying the word gods in General Conference. Does that make us believe in multiple and many gods? Do you want to be one?

First, "The idea of exaltation is wonderful that we get to return to live with God and Jesus and our family forever, but D&C 132 says that we can become actual gods. Does that ever seen too good to be true and have modern prophets and apostles backed off from this teaching so not as to weird out converts?"

Have modern prophets and apostles backed away from this teaching (too good to be true)? No. Prophets and apostles are focusing on what is most important, "Coming unto Christ." If we don't "Come unto Christ" then becoming like our Father in heaven will be the least of our worries. Prophets and apostles will expound upon doctrine as we are ready to receive it, in the meantime, we are able to learn principles of the eternities through the spirit and keep to ourselves what is received.

Second, "The first commandment given to Moses was to not have any other Gods and one Bible verse says something like there are no other gods than me, but if we believe in becoming gods then there must be countless numbers of them, even before Heavenly Father, our God."

The first commandment given to Moses is to have no other gods before him. The statement presented here is a common anti-Mormon statement. If Mormon's believe they can become gods then that breaks the first commandment. No it doesn't, not in the least. The family is the central unit of the gospel. The most important title held by God is that of "Father." There are no other fathers before my earthly father. When I became a father this did not reduce my father's presence, power, or authority. It actually enhances my father when I become a father myself, and so on and so forth. The same with the first commandment. Although my children love their Grandpa, he is still not "before" me and the relationship I have with my children.

Third, "Does it seem too good to be true, or is it a very real reality that the missionaries just avoid teaching and the prophets have avoided saying the word gods in General Conference."

I am not sure why the phrase "too good to be true" would be used in this scenario (appears possibly a person might be soaking in too much anti-Mormon literature). The potential reality of us becoming like our Father in heaven isn't essential knowledge for a person to be baptized into the gospel of Jesus Christ. Missionaries will focus on doctrines that are necessary to "Come unto Christ." We don't jump into Calculus when first learning math for a reason. In order to understand some doctrinal truths we need to have a good understanding of the basics. If we can't understand the basics, why focus on truths that require the basics to understand. Thus the Lord has specified that we should learn truth line upon line, precept upon precept. This question is usually a result from an anti-Mormon that will say something to this nature, "Ask missionaries about becoming Gods. They don't want to answer and they will avoid it because they know it isn't true," (or something to this nature). The word "gods" is unnecessary to say. So if they say or don't it doesn't matter; although, in our Pearl of Great Price the term "gods" is used during the creation, "So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them." (emphasis added) Not a big deal, nothing too good to be true.

Fourth, "Does that make us believe in multiple and many gods? Do you want to be one?"

No. No more than I believe in multiple fathers or many fathers, but I still only have one father before me. I want to receive all the Father hath, and whatever that entails in the eternities.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Anddenex

[bytebear]

22 hours ago, Vort said:

For the record, I do not pray to a state of being. I pray to an individual person.

Yes, you pray to God the Father.  You don't pray to God the Son or God the Holy Ghost.  You pray to one person who shares the same state of being as the other two.

[bytebear]

20 hours ago, Bad Karma said:

My God doesn't have multiple personality disorder, He is GOD, AKA: Yaweh, Elohim THE NAME or THE GREAT I AM as per scripture, and LDS doctrine, He's not a State of being, he is a person, the most well defined one in history too. 

Again, you are describing Jesus Christ.  Not the Father and not the Son.   God is contextually ambiguous.  As was said earlier, the Son can speak as the Father but both are God, yet, separate persons.

[bytebear]

Replace the word "God" with "Ward" and "Godhead" with "Bishopric" and "gods" with "members" and you will see that our church is established with the same order as heaven, from the First Presidency down.

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Yes, you pray to God the Father.  You don't pray to God the Son or God the Holy Ghost.  You pray to one person who shares the same state of being as the other two.

bytebear, your statement was:

23 hours ago, bytebear said:

God is a state of being, not a person.

This is untrue. God is indeed a person. I don't need to specify "God the Father". "God" suffices.

[bytebear]

No, God the Father is a person. God is a collection of persons.

Doctrine and Covenants 20:28

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

2 Nephi 31:21

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Edited December 30, 2016 by bytebear

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, bytebear said:

No, God the Father is a person. God is a collection of persons.

Doctrine and Covenants 20:28

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

2 Nephi 31:21

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

"O God, the Eternal Father..."

"God" refers to the Father. That it might also refer to the Son and/or the Holy Ghost, or be used as an appellation for all three together, does not negate the fact that "God" refers to the Father.

[Guest]

When I refer to people who can become gods, I always use lower case g's because I reserve upper case God for referring to Heavenly Father or the Godhead.

[bytebear]

5 hours ago, Vort said:

"O God, the Eternal Father..."

"God" refers to the Father. That it might also refer to the Son and/or the Holy Ghost, or be used as an appellation for all three together, does not negate the fact that "God" refers to the Father.

Depends on context, but I still say God does not exclusively refer to the Father, or a single person.

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Depends on context, but I still say God does not exclusively refer to the Father, or a single person.

Okay, now you're moving the goalposts. But that's okay. I agree with you: It depends on context, and the term "God" does not refer exclusively to that Being we call "the Father". But the same is true with the terms "Dad" and "Mom", yet those are still my names for my parents.