Who thinks the Word of Wisdom needs updating?

[Just_A_Guy]

21 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

The problem is that it is not a commandment and it is not enforced or taught publicly so its possible that those who are in violation are not aware of any type of spiritual consequence, if any. I saw my 52yr old uncle at a new years party last week and he and his wife have gained lots of weight since the last time I saw them a year ago, his belly looks like its holding triplets. He has also been the bishop in his ward the past 2 years. He and his wife were the most spiritually glowing people at the party.

Two things:

1) Of course it is a commandment that is taught.  What the Church fails (or declines) to do, is to penalize nonconformance.  Because how can one determine who is really noncompliant, versus who suffers from bad genes or some chronic condition?  Don't bishops have enough to do without becoming designated fat inquisitors?  And if enforcement is based on self-report of ingesting verboten substances--the trouble is you aren't talking about prohibiting a handful of easily-memorized substances; you're talking about probably a full third of Walmart's grocery section.  I can just see it now:  "Forgive me, o bishop, for I have sinned.  I ate a loaf of Sara Lee Whole Wheat Bread, not realizing that it wasn't Sara Lee Whole GRAIN bread".

2.  Your uncle, by your own admission, has the Spirit; meaning that the Lord has already either accepted or forgiven his dietary practices.  Who are you to tell the Lord that He has goofed; and to call down penalties against those He has declared clean?

[The Folk Prophet]

21 hours ago, Fether said:

Drinking 2 meters of soda a day is too. You may not get a reccemend revoked or lose a calling over it, but you will still lose the spirit, your priesthood will be diminished and the power and authority you carry will be restrained. D+C 89 and prophets teach pretty clearly we are suppose to take care of our bodies. 

I don't agree with this.

[The Folk Prophet]

A lot of people (a LOT) like to interpret section 89 of the D&C and define their interpretations as "against" the word of wisdom. The invalidity of this sort of thinking interests me. I think it may partially stem from the fact that word of wisdom lessons so often are taught in just this manner (either the teacher's interpretation or the classes). I think it's so cultural to think this way that it's hard to even speak against it. But I have a pretty strong opinion, and so I'll state it. Not taking care of one's health is not "against" the word of wisdom. Of course that's a semantic thing. What does "against" mean? What I read that most people think is that "against" means that if you do or don't do such-n-such that you're breaking commandments. This interpretation, in my opinion, is dead wrong except in the case of those specific things proscibed by the brethren (the big 4 and illegal drugs, etc.) The rest is counsel, and whereas it is, I agree, highly problematic to ignore counsel, it does not go "against" anything except counsel to not follow said counsel.

I do expect, actually, that the things proscribed by the brethren will be updated in regards to things like legalized recreational marijuana, as its use has been covered by "illegal" in the past and can't be so covered moving forward. But we'll see.

As to sugar and sodas and the like, the counsel has already been given. Ignore said counsel at one's own peril. No update required.

[NeuroTypical]

A lady in my ward got up one Fast and Testimony meeting, and used her time to call fat people to repentance.  

(It was almost as fun as the time another sister got up to condemn denim pants on women, and to tell deacons to not pee on the trees.)

((Both of those were almost as fun as the time a brother got up to argue with everyone about why the scripture he picked for his son's headstone meant what he thought it meant, and not what everyone was telling him it meant.))

(((Yes, I do have an interesting ward sometimes.)))

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yes, I do have an interesting ward sometimes.

This makes me understand my family in your neck of the woods a little better. 

[Vort]

55 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

((Both of those were almost as fun as the time a brother got up to argue with everyone about why the scripture he picked for his son's headstone meant what he thought it meant, and not what everyone was telling him it meant.))

Here's an example of a guy I would be willing to cut a lot of slack.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Here's an example of a guy I would be willing to cut a lot of slack.

Yeah, it seems like people could have the grace to leave the guy alone about his son's headstone. Good grief. 

[Guest MormonGator]

14 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Yeah, it seems like people could have the grace to leave the guy alone about his son's headstone. Good grief. 

I shouldn't say anything because I can be petty and trivial as well, but you'd be amazed over the issues that I've seen people go to war over. Doesn't surprise me. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by MormonGator

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

Legalizing recreational marijuana is a terrible idea. I've scene it affect people that I've known personally. They call it "the gateway drug" for a reason. When you make it legal, people don't see it as the drug it is and it becomes much easier for underage people to get their hands on it. I have some family in Oregon and it has become a HUGE problem there. When I go visit them, there's pot shops all over. Sometimes there is two or three that you can see from one spot. Sad. 

No  different than alcohol.

[Guest]

On 1/3/2017 at 5:17 PM, priesthoodpower said:

2016 was a learning year for my health because I was close to being pre-diabetic. I blame myself for getting out of the habit of exercise and becoming addicted to sugary drinks and fast foods. It has been really hard cutting out soda, hamburgers and other junk foods, I have lessen my intake but havent completely stopped. If the word of wisdom was updated to include abstaining from all coke and pepsi soda drinks I would have the motivation to cut it completely. Considering 600,000 americans die from heart disease (diet related) and only 160,000 die from lung cancer (tobacco) doesnt it make sense for our word of wisdom be updated? Doesnt Satan want us to be slaves to our bodies yet religion gives us commandments to follow that help prevent that from happening? Most commandants are over 100 years old and older.

Let's see how that would look.

Consider how many people reason that since coffee and tea have caffeine that any caffeine at all is against the word of wisdom.

Cut out soft drinks?  People will reason that anything with sugar in it is bad; or carbonation; or phosphoric acid; or...

So, sugar --  Almost any type of sauce is gone.  Any pre-packaged food is now gone.  No deserts.  95% of any drinks gone. Marinades gone.  No fruits -- yes, there would be a large minority of people who equate fructose to sucrose -- I'm one of them.  Sugar is in virtually everything we eat unless we take care to make things literally from scratch.  I make a spaghetti sauce that is fantastic.  I add no sugar.  But tomato sauce in a can already has sugar added.

Cut out fats?  Again, most sauces are gone.  Most pre-packaged foods are gone.  No meats at all.  No dairy except non-fat yuckyness.  No eggs.  No olive oil (which has a wealth of health benefits). 

Salt?  Uhmm.  We need electrolytes.  Hello!

Phosphoric acid?  We need phosphorus.  And phosphoric acid is among the more common forms that we eat it.  Additionally, when we consume phosphoric acid with calcium, the calcium is absorbed and incorporated into our bones more readily.

The fact is that it is almost impossible to avoid sugar or fats and still have a healthy diet.  We need the stuff to survive.  The D&C already tells us to eat things in moderation.  It already tells us to use wisdom in all we do.  If you're a glutton, you're already violating the WoW.  Do you really need someone to tell you this?  Do you really need the Lord to tell you this directly?  Because He already has.

If you're not a glutton, then use moderation anyway.  He's already told you to.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Guest

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

I think more along the lines of the current WOW that single out alcohol, tobacco, and coffee specifically, I would like to see mountain dew, pepsi and coca-cola added.

Why?  Your problem with diabetes is most likely as a result of the sugar, not the caffeine.  So, what would that do?  You'd just switch to Sierra mist.  Or if you still craved caffeine, you'd get some other non-name brand cola or Dr. Pepper or other similar drink.  Why single out Mt Dew?  Why not Mellow Yellow?  Just how would you word it to actually make sense without being a list a mile long?

You don't seem to be comprehending the fact that your problem is not just with caffeine or sugar.  It's with lack of moderation.  So, moderate.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

Quote

SECTION 58

  26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is ^acompelled in all things, the same is a ^bslothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Why?  Your problem with diabetes is most likely as a result of the sugar, not the caffeine.  So, what would that do?  You'd just switch to Sierra mist.  Or if you still craved caffeine, you'd get some other non-name brand cola or Dr. Pepper or other similar drink.  Why single out Mt Dew?  Why not Mellow Yellow?  Just how would you word it to actually make sense without being a list a mile long?

You don't seem to be comprehending the fact that your problem is not just with caffeine or sugar.  It's with lack of moderation.  So, moderate.

The biggest arguments in the LDS world aren't about church history.  They aren't about salvation. They aren't about politics. They are about the word of wisdom. 

You be nice young man! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The biggest arguments in the LDS world aren't about church history.  They aren't about salvation. They aren't about politics. They are about the word of wisdom. 

You be nice young man! 

I didn't realize I was coming off as offensive.

@priesthoodpower, please accept my statement here that I'm not intending to criticize you in any way with my previous comments.  I thought they were simply logical statements, and I intended no malice in making those posts.  

The main reason why the WoW hasn't been updated is that it doesn't need to be.  I'm saying the following, not by way of criticism, but to state simple logical facts.

1. We already are told about moderation.
2. We are already told about using wisdom in all our choices and actions.
3. We have a tremendous tool that we are all using right now called the internet that allows us to do countless methods of research (as we know how) to know what the latest understanding of health is, so we can hopefully find guidance by the Holy Ghost to help us make decisions on how best to take care of our temples.
4. If we made changes to the WoW every time some new thing came around, not only would the scriptures constantly be changing, but they'd also be incorrect.  Just think of how many times modern medicine has had to correct themselves on what is healthy or non-healthy.  Not only that, but the law of unintended consequences tells us that just making small changes/additions such as "Colas" has ripple effects that will continue this argument and go on and on to other items.  Don't believe it won't.

The Word of Wisdom was given by revelation from the Lord to a prophetic inquiry.  If the Lord hasn't seen fit to give us any further information or modification on the topic, then we don't need any further information or modification on the topic.  The Word of Wisdom was given in its form because of the Lord's wisdom, not man's.

And I believe it to be an error to believe the Word of Wisdom is our health code, just as it would be to say that the Bible's only importance is the Pauline Epistles.  Yes, the health aspect is important.  But if you believe that is all it is, you're really missing out.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

I didn't realize I was coming off as offensive.

You weren't my friend, just playing around. I have seen nasty little spats about the WoW. This wasn't one of them. 

[Guest Godless]

If your own well-being isn't enough to motivate you to live healthier, do it for someone else then. You have kids, right? Do it for them. Live healthy so you can enjoy many happy years with them and set a good example that they can follow.

 

I quit smoking cold turkey a little over 5 years ago. Not because it was bad for me, I honestly didn't care about that. I did it because my girlfriend (now my wife) was about to move to TX to move in with me and she gets severe asthmatic reactions to cigarette smoke. That was all the motivation I needed to quit instantly. I think if you try hard enough, you can find your own motivation without waiting for your god to spell it out for you.

[zil]

41 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You weren't my friend, just playing around. I have seen nasty little spats about the WoW. This wasn't one of them. 

That's only because no one's mentioned Dr. Pepper yet.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, zil said:

That's only because no one's mentioned Dr. Pepper yet.

Oh?

A-Hem!

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Why?  Your problem with diabetes is most likely as a result of the sugar, not the caffeine.  So, what would that do?  You'd just switch to Sierra mist.  Or if you still craved caffeine, you'd get some other non-name brand cola or Dr. Pepper or other similar drink.  Why single out Mt Dew?  Why not Mellow Yellow?  Just how would you word it to actually make sense without being a list a mile long?

You don't seem to be comprehending the fact that your problem is not just with caffeine or sugar.  It's with lack of moderation.  So, moderate.

 

[zil]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Oh?

A-Hem!

Quit ruining my jokes with your logic!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Quit ruining my jokes with your logic!

I'm sorry, but that is part of my job description: Party Pooper.  I'm just fulfilling my duties.

[Vort]

On 1/3/2017 at 7:37 PM, Eowyn said:

I'm actually kind of impressed that you've gone this long between fat-hating threads.

"Hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness." No less an authority than Isaiah, right there.

[askandanswer]

10 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

I submit it is already there.

¹⁰ And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man
¹¹ Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

Cannabis is an annual, dioecious, flowering herb.

Of course, you'll have to follow the Article of Faith that requires us to be subjects to the law of the land.  So, most of the issue with cannabis is not with the Church but with the DEA.

But, having said that, smart choices on the matter as a people who are to govern ourselves point to the mind-altering effects of whole marijuana which caused it to be on the DEA's prohibited list in the first place.  Therefore, the Church gave advicement to the people of Utah to oppose SB 73.  But, the Church made no such advicement against SB 89.

 

Same verse, different emphasis

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 89:10 - 11)
10  And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11  Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

Without this qualification, the WOW would be contradictory because in verse 8 it describes tobacco as a herb and says it is not good for man, whereas in verse 11, without the qualification of 'wholesome" in verse 10 it would say that we can use every herb, of which tobacco is one.
 

[Bad Karma]

23 hours ago, askandanswer said:

If there was to be an update to the WOW, it might be to clarify whether or not its ok to use medically prescribed marijuana. I suspect there are a variety of opinions and practices amongst members on this question based on differing interpretations of the WOW and some clarification might be helpful. 

There's been many of updates to the World Of Warcraft.... Wait, what? *tilt*