Who thinks the Word of Wisdom needs updating?

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, skalenfehl said:

Maybe I am a hypocrite.

We are all hypocrites, in fairness. Don't be too hard on yourself (and crucially, or on others) because of it. 

[skalenfehl]

Carborendum, I apologize for my sarcasm. If you're ever in Ogden, Utah, let's have lunch, my treat. Vort, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your approach.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, skalenfehl said:

Carborendum, I apologize for my sarcasm. If you're ever in Ogden, Utah, let's have lunch, my treat. Vort, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your approach.

Takes a lot of guts to apologize. You are a class act my friend. 

[Vort]

11 minutes ago, skalenfehl said:

Carborendum, I apologize for my sarcasm. If you're ever in Ogden, Utah, let's have lunch, my treat. Vort, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your approach.

My third son was born in Ogden while I spent a few months as a Wildcat. My brother still lives there. I rather liked it there.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, skalenfehl said:

Carborendum, I apologize for my sarcasm. If you're ever in Ogden, Utah, let's have lunch, my treat. Vort, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your approach.

I second Gator's comment.  That shows quite a bit of character.  It didn't go unnoticed.

[Blackmarch]

On 1/3/2017 at 5:17 PM, priesthoodpower said:

2016 was a learning year for my health because I was close to being pre-diabetic. I blame myself for getting out of the habit of exercise and becoming addicted to sugary drinks and fast foods. It has been really hard cutting out soda, hamburgers and other junk foods, I have lessen my intake but havent completely stopped. If the word of wisdom was updated to include abstaining from all coke and pepsi soda drinks I would have the motivation to cut it completely. Considering 600,000 americans die from heart disease (diet related) and only 160,000 die from lung cancer (tobacco) doesnt it make sense for our word of wisdom be updated? Doesnt Satan want us to be slaves to our bodies yet religion gives us commandments to follow that help prevent that from happening? Most commandants are over 100 years old and older.

 

i'd be hesitant to ask God to spell out every little detail. The israelites during the time of moses comes to mind.

at the end of the word of wisdom there is a promise that if you keep it you will be able to go to the temple. Anything that you have stewardship and control over that keeps you from being able to go to the temple ultimately is against the word of wisdom. IMO.

[Mike]

I feel empathy for anyone who feels "hooked" to any degree on substances. Seen a lot of people I cared about suffer.

[Scovy]

The day I have to give up bacon cheeseburgers is the day I become inactive.  

[dahlia]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:56 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

Huh? Who?

Seems an odd thing as the scriptures are explicit in stating that abstaining entirely from meat is not good.

Sorry to get back so late. Here are some choices; they may be repetitive.

http://www.mormonmatters.org/2010/04/11/mormon-vegetarianism/

http://ldsmag.com/discovering-the-word-of-wisdom-pioneers-the-most-vegetarian-general-conference/

http://www.ldsveg.org/ChrisFosterPhd.htm

[Guest]

The WOW should include energy drinks. Those things are horrible for the heart and body.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

The WOW should include energy drinks. Those things are horrible for the heart and body.

Those things are vile for you, I agree. Part of being an adult is making choices for yourself and living with the consequences-good and bad. We can't demand that the church tells us how to make every single decision in life. 

[The Folk Prophet]

On 2/4/2017 at 3:47 PM, Zarahemla said:

The WOW should include energy drinks. Those things are horrible for the heart and body.

So in response to this I googled it and read several articles on them. They almost all agreed that moderate usage was fine and that the over use was the real problem. I also found it funny how many times I saw coffee as a recommended replacement.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating energy drinks. Just reporting what I read.

That being said, I'm not sure there's a case for including them, particularly in that they're all ready includes within the general principles of taking care of our bodies, avoiding addictive substances, and plain old wisdom.

[The Folk Prophet]

On 2/4/2017 at 2:54 PM, dahlia said:

Sorry to get back so late. Here are some choices; they may be repetitive.

http://www.mormonmatters.org/2010/04/11/mormon-vegetarianism/

http://ldsmag.com/discovering-the-word-of-wisdom-pioneers-the-most-vegetarian-general-conference/

http://www.ldsveg.org/ChrisFosterPhd.htm

I found this all pretty suspect.

[Traveler]

 

Actually there have been times in human history that there have been efforts to update various commandments.  Jesus was once asked about updating the commandments and their priorities.  His response was if we just updated just two commandments: first to love G-d and second to love our neighbor that we would not need to update any other commandments.  That was 2,000 years ago – how did that work out????

Generally I think that for those that think updating commandments is worthwhile – might as well let them have at it.  And those that do not think updating commandments has value – they are welcome to that as well.  Where I have the most doubts are those that want to tell everybody else what they should be updating or not.  I believe we all should be the best examples of what we believe – but I do have my doubts about those that are about selling themselves as the best examples – I think I can figure out what a good example is; especially compared to a bad example. 

The first characteristic of a good example is discipline.  If someone does not live up to (discipline) what they think they believe – then they do not actually believe it.  Or as my brother would say – We all live by rules.  There are no exceptions. But whenever we make an exception – that becomes the new rule.  Some update their personal rules so poorly that they do not know themselves nor remember from day to day what their rule is.

 

The Traveler

[Suzie]

If we want to make changes to the WOW, then let me tell you...there won't be a section long enough to fit everything.

This is how I see it: If we are serious about our health, we will research and do what we need to do in order to take care of our bodies. We don't need extra scripture to tell us that eating meat until our eyes pop-out is bad or drinking soda every single day or sugar or mucus-forming dairy. We know these things aren't healthy, but we choose otherwise. I don't see how adding them in the WOW would make a difference to be honest.

I changed my lifestyle completely a while ago and decided to go Vegan. I couldn't be happier, even though weight was never an issue for me I wanted to be healthier and avoid illnesses of any kind and become super fit. The last time I was sick with the flu or any other illness was 2011. We are in 2017. Cholesterol, heart disease are ALL preventable! They shouldn't exist.

I feel passionate about the topic because I have seen the benefits that has brought to my life and even though often times I feel the urge to share with others how amazing this has been for me, I try my best to be sensitive about people's choices.

[Maureen]

4 hours ago, Suzie said:

...or mucus-forming dairy....

That is a myth, milk does not produce mucus.

M.

[Suzie]

9 hours ago, Maureen said:

That is a myth, milk does not produce mucus.

M.

I'm sorry Maureen, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. I have been studying this for years, there is so much more that meets the eye specially the amount of money that the meat, egg and dairy industry is willing to pay to make people believe otherwise and not lose money. If only people knew what these people are willing to do and they care nothing about our health. I always invite people to do their own research and not take my word for it. If you do not mind and you are interested, I will send you some links privately with a scientific-based approach if you wish to discuss this further, so the thread stays on topic.

[Maureen]

Hey @Suzie, I can agree to disagree. It only makes sense to provide information that agrees with our own views. I can find studies that agree with my pro-dairy stance.

M.

[hopeful]

Hi everyone I am recently becoming active after a 20+ year hiatus and I'm really happy with the decision for the most part.   I wanted to get further input on some of my questions on the unique circumstances on the word of wisdom.   I have a genetic gene mutation called hemochromatosis that causes your body to store excess amounts of Iron in the body this leads to serious health problems as I age if I don't treat it properly.    

Anyways, I asked during one of the missionary lessons (I'm getting my kids baptised) if me drinking decaf black tea  as recommended by drs, as the tannins in the tea leach out up to 90% of the iron from my meals...which is very big for us with this condition. I understand Tea is bad for the average person for the same reason its good for me.... obviously the average person doesn't want to have 90% of their iron removed from their meals.  I was very shocked at the answers they gave me they basically said no still not acceptable.  Then one basically said "go see a different Dr."  I'm thinking, this doesn't vary from dr to dr this is an absolute fact!  Then they went on to say they had a member suffering from chronic pain, or cancer, maybe both.  The person asked if they could use medical marijuana prescribed by their dr to reduce the pain and discomfort as their dr tried other things and finally they recommended trying this.  They  self rightously said no I would find another Dr..  I thought wow that's a bit arrogant!  are you the one with cancer or chronic pain? are you in this persons shoes?  is vicodin or percoset or other prescription narcotics any better?  I mean there is a huge grey area!  it's not as if medical marijuana is illegal in my state.  For the record I am against marijuana I'm not some hippy looking to promote legal marijuana etc I just think its a bit absurd to tell someone suffering that they shouldn't use it or try it to ease their suffering.     I'm starting to second guess my decision to come back to this church and especially to bring my family into it....does logic existent in the minds of some of these people?     interested to hear some thoughts from hopefully logical people...

[SilentOne]

My opinion is that if it was prescribed by a good doctor, you can take it as medication. Tea could very well be intended for such uses.

[mrmarklin]

Hopeful,

 

congratulations on returning to church. The missionary opinions are not church doctrine and please don't consider them determinative.  Do what your doctor recommends. 

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:44 AM, hopeful said:

Hi everyone I am recently becoming active after a 20+ year hiatus and I'm really happy with the decision for the most part.   I wanted to get further input on some of my questions on the unique circumstances on the word of wisdom.   I have a genetic gene mutation called hemochromatosis that causes your body to store excess amounts of Iron in the body this leads to serious health problems as I age if I don't treat it properly.    

Anyways, I asked during one of the missionary lessons (I'm getting my kids baptised) if me drinking decaf black tea  as recommended by drs, as the tannins in the tea leach out up to 90% of the iron from my meals...which is very big for us with this condition. I understand Tea is bad for the average person for the same reason its good for me.... obviously the average person doesn't want to have 90% of their iron removed from their meals.  I was very shocked at the answers they gave me they basically said no still not acceptable.  Then one basically said "go see a different Dr."  I'm thinking, this doesn't vary from dr to dr this is an absolute fact!  Then they went on to say they had a member suffering from chronic pain, or cancer, maybe both.  The person asked if they could use medical marijuana prescribed by their dr to reduce the pain and discomfort as their dr tried other things and finally they recommended trying this.  They  self rightously said no I would find another Dr..  I thought wow that's a bit arrogant!  are you the one with cancer or chronic pain? are you in this persons shoes?  is vicodin or percoset or other prescription narcotics any better?  I mean there is a huge grey area!  it's not as if medical marijuana is illegal in my state.  For the record I am against marijuana I'm not some hippy looking to promote legal marijuana etc I just think its a bit absurd to tell someone suffering that they shouldn't use it or try it to ease their suffering.     I'm starting to second guess my decision to come back to this church and especially to bring my family into it....does logic existent in the minds of some of these people?     interested to hear some thoughts from hopefully logical people...

Hopefully my mother forgives me for telling this story if she didn't want me to relate it.  However, I don't think she would mind, as she freely tells others about it.

My Great-grandfather suffered from some sort of condition when at his general store.  This was many decades ago.  He lived in Utah at the time.  The doctor prescribed that he drink one cup of coffee for it each day.  He did not hide this, and the stake Presidency and other Authorities knew about it.  It was viewed upon as medicine, as long as he took it as prescribed (in other words, he didn't drink it voraciously and constantly, even when he did not need to).  He was called as a Bishop and served faithfully.

In this way, what I'm saying is that if something is prescribed as medicine for a valid reason, do not discard valid medical treatments.  I am not your Bishop, your leader, or any other sort of figure that can dictate what you should or should not do.  However, when it comes to medicine, I know I am not a medical doctor and if given that scenario, I would not judge someone or tell someone to discard the advice of their doctor.

If you have major questions, perhaps you should ask the Bishop and even the Stake President on their opinion in this regards, as they have the leadership in your ward, stake and area.  My personal opinion as a non-medical individual is to let medicine be medicine, and the word of wisdom be the word of wisdom.  Taking medicine is no different than if I took any other medicine and it should be treated as such.  However, ensure that something is being taken as medicine, rather than exceeding what is necessary for pleasure (for example, as one put it above, pain meds at times get abused...there's a difference between using pain meds for medicine, and abusing those very same pain meds). 

Also, I am not a doctor, but a quick look appears to have alternate dietary ideas (such as drinking milk, though that is a non-solution if one is lactose intolerant), or having phlebotomy (blood drawn) and other ideas.  Whatever your doctor prescribed is what you need to do, but there may also be alternate ways to either assist or aid in iron reduction as well.

Hermachromatosis seems like a very serious ailment, and just like other ailments like diabetes or others, requires special attention to the diet and what one eats.  In these instances, I would probably listen to a doctor before listening to someone who is not only very young, but also is not a medical professional (at least, most missionaries I've seen are not medical professionals). 

[Maureen]

On 08/03/2017 at 10:44 AM, hopeful said:

Hi everyone I am recently becoming active after a 20+ year hiatus and I'm really happy with the decision for the most part.   I wanted to get further input on some of my questions on the unique circumstances on the word of wisdom.   I have a genetic gene mutation called hemochromatosis that causes your body to store excess amounts of Iron in the body this leads to serious health problems as I age if I don't treat it properly.    

Anyways, I asked during one of the missionary lessons (I'm getting my kids baptised) if me drinking decaf black tea  as recommended by drs, as the tannins in the tea leach out up to 90% of the iron from my meals...which is very big for us with this condition. I understand Tea is bad for the average person for the same reason its good for me.... obviously the average person doesn't want to have 90% of their iron removed from their meals.  I was very shocked at the answers they gave me they basically said no still not acceptable.  Then one basically said "go see a different Dr."...

My understanding is that you asked the Missionaries their advice and it was them that told you your "medicinal" tea was not acceptable. If the other posters are correct that tea is acceptable as medicine, then someone should inform these Missionaries that they are giving out wrong information.

M.

[Guest]

My brother-in-law has the same condition, and has to donate blood regularly to control it. I wonder if he knows about tea as a treatment. 

His son died suddenly from heart failure related to hematochromotosis. That's been about a month ago. He was 39. Not an active member of the church, but not the tea drinking type if I were to guess.

Anyway, it's obviously a serious condition but also not a well known one. Missionaries are young and enthusiastic and probably hear a lot of whoppers about why people can't observe the WoW. I'd say bring the mission pres and/or bishop in on it. Tell them you'll get a doctor's note if needed. 

[estradling75]

One of the things I have not seen address to @hopeful concern... is that she revisit the issue with her doctor to see if there are alternatives to the tea drinking.

There are and can be medical exemptions to the Word of Wisdom.  But it is also wisdom to accept that the Lord forbade coffee, and tea and the like in the Word of Wisdom for purposes that he considered wise.

Therefore if you in discussion with your Doctor can find another way to deal with your health concerns that allows you to keep the Word of Wisdom in full... you should do so.