Who is to blame for the recent hate crimes?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I thought this was a thought-provoking article. Possibly even something most of us can agree on, we'll see. 

This is about the recent hate crimes and who is to blame....

https://www.theelijahproject.org/single-post/2017/01/06/The-Coming-Storm

[zil]

Reaction before reading anything: Every person who has reached an age of maturity and who still has control of their own mind (e.g. not damaged or diseased) is responsible for their own actions.  Thus, the criminal is responsible for the crimes he commits.  The end.

I'll go read now.

[Just_A_Guy]

Some fine sentiments, and not altogether wrong; but the column overall smacks of a cop-out.  When everybody's guilty, no one is; and I think we all know what would happen if National Review or Fox News had produced similarly mealy-mouthed "we are ALL to blame" column in the wake of--say--the Charleston church shooting, or that Norwegian neo-Nazi's massacre from a couple of years ago.

This just comes back to an all-too-familiar paradigm:  violent right-winger = the fault of a sick conservative ideology; violent left-winger = the fault of a sick society (that will only be cured when enlightened progressives have fully subdued the conservative neanderthals who are responsible for the status quo).  Pile enough of these Catch 22s on top of each other, and viola!--you get a Trump in the White House.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[zil]

12 minutes ago, zil said:

Reaction before reading anything: Every person who has reached an age of maturity and who still has control of their own mind (e.g. not damaged or diseased) is responsible for their own actions.  Thus, the criminal is responsible for the crimes he commits.  The end.

I'll go read now.

I couldn't stand to read the whole thing - someone needs an editor.  I read key points and skimmed the yammering on.  I'm sticking with my original answer - each of us is responsible for our own actions (which include all the things we do, think, and say; or fail to do, think, and say).

[Windseeker]

I had no idea about that Idaho crime, it's just unacceptable. I don't agree with the shared responsibility garbage. 

Take that teen from Idaho and these 4 teens from Chicago and hang them publicly.

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, zil said:

 each of us is responsible for our own actions (which include all the things we do, think, and say; or fail to do, think, and say).

Correct. The blunt truth is no matter how bad your circumstances might be it doesn't give you the right to commit acts of violence towards ANYONE. Period. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Good points every one. See, what I liked about the article is the idea that we need to move away from the taking sides and blaming one another from our respective corners. 

For me what it means that we are all to blame, is not that we are actually guilty, but that we need to come together and take ownership of this problem...rather than simply blaming others. 

I liked your post @Just_A_Guy, you  made great points as always. I woyld add though that blaming the other political party and then doing nothing  (which is what usually happens) is a  cop out as well. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[Jane_Doe]

I'm all for addressing social problems, like things which perpetuate biases.  Those problem undeniably exist.  But I disagree with the idea "we are responsible for hate crimes".  The only person who is responsible for crimes is the criminal themselves.  We should address social problems because it's the right thing to do, not out a sense of guilt.

[Backroads]

Last year when the Idaho incident went down, I blamed entitled kids and clueless parents who didn't raise their kids to know better. In this incident, I've decided I also blame a bad family situation. Not that these kids, any of them, necessarily have all-out horrible families, but that they are victims in this war on the family. Which does affect society. I'm a bit of the rebel in my belief that Satan's war on the family is also a war on the community, but I stand by it. The basic family unit is falling to pieces and this in turn destroys the communities they are in.. and eventually, there goes society. I do not wish to make a concrete judgment, but two of the girls' grandmother raised them from babyhood and I can't help but wonder what went wrong with her own child that led to her raising these kids that led to these kids being monsters.

So, yes, I blame the war-on-the-family.

But, on the article of the OP, wow, I was a more than bit disgusted when everyone on the news sites was "Blame BLM!" "Blame Trump!" "Blame <insert disliked side of political spectrum>". If you disagree with whatever, what are you doing to positively remedy the problems you see?

Edited January 7, 2017 by Backroads

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@Backroads, I really like your point about the war on families affecting communities as well, and being a factor somehow in these cases. That is something I really hadn't thought of before, but now that you mention it...I should have. 

If I had the time (here I mean to say patience). I think it would be interesting to look for some stats about violence 50 yrs ago (or so) vs now. 

[Vort]

The whole idea of a "hate crime" is contrary to traditional American values.. We punish actions, not thought -- or at least, that's supposed to be the case. Besides, the very idea is stupid. "Hate crime" as opposed to -- what? Love crimes? People commit crimes because they are criminals, not because they are overflowing with an excess of charity and benevolence. Of course their crime is inspired by hate, or desperation, or something else. There is always a reason people do things. Remember the image of Lady Liberty blindfolded? There's a reason she's not supposed to peek.

Punish bad acts, not bad thoughts. I don't really give a hoot whether the black adults who beat up the white guy did it because they hate whites, or they hate Trump, or they simply like beating people up. Only in exceptional circumstances are the reasons for criminal activity at all relevant. Like, maybe if they thought he was on fire and they were trying to save him.

To restate: The whole idea of a "hate crime" is contrary to traditional American values.

[prisonchaplain]

I could have sworn the blame would end up being laid at either President Obama's or President-Elect Trump's feet. 

[wenglund]

Here is some science on the question: 

Thanks, Wade Englund

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@wenglund no offense intended, but you missed the whole point.  You didn't read the article did you?

You could read it and disagree, of course, but if you read it you would know about the story of the football players in Idaho (members of the church and likely Conservative) that viciously attacked and raped a mentally disabled teammate...my point here is that violence comes form both sides. Conservatives are violent; Liberals are violent. Humans in general are prone to violence. You cant blame it all on "the Leftists" or on the Rightists either. That's the whole point.

[Backroads]

I'd also add the side note that groups will naturally try to protect themselves against actions which make them look bad. So, @wenglund, it's fairly useless to use these incidents against groups who aren't protesting as much as you'd like them too. 

[a mustard seed]

I really like @Backroads mention of the war on families as well because it accounts for everybody in society no matter what your race or ideology. I don't think it's wrong to say we're all a part of the problem when we live in a society that encourages abortions and absentee parents(whether they're in jail or just using the nanny to raise their kids while they work). Everything from pop culture to government policies have worn away at the family unit. I'd go a step further and say there's also a strict absence of God in this culture as well, reviled and even made fun of or considered too stuffy or high brow to raise kids in a home that worships. I've even read the argument that raising kids with religion is tantamount to child-abuse, that's how bad our culture has gotten. Giving them something to believe in and a foundation to grow upon is considered encouraging "delusion." Meanwhile, they grow up without it and they fill their hearts with hate and anger instead and we hear about them on the news.

[wenglund]

57 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

@wenglund no offense intended, but you missed the whole point.  You didn't read the article did you?

You could read it and disagree, of course, but if you read it you would know about the story of the football players in Idaho (members of the church and likely Conservative) that viciously attacked and raped a mentally disabled teammate...my point here is that violence comes form both sides. Conservatives are violent; Liberals are violent. Humans in general are prone to violence. You cant blame it all on "the Leftists" or on the Rightists either. That's the whole point.

No, I didn't read the article. Nor did I say that I had. And, no, I didn't miss the point. I simply brought some science into the equation. If you watch the entire video I linked to you will learn that genetics/race is/are demonstrably the prevailing factors explaining crime and violence. The reason liberals are statistically more prone to violence is because leftist political philosophy tends to attract more violent races. 

In other words, scientifically, you are incorrect. Violence is not evenly distributed between the Left and Right or across the human spectrum.  There are huge disparities and clustering. As for blame, evolution may bear some responsibility. I hope this helps.

Thanks, Wade Englund-

Edited January 8, 2017 by wenglund

[wenglund]

45 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I'd also add the side note that groups will naturally try to protect themselves against actions which make them look bad. So, @wenglund, it's fairly useless to use these incidents against groups who aren't protesting as much as you'd like them too. 

Where have I done that?

Thanks, Wade Englund

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, wenglund said:

genetics/race is/are demonstrably the prevailing factors explaining crime and violence. The reason liberals are statistically more prone to violence is because leftist political philosophy tends to attract more violent races. 

Just saving this for posterity. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Eowyn

[wenglund]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Just sharing this for posterity. 

I hope the bewildered icon isn't an indication of science denial.

Thanks, Wade Englund

[Backroads]

But @wenglund, that video doesn't have a single peer-reviewed study.

[wenglund]

13 minutes ago, Backroads said:

But @wenglund, that video doesn't have a single peer-reviewed study.

Try Googling John Paul Wright on crime studies. You will find plenty of peer reviewed reading material for the next year or so. 

There is a plethora of other authoritative studies, including 

https://www.scribd.com/doc/305240780/The-Color-of-Crime

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=922

If you need more, I can provide them.

Thanks, Wade Englund

[Guest]

As long as we're talking about Hitler, I'm sure he and his comrades built up plenty of "scientific" evidence supporting Aryan supremacy. 

[wenglund]

6 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

As long as we're talking about Hitler, I'm sure he and his comrades built up plenty of "scientific" evidence supporting Aryan supremacy. 

Who said anything about supremacy? I know I didn't. Facts are facts. Don't be afraid of them. They can actually be very helpful.  I see, though, that Godwin's law is still alive and not-so-well on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Thanks, Wade Englund

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Who said anything about supremacy? I know I didn't.

Not in so many words.