Faith, understanding and truth.

[Traveler]

23 hours ago, Eydis said:

Does the veil qualify as a form of deception under your definition?  The veil keeps us from having the truth - IN ALL THINGS. 

 

Very good question.  And I must admit, at first blush, that would be the case.  However, it is my personal belief that there is more to mortality.  Perhaps something like the infamous test scenario in Star Trek called the “Kobayashi Maru” where the children of G-d are subjected to a no win scenario in which the only possible result is death (failure).  If we consider the parameters of our mortality between birth and death – then, yes mortality has all the elements of deception.  However, if we knew, in advance, all the parameters of mortality before we were born and made a knowledgeable decision to experience mortality based on that agreement – then deception is mitigated.

If, one the other hand, we are forced in mortality into situations, conditions, scenarios and choices that were not know to us before we chose to live with things veiled in mortality – then yes, we would definingly be suffering discerption and G-d would be the deceiver.   Many times, I have attempted to make this very point to our religious non-LDS cozens that do not believe in the pre-existence of humanity.

 

The Traveler

[Eydis]

On 3/9/2017 at 8:37 AM, Traveler said:

 

Very good question.  And I must admit, at first blush, that would be the case.  However, it is my personal belief that there is more to mortality.  Perhaps something like the infamous test scenario in Star Trek called the “Kobayashi Maru” where the children of G-d are subjected to a no win scenario in which the only possible result is death (failure).  If we consider the parameters of our mortality between birth and death – then, yes mortality has all the elements of deception.  However, if we knew, in advance, all the parameters of mortality before we were born and made a knowledgeable decision to experience mortality based on that agreement – then deception is mitigated.

If, one the other hand, we are forced in mortality into situations, conditions, scenarios and choices that were not know to us before we chose to live with things veiled in mortality – then yes, we would definingly be suffering discerption and G-d would be the deceiver.   Many times, I have attempted to make this very point to our religious non-LDS cozens that do not believe in the pre-existence of humanity.

 

The Traveler

I don't think we knew about some things we would face in mortality while in the premortal life as there is such a thing as experiential knowledge.  I liken it to a soldier in boot camp that swears they will go back to save their fallen soldier in battle but until they are actually in the heat of the battle they may not really realize what they had signed up for. Only the most heroic will actually go back to save their fallen fellow soldiers when faced with the horrors of battle and that is the true test of character, the oath before the battle is easily made but the true test of character is when one is disoriented by the confusion and threats during the battle.  Likewise only the most faithful and righteous will rise beyond the corruption we face in this life, the true test of our heart's desire. 

[Mike]

On 3/10/2017 at 8:56 AM, Eydis said:

I don't think we knew about some things we would face in mortality while in the premortal life as there is such a thing as experiential knowledge.  I liken it to a soldier in boot camp that swears they will go back to save their fallen soldier in battle but until they are actually in the heat of the battle they may not really realize what they had signed up for. Only the most heroic will actually go back to save their fallen fellow soldiers when faced with the horrors of battle and that is the true test of character, the oath before the battle is easily made but the true test of character is when one is disoriented by the confusion and threats during the battle.  Likewise only the most faithful and righteous will rise beyond the corruption we face in this life, the true test of our heart's desire. 

I agree with you. And I'm not sure I see what the point would have been in the pre-existence to have been informed about everything. Also, it seems to me that a "test" doesn't mean in all cases that you're in because you passed and out because you failed--a test is also valuable to inform one of what one really knows and doesn't really know.