Political correctness vs. Kindness


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I am wondering how people differentiate being politically correct vs. being kind. 

I do believe that the "PC" train gets out of control now and then. I am bored with social justice warriors. Not even irate, just bored. I have been witness to Kafka trapping and I think that's just hypocritical hate-mongering. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I am seeing is that since the presidential campaign started, more and more people unleash whatever nastiness they've been harboring in the name of "keeping it real". I hear lots of "Political correctness is ruining this country!" and "I'm tired of the PC police!" But people seem to be using it as an excuse to let loose their racism, misogyny, prejudice against other groups, or just to be rotten to someone.

I know what feels to me like kindness vs. political correctness, but I find it hard to define in words. What do you all think?

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Guest MormonGator
5 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I am wondering how people differentiate being politically correct vs. being kind. 

I do believe that the "PC" train gets out of control now and then. I am bored with social justice warriors. Not even irate, just bored. I have been witness to Kafka trapping and I think that's just hypocritical hate-mongering. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I am seeing is that since the presidential campaign started, more and more people unleash whatever nastiness they've been harboring in the name of "keeping it real". I hear lots of "Political correctness is ruining this country!" and "I'm tired of the PC police!" But people seem to be using it as an excuse to let loose their racism, misogyny, prejudice against other groups, or just to be rotten to someone.

I know what feels to me like kindness vs. political correctness, but I find it hard to define in words. What do you all think?

 I agree with you, I'm tired of the SJWs as well. I think there are SJWs on both the right and the left. The more extreme you get on both sides, the more thin skinned and lacking a sense of humor they get. It's the the same with religion too, sadly. The more extreme and dogmatic you are-the less likely you are to smile. Mathematical certainty. 
 
I got myself in trouble with the PC police in college. I was (and still am, even though it's been years. Yes, I carry grudges) bothered by it. I talked my way out of it and nothing came of it, but I know firsthand what it feels like to be targeted by SJWs. 

If you just "keep it real" and "speak the truth" you'll eventually find out that no one is listening to you. You need to find a balance between carrying the righteous sword of truth and unleashing it over the smallest thing-and being able to keep your mouth shut. It's hard, but most people do find the balance. 

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For me: 

"Political correctness" is pretty obvious ('don't you dare offend group X').  It's an annoying concept I would just rather do without.

"Kindness" = Love is kind, pure, charitable, of Christ.  I try to stress the trait as much as my flawed self can.  It also ties big into respecting other people and their views (even when they are stupid).  That doesn't mean I'm a doormat, and will stand up when something comes up, but try to do it respectfully.  When it comes to opinions, try to disagree without being disagreeable.

Everyone else: then again, I admit there is a point where I do hit the "mute" button on some people/issues.  Like politics, I'm just so sick of it, muting that discussion out.  It's fantastic if "Bob" is passionate about politics and wants to talk about it a lot- I don't need to stick around to listen.  

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Guest MormonGator
24 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

"Political correctness" is pretty obvious ('don't you dare offend group X').

We are all against thin skinned, easily offended jerks. But when someone says something about our own religion/political views/ethnicity/favorite sports team/favorite band the daggers come out! 
(Seriously, when someone says something about Air Supply, @mirkwood starts crying. He's a big fan) 

Edited by MormonGator
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Political correctness can be a dangerous thing.  

In Europe, people cannot have honest, frank conversations about the threat of encroaching radical Islam because political correctness has actually legally trumped free speech to some degree.  Honest men, including many normal Muslims in Europe, who are trying to address the looming threat of radical Islam cannot have direct, effective conversations about these issues because of runaway political correctness.  That's the thing about political correctness - it is imposed, either by law (as is the case in Europe), or by societal norms (as is the case here - for now).  The result has helped turn Europe into a breeding ground for Islamic radicalism as well as a breeding ground for a reactionary far right.  I served my mission partially in Molenbeek so I know a thing or two about this!

As for kindness, that is a voluntary personal choice to act more like Christ.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Guest Godless

It's a delicate balance, to be sure. In regards to Islam, I know I've mentioned before how there's a very fine line between calling Islamic terrorism what it is and using it as an excuse to persecute/profile against Muslims in general. I'm all for blunt honesty in public discourse, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally step back and make sure that "telling it like it it" isn't igniting dangerous ideologies. That's the funny thing about rhetoric. Two public figures can convey the exact same message, but mobilize very different segments of society based on how they deliver their message. I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with some of the groups of people that have started coming out of the woodwork recently as a result of "telling it like it is". 

FWIW, I agree that PC culture has gotten a bit out of hand. This became inescapably clear to me when a very close long-time friend of mine began worrying about her use of the word "y'all" because she read somewhere that it might have roots in 19th Century slave culture. That level of concern about cultural appropriation is absurd, imo. Then again, I remember the days of my youth playing "cowboys and Indians" and using the words "gay" and "retarded" to describe things that I thought were dumb. It seems that each generation is more culturally sensitive than the one before. That isn't always a bad thing, but where do we draw the line? When does acceptance circle back to oppression? At what point does critical thought suffer in the name of political correctness? Needless to say, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with modern liberals. It seems not that long ago that liberalism was more about channeled angst than hurt feelings. It's like the classic punks vs. hippies clash all over again. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

We are all against thin skinned, easily offended jerks. But when someone says something about our own religion/political views/ethnicity/favorite sports team/favorite band the daggers come out! 
(Seriously, when someone says something about Air Supply, @mirkwood starts crying. He's a big fan) 

I'd post that video of you dancing on front row at the Miley Cyrus concert, but this forum has rules you know...

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I guess, for me, free speech is almost a sacred thing, not to be abrogated.  If someone was proposing a law criminalizing criticism of Joseph Smith, or making burning the Book of Mormon a crime, I would oppose the law with every fiber of my being, despite the fact I am a very devout Mormon.  People should have an absolute right to say anything they want, with very, very few exceptions (e.g., fighting words, directly inciting criminal behavior, slander)

In Europe, I have actually seen free speech be diminished... you actually have to be careful with what you say, or you can actually end up in legal trouble.  Political correctness threatens free speech, at first through social shaming (which is what you see here in the US - remember Proposition 8?) and eventually through legal means (as is happening in Europe).  And let me tell you - political correctness is good for radical Muslims and the far right, but does absolutely no favors for your normal, typical European Muslim family who is caught somewhere between the crazy extremists, who are shielded by political correctness, and reactionary far-right politicians, who feed on the anger that forced political correctness brings.

 

Edited by DoctorLemon
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1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

I am wondering how people differentiate being politically correct vs. being kind. 

I frequently (at work) tell people things they don't like to hear .  A common response is to be told I am rude.  My answer to that each time is, "Just because I tell you something you don't like doesn't make me rude." 

I view the PC garbage the same.  Kindness is kindness and has nothing to do with PC.

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3 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I am wondering how people differentiate being politically correct vs. being kind. 

To me, the clear difference is PC tends to be state controlled, whereas kindness is self-controlled. As such, the former has become a form of self-serving manipulation that diminishes one and all, whereas the later tends to be mutually and voluntarily elevating.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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22 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I am wondering how people differentiate being politically correct vs. being kind. 

I do believe that the "PC" train gets out of control now and then. I am bored with social justice warriors. Not even irate, just bored. I have been witness to Kafka trapping and I think that's just hypocritical hate-mongering. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I am seeing is that since the presidential campaign started, more and more people unleash whatever nastiness they've been harboring in the name of "keeping it real". I hear lots of "Political correctness is ruining this country!" and "I'm tired of the PC police!" But people seem to be using it as an excuse to let loose their racism, misogyny, prejudice against other groups, or just to be rotten to someone.

I know what feels to me like kindness vs. political correctness, but I find it hard to define in words. What do you all think?

"All cruel people describe themselves as paragons of frankness."
—Tennessee Williams, died this day in 1983

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Guest MormonGator
7 minutes ago, Blueskye2 said:

"All cruel people describe themselves as paragons of frankness."
—Tennessee Williams, died this day in 1983

'Perhaps in nearly every joy, as certainly in every pleasure, cruelty has its place.'-Oscar Wilde, who did not die this day in 1983. 

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Eowyn, thanks for asking this question.  I've always thought that political correctness is about kindness and simply calling people what they want to be called.  I have wondered why others are to against political correctness.  This thread helps me understand a little better where other people are coming from.  Good to know.

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
On 2/25/2017 at 10:04 PM, wenglund said:

To me, the clear difference is PC tends to be state controlled, whereas kindness is self-controlled. As such, the former has become a form of self-serving manipulation that diminishes one and all, whereas the later tends to be mutually and voluntarily elevating.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm not arguing, just a clarification question.  State controlled how?  No one is going to through you in jail or even give you a ticket if you say crippled instead of handicapped.  So I don't see what you mean.  

ETA:  I'm in the US...if you're not, perhaps that is where the confusion comes from?

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Guest LiterateParakeet
On 2/25/2017 at 8:32 PM, mirkwood said:

I frequently (at work) tell people things they don't like to hear .  A common response is to be told I am rude.  My answer to that each time is, "Just because I tell you something you don't like doesn't make me rude." 

I view the PC garbage the same.  Kindness is kindness and has nothing to do with PC.

Just curious, not arguing...I imagine as a police officer you do have to tell people things they don't want to hear.  I mean who wants to get a ticket?  So yeah, that's not rude, it's just part of the job.  But I'm also wondering, were you referring to your dealings with the public (people breaking the law, specifically) or do you have this same conversation with fellow officers (to me that would be different.) 

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34 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm not arguing, just a clarification question.  State controlled how?  No one is going to through you in jail or even give you a ticket if you say crippled instead of handicapped.  So I don't see what you mean.  

ETA:  I'm in the US...if you're not, perhaps that is where the confusion comes from?

I don't speak for WEnglund, of course; but I would modify his allusion from "the state" to "society".  This encompasses the sorts of pressures conservatives often feel they are up against--with public shaming/shunning, job loss, petty vandalism (keyed cars, etc) frequently deployed against those who flout the conventional boundaries of acceptable discourse.

I would also broaden even Eowyn's paradigm to three general categories:

--Political correctness:  a person self-censors due to fear of external consequences imposed by society or government.

--Kindness:  A person self-censors out of a sympathy/empathy for another, respect for that person's dignity, and/or and a sincere desire to avoid causing pain.

--Civility:  A person neither particularly empathizes with one's opponent nor fears any material consequences for speaking bluntly; yet makes a conscious decision to self-censor in order to avoid inflaming passions; for the sake of peaceful coexistence and/or persuasion via continued reasoned discourse.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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My 2 cents:

Kindness is something you impose on yourself.

Political correctness is something others impose on you.

I am a free speech warrior.  I don't want society silencing anybody.  I want to hear your racism, I want to hear your misogyny, I want to hear your bigotry.  It is more useful to society for you to show me who you are than for you to hide who you truly are behind kind words.  Kind people say kind things because that's who they are.  Politically correct people say kind words even when it's not who they are.

 

Edited by anatess2
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We had a trunk or treat night at the church this past Halloween.  We blocked off about half of the parking lot with signs and everything that routed traffic to the other entrance for people there for other reasons.  

One man came in the side that was blocked off and asked me if we had gotten permission to block the parking lot.  I was somewhat taken aback and was about to give a sarcastic response.  But I told him,"of course".  

He said,"I guess I'll just make my way through there anyway."

I reminded him that tables and booths have been set up that will block the way for him.

He said,"That's not my problem."

I was just about to say,"Oh, so you're just an @.....(sphincter).  Then by all means proceed."  But I held my tongue.

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

We had a trunk or treat night at the church this past Halloween.  We blocked off about half of the parking lot with signs and everything that routed traffic to the other entrance for people there for other reasons.  

One man came in the side that was blocked off and asked me if we had gotten permission to block the parking lot.  I was somewhat taken aback and was about to give a sarcastic response.  But I told him,"of course".  

He said,"I guess I'll just make my way through there anyway."

I reminded him that tables and booths have been set up that will block the way for him.

He said,"That's not my problem."

I was just about to say,"Oh, so you're just an @.....(sphincter).  Then by all means proceed."  But I held my tongue.

So, whadja do?

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Just now, unixknight said:

Kindness:  "I should probably avoid saying certain things."

PC: "You must avoid saying certain things."

 

One is about self control.  The other is about imposing control on others.

Wow!  That's perfect.

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4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Just curious, not arguing...I imagine as a police officer you do have to tell people things they don't want to hear.  I mean who wants to get a ticket?  So yeah, that's not rude, it's just part of the job.  But I'm also wondering, were you referring to your dealings with the public (people breaking the law, specifically) or do you have this same conversation with fellow officers (to me that would be different.) 

The public.  The funny thing is most of those accusations of being rude come from non criminal interactions.  A common example is when somebody wants us to resolve an issue that is civil in nature and not criminal.  We will explain what we can and can not do and when we are unable to perform the action that the person wants (typical) they will often say we are being rude in telling them what reality is.

 

 

 

 

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