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      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

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Fether

Thoughts on gay scene in Beauty and the Beast

113 posts in this topic

Disney can't win. The right hates them because they don't execute homosexuals for trying to enter the park, the left hates them because they think Disney movies are patriarchal. 
 

I love Disney. The beautiful LG and I are annual pass holders. We are going this Sunday, actually. This doesn't change my view of them one way or the other. Agnostic on it. 

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Disney can't win. The right hates them because they don't execute homosexuals for trying to enter the park

This is simply untrue, MG.  The right does not "hate" Disney, and those on the right who dislike Disney's actions are not expecting Disney to "execute homosexuals for trying to enter the park." They simply want Disney not to participate in the societal rush to normalize and even champion homosexuality. This does not seem outrageous to me. Just leave homosexuality alone.

Why should those who believe that homosexuality is destructive to the human soul and to human societies (e.g. believing Latter-day Saints) patronize and otherwise offer support to organizations hostile to their beliefs? Refusing to normalize and champion homosexuality is a far cry from executing or even shunning homosexuals.

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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is simply untrue, MG.  The right does not "hate" Disney, and those on the right who dislike Disney's actions are not expecting Disney to "execute homosexuals for trying to enter the park." 

It actually is true.  

Shockingly, I was kidding (imagine that!) about the right wanting Disney to execute homosexuals. I think that was pretty obvious. 

Many on the right DO dislike Disney, because of Disney's acceptance of homosexuality.  No one forces you to patronize them and you have every right to broadcast your dislike. Go for it. 

Disney still can't win with the right or the left. The rest of us accept that you don't have to agree with a company 1000% of the time to enjoy their products
 

Edited by MormonGator
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From what I can gather, there is a passing reference to LaFou's not being quite sure whether he wants to be like Gaston, or whether he actually wants Gaston.

Sounds to me like LaFou isn't necessarily "gay", he's "questioning".  Why the oppressive, conformist left insists on immediately pigeonholing LaFou into a particular sexual identity, rather than respecting his autonomy and allowing him the space to explore this issue on his own terms, is an exercise left for the reader. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Shockingly, I was kidding (imagine that!) about the right wanting Disney to execute homosexuals. I think that was pretty obvious.

Indeed it was, which is why I wrote:

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

They simply want Disney not to participate in the societal rush to normalize and even champion homosexuality. This does not seem outrageous to me. Just leave homosexuality alone...Refusing to normalize and champion homosexuality is a far cry from executing or even shunning homosexuals.

I thought your characterization of "the right" was far too broad, really more of a stereotyped caricature. The vast majority of those who call themselves conservative still watch Disney movies and go to the parks (or would, if they could afford to). That many of them are uncomfortable with Disney's increasing push to normalize and celebrate homosexuality is neither surprising nor, in my opinion, unwarranted.

I'm on board with criticism when the criticism is deserved. In this case, I don't think it is.

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Further information pending, I may be cancelling my plan to take my daughter to this for her birthday.

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Is anybody else sick of the whole pushing and normalization of the homosexual culture?  I'm just so done with it.  It's hard to go see a movie, etc. without it being in there. Shoot, I couldn't even watch the Superbowl without some multi-cultural political crap message.  I used to think growing up that people who completely cut themselves off of TV were a little weird (my mission president didn't have a TV while he was raising a family), but the older I get, the more I think . . . you know I think that's a wise idea.

 Sometimes I wonder if the Amish are getting it right.

This is exactly what the LGBTQRX is trying to do (and man I'm so tired of it-i.e. social engineering)-I don't think the video is 100% accurate (i.e. it was probably scripted)-but the point still stands-they are trying to socially change culture by making everyone who doesn't agree with their idea of "normal" be seen as "bigoted", etc.  It's extremely hard for most people to buck social pressure about what everyone else is doing-especially when you have big organization like Disney, Seaseme Street, etc. doing this crap.

 

Edited by yjacket
The Folk Prophet and Vort like this

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As far as I know,  it is just a guy dancing with another guy at the end of the movie. The end. No kiss, no love confession, no coming out (that's what I am reading so far) so Mormons can continue breathing in peace, Hollywood is not in flames just yet. ;)

Edited by Suzie

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21 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Is anybody else sick of the whole pushing and normalization of the homosexual culture?  I'm just so done with it.  It's hard to go see a movie, etc. without it being in there. Shoot, I couldn't even watch the Superbowl without some multi-cultural political crap message.  I used to think growing up that people who completely cut themselves off of TV were a little weird (my mission president didn't have a TV while he was raising a family), but the older I get, the more I think . . . you know I think that's a wise idea.

 Sometimes I wonder if the Amish are getting it right.

This is exactly what the LGBTQRX is trying to do (and man I'm so tired of it-i.e. social engineering)-I don't think the video is 100% accurate (i.e. it was probably scripted)-but the point still stands-they are trying to socially change culture by making everyone who doesn't agree with their idea of "normal" be seen as "bigoted", etc.  It's extremely hard for most people to buck social pressure about what everyone else is doing-especially when you have big organization like Disney, Seaseme Street, etc. doing this crap.

 

I get what you're trying to say, and I agree that the word "bigot" is thrown about a bit too freely these days. However, the reality of the world we live in is that our society is made up of people from a multitude of cultural and personal backgrounds. You can morally frown upon it if you wish, but to expect the entertainment industry to adhere to an all-straight and all-white blueprint is frankly pretty naive. The entertainment industry is a reflection and a celebration of our society in all of its many forms and subcultures. Poo-pooing the presence of homosexuals and cultural diversity (is this one really still an issue with LDS?) in media is to tell those people "You don't matter to me". Like it or not, these are your neighbors (the ones you're supposed to love as yourself). You can turn off your TV, but you can't erase those people from the society you inhabit. 

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58 minutes ago, yjacket said:

 

 

I'm fascinated by this video and the claims it makes. I don't know that I've ever experienced something this pronounced.  ???

Edited by Mike

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2 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm fascinated by this video and the claims it makes. I don't know that I've ever experienced something this pronounced.  ???

Like I said, I think it's scripted and not 100% true to life, but I do believe the principles in which it details-maybe not to this extreme (I think it is basically a re-enactment of some human study papers). The basic idea is that it is extremely hard for humans to go against the flow-we are social creatures and it takes an individual of extreme will-power to go against the social construct.

Edited by yjacket

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10 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Like I said, I think it's scripted and not 100% true to life, but I do believe the principles in which it details-maybe not to this extreme (I think it is basically a re-enactment of some human study papers). The basic idea is that it is extremely hard for humans to go against the flow-we are social creatures and it takes an individual of extreme will-power to go against the social construct.

Aside from your point about "LGBTQRX" or matters of morality, beliefs, etc., have you observed this phenomenon or had it happen to you, yourself? (I realize I'm off-topic here, but it merely interested me on a personal level as a sort of spring-board toward introspection.) :)

Edited by Mike
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40 minutes ago, Godless said:

I get what you're trying to say, and I agree that the word "bigot" is thrown about a bit too freely these days. However, the reality of the world we live in is that our society is made up of people from a multitude of cultural and personal backgrounds. You can morally frown upon it if you wish, but to expect the entertainment industry to adhere to an all-straight and all-white blueprint is frankly pretty naive. The entertainment industry is a reflection and a celebration of our society in all of its many forms and subcultures. Poo-pooing the presence of homosexuals and cultural diversity (is this one really still an issue with LDS?) in media is to tell those people "You don't matter to me". Like it or not, these are your neighbors (the ones you're supposed to love as yourself). You can turn off your TV, but you can't erase those people from the society you inhabit. 

40 minutes ago, Godless said:

I get what you're trying to say, and I agree that the word "bigot" is thrown about a bit too freely these days. However, the reality of the world we live in is that our society is made up of people from a multitude of cultural and personal backgrounds. You can morally frown upon it if you wish, but to expect the entertainment industry to adhere to an all-straight and all-white blueprint is frankly pretty naive. The entertainment industry is a reflection and a celebration of our society in all of its many forms and subcultures. Poo-pooing the presence of homosexuals and cultural diversity (is this one really still an issue with LDS?) in media is to tell those people "You don't matter to me". Like it or not, these are your neighbors (the ones you're supposed to love as yourself). You can turn off your TV, but you can't erase those people from the society you inhabit. 

?? Really.  No the reality of the world is not that we live in a multi-cultural world.  You need to get out more. The only "multi-Cultural" societies are the "modern" western world.  Go to South America, go to Africa, go to China, go to India. They take your multi-cultural world, chew it up and spit it out in your face.  Multiculturalism is nothing more than a facade to destroy Western Culture,aka traditional white culture.  Yeah, so what, I'm white, I like the culture I grew up in, I'd like to keep it that way.  If I grew up in India-I'd like that culture, if I grew up in South America I'd like that culture.  There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your heritage and wanting to promulgate that heritage and culture to the next generation.  But b/c of certain concerted powers, taking pride in your culture now means your a "bigot" (if you are white-it's okay to take pride in it if your Asian, Indian, Mexican, etc.) .

You really need to read more, there is absolutely a concerted effort towards a one-world, globalized New World Order and it begins with destroying the culture that created the liberties and freedoms we have in the country. And yes homosexual behavior is against the teaching of the Church, so yes decrying media depictions of it is 100% in line with our teaching and in fact it's a shame that as a people we have become so ashamed of saying that it's wrong b/c we don't want to be labeled a "bigot". 

If you actually study the teachings, the Church absolutely appreciates different cultures . . .but you simply as a society cannot have a cohesive society when everyone shares a different culture.  What about this do people not understand? You will have more strife, more problems, more issues the more "diverse" the population becomes . . .why b/c you have a clash of cultures. And unless and until every becomes libertarian (and I don't see that happening), each culture will use the power of the government to enforce their version of morality upon the rest.  

And that is the problem, I've lived in and seen how others cultures run their governments and government is always used to enforce one version of morality (even though it shouldn't). It's fine to have multi-cultural wards, every one is fine . . .why b/c it doesn't involve power or coercion, but I guarantee you there is strife.  And yes, people self-segregate so in practical real life there is no such thing as multiculturalism.  In business, you have a business culture, if you don't fit in with the business culture-you leave or you are fired.

A while back I remember the Church saying they were adopting the meetings to wards in Africa-it's great to see an appreciating for that culture and adopting the structure of the Church to accommodate that part of the world.   The multiculturalism push in the US really started in the 70s and it has been getting worse since thing.  

For example, my kid had an assignment from school where they listed great 1st moments in space.  You know what they listed? The first Indian-American in space, the first African-American in space, the first woman in space, etc.  What a bunch of crap.  Those aren't great first in space.  You are actually causing more strife by pushing this.  Why no list, the 1st man on the moon, the 1st spacewalk, the 1st satellite, the 1st telescope, etc. Who gives a rip who made it happen, black, white, male/female-it doesn't matter, what matters is that someone built a telescope, that someone did a spacewalk, etc.  Things that actually mean something to human progress rather than social engineering crap.

Edited by yjacket

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6 minutes ago, Mike said:

Aside from your point about "LGBTQRX" or matters of morality, beliefs, etc., have you observed this phenomenon or had it happen to you, yourself? (I realize I'm off-topic here, but it just interested me on a personal level as a sort of spring-board toward introspection.) :)

Yes, I have.  A very simple example, we should pray over our food (prophets have counseled us that we should do it), yet how many people when they are out at a restaurant actually fold their arms and pray. I was on a long business trip recently with many other people and let me tell you it for the first little bit it was extremely awkward to sit at a table with people who I don't know who don't believe as I do and say a prayer. For the first little while, I was kind-of secret and furtive about it. Then I developed a bit of a backbone at just said my prayers over my food as I normally would.  But initially, it was actually kind-of hard-even though I have no problem when I'm in my office and eat lunch by myself.

Yet, how much easier would it be to pray over my food is 90% of the room said prayers over their food . . .really easy.  My discomfort would have been taken away and in fact I probably would have felt uncomfortable not saying a prayer.

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1 hour ago, yjacket said:

Is anybody else sick of the whole pushing and normalization of the homosexual culture?

You mean like the way about 40% of the Dr Who universe suddenly became gay or bisexual?  Seems odd that a Time Lord zipping all over the continuum from beginning to end for the last 54 years only started encountering that relatively recently.

Edited by NightSG
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19 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Yet, how much easier would it be to pray over my food is 90% of the room said prayers over their food . . .really easy.  My discomfort would have been taken away and in fact I probably would have felt uncomfortable not saying a prayer.

Interesting example. Thanks for indulging me. :)

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4 hours ago, Mike said:

I'm fascinated by this video and the claims it makes. I don't know that I've ever experienced something this pronounced.  ???

 Because it looks scripted. But rest assured, if you (generally "you") are heterosexual, just because someone is gay and you happen to know the person, you will not become suddenly gay. Being gay is not contagious. Geez, I cannot believe I just had to type that.

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26 minutes ago, Suzie said:

Being gay is not contagious.  Geez, I cannot believe I just had to type that.

You didn't. You typed it because it gave you a chance to vent your feelings and demonstrate what you believe to be your virtue, not because there was the least little provocation for you to do so.

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1 hour ago, Suzie said:

 Because it looks scripted. But rest assured, if you (generally "you") are heterosexual, just because someone is gay and you happen to know the person, you will not become suddenly gay. Being gay is not contagious. Geez, I cannot believe I just had to type that.

lol, really now.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/02/16/courtney-stodden-says-shes-bisexual-is-open-to-dating-woman-after-split.html

Come on.  How many stars are now suddenly "bi-sexual"?  How many models are now suddenly "bi-sexual", i.e. having homosexual relationships.  The fact is we absolutely have 0 clue as to why some people have feelings for the same sex while others don't.  No one has proven that it's something you are born with-but it is a convenient excuse to normalize it and prevent others from opposing the behavior (i.e. how dare you disagree with someone who is born like that, you evil person!!!).

I don't care if it is something you are "born with" or not (my guess is that it's like most things, a combination of factors not a single factor), but the fact remains that the more it is normalized the more that individuals will accept the behavior and consequently "try it out".  This isn't rocket science. If there is a social stigma against homosexual behavior than regardless of whether you have homosexual thoughts you will be less inclined to act it out-if there isn't a social stigma against it then yes you will be more inclined to act it out. 

Does anyone really think that if we had the culture of 25 years ago that Ms. Stodden would explore a homosexual relationship?  

So yes, it is social programming; kids see homosexual behavior in cartoons and movies, they get to be a teenager and a boy develops a man-crush on another dude (star football player, whatever) . . .now he thinks he's homosexual and of course has to "try it out"-when all it actually might be is just the fleetings of youth, i.e. a kid who idolizes another kid.  That is what culture is about-teaching the next generation the proper way to act, behave and think-not this anything goes, if it feels good do-it attitude.

Edited by yjacket
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9 hours ago, Fether said:

disney hasn't exactly had good morals, at least compared to the lds standard for somevtime now, its not surprising that they follow the worlds ways. Kind of sad to see them reach a new milestone in that direction tho. I wont be paying any money to watch that production then.

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2 hours ago, Suzie said:

 Because it looks scripted. But rest assured, if you (generally "you") are heterosexual, just because someone is gay and you happen to know the person, you will not become suddenly gay. Being gay is not contagious. Geez, I cannot believe I just had to type that.

My college roommate was gay. Back in 1998, I had to deal with stupid comments (Oh it's contagious you know!) and jokes about it. Did it bother me? No, it sharpened my wit. I could fire back at them and make some insecure babies cry. 

Edited by MormonGator

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I am still going to see it. And then I can watch the scene or scenes and judge for myself. I highly doubt that is will be anything really controversial. I kinda reminds me a the scene from "Finding Dory". So many articles came out about a scene in the movie showing the first lesbian couple in a Disney movie. I watched the movie and it was just two women together, one with short hair, the scene was less then a minute and there was nothing to really indicate that they were lesbians. Everyone made a big deal over nothing. I'll have to see if it's the same for Beauty and the Beast.

Edited by miav
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19 minutes ago, miav said:

I am still going to see it. And then I can watch the scene or scenes and judge foe myself. I highly doubt that is will be anything really controversial. I kinda reminds me a the scene from "Finding Dory". So many articles came out about a scene in the movie showing the first lesbian couple in a Disney movie. I watched the movie and it was just two women together, one with short hair, the scene was less then a minute and there was nothing to really indicate that they were lesbians. Everyone made a big deal over nothing. I'll have to see if it's the same for Beauty and the Beast.

I think I've seen Finding Dory about 2,937 times since it was added to Netflix and I never even noticed that.

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Triplicate??? I think there's a glitch in the matrix.

Edited by Godless

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