Why have many people left the Church after reading false things?


Eve1991
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1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

...It seems that being LDS would be one of the least anxiety-inducing religions to be if you are in a mixed-religion family and are wondering if you will be able to associate with nonbelieving family members in the next life...

How other people in other religions believe does not negate the fact that the ideology of eternal families can be frustrating for those who don't fit that mold.

M.

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1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

I have never understood this criticism of the Church which seems to pop up periodically.  Situations like this exist throughout all of Christianity, but are greatly mitigated in the Church.

If you are Evangelical, for example, and your child decides they don't believe in God anymore, you are likely scared to death that child will not go to heaven and you will never again see that child after death.  I have observed this in my own family, owing my mother's conversion to the Church, and various Evangelical family members fearing for her soul.  (I am not saying all Evangelicals (or Catholics, or Sunni Muslims, etc.) believe like this, but I speak from my own experience and what I have personally observed, and it seems that many do.)

Meanwhile, in the LDS Church, if your child decides they don't believe in God anymore, you can count on having a relationship with that child throughout eternity and ministering to them, regardless of where they end up.  See Doctrine & Covenants 33.  You can also count on the child not being basically tortured throughout eternity simply for having a different religious point of view.

It seems that being LDS would be one of the least anxiety-inducing religions to be if you are in a mixed-religion family and are wondering if you will be able to associate with nonbelieving family members in the next life...

Speaking as a child of a half LDS parentage:

The above post rather than Maureen's "daddy and daddy" backhanded shot at the LDS church.

The church is concerned with how the child in a part member home is raised without causing distress.  Maureen knows this, but as usual wants to take shots at the church. 

Everyone sees it Maureen, quit pretending otherwise.  If you need lessons in how to interact with a different faith I recommend you use @prisonchaplain as a source for good relations with a religion you do not believe.  I'd think after as long as you have been here that you would have to have read some of his posts.

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I'll jump in and answer the OP's post, by offering a different example.  There is a very bad practice that sometimes happens in Pentecostal circles.  At the altars, as young people (roughly 12-16) are seeking the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the expectation they will 'speak in tongues' a prayer-counselor may suggest to the seeker that s/he hum. As they do, the counselor will tap their jaw, and when odd noises come out, declare, "S/he's got it! Their speaking in tongues!"  Too many have left those altars convinced that all tongues are fake, and the whole think is nonsense. One of our best known theologians, Stanley Horton, had such an experience, and said it took him a few years before he would once again seek out encounters with the Holy Spirit.  Similar stores could be told about praying for the sick, the blessings of tithing, etc.  Manipulation and charlatanism by a few, lead many to give in to wholesale doubt.

So it is that a bad spin on the facts of an admittedly unusual set of practices and circumstances in early LDS history cause many, who's faith had come perhaps too easily, to consider it all made up, when they read some of those accounts.  Likewise, many LDS are joining the many mainstream and Evangelical Christians who have never understood the scriptural basis for sexual and family ethics (such as the Law of Chastity, and the call to heterosexual monogamy) who have come to perceive traditional teaching as mean-spirited and antiquated. 

This string reminds me of my need to regularly re-affirm the witness of the Spirit as to the truth of the gospel, and the veracity and authority of scripture.  All scripture and no love may be Pharisaism, but all feeling and no scripture leads to heresy.  May we master in the Spirit's love, and find our foundation is God's Word.

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This IS MY OPINION (yes, I shouted, so people don't get the wrong idea).

The Lord loves all children (and all of us too, believe it or not, even the wickedly mean ones like me).  The church welcomes all children, but there are reasons why some children are not baptized even if the child desires it.

The premise of the church is to be supportive of the parents of children.  If a child's parents do not want that child to be baptized, it would be unnecessarily antagonistic to baptize that child anyways. 

In general, those opposed to the policies of the church would not be supportive of having their children a part of that church.  In general, many of those who support (as the term is put here) Gay Marriage, are against the policies of the church which oppose that type of partnership.  There are those who would be tempted to baptize children involved with that partnership anyways.  This policy makes it clear, we do not do this.

Furthermore, some of those in those types of partnerships have hard feelings against the church.  They will do much (including utilizing their children) to try to open up an avenue that will enable them to lay down a lawsuit (much like what the BSA has recently been struggling with) in an attempt to force change in the church (for example, if their child is baptized, then perhaps try to sue the church for not allowing them all to be sealed in that type of partnership with their child...etc...etc...etc).  This is done not only because the church supports the parents decisions with their children, but also as a protection of the church itself against those who would wish to destroy it and the methods they would choose to employ in that matter.

Once again, this is ONLY my opinion, and not actually what is going on in the church or their thinking at all.  It is merely my take on what I think are probable reasons behind these policies that were discussed later in this thread.

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5 hours ago, Maureen said:

Situations like this already exist in the LDS Church. Not exactly the same but partial member families and non-active parents already have their children wondering if they will ever be eternal families. The only difference is the children of these families are usually welcomed to become baptized members of the Church.

M.

"Not exactly the same" is an understatement of gargantuan proportions.  Part-member families, or inactive-member families, have hope of repentance and future sealing; and even in homes where the parents are cohabiting-but-unwed, the repentance process does not necessitate the dissolution of the home.

I think communication on these sorts of issues will be facilitated when critics of Mormonism finally admit that they wanted to be able to spin the narrative that the Church was teaching kids to break up their "families"; and that those critics are mostly just miffed that they must now content themselves with histrionic tales of kids whose legal custodians weren't about to let them to grow up as Mormons anyways.

I mean, let's be honest here.  When teenaged posters come into this forum complaining that their parents won't let them be baptized--those in this forum who are on record as opposing the Church's policy, aren't exactly first in line to tell those kids that their parents are "turning them away from Jesus."  Because whether they admit it or not, these folks generally don't believe that Mormonism provides a viable path to Jesus.  They aren't concerned about these kids' spiritual development; they're just playing games because in their heart of hearts they believe gay sex is more important than the Church's truth claims and the spiritual benefits it purports to offer.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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10 hours ago, Eve1991 said:

Hi why do so many people leave the Church after reading false things on the internet? I don't know where they get information from that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl and had 30 wifes.

(Haven't read the thread here, just replying to the OP)

It is the natural inclination for humans to want things to be black and white simple: the "good guys" to never make a mistake and the "bad guys" to always be clearly despicable.  But life is more complicated than that: "good" guys (even prophets) sin.  "Bad" guys do still have the light of Christ, even if they've seemingly totally suppressed it.  When we're little, we tend to see in black/white and want that simple polarization.  But then as we grow up we learn that ALL people make mistakes.  It's hard for a lot of people and we have to hold on and trust in the Lord at points.  Some people have great black/white testimonies,  but falter when things are more complicated.

Now, in regard to "lies".  Here's my personal definition of lying: anything which is told (or not told) with the intention to deceive.  Spinning truths is lying.  You can lie by omission.  Lie by taking things out of context.  Lie by not including relevant background.  And some many other ways.  Satan, the master of lies, is a master of telling spun "truths" and omission. Many anti-Mormon (or anti- anything) people tell lies about beliefs via spinning and omission.  Some people do this knowingly, some do it because they've shut their ears to the truth, some don't know the truth at all and are simply parroting lies they've been told.  

In regards to Joseph and his wives, a recommend good information here: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true

Edited by Jane_Doe
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The OP came here wondering why members were leaving because of this new policy not allowing children of married same sex parents to be baptized. I gave the OP a possible reason why these people were leaving. @Eve1991, if you know any of these people personally, just ask them.

The bottom line is, some members of the LDS Church found this new policy hard to accept. The Church explained their reasoning, but it appears that explanation did not sway those members from disliking this new policy and putting those feelings into action by leaving.

M.

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1 hour ago, Maureen said:

The bottom line is, some members of the LDS Church found this new policy hard to accept. The Church explained their reasoning, but it appears that explanation did not sway those members from disliking this new policy and putting those feelings into action by leaving.

It is one thing to dislike / disagree.  It is another to accuse the church of being inconsistent with other policies and doctrine when the consistency is clearly demonstrable.  I think that is where the disconnect seems to be happening.

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21 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

Has anyone else noticed that almost everyone who leaves the Church leaves for atheism and/or secularism, and not because they are "trading up" to a different religion they have found to be more true?

I have heard of this and it is hard to say because everyone is different.  However I can't help but wonder if some of those people where really engaging in a form "prophet worship" and when that collapse so did all their faith.  Because the Church teaches and encourages all the members to gain personal spiritual witness of Christ as savior... and one would expect that witness to remain even if other things falter...

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22 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

Has anyone else noticed that almost everyone who leaves the Church leaves for atheism and/or secularism, and not because they are "trading up" to a different religion they have found to be more true?

If I prayed and felt a witness to the veracity of Joseph Smith as God's Latter-day prophet, followed by his successors, and then to the LDS faith as God's truest representation of spiritual community, and the only holder of religious authority, AND THEN came to believe that none of it was true--that I had been duped--then I'd run AWAY FROM anything that stunk of religion. I would figure that all metaphysics was fantasy, and very likely would become a non-religionist.  After all, I got fooled once by trusting "my heart," why open myself to being tricked again?

IMHO, the phenomenon you cite makes total sense.  Opponents of your church who operate out of religious motivation should take this reality to heart.

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4 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

If I prayed and felt a witness to the veracity of Joseph Smith as God's Latter-day prophet, followed by his successors, and then to the LDS faith as God's truest representation of spiritual community, and the only holder of religious authority, AND THEN came to believe that none of it was true--that I had been duped--then I'd run AWAY FROM anything that stunk of religion. I would figure that all metaphysics was fantasy, and very likely would become a non-religionist.  After all, I got fooled once by trusting "my heart," why open myself to being tricked again?

IMHO, the phenomenon you cite makes total sense.  Opponents of your church who operate out of religious motivation should take this reality to heart.

I think one other thing that contributes to ex-Mormons giving up on religion altogether, is that whether you see Mormonism as the restoration of Jesus' own church or merely as a 19th century American religious movement--in either scenario, it arose as a response to perceived shortcomings in mainstream Christianity.  As much as we may try to be good neighbors and avoid picking fights with other Christians; we can't tell our own story effectively without (to some degree) pointing out what those perceived shortcomings were.  Those apparent problems and inconsistencies that Mormonism cites in mainline Christianity, don't just go away once one decides that they no longer believe Joseph Smith to have been an honest man.  

In that regard, I can sort of sympathize with Christian ministers who mistrust Mormonism.  Because doctrinally, we do take a very "scorched earth" approach to proselytizing. 

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23 hours ago, Eve1991 said:

Hi why do so many people leave the Church after reading false things on the internet?

There are lots of false things on the internet, but it's usually mixed with truth to make it even more enticing. Satan knows it is more enticing if truth and falsehood are mixed together. 

There are a few things I can think of that helps turn people away from the church.

1) Forgetting that church members doing horrible things doesn't mean the Restored Gospel is invalid. Yes, church members have done some horrible things (Mountain Meadows Massacre comes to mind.) This doesn't invalidate the Gospel. People are sinners and sometimes egregiously so.

2) Misunderstanding what really happened (due to Satan's lies mixed with the truth.)

3) Tough situations that even LDS Apologists have a hard time explaining. In these cases it can come down to "we really don't know the truth of what happened", or "we really don't understand why the authority figure did this," -- and the apologists can offer some possible reasons/explanations but the real answer is "we don't know". In these cases it takes faith to just shelve it and leave it be. It takes faith to just say, "I'm OK not knowing this, I will trust in the Lord." -- And perhaps such faith is lacking in these individuals -- they just can't fathom the thought that they should have to wait and pray for answers. In today's culture, we want all of the answers now! Instant answers via Google probably has something to do with it. :)

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23 hours ago, Eve1991 said:

It makes me wander if all the people who have left the Church actually prayed and asked if the Church is true?

I know someone who left the Church. This person says he indeed knows the Church is true, but was in a position where he felt he either had to pick the Church or his social views. His social views won out.

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2 hours ago, Backroads said:

I know someone who left the Church. This person says he indeed knows the Church is true, but was in a position where he felt he either had to pick the Church or his social views. His social views won out.

Hmm sounds like the jeers of the great and spacious building got to him. 

Edited by eddified
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On 3/18/2017 at 8:46 PM, Eve1991 said:

Hi why do so many people leave the Church after reading false things on the internet?

People have no idea what it is to make real decisions that affect millions/billions/trillions of individuals.  They expect that every decision made by a perfect God will have perfectly acceptable results for all people involved.  NYET!

If you're a manager of people, you know that almost every decision you make is going to tick someone off.  And it may even be different people who react with each decision.  The more people you're in charge of, the more likely there will be people who disagree, don't understand, and even get ticked off about the decision.  A good manager isn't about a popularity contest.  He's about doing what is right.

God being a perfect God is not about trying to make sure everyone agrees with Him.  He's about making the decision that is right, not the decision that is popular.

When individuals get the idea that they know better because of how things affect their exception to the rule, they have lost all sense of obedience to God and have sided with Satan who dared to leave heaven rather than follow the Father.  How'd that work out for him?

Edited by Guest
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16 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you're a manager of people, you know that almost every decision you make is going to tick someone off.  And it may even be different people who react with each decision.  The more people you're in charge of, the more likely there will be people who disagree, don't understand, and even get ticked off about the decision.  A good manager isn't about a popularity contest.  He's about doing what is right.

"...you can’t please all of the people all of the time." ...But with a little effort, you can make them all angry.

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Guest MormonGator
28 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you're a manager of people, you know that almost every decision you make is going to tick someone off.  

"There is only one way to avoid criticism. Say nothing, do nothing."-attributed to Plato. 

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22 hours ago, Maureen said:

The OP came here wondering why members were leaving because of this new policy not allowing children of married same sex parents to be baptized. I gave the OP a possible reason why these people were leaving. @Eve1991, if you know any of these people personally, just ask them.

The bottom line is, some members of the LDS Church found this new policy hard to accept. The Church explained their reasoning, but it appears that explanation did not sway those members from disliking this new policy and putting those feelings into action by leaving.

M.

Do you think people who left the Church over the new policy were inactive anyway?

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2 minutes ago, Eve1991 said:

Do you think people who left the Church over the new policy were inactive anyway?

It is a lot easier (mentally speaking) for people to formally resign from the church who have been inactive for many years.  For example, vast majority of the people at the "mass" resignation event after the policy was introduced had been inactive for years.

That's not saying that an active member couldn't resign either, or that an active member couldn't go inactive over conflicted feelings in relationship to this policy.  It would be blind and stupid to not acknowledge that this has been hard on a lot of people.  

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1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

It is a lot easier (mentally speaking) for people to formally resign from the church who have been inactive for many years.  For example, vast majority of the people at the "mass" resignation event after the policy was introduced had been inactive for years.

That's not saying that an active member couldn't resign either, or that an active member couldn't go inactive over conflicted feelings in relationship to this policy.  It would be blind and stupid to not acknowledge that this has been hard on a lot of people.  

How did you feel when the policy came out? In the bible it condemns homosexuality is a sin and it was God who says that. This is a good video. 

 

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