Plural sealings in today's world

[Guest]

We don't practice polygamy but we are doing things that make it seem like in the eternities there will be plural marriage. Russell M Nelson Dallin H Oaks L Tom perry Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee and Howard W Hunter are all sealed to more than 1 woman and expect to be wirh,all spouses in heaven. This isn't a 19th century thing. My young uncle got sealed to his 2nd spouse after his first wife died of cancer while my other uncle is sealed to 2 women because he divorced his first wife but not in the temple and married his 2nd wife civilly then got approval to be sealed in the temple. So plural sealings go on all the time today and if we are to respect the sealing ordinance then we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities. 

[Fether]

59 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

We don't practice polygamy but we are doing things that make it seem like in the eternities there will be plural marriage. Russell M Nelson Dallin H Oaks L Tom perry Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee and Howard W Hunter are all sealed to more than 1 woman and expect to be wirh,all spouses in heaven. This isn't a 19th century thing. My young uncle got sealed to his 2nd spouse after his first wife died of cancer while my other uncle is sealed to 2 women because he divorced his first wife but not in the temple and married his 2nd wife civilly then got approval to be sealed in the temple. So plural sealings go on all the time today and if we are to respect the sealing ordinance then we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities. 

Yes

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

We don't practice polygamy but we are doing things that make it seem like in the eternities there will be plural marriage. Russell M Nelson Dallin H Oaks L Tom perry Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee and Howard W Hunter are all sealed to more than 1 woman and expect to be wirh,all spouses in heaven. This isn't a 19th century thing. My young uncle got sealed to his 2nd spouse after his first wife died of cancer while my other uncle is sealed to 2 women because he divorced his first wife but not in the temple and married his 2nd wife civilly then got approval to be sealed in the temple. So plural sealings go on all the time today and if we are to respect the sealing ordinance then we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities. 

Serial Monogamy (is a form of polygamy) is accepted in the US (as is another form of polygamy, but that one has partners that are not married under the law, though they may be having relations with multiple partners at a time).  The most common form of serial monogamy (aka polygamy) of this in the US is for individuals to divorce from one another, and then enter into another marriage relationship, thus having more than one partner over their lifetime.

The LDS church still allows this form of plural marriage, though it only counts the polygyny aspects in regards to eternal marriage, at least on the surface.

More complicated, the LDS church has a form of polyandry (one woman, multiple men) in it's temple sealings for the dead currently, in that it seals a woman to multiple husbands if they were married to more than one husband in life.  This is actually a doctrinal change over the past few decades, as before they would only have the spouse sealed to one husband.

Their logic is that this gives the woman a choice or something like that in the afterlife.  The original thought was that if there was a mistake, it would be cleared up, but if multiple husbands were sealed to a spouse, only the FIRST one was the one that counted (normally, that one was to the first husband they were married to).  This obviously has changed, probably with the hopes it will be cleared up in the millennium. A woman who has been married multiple times now will be sealed to any husband she was married to in this life at any point.  The same applies to husbands, even if they were divorced from their wife under harsh circumstances. 

Historically looking at it, the practice of polygamy in which a man was married to multiple woman at the same time was rescinded in practice.  Serial monogamy, was NOT illegal in the US and hence the practice of polygamy in that way was allowed.  One could make a point of saying, due to serial monogamy and the way fornication occurs in western society that polygamy is now more popular than ever, just not the civil recognition of such relationships being as with a man civilly married to more than one woman at a time (or vice versa) though they can be civilly unmarried but having marital relations with multiple partners at the same time.

In regards to the LDS church, polygamy was never rescinded as a commandment, only the practice of it was halted for reasons as per the manifesto.  However, most in the LDS faith (or this could just be me, echoing my own feelings in relation to thinking others feel similar to me) do NOT favor the idea of polygamy nor the practice thereof.

Edited April 5, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Guest]

I think there's a doctrine somewhere that says if you do your home teaching the first week of every month and always wear a white shirt all day on Sundays, you get 72 virgins in heaven.

[person0]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

". . . we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities."  (emphasis added)

This reads like you are excitedly anticipating plural marriage. 

[Guest]

He is. We are coming full circle around to a conversation we've already had and beaten to death.

[Eydis]

10 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

We don't practice polygamy but we are doing things that make it seem like in the eternities there will be plural marriage. Russell M Nelson Dallin H Oaks L Tom perry Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee and Howard W Hunter are all sealed to more than 1 woman and expect to be wirh,all spouses in heaven. This isn't a 19th century thing. My young uncle got sealed to his 2nd spouse after his first wife died of cancer while my other uncle is sealed to 2 women because he divorced his first wife but not in the temple and married his 2nd wife civilly then got approval to be sealed in the temple. So plural sealings go on all the time today and if we are to respect the sealing ordinance then we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities. 

In the Celestial Kingdom all is shared.  One should ask their self, is there anything I could hide from God?  Is there any experience, any thought, any passion, any joy that I could hide from God? No.  If an individual makes it to the Celestial Kingdom and inherits all that God has, then what could one hide from that individual? Nothing. The sealing power allows anyone who makes it into the Celestial Kingdom to share the glory of all those who are also in the Celestial Kingdom.  In other words, then news is that if one cannot love their neighbor as their self then they will not be in the Celestial Kingdom.  If one loves their neighbor as their self then they have the capacity to experience what that person experiences which is the lesson taught by our Savior as He did in the garden of Gethsemane.

If one man has one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and another man has 15 wives in the Celestial Kingdom (if that is really possible) then would they have different degrees of glory?  No. Because all is shared.  In other words, there is no reason for a man to have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom.   At least we have no plausible reason for a man to have more than one wife. I can't see any revelations that say it is in the LDS gospel that a man will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom.  Please give us quotes as to where you see that as official doctrine of the church.

[Anddenex]

2 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I think there's a doctrine somewhere that says if you do your home teaching the first week of every month and always wear a white shirt all day on Sundays, you get 72 virgins in heaven.

I am pretty sure it was 144 virgins Eowyn!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I am pretty sure it was 144 virgins Eowyn!

My memory isn't always the greatest. 

[Vort]

I am hungrily and rather smugly contemplating the delight of celestial polygamy, a condition to which I am perfectly suited. I have deep compassion upon all those poor women (especially the sexy ones) who aren't married to a good man like myself. I have no doubt that they will jump at the chance to ditch the losers and be sealed forever to me.

Yes, heaven is going to be totally awesome. For my hundreds of wives, I mean. I'm willing to make that noble sacrifice. Not sure my wife is totally on-board with it, but I'm desperately hoping she'll see the light.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

I am hungrily and rather smugly contemplating the delight of celestial polygamy, a condition to which I am perfectly suited. I have deep compassion upon all those poor women (especially the sexy ones) who aren't married to a good man like myself. I have no doubt that they will jump at the chance to ditch the losers and be sealed forever to me.

Yes, heaven is going to be totally awesome. For my hundreds of wives, I mean. I'm willing to make that noble sacrifice. Not sure my wife is totally on-board with it, but I'm desperately hoping she'll see the light.

Dude, you should count your blessings that you found one woman willing to put up with you. Your wife is truly a saint!!! 

 

[Vort]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Dude, you should count your blessings that you found one woman willing to put up with you. Your wife is truly a saint!!! 

This is truer than you know.

[Anddenex]

10 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

We don't practice polygamy but we are doing things that make it seem like in the eternities there will be plural marriage. Russell M Nelson Dallin H Oaks L Tom perry Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B Lee and Howard W Hunter are all sealed to more than 1 woman and expect to be wirh,all spouses in heaven. This isn't a 19th century thing. My young uncle got sealed to his 2nd spouse after his first wife died of cancer while my other uncle is sealed to 2 women because he divorced his first wife but not in the temple and married his 2nd wife civilly then got approval to be sealed in the temple. So plural sealings go on all the time today and if we are to respect the sealing ordinance then we have to believe we have a shot of living plural marriage throughout the eternities. 

In our New Testament we are informed, "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Our sealings are bound on earth, as they are bound in heaven. If a man is sealed to more than one wife, then it appears safe to follow that he will be sealed to both after this life (assuming they are in the Celestial Kingdom).

The divorce scenario, in my opinion, doesn't follow suit. In life they have separated. In death, they will be the same. Either way, if there is, then there is. If there isn't then there isn't.

[person0]

27 minutes ago, Eydis said:

Please give us quotes as to where you see that as official doctrine of the church.

Ummm. . .

Quote

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage.
(D&C Section 132 - The whole thing)

If the marriage covenant is eternal, and you enter into the marriage covenant with more than one person, then you have 2 eternal marriage covenants.

1 Eternal Spouse + 1 Eternal Spouse = 2 Eternal Spouses = Eternal Plural Marriage

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is truer than you know.

I'm sure your wife really is a wonderful person, but you know I'm just razzing you about the rest. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by MormonGator

[estradling75]

16 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

In our New Testament we are informed, "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Our sealings are bound on earth, as they are bound in heaven. If a man is sealed to more than one wife, then it appears safe to follow that he will be sealed to both after this life (assuming they are in the Celestial Kingdom).

The divorce scenario, in my opinion, doesn't follow suit. In life they have separated. In death, they will be the same. Either way, if there is, then there is. If there isn't then there isn't.

Indeed... Also please note that the Sealing also has to be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise or it not binding in Heaven.  Going through the ordinance of Sealing multiple time to different women (or men) while alive or dead matters not in Heaven, if that ratification does not happen.  And I think that ratification happens much less often then we suppose.

While pondering the eternities can be good.  It matters not if we fail to make what we have right in front of us work.  Remember the parable of the talents 

 

[Anddenex]

7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Indeed... Also please note that the Sealing also has to be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise or it not binding in Heaven.  Going through the ordinance of Sealing multiple time to different women (or men) while alive or dead matters not in Heaven, if that ratification does not happen.  And I think that ratification happens much less often then we suppose.

While pondering the eternities can be good.  It matters not if we fail to make what we have right in front of us work.  Remember the parable of the talents 

 

True.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Eydis said:

In the Celestial Kingdom all is shared.  One should ask their self, is there anything I could hide from God?  Is there any experience, any thought, any passion, any joy that I could hide from God? No.  If an individual makes it to the Celestial Kingdom and inherits all that God has, then what could one hide from that individual? Nothing. The sealing power allows anyone who makes it into the Celestial Kingdom to share the glory of all those who are also in the Celestial Kingdom.  In other words, then news is that if one cannot love their neighbor as their self then they will not be in the Celestial Kingdom.  If one loves their neighbor as their self then they have the capacity to experience what that person experiences which is the lesson taught by our Savior as He did in the garden of Gethsemane.

If one man has one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and another man has 15 wives in the Celestial Kingdom (if that is really possible) then would they have different degrees of glory?  No. Because all is shared.  In other words, there is no reason for a man to have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom.   At least we have no plausible reason for a man to have more than one wife. I can't see any revelations that say it is in the LDS gospel that a man will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom.  Please give us quotes as to where you see that as official doctrine of the church.

Surely you don't think there's wife-swapping going on in the Celestial Kingdom, though?

At any rate, Brigham Young suggests that not everything is shared in the Celestial Kingdom; especially as it pertains to the patriarchal order.  To wit:

Quote

We understand that we are to be made kings and priests unto God; now if I be made the king and lawgiver to my family, and if I have many sons, I shall become the father of many fathers, for they will have sons, and their sons will have sons, and so on, from generation to generation, and, in this way, I may become the father of many fathers, or the king of many kings. This will constitute every man a prince, king, lord, or whatever the Father sees fit to confer upon us.

In this way we can become king of kings, and lord of lords, or father of fathers, or prince of princes, and this is the only course, for another man is not going to raise up a kingdom for you. (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.195)

This makes sense, when you think about it--if, in the Celestial Kingdom, my daughter Just_A_Kid#1 recognizes me as her father, but does not recognize Vort as such:  I enjoy a degree of glory that--say--Vort does not fully share. Similarly, with respect to Vort's children, he will enjoy a degree of glory that I do not fully share.

The only way to make Vort and I truly "equal" in the Celestial Kingdom with regard to our collective children, would be to utterly destroy the familial bonds that bind each of us to our posterities.  Which is very much in line with some mainstream Christian theologies; but is the polar opposite of what Mormonism teaches.

[Guest]

My psychologist who I just spoke with who haoppens to be a Bishop informed me after our discussion that plural marriages will be apart of the eternities and the Celestial Kingdom.

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

My psychologist who I just spoke with who haoppens to be a Bishop informed me after our discussion that plural marriages will be apart of the eternities and the Celestial Kingdom.

A part for some people-- most definitely.  After all, God's not going to tell Jacob "I'm sorry, you got to leave three of your wives behind".

A part for everyone -- extremely unlikely, just do to simple gender ratios.

Regardless: are we each going to be beyond beyond happy of a wildest dreams and is God going to lead of there -- without a shadow of a doubt!

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

My psychologist who I just spoke with who haoppens to be a Bishop informed me after our discussion that plural marriages will be apart of the eternities and the Celestial Kingdom.

Well then. That's settled.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

My psychologist who I just spoke with who haoppens to be a Bishop informed me after our discussion that plural marriages will be apart of the eternities and the Celestial Kingdom.

I'm glad you are seeing a psychologist and that he happens to be a bishop too. I really, really hope you find peace my friend. 

[Anddenex]

21 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Surely you don't think there's wife-swapping going on in the Celestial Kingdom, though?

The Celestial kingdom is made up of "Swingers"! Who knew?!

[Eydis]

21 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Surely you don't think there's wife-swapping going on in the Celestial Kingdom, though?

At any rate, Brigham Young suggests that not everything is shared in the Celestial Kingdom; especially as it pertains to the patriarchal order.  To wit:

This makes sense, when you think about it--if, in the Celestial Kingdom, my daughter Just_A_Kid#1 recognizes me as her father, but does not recognize Vort as such:  I enjoy a degree of glory that--say--Vort does not fully share. Similarly, with respect to Vort's children, he will enjoy a degree of glory that I do not fully share.

The only way to make Vort and I truly "equal" in the Celestial Kingdom with regard to our collective children, would be to utterly destroy the familial bonds that bind each of us to our posterities.  Which is very much in line with some mainstream Christian theologies; but is the polar opposite of what Mormonism teaches.

So you don't think that Vort and you will be bound together in the same family bond?  That you will be of different families if you both make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

[Just_A_Guy]

23 hours ago, Eydis said:

So you don't think that Vort and you will be bound together in the same family bond?  That you will be of different families if you both make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

In a general sense, sure, we're all related.  But to the degree that we become kings and queens--Young's position seems to be that we may only claim those patriarchal prerogatives over kingdoms we have raised up ourselves.  Do as much genealogy as you please; but no matter how many times you establish that Vort and I are in fact long lost cousins (and do the appropriate dealings accordingly)--Vort's children will never love, honor, and revere  me the way they love, honor, and revere him.  I would never presume to suggest that they should.

The patriarchal order isn't primarily about everyone being linked to everyone else all willy-nilly (although Joseph Smith certainly saw and delighted in the notion of humanity sealed and bound into one giant family).  In the patriarchal order, lineage matters very much.  We don't seal cousins to cousins, uncles to nieces, or even siblings to siblings.  We seal husbands to wives, and parents to children.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Just_A_Guy