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Am I overreacting?

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How would you feel if your Young Women president and Young Women first councilor (the bishop's wife) came to your house and asked if they could take your daughter (the Laurel president) to go and visit some less active girls in your ward? You wouldn't think much of it, right? You would let your daughter go with them because this is pretty normal, the Young Women president and your daughter go and visit girls all of the time, bringing them the list of mutual activities coming up in the month. Well what would you think if your daughter came home in tears and when you asked her what was wrong, she told you that they hadn't been visiting the less active girls at all, but instead they drove to a nearby park and began to confront your daughter about a live stream video that she had done on Facebook with her best friend the week before. The live stream video involved your daughter sitting in a bathtub with her best friend (in their swimsuits) listening to music and just joking around. You had seen this video before and it didn't really concern you because your daughter and her best friend are really close and they weren't doing anything inappropriate. Well apparently your daughter's Young women leaders saw it differently. My daughter told me that they parked their car in the parking lot of our nearby park and then confronted her about the video. They started off by saying that the live stream worried them and they found it really "disturbing". They said that the friendship that my daughter and her best friend have is "inappropriate", and that my daughter shouldn't have done that. In the live stream, my daughter IS sitting in a bathtub with her best friend, but they are wearing swimsuits and are sitting on opposite ends of the bathtub, talking to each other about the music they were listening to, and answering questions that my daughter's friends were commenting on her video. I fail to see how that is "sexual", as they told her. They made my daughter cry, seeing that her best friend is suicidal and they just kept bringing up the fact that their friendship is innapropriate. They told her that although they appreciate everything that my daughter has done to bring her best friend to mutual and church (because her best friend had been less active a while back), she needs to take a break from spending time with her best friend. Their reason for saying this is because "it could give the younger girls the impression that you and her are dating, and they look up to you, you have a great influence on them'. They flat out told my daughter that it appears that she is dating her best friend and that isn't acceptable. My daughter is not attracted to other girls, so them implying this was kind of offensive and hurtful, that they would treat her this way, thinking that she is attracted to the same sex. We haven't had any problems with this before, but I guess with their live stream video and my daughter and her best friend occasionally holding hands, they started to become "concerned".  Is is okay for them to come over to my house, ask to borrow my daughter to go and visit other young women in our ward, and then take her to a park instead and tell her all that she is doing wrong, without ever even bringing up this subject with my husband and I beforehand? Am I overreacting or is this actually something i should worry about?

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I would lose my mind if this happened, A face to face confrontation with both the YW president and 1st counselor is necessary.  While I am sure everyone can appreciate their concern they have clearly over stepped their boundaries.  I wouldn't email, wouldn't text, I would meet them in the same park and let them have it. 

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Pro-tip...  If you feel the need to lie(like they did)... for just about any reason... that means the spirit is not with you... And if the spirit is not with you then you not in a position to rebuke anyone with sharpness per D&C 121.

I would set up a appointment with the Bishop and share with him the story.  Because in many ways from what you say they did a bishop level worthiness interview.. without the calling or authority to do so.

Now there most likely is more to the story then you know.. so go find out.

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They lied.  Who is the father of all lies?  That they started this process using one of Satan's tactics testifies that what they were doing was wrong - and that somewhere inside, they knew it was wrong (we don't feel the need to lie when we know what we're doing is right).  I agree that this needs to be handled in person.

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54 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Pro-tip...  If you feel the need to lie(like they did)... for just about any reason... that means the spirit is not with you... And if the spirit is not with you then you not in a position to rebuke anyone with sharpness per D&C 121.

I would set up a appointment with the Bishop and share with him the story.  Because in many ways from what you say they did a bishop level worthiness interview.. without the calling or authority to do so.

Now there most likely is more to the story then you know.. so go find out.

I disagree, I think that it need not be brought to the Bishop's attention "yet".  Three adults should be able to get together and resolve this little dust up. 

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1 minute ago, unixknight said:

These women took her on false pretenses of ward business.

This is a good point.  This is more than a bunch of women screwing up in their personal lives; they were acting in an official capacity, using authority delegated through the bishop...  Whether to involve the bishop is a difficult question in this case since one of them is wife to the bishop.  Has he already heard a version?  Will he believe any version other than his wife's?  What will his wife tell him about a private conversation he doesn't witness first-hand?  Is it better to talk to him privately, or with all of them there (I envision serious contention with all of them fighting it out in the same small room)?

I don't envy the decision, but I think it cannot be left unaddressed - it's best for all involved that it be addressed, and sooner than later.

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THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF.  This is usurping your authority as a parent, breaking the trust of your teen-ager, and doing possibly irreparable harm to your daughter's spirit and her trust in Church authority.  THIS IS A CHURCH LEADERSHIP ISSUE AND NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED WITH THE BISHOP.  This is one of those things that would give you reason to raise your hand NAY on ward conference.

That said, you, as a parent have a lot of work to do to reinforce gospel teachings - especially compassion and forgiveness and service and love - not only for your daughter's friends but also for your daughter's leaders who have made a serious mistake.

 

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I agree with the other comments. This was out of line. I think you should talk to the Bishop.

Another concern I have is the really terrible advice to step back from the friendship with a girl who is suicidal. That could make the girl feel abandoned and push her over the edge.  

Finally, my daughter did the same thing...with one of her best friends (bathing suits in the bathtub). I did something similar at that age. You are right that's not a big deal.  

I'm sure these sisters meant well, but they poor decisions and advice are hurting the girls. The Bishop needs to know ao he can prayerfully discern if this was just a temporary lapse in judgment or if its time for them to serve somewhere else.  

 

Edited by LiterateParakeet

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Lilyflowers,

I'm going to guess there is something more that is going on here than what you have told us as several red flags in the story light up. My guess is your daughter is giving you a version of the story that isn't quite the truth and probably contains a lot of bs in it too and my guess is she has probably got you wrapped around her finger to believe her every word and to come to her aid at the drop of a hat.

First off your daughter is 16-17; teenagers are mischievous (even the good ones), they don't tell the truth all the time, they try to get away with things.  They are trying to be adults but not quite ready to be adults and some are more mischievous than others; girls are going to be boy crazy and utter drama queens, boys will be causing some mayhem . . . my motto is trust but verify.

There is her version of the truth (warped by her still immature not fully formed brain), the version of the leaders and then the actual truth.  Her version of the truth makes it seem like they planned out this "secret", premeditated behind the back way of jumping her. I highly doubt that is the actual truth.  Before you go off all half-cocked ready to give someone a piece of your mind, it might be good just have a calm, rational discussion with the leaders.  After church, "Hi, Katie (whatever her name is) came home very upset the other night after visiting less actives, I couldn't quite make out the full story-would you mind telling me what happened?" Very calm, very rational-not in a momma bear mode, but in a "I'd like to understand their perspective mode"

 

Now, I will give a piece of my mind :-).  What the heck?? Why in the world are you allowing your kids to use Facebook and livestream??? There is absolutely no redeeming value for a 16 year old to be live-streaming on Facebook.  Kids these days can't even carry on a normal conversation b/c they are stuck in social media world.  And yes, I do think livestreaming being in  bathtub in swimsuits is a bad thing.  

What exactly is the point of livestreaming on Facebook being in the bathtub?  Anyone can have access to it; just send them a link-and once the link is sent out-you can't control who it goes to-even if it is password protected.  This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas that a parent would let their 16-17 year old live stream being in the bathtub with swimsuits.  All the idiot girl needs to do (and yes a 16-17 year old is an idiot), is send the link to Billy. Billy thinks it's great and sends the link to Joe. Now Joe sends it to his 15 best friends and before you know it 20 16-17 year old (or maybe even older!!!) kids are watching your daughter in a bathtub with her swimsuit on.  

Do you see where this is going???  Billy sends a text to your daughter, "hey show a little bit of shoulder baby, j/k, lol :-)!!!!"  

So, yeah, if I'm a leader over youth, you dang right, I'd give her a piece of my mind for doing something idiotic like that . . . and I'd give the parents a piece of my mind too!!

 

And if you think "oh my daughter would never do that!!" Think again, you've given her access to the world-if my 8 year old can figure out how to reset passwords, manipulate web browsers, etc.  I guarantee your 16-17 year old is smart enough to have a second account on the side and only tell her mom the things she wants to hear to make her out like an innocent little angel.

Edited by yjacket

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1 minute ago, yjacket said:

 This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas that a parent would let their 16-17 year old live stream being in the bathtub with swimsuits.  All the idiot girl needs to do (and yes a 16-17 year old is an idiot), is send the link to Billy.

This is kind of disrespectful to talk about my daughter that way. No, it wasn't the best decision she has made, but I overall don't see anything wrong. She took the video down the next day. Only five or six of her friends had seen it. All female. 

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For everyone saying that we should set up a meeting with the bishop, those young women leaders were kind enough to set up a meeting FOR ME and told me about it when they took me to the park.. I didn't have a choice in that matter. If they really want me to talk to him, they could have kindly suggested that I talk to him instead of TELLING ME that I have a meeting with him....I don't want to go if they are going to take away my agency and make me go.

 

- The daughter

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7 minutes ago, yjacket said:

anatess, something else is going on here . . .this doesn't meet my sniff test.

I'm using all caps here for super extra very serious emphasis.  If this was my child this happened to, I will not rest easy until the leaders are removed or my child removed from under their leadership.  EVEN IF it comes out that my child is a lesbian!

EVEN IF it comes out that the daughter is a secret lesbian, MY VIEWS ARE THE SAME - THIS IS STILL A CHURCH LEADERSHIP ISSUE.  You do not go around the parent, take the daughter out on false pretenses and PARENT her outside of her home.  YOU DO NOT DO THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT THE PARENTS ARE NEGLIGENT

 

Edited by anatess2

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7 minutes ago, Lilyflowers88 said:

This is kind of disrespectful to talk about my daughter that way. No, it wasn't the best decision she has made, but I overall don't see anything wrong. She took the video down the next day. Only five or six of her friends had seen it. All female. 

I calls 'em like I see 'em-it is a dumb idea (not that you are dumb, just that the idea to allow a 16-17 year-old to do this is so, so dumb).  

Sorry to bust your bubble.  (the bold only according to her) LOL,ROFL, LOL.  really?? Okay, keep living in the social media dream world.  All it takes is 1 . . .just 1 person to record it and it is gone into the wild.  Not only that but Facebook and all the media organization have records of it (yes they keep digital copies of everything!).  You can use the "waybackmachine" to get snapshots of a website at a previous point in time.  Trust me, if someone wants it they can get it.  

Edited by yjacket

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5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm using all caps here for super extra very serious emphasis.  If this was my child this happened to, I will not rest easy until the leaders are removed or my child removed from under their leadership.  EVEN IF it comes out that my child is a lesbian!

EVEN IF it comes out that the daughter is a secret lesbian, MY VIEWS ARE THE SAME - THIS IS STILL A CHURCH LEADERSHIP ISSUE.  You do not go around the parent, take the daughter out on false pretenses and PARENT her outside of her home.  YOU DO NOT DO THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT THE PARENTS ARE ABUSING THE CHILD.

 

Anatess, we don't know what is going on.  You don't elevate directly to the Bishop without first talking to the leaders.  Find out what their version of the story is . . .then if necessary elevate.

My big beef here is that in today's society we believe the child over the leadership absolutely backwards.  Believe the adult/leadership first, if the story doesn't add up, then believe the child.

THIS is why kids grow-up entitled!!!!

It may not have been false pretenses. If it was go to the Bishop-but you won't know until you talk to the leadership first.

Dealing with a 16-17 year old kid . . .who are you going to believe the immature kid or the leadership?  That's why you find out from the leadership what happened then depending on what they say, how they say it if necessary elevate.  At the same time, discuss with child appropriate use of social media.

Edited by yjacket

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3 minutes ago, Lilyflowers88 said:

For everyone saying that we should set up a meeting with the bishop, those young women leaders were kind enough to set up a meeting FOR ME and told me about it when they took me to the park.. I didn't have a choice in that matter. If they really want me to talk to him, they could have kindly suggested that I talk to him instead of TELLING ME that I have a meeting with him....I don't want to go if they are going to take away my agency and make me go.

 

- The daughter

I don't think you understand. We're not suggesting that you need to talk to the Bishop. We think your Leaders were out of line. He needs to know what THEY are doing. They, not you, are the issue here.  Anatess explains it best. Read her posts again.

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Just now, yjacket said:

Anatess, we don't know what is going on.  You don't elevate directly to the Bishop without first talking to the leaders.  Find out what their version of the story is . . .then if necessary elevate.

My big beef here is that in today's society we believe the child over the leadership absolutely backwards.  Believe the adult/leadership first, if the story doesn't add up, then believe the child.

THIS is why kids grow-up entitled!!!!

This is all the version I need - They took my daughter out of my home on false pretenses and talked to her about her doing something inappropriate WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE NOR PRESENCE.  YOU DO NOT DO THAT TO MY CHILD.

UNLESS YOU'RE IMPLYING that LilyFlower is LYING and that the YW President brought up her child's behavior with her mother before taking her out of her home to talk to her about it then you have a point.  Otherwise, you have none.  If you, yjacket, does this kind of thing to my boys, YOU WILL BE MY ENEMY.  You do not know what I'm doing with my boys.  You do not know how I'm addressing these things with my boys.  I am the parent, you are not.  Do not assume I'm a moron who do not know how to raise children.  You have a problem with my boys, you talk to me.

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2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I don't think you understand. We're not suggesting that you need to talk to the Bishop. We think your Leaders were out of line. He needs to know what THEY are doing. They, not you, are the issue here.  Anatess explains it best. Read her posts again.

Maybe they were out of line, maybe not.  Again, Lilyflowers hasn't even talked to the leadership to find out their version!!!  

My goodness, this is parenting 101, when your child comes how from school complaining about the teacher, the first thing you do is go to the teacher and talk to them.  You don't go straight to the principle.

This isn't an emergency situation that must be done TODAY!!! It needs to be addressed but there is time to do it right instead of going off half-cocked.

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The atrocity these leaders have committed is exactly why women don't have the priesthood. ;)

 

(Totally trolling, don't take me seriously, I myself know of priesthood holders who have done much much worse) ;)

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1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Maybe they were out of line, maybe not.  Again, Lilyflowers hasn't even talked to the leadership to find out their version!!! 

THAT'S ALL I NEED RIGHT THERE.  The leadership did not talk to her about it BEFORE they had that discussion with my daughter.  So, if you're taking the assumption that the daughter lied to her mother and that the leaders actually did not talk to her about it but went on their less-active route, then anything else is SERIOUS LEADERSHIP ERROR.

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I agree that the bishop be involved. And a note to the daughter who posted: we aren't suggesting you talk to the bishop, we are suggesting your parents go talk to the bishop. You may need to talk to your Bishop but only after your parents talk to them.

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Just now, anatess2 said:

This is all the version I need - They took my daughter out of my home on false pretenses and talked to her about her doing something inappropriate WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE NOR PRESENCE.  YOU DO NOT DO THAT TO MY CHILD.

UNLESS YOU'RE IMPLYING that LilyFlower is LYING 

Daggummit . . .I'm not implying that LilyFlower is lying.  REREAD WHAT I WROTE!!!!!

I'm implying that LilyFlower's daughter is a 16 year old immature drama queen who probably/maybe took things out of context and provided a bad story to her mother.  IF it went down like the daughter says it did, then it might be an issue.  My guess is that it did not go down like she said it did b/c teens are teens and especially girls are DRAMA QUEENS!!!

More importantly, the point missed here is that the actual behavior of the child (i.e. livestreaming on Facebook in a bathtub is inappropriate) 

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1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Maybe they were out of line, maybe not.  Again, Lilyflowers hasn't even talked to the leadership to find out their version!!!  

My goodness, this is parenting 101, when your child comes how from school complaining about the teacher, the first thing you do is go to the teacher and talk to them.  You don't go straight to the principle.

This isn't an emergency situation that must be done TODAY!!! It needs to be addressed but there is time to do it right instead of going off half-cocked.

There is not ONE clear way to deal with every situation. In some cases, I would agree with you, just not on this one.

 

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

THAT'S ALL I NEED RIGHT THERE.  The leadership did not talk to her about it BEFORE they had that discussion with my daughter.  So, if you're taking the assumption that the daughter lied to her mother and that the leaders actually did not talk to her about it but went on their less-active route, then anything else is SERIOUS LEADERSHIP ERROR.

No, it is possible that this was a conversation they had; they might not have thought it was that big of a deal to talk to the parents about.  Anatess you are seeing blood here instead of taking the logical approach which is talk to the leadership first-then if necessary talk to the Bishop.  Why is this so blasted hard?

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