Am I overreacting?

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I am fortunate that the most uncomfortable moment of my life was when an instructor at Camp School pulled me aside to tell me he was offended by my reasonably modest swimsuit, after asking me if I were LDS, as if that gave him some sort of priesthood responsibility over the practical and what I thought was modest swimsuit. It was weird, degrading, and out of place at a non-church function.

I am all for the village, I really am. But villages have rules, not people randomly declaring power.

Hmm. If a male adult pulls a young female aside because he is "offended" by her swimsuit, is there any other way to interpret that than the way I am interpreting it? I mean I'm not one who is in any regard one of those anti-modesty folk who claim men should just control themselves and therefore no-modesty=good or some such. But really, in this situation I would have called the guy a perv and told him if he ever spoke to me like that again I'd bring harassment charges against him.

[The Folk Prophet]

duplicate

 

my fault...whoops.

Edited April 17, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[yjacket]

3 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Telling a girl she posted an inappropriate video that makes her look like a lesbian is more than "talking". (Again, this is all under the premise that things happened as the girl said.) A disciplinary talking to more than "Hey, stop doing what you're doing" is out of line without running it by the parents first and giving them first shot at handling it. Cornering a girl and making those kinds of statements shows a lack of experience with teenagers and/or forethought, even if they had the "right". It was stupid. 

Well this girl is also in a ecclesiastical position, she was set apart.  

If the YW president had posted a similar video, would the Bishop have no authority to call her on it?

I see a YW president calling out a girl who she has leadership and stewardship over.  Not too big of a deal.

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, yjacket said:

He obviously felt you were immodest

In other words he was perving on her.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Well this girl is also in a ecclesiastical position, she was set apart.  

If the YW president had posted a similar video, would the Bishop have no authority to call her on it?

I see a YW president calling out a girl who she has leadership and stewardship over.  Not too big of a deal.

Like I said before, I would have the bishop involved, and talk to the parents first. Cornering her in a car without warning to either her or her parents was stupid, if not wrong.

[yjacket]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Hmm. If a male adult pulls a young female aside because he is "offended" by her swimsuit, is there any other way to interpret that than the way I am interpreting it? I mean I'm not one who is in any regard one of those anti-modesty folk who claim men should just control themselves and therefore no-modesty=good or some such. But really, in this situation I would have called the guy a perv and told him if he ever spoke to me like that again I'd bring harassment charges against him.

No. I don't regard that at all.  I can look at 6 year old girls at the beach see a bikini on them, "be offended" (who knows what words the guy actually used-memories are faulty), think to myself "why!!!" without being a perv.

Unfortunately society has trained people to think that the only reason someone would say something like this is if they are a perv and that just isn't the case.

[Guest]

Thinking to yourself is one thing, walking up to the girl or her mom and telling her that her suit is too skimpy is pervy.

[yjacket]

 

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

In other words he was perving on her.

Okay, so no guy ever can look at a dress, bikini, etc. and say "that dress/etc. is immodest" without being a perv?

I guess every single adult leader at youth dances who pull out some girl for being immodest is now a perv?

[yjacket]

1 minute ago, Eowyn said:

Thinking to yourself is one thing, walking up to the girl or her mom and telling her that her suit is too skimpy is pervy.

If it was some random dude, I would agree.  But it wasn't some random dude, it was an instructor.  That is not being a perv.

Geez, I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone.  Did no one ever have gym class?  Did no one ever go to high school where the skirt couldn't be 3 inches above the knee.  Male teacher "that skirt is too short and immodest" . . .now it's (gasp!!!!!, HE'S A PERV!!!!!).

Give me a break. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

1 minute ago, yjacket said:

 

Okay, so no guy ever can look at a dress, bikini, etc. and say "that dress/etc. is immodest" without being a perv?

I guess every single adult leader at youth dances who pull out some girl for being immodest is now a perv?

I'd think he should send a female leader to do it, IF either one of them has authority to do so. 

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Telling a girl she posted an inappropriate video that makes her look like a lesbian is more than "talking". 

Is it? I don't know why. What makes it discipline? Was she formally censured? Or was it really just advice from a concerned leader? Can we really say?

[Just_A_Guy]

5 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Telling a girl she posted an inappropriate video that makes her look like a lesbian is more than "talking". (Again, this is all under the premise that things happened as the girl said.) A disciplinary talking to more than "Hey, stop doing what you're doing" is out of line without running it by the parents first and giving them first shot at handling it. Cornering a girl and making those kinds of statements shows a lack of experience with teenagers and/or forethought, even if they had the "right". It was stupid. 

I dunno.  I understand teenagers with delicate sensitivities; but our kids need to be able to handle conversations about porn and homosexuality long before sixteen.

The decision to film oneself in an bathtub is not made in a vacuum.  This kid has been deemed mature enough to mentor peers outside of her family circle--hence, her calling.   She is clearly old enough to think she has sex appeal and contextualize it in her broader pop culture--hence, the video. She is therefore, IMHO, old enough to have grown-up conversations about proper and improper uses of that sex appeal.

[yjacket]

4 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I'd think he should send a female leader to do it, IF either one of them has authority to do so. 

Oh my goodness, this is what is so wrong with the world.  You are now teaching girls that men are predators and pervs.

Oh heaven's to betsy, some guy can't say it b/c if he does he's a perv (maybe there were no other female instructors), but a female instructor can. This is the very definition of sexist.

Geez, I feel sorry for every person who makes mountains out of molehills, move on with life!

Edited April 17, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Is it? I don't know why. What makes it discipline? Was she formally censured? Or was it really just advice from a concerned leader? Can we really say?

Whatever you call it, I would never dare say such a thing to a girl. That's not my kind of advice to hand out. Nor would I take a girl aside on my own and tell her that the way she is with a guy looks bad. I've been the girl on the other side of that, and innocent to boot, and I can tell you it does no one any good. Not only am I making a huge accusation, but maybe introducing thoughts or ideas. What we have done in our ward is have lessons or activities if we see something as a problem for more than one girl; otherwise it is absolutely the place of the parents to have these discussions. 

We are not there to replace or usurp parents. We are there to provide opportunities for the girls and support them when and where asked. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, yjacket said:

 

If the YW president had posted a similar video, would the Bishop have no authority to call her on it?

A YW President is not a minor child.  

Edited April 17, 2017 by miav

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Oh my goodness, this is what is so wrong with the world.  You are now teaching girls that men are predators and pervs.  

Oh heaven's to betsy, some guy can't say it b/c if he does he's a perv (maybe there were no other female instructors), but a female instructor can. 

Geez, I feel sorry for every person who makes mountains out of molehills, move on with life!

I wouldn't call it "pervy"; but given the cat's cradle of gender dynamics and history in play--certainly "awkward" would be an understatement.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 She is therefore, IMHO, old enough to have grown-up conversations about proper and improper uses of that sex appeal.

With the participation of the parents, if not the cooperation/permission.

[Guest]

The reason my daughter and her friend were filming a live stream in their bathtub with swim suits on is because her friend had gotten a bath bomb and they wanted to try it out. 

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, yjacket said:

No. I don't regard that at all.  I can look at 6 year old girls at the beach see a bikini on them, "be offended" (who knows what words the guy actually used-memories are faulty), think to myself "why!!!" without being a perv.

Unfortunately society has trained people to think that the only reason someone would say something like this is if they are a perv and that just isn't the case.

I'm more suggesting, rather, that the kind of guy who feels a need to go up to the young lady and tell them all about how they're inappropriate has some issues.

I don't think being aware of something inappropriate equates to perversion.

I'll grant, I'm reading into the situation where a man (a MAN for pete's sake) feels it's okay to tell a young woman that her bathing suit is too sexy. Who would think that's appropriate? I'm assuming backroads was a teenager at the time.

Of course if there were posted rules or something, then sure. NO BIKINIS ALLOWED. Then one could reasonably tell someone wearing a bikini that they needed to go change. Period. But the situation, as described, seems weird and I'm reading into it perv.  (The perv part may be unfair...but...there it is).

[Backroads]

13 minutes ago, yjacket said:

He obviously felt you were immodest and as an instructor, knowing that you are LDS felt you should set a good example for others and informed you of it.  

Big deal, he called you out.  At this point, who cares.

You seem to.

You also accused me of breaking specific rules. I can assure you I was well within the dictated modesty requirements of a swimsuit. However, those do not always replace a personal view, and this is when he became inappropriate.

To make my point, this is when the YW leaders became inappropriate, when they decided to go into a full-scale morality inquisition (according to report).

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Geez, I feel sorry for every person who makes mountains out of molehills, move on with life!

Says the guy freaking out that anyone suggest something other than his view.

 

Look, even if a person doesn't agree with my reasons, you ought to be looking out for yourself. Think of how many false accusations have been made against men who probably just mean well. I'm pretty sure that's something I've seen you discuss, in fact. It's just not wise to put yourself in the place of a modesty officer for girls who aren't your children. 

[Just_A_Guy]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

With the participation of the parents, if not the cooperation/permission.

One wonders what kind of OP we would have seen here if the YW leadership had merely said "that video was out of line.  Don't do it anymore, or you will be released", and then ended the conversation.

[Backroads]

9 minutes ago, yjacket said:

If it was some random dude, I would agree.  But it wasn't some random dude, it was an instructor.  That is not being a perv.

Geez, I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone.  Did no one ever have gym class?  Did no one ever go to high school where the skirt couldn't be 3 inches above the knee.  Male teacher "that skirt is too short and immodest" . . .now it's (gasp!!!!!, HE'S A PERV!!!!!).

Give me a break. 

3 inches above the knee or whatever measurements you have are only so-so indicators of modesty. Bodies are different and short of a burka it's very hard to apply blanket rules that make every spectator "comfortable".

You may feel you're in the Twilight Zone. I am having flashbacks to he-who-shall-not-be-named.

[person0]

29 minutes ago, Lilyflowers88 said:

The reason my daughter and her friend were filming a live stream in their bathtub with swim suits on is because her friend had gotten a bath bomb and they wanted to try it out. 

Why wouldn't you just film it and keep it for family use only?

I feel that what the leaders did was inappropriate, but in general, social media is just way too much these days with how people use it.  I have stopped using social media altogether because, although I'm not a particularly private person, people just put every thing they do, and who really cares about what you had for dinner, or that your child got a participation trophy in the 3 legged race, etc, etc, etc?

That being said, you've certainly got a memory, this experience will remain with you both for the rest of your lives  (unless you get Amnesia) 

Edited April 17, 2017 by person0

[yjacket]

Just now, Eowyn said:

What we have done in our ward is have lessons or activities if we see something as a problem for more than one girl; 

One of the problems in this world in today in teaching children.  No one actually, you know, directly confronts the child and says, xyz is wrong-don't do it.  If one child has a problem, we baby them, we give the lesson to everyone while really giving the lesson to only one kid so as to afford any "awkward" situation.

No one wants to make the actual child with the problem the responsible party so we instead socialize the entire instruction that needs to be directly addressed to the child.  It is good to make a child frustrated, it is good to directly call them out. It lets them know unequivocally where we stand and where they should stand too.  

Now, we shouldn't be jerks about it, but this socialization of one individuals problem to the entire group is balderdash.  And that is one thing that kids are missing the most in today's society that one-on-one personal instruction/mentoring/etc.  Every leader today wants to be their "friend" instead of being their leader, it's quite frankly crap.

None of my leaders growing up were my friend, they were my leaders, I respected them, I had great relationships with them, but they sure weren't my "friend".