Am I Good Enough? Will I Make It?


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3 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I came across an analogy of the atonement I thought worked pretty well.

 

A child was getting piano lessons.  The child had no way to pay for the lessons.  The parent paid for the lesson that the child could in no way do, but then made their own terms for the child.  Namely that the child had to practice every day what was being taught.

Christ is the parent.  We are the child, there is no way we can pay the price for our sins, but we can give Christ what he asks for. And that is for use to practice what he teaches us everyday.

Yes and if the child doesn't ever practice as was agreed, the parent will stop paying for the lessons.  Just as if we decide to stop keeping the commandments, we can 'fall from grace'.  Excellent analogy.

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I have (perhaps) a very different view.  I do not think the question of “making it” is even a valid question.   I would proport that if someone is the kind to “coast” if they know they have made it – then they would be much happier and better off “coasting” in a non-Celestial Kingdom governed by laws that would make coasting a perfect fit for them.

I do not believe we will stand before G-d at our “final judgment” not quite good enough for what anyone should have accomplished.  I believe we will council with G-d to determine if we have finished and completed what we want and intend to accomplish.  I do not believe G-d will force anyone to any existence and society of covenants and laws they do not intend and want to live by.

Those that feel Celestial laws and being a saint is restrictive to things they enjoy most – will find laws and covenants much more liberating to their desires and passions.  I think many are confused and worried about things that do not really matter.  Unlike making in the NBA – winning a starting position is not what the plan of salvation is all about.  In fact, it appears to me – it is not about obtaining anything for yourself but more the joy (if there is joy) in sacrificing for others.  That is assuming Celestial is your goal.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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*Putting on admin hat*   

May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses.  This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine.  If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section.

Thanks.

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18 minutes ago, pam said:

*Putting on admin hat*   

May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses.  This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine.  If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section.

Thanks.

So, we can't talk about KFC either?  Dang!

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I read a book recently, Following Christ by Stephen E. Robinson and in it, he describes being saved and entering into the kingdom of God as being achieved at baptism. We repent, we're baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost and we're confirmed a part of the kingdom as we accept Christ as our Savior and take upon us His name. We are in. No worries. So long as we keep to the covenant(by continuing to repent(and implicit in that isn't to repeat offenses without trying to do better in the future but to use repentance to constantly correct, progress, and improve)) then we are "safe" in our inheritance. The whole point of works and following Christ's example is to not only build and strengthen our own faith and that of others but to force the natural man, the physical body to submit to the Spirit. We came down here to gain a body and to learn to control it and to be tested in our faith in God. We do that by submitting to His will, We cannot succeed without Him, after all. I haven't finished the book but that struck me as a new way of looking at it that sort of explains the whole works and faith thing. Like, looking at the two things as separate parts of a whole.

Edited by a mustard seed
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9 hours ago, pam said:

*Putting on admin hat*   

May I just put out a friendly reminder that this particular section of the forums is an LDS Gospel Forum and should always reflect LDS doctrine/teachings/beliefs in the responses.  This is NOT a forum for debate between LDS doctrine and non LDS doctrine.  If you aren't LDS and want to pursue a topic, start a thread in the Christian Beliefs section.

Thanks.

The subtitle for this thread is "Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine."

I think you'll find I was asking questions about LDS theology.  Perhaps you should have that subtitle modified to say that no Christian concepts are allowed. 

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18 minutes ago, runewell said:

The subtitle for this thread is "Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine."

I think you'll find I was asking questions about LDS theology.  Perhaps you should have that subtitle modified to say that no Christian concepts are allowed. 

There is a difference between asking questions and debating the LDS beliefs and doctrine that are presented.  It was just a reminder to everyone.  

And thank you for your suggestion for the subtitle.  There are probably a few updates we need to do on the site.  Most of the descriptions have been around since the site started several years ago.

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9 hours ago, a mustard seed said:

I read a book recently, Following Christ by Stephen E. Robinson and in it, he describes being saved and entering into the kingdom of God as being achieved at baptism. We repent, we're baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost and we're confirmed a part of the kingdom as we accept Christ as our Savior and take upon us His name. We are in. No worries. So long as we keep to the covenant(by continuing to repent(and implicit in that isn't to repeat offenses without trying to do better in the future but to use repentance to constantly correct, progress, and improve)) then we are "safe" in our inheritance.

This idea, of course, depends on how one defines the words being used. What is "saved"? What is the "kingdom of God"? Obviously these terms (particularly "saved") can get a bit muddled as they are not always used consistently, even in scripture. But we know that God's goal for us, and what our goal should be, is exaltation. I would dare say that if one replaced the baptismal ordinance in the concept above with the marriage sealing ordinance and replaced "saved" with "exalted" then the idea would be both clearer and closer to accurate.

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2 hours ago, pam said:

There is a difference between asking questions and debating the LDS beliefs and doctrine that are presented.  It was just a reminder to everyone.  

And thank you for your suggestion for the subtitle.  There are probably a few updates we need to do on the site.  Most of the descriptions have been around since the site started several years ago.

Be sure to put, in big, bold, letters:  "We are NOT a Christian board.  No Christianity allowed here!!!" ;)

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18 minutes ago, pam said:

Go drink a root beer or something.  Sheesh. :)

But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state.

Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible.  Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits.  The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin.

So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. 

It's the only Christian thing to do.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state.

Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible.  Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits.  The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin.

So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. 

It's the only Christian thing to do.

Oh brother.

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Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

Now, now, young lady.  Don't judge me until you've bought an eight-ball in my shoes.

Where is the JAG I know and what did you do with him?  He is usually one making the old lady jokes aimed at me. :P

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49 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But if I choose root beer, rather than vodka or crystal meth; then I'm trying to avoid sin, and trying to "earn" my salvation, and thereby signaling my lack of faith in Jesus and my truly damned state.

Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible.  Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits.  The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin.

So rather than getting a root beer I need to find a heroin dealer, shoot him, steal his stash, get myself good and wasted, and then go home and beat my wife--trusting wholly in Jesus to clean up the mess I've made, and crowing all the while about my moral superiority to those faithless rubes who commit the heresy of living prudently. 

It's the only Christian thing to do.

Correct, "personal responsibility" is out the door.

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Logically, if I really want to be saved, I must take each and every opportunity to sin as flagrantly and flamboyantly as possible.  Anything less equals a reliance on my own merits.  The Bible clearly says that the path to true humility and salvation, lies in giving my life over to sin.

Romans 6:1-2

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 

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