Am I Good Enough? Will I Make It?

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, runewell said:

"Really trying" implies more than repent. 

It does?

[Guest]

Just now, runewell said:

If he meant "repent", why didn't he just say "repent"?  "Really trying" implies more than repent.  Of course I am all for repentance and coming to Christ.

Apparently, you don't know our faith as well as you think you do.  What do you think "really trying" means?  Is it the Lord's job to tell you what you want or expect to hear?  Or is it your job to seek Him out?

[Vort]

1 minute ago, runewell said:

If he meant "repent", why didn't he just say "repent"?  "Really trying" implies more than repent.

I just love it when anti-Mormons lecture us, not only on what we believe, but on the proper interpretation of what our leaders teach. Elder Cornish didn't mean what we all understood him to mean; rather, he meant what runewell says he meant.

[zil]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

We must stay true to Chik-fil-a, the only true and living chicken fast food with which we are well pleased.

OK - they have really good shakes.  :: drool ::

[Guest]

Just now, Vort said:

I just love it when anti-Mormons lecture us, not only on what we believe, but on the proper interpretation of what our leaders teach. Elder Cornish didn't mean what we all understood him to mean; rather, he meant what runewell says he meant.

So, "really trying" means that we must behave in such a way that people say "he's really trying at times."

[runewell]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

The two scriptures you cite teach the same prenciple, using similar wording. Nephi taught that even after all we can do, it's by grace that we are saved -- the very same thing Paul taught. How 'bout that.

So you agree with Paul that our works will not save us (and are not necessary for salvation?)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

OK - they have really good shakes.  :: drool ::

What!?!?  KFC has shakes?  Trying...to...stay away ... from the evil chicken master...

AAHAHGHGH!!! I have to go now.  I'll catch you later.

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

What!?!?  KFC has shakes?  Trying...to...stay away ... from the evil chicken master...

AAHAHGHGH!!! I have to go now.  I'll catch you later.

Um, I was quoting your Chick-Fil-A ad - Chick-Fil-A have really good shakes.  But KFC's are good too.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, runewell said:

So you agree with Paul that our works will not save us (and are not necessary for salvation?)

Are you saying that repentance is not going to save us?  So, how do we come to Christ again?

[runewell]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

OK - they have really good shakes.  :: drool ::

Chicken + waffle fries + lemonade = yum (good common ground)

[Guest]

Just now, zil said:

Um, I was quoting your Chick-Fil-A ad - Chick-Fil-A have really good shakes.

Phew!  Ok.  I guess I'll be ok.

Just now, zil said:

But KFC's are good too.

What!?!?  Gotta go.

[runewell]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Are you saying that repentance is not going to save us?  So, how do we come to Christ again?

Are you saying that repentance = really trying?

[Guest]

Just now, runewell said:

Are you saying that repentance = really trying?

So, you do believe repentance is necessary.  Got it.

[Vort]

Just now, runewell said:

So you agree with Paul that our works will not save us

We are saved by grace, not by whatever acts we may perform. Even ordinances alone don't save us. Of course I agree with that.

Just now, runewell said:

(and are not necessary for salvation?)

This is untrue, runewell.

Paul did not say that works were unnecessary for salvation. For example, repentance is a "work", without which you cannot be saved. Paul taught the obvious truth that we cannot save ourselves. Our petty acts of worship, prayer, repentance, baptism -- none of those will save us. Only the blood of Christ will save us.

So how do we gain the blood of Christ? By accepting Christ and loving him.

How do we accept and love Christ? He told us: By doing as he told us to do.

Christ told us to be baptized -- a work, without which we cannot be saved.

Christ told us to repent -- a work, without which we cannot be saved.

Christ told us to be perfect -- a monumental work, without which we cannot be saved.

Why can't we be saved without such things? Because such things are what is meant by "coming unto Christ" and "accepting the atonement". Remember Matthew 7:21:

Quote

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Yes, that's right. Jesus himself taught the necessity of works. How about that?

[runewell]

 

Quote

 love the way President Gordon B. Hinckley used to teach this principle. I heard him say on several occasions, “Brothers and sisters, all the Lord expects of us is to try, but you have to really try!”³

 

Quote

“Really trying” means doing the best we can, recognizing where we need to improve, and then trying again. 

 

That's not repenting.

[Vort]

Just now, runewell said:

That's not repenting.

Goodbye, runewell.

[runewell]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

Christ told us to be perfect -- a monumental work, without which we cannot be saved.

So how do we accomplish this?

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, runewell said:

So how do we accomplish this?

Through trying.

[Lostboy289]

Repenting is just one part of the process, a necessary part of the process, but just one. It is not enough to simply apologize for your actions after the fact, using the process as a Platinum "Get out of Jail Free" card.

We validate that repentance through striving for good works and improvement in every day of our lives. Striving for every inch closer to the lord, every millimeter even.

However if the standard set down by the Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is the measuring stick that we must cross in order to earn our place by his side, than that is a line that every one of us will come up short on. Far, far short.

What matters most of all is the striving, the trying, the never giving up even when we fall off the path. As long as we go into our lives trying to do good and mirror Christ in our lives, regardless of how short we come up, he will make up the difference.

A complicated issue seems to be more knowing if you are truly striving enough. Unfortunately that is a tricky one, as there is no hard and fast standard for that. It differs for every one of us, and even for ourselves at different places in our lives. Luckily, we can get answers to that through regular prayer and a close relationship with our Heavenly Father. Go in with an open heart asking if there is more you can do.

 

[zil]

19 minutes ago, runewell said:

That's not repenting.

Oh yes it is.

[runewell]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Oh yes it is.

 

The Miriam-Webster definition of repentance (the first one, anyway) says 

"to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life"  Contrast that with:

“Really trying” means doing the best we can, recognizing where we need to improve, and then trying again. By repeatedly doing this, we come closer and closer to the Lord

This doesn't seem like a recognition of sin and turning away from said sin but rather an attempt to maintain perfection - like a self-help book.  If this phrase refers to turning away from sin it doesn't seem to want to call it as such. 

[runewell]

15 minutes ago, Lostboy289 said:

Repenting is just one part of the process, a necessary part of the process, but just one. It is not enough to simply apologize for your actions after the fact, using the process as a Platinum "Get out of Jail Free" card.

We validate that repentance through striving for good works and improvement in every day of our lives. Striving for every inch closer to the lord, every millimeter even.

However if the standard set down by the Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is the measuring stick that we must cross in order to earn our place by his side, than that is a line that every one of us will come up short on. Far, far short.

What matters most of all is the striving, the trying, the never giving up even when we fall off the path. As long as we go into our lives trying to do good and mirror Christ in our lives, regardless of how short we come up, he will make up the difference.

A complicated issue seems to be more knowing if you are truly striving enough. Unfortunately that is a tricky one, as there is no hard and fast standard for that. It differs for every one of us, and even for ourselves at different places in our lives. Luckily, we can get answers to that through regular prayer and a close relationship with our Heavenly Father. Go in with an open heart asking if there is more you can do.

 

Thanks Lostboy, I appreciate your comments.  What I don't understand it, if we are going to fall short, how close do we need to be?  

I would think that there is always more you can do.  Theoretically, if we are saved after all we can do, there is certainly something more we could have done, therefore we have not done all we can do, therefore we have no reason to expect to be saved?

[Vort]

Just now, runewell said:

What I don't understand it, if we are going to fall short, how close do we need to be?

The question shows that you don't understand what you're asking about. But at least it's an honest question, so in that sense, it's a great improvement.

1 minute ago, runewell said:

Theoretically, if we are saved after all we can do, there is certainly something more we could have done

You continue to misunderstand this phrase. I have to wonder if it's intentional, that you want to misunderstand it and attribute your misunderstanding to Christ's doctrine, thus arguing against it.

Once more:

Even after all we can do, it's the blood of Christ that saves us. We must repent, but our repentance does not save us. Christ's blood does. But it is through repentance that we accept Christ's blood.

[Lostboy289]

4 minutes ago, runewell said:

Thanks Lostboy, I appreciate your comments.  What I don't understand it, if we are going to fall short, how close do we need to be?  

I would think that there is always more you can do.  Theoretically, if we are saved after all we can do, there is certainly something more we could have done, therefore we have not done all we can do, therefore we have no reason to expect to be saved?

That's the thing is there is no definite rule here. No place where we can say "Ok, ive made it. God has got me covered for the rest"

What matters is genuine intent. Even more than results.

 As yourself if you can feel comfortable standing in front of your Lord and saying that you really did your best.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Lostboy289

[zil]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Even after all we can do, it's the blood of Christ that saves us. We must repent, but our repentance does not save us. Christ's blood does. But it is through repentance that we accept Christ's blood.

Thus, if I need to repent of 12 million things, and Vort only needs to repent of 12 thousand things, our comparative "shortness" is irrelevant.  Each has fully repented, and by so doing has accepted the blood of Christ and is redeemed through Him.  To maintain that status, one needs only continue to repent (in other words, recognize where we need to improve, turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life - by trying again).