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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). 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Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. 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    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
Rob Osborn

Security to never fall away from the church? Here it is.

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On a debate on a different board I have been debating with those who fall away or are in the process of it. Three things are always disregarded in a persons decay away from the church into inactivity or leaving the church. Here they are

1. Complete support for the prophets and their cousel

2. Obedience to the commandments

3. Serving your neighbor always, whoever it may be with the pure love of Christ

Any lack or slack of one or combination of those three will always lead to falling away from the church. No person, having perfect faith and obedience to the prophets and commandments while serving others with the pure love of Christ, has ever fallen away from the church.

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43 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

On a debate on a different board I have been debating with those who fall away or are in the process of it. Three things are always disregarded in a persons decay away from the church into inactivity or leaving the church. Here they are

1. Complete support for the prophets and their cousel

2. Obedience to the commandments

3. Serving your neighbor always, whoever it may be with the pure love of Christ

Any lack or slack of one or combination of those three will always lead to falling away from the church. No person, having perfect faith and obedience to the prophets and commandments while serving others with the pure love of Christ, has ever fallen away from the church.

Essentially, this is like saying, "If you always remain firmly on the path of Christ, you will never leave the path. " This strikes me as tautological and lacking in probative or illuminating value.

What may prove more useful is discerning the causes for lack of, or loss of sufficient faith, obedience, and charity, which leads to loss of membership.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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15 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Essentially, this is like saying, "If you always remain firmly on the path of Christ, you will never leave the path. " This strikes me as tautological and lacking in probative or illuminating value.

What may prove more useful is discerning the causes for lack of, or loss of sufficient faith, obedience, and charity, which leads to loss of membership.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Its simple. Like I said, if you find someone falling away its definitely not because they were obedient and folliwing and supporting the prophets counsel. Many who fall away claim they were all in 100% but then you find out they do not agree with the prophets. So, they werent really in 100% afterall.

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4 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Its simple. Like I said, if you find someone falling away its definitely not because they were obedient and folliwing and supporting the prophets counsel. Many who fall away claim they were all in 100% but then you find out they do not agree with the prophets. So, they werent really in 100% afterall.

To me, that is oversimplification. Members can go from 100% in, relatively speaking, to something far less. Your tautology doesn't account for this.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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23 minutes ago, wenglund said:

To me, that is oversimplification. Members can go from 100% in, relatively speaking, to something far less. Your tautology doesn't account for this.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And how do they get there? My point is that someone truly faithful has no reason to worry whereas someone that neglects his neighbor, views porn occasionally, etc, is already on that road to apostacy and they may not even know why, when some random topic comes up and shakes their testimony and they claim "I went to church, I paid my tithing, I did my home or visiting teaching.

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I copied this post from someone. It literally proves the point-

"I struggled for years before I finally left the church and for about a year before I did decide to leave, I was all in. I was preparing for the temple. I was not just reading the Book of Mormon, I was studying it and writing journal entries about what I felt. I was going to church and praying for my doubts to disappear and to be able to overlook all the hurtful things that the GAs were doing and saying. And you know what happened? Not a damn thing.

Was it because of a character flaw that I didn't get the "right" answer to my prayers?"

 

Had this person not had hurtful feelings with the prophets they wouldnt have fallen away. They were not obedient in their faith.

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May I offer input?

Quote

D&C 45:56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

I would like to suggest, if I may the following three things to ensure one never falls away, straight from Jesus Christ:

1. Receive the truth (from the scriptures, prophets, i.e. Nephi, Joseph Smith, Thomas S. Monson, etc)

2. Take the Holy Spirit only for your guide (2 Nephi 32)

3. Be not deceived (prophets have been deceived from the Old Testament to D&C, including Joseph Smith who lost the 116 page manuscript).

If you have the Holy Ghost and do whatsoever it tells you, you will never be led astray. If you take the Holy Ghost only for your guide, you will discern deception from anyone. And you will abide the day of the Lord's coming. The following witness is from Nephi:

Quote

2 Nephi 32:

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.

Be ye therefore wise

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18 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I copied this post from someone. It literally proves the point-

"I struggled for years before I finally left the church and for about a year before I did decide to leave, I was all in. I was preparing for the temple. I was not just reading the Book of Mormon, I was studying it and writing journal entries about what I felt. I was going to church and praying for my doubts to disappear and to be able to overlook all the hurtful things that the GAs were doing and saying. And you know what happened? Not a damn thing.

Was it because of a character flaw that I didn't get the "right" answer to my prayers?"

 

Had this person not had hurtful feelings with the prophets they wouldnt have fallen away. They were not obedient in their faith.

I believe I understand you're main point on this, and you are absolutely right that there's no way this person was actually 'all in' as they claim.  The fact that they believed the General Authorities were saying and doing hurtful things is evidence enough.  When do the GA's actually do and say hurtful things?  Except for the occasional times when they may be acting individually and not within their calling, the ones who are hurt are most often the wicked/guilty who take the truth to be hard.  One huge problem is that many lie to themselves or lead themselves to believe they are truly 'all in' just because they are studying their scriptures the right way like they hadn't done before; that's not enough.

With that in mind, it is also true that it's not always that simple.  Often those who are taking offense are offended by their interpretation of actions/statements rather than the actual thing that was done/said and the true meaning/intention.  In the end, in this persons case, they really weren't 'all in', because they didn't adequately seek additional interpretation of what was said/done, nor appropriately reevaluate their own opinion on the matter to determine that the GA's were right and they were wrong.  Now what the reason is behind why they weren't doing that is what is left for discovery.

Either the Church is true, or it's not, it is that simple (conceptually).  If it's not, one then must determine how important that is to their ideals of religion and the universe, and act accordingly.  If it is, then one must figure out what is wrong with themselves, and change.  Too many people believe it is true but do not change, or refuse to; those people are not 'all in' either.

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6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

On a debate on a different board I have been debating with those who fall away or are in the process of it. Three things are always disregarded in a persons decay away from the church into inactivity or leaving the church. Here they are

1. Complete support for the prophets and their cousel

2. Obedience to the commandments

3. Serving your neighbor always, whoever it may be with the pure love of Christ

Any lack or slack of one or combination of those three will always lead to falling away from the church. No person, having perfect faith and obedience to the prophets and commandments while serving others with the pure love of Christ, has ever fallen away from the church.

These aren't a list of things to do to stay in the church, this is a list of things that people do if they ARE fully active in the church x)

I do, however, agree 100%, but we should be careful in making it a list. I think things like "continually progress", and other things of the such should be on there too... but again, lists and todo lists for gospel success are never perfect.

i can think of situations where one who does these things can still fall away. If one is doing the 3 things, but is not converted himself through pondering, study and serious searching, holding on to those 3 will become difficult and exhausting. Understanding the doctrine as to WHY see di these things takes away the exhaustion of doing them.

Elder David A Bednar gives a fantastic talk called "The Doctrine is the Answer"... but I can't find it so here is a link to someone making a similar statement and referencing Elder Bednar.

http://oneclimbs.com/2013/08/01/what-are-doctrines-principles-applications/

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Rob makes a great point in saying 

4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

And how do they get there? My point is that someone truly faithful has no reason to worry whereas someone that neglects his neighbor, views porn occasionally, etc, is already on that road to apostacy and they may not even know why, when some random topic comes up and shakes their testimony and they claim "I went to church, I paid my tithing, I did my home or visiting teaching.

I personally have done this in the past when I have faced struggles or promised blessings were not met... I simply cannot take someone's word when they say "I did everything right and I still fell away". There is just TOO MUCH to consider in that phrase and only the person making the statement and God know for sure.

And when we talk about being "100% in", we are talking about the physical application of principles and not the personal understanding and conversion to the doctrines and principles. That is just as important as the application.

3 hours ago, skalenfehl said:

2. Take the Holy Spirit only for your guide (2 Nephi 32)

3. Be not deceived (prophets have been deceived from the Old Testament to D&C, including Joseph Smith who lost the 116 page manuscript).

If you have the Holy Ghost and do whatsoever it tells you, you will never be led astray. If you take the Holy Ghost only for your guide, you will discern deception from anyone. And you will abide the day of the Lord's coming. The following witness is from Nephi:

Be ye therefore wise

The Holy Ghost is not going to guide you in all things. Part of this life is to learn how to choose good over evil on our own. We are to be like Heavenly Father and he doesn't need to pray to find out what is good or evil. He has learned himself and we should too. A combination of the holy ghost and "be ye ptherefore wise" as you mentioned is essential.

I don't think we should put a pin in something that keeps someone in or drags someone out of the church. It is just too broad if a topic with far too many variables.

Edited by Fether

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17 minutes ago, Fether said:

The Holy Ghost is not going to guide you in all things.

Quote

Nephi: 5. For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.

 

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4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Rob, I think your post is interesting, but I agree with Wade. It's just not that simple.

Actually it really is that simple.  But it just isn't so simple.

What I mean is:  His list essentially says: If you make sure you never fall away, then you'll never fall away.  Well, duh-uh.

EDIT:  oops.  I guess Wade beat me to the punch.

Edited by Carborendum

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3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Actually it really is that simple.  But it just isn't so simple.

What I mean is:  His list essentially says: If you make sure you never fall away, then you'll never fall away.  Well, duh-uh.

The issue is that we members rarely if ever get to know why someone fell away. We prefer to put them in little boxes because it makes us feel better about ourselves and the church. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The issue is that we members rarely if ever get to know why someone fell away. We prefer to put them in little boxes because it makes us feel better about ourselves and the church. 

This is absolutely true.  We really don't.  The sad part is that they don't know either.

The sad truth is that of those that I knew well (and I've known very well more than a few who have left) the seeds of discontent were so subtle, so long term, and so pervasive that they themselves didn't even know why they were leaving.  They felt the discontent long before they ever left.  When they finally do leave, they don't even see the real reason why they left.  They think it was for a completely different reason.  They blamed it on something fairly obvious.  But the signs I saw were there before the obvious was ever around.

Anyone who thinks they're immune just doesn't know how the subtle works of the devil are.

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9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

This is absolutely true.  We really don't.  The sad part is that they don't know either.

The sad truth is that of those that I knew well (and I've known very well more than a few who have left) the seeds of discontent were so subtle, so long term, and so pervasive that they themselves didn't even know why they were leaving.  They felt the discontent long before they ever left.  When they finally do leave, they don't even see the real reason why they left.  They think it was for a completely different reason.  They blamed it on something fairly obvious.  But the signs I saw were there before the obvious was ever around.

Anyone who thinks they're immune just doesn't know how the subtle works of the devil are.

Those falling away are never those who support the prophets and are diligent in being obedient to the prophets counsel and serve others.

I fell away several times and each time I can trace it back to those things. Of those whom I know who have fallen away its always the same. Never are they true saints or acting like it.

Edited by Rob Osborn

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