Unpleasant Behavior at work

[NightSG]

12 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

shaking a fist in someone's face

When it moves into the actual assault category, it's easy; udegaesh, step through and throw.  Finish with a vascular restraint as needed and let police deal with it from there.

(Hmm...what judo calls udegaesh is much nastier than the aikido version if uke doesn't know how to fall.  Best to stick to aikido on this one.)

 

[anatess2]

I didn't answer your poll.  There was no None of the Above option.

 

On 5/25/2017 at 8:45 AM, Sunday21 said:

So who ever was behaving that way would be unemployed? Really is it that easy to fire someone where you live? We would have to pay 3-4 weeks salary per year of service, in some situations 4-5 weeks salary per year of service. Bad behaviour tends to be worse in public admin than in manufacturing (USA). I wonder if that is because people who behave badly stay longer in public admin. Better job security.

Depends on the business.  If you're working for a big corporation, you get HR referrals first to mediate the situation either through disciplinary action, re-training, re-assignment, etc., before you get fired.  If it is a small business and you have a dime-a-dozen skillset, chances are, you're going to get fired on the spot.  If you work for the public sector, you can be the laziest incompetent blob on the planet and you'd still be working at the same job 30 years later.

Edited June 1, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:47 PM, Sunday21 said:

I am thinking of doing some research on those who observe coworkers being subjected to unpleasant behavior at work. I will begin by giving participants a definition of mistreatment which will range from things like:

not passing on information that someone needs to do their work

not inviting someone to an important meeting

shaking a fist in someone's face

cruel jokes, ridicule

racial slurs & insults

swearing

not inviting someone to lunch with colleagues

Yep.  You're Canadian.

[anatess2]

On 5/25/2017 at 10:12 AM, NightSG said:

When it moves into the actual assault category, it's easy; udegaesh, step through and throw.  Finish with a vascular restraint as needed and let police deal with it from there.

(Hmm...what judo calls udegaesh is much nastier than the aikido version if uke doesn't know how to fall.  Best to stick to aikido on this one.)

 

Dude, even my jiujitsu kid knows that if someone is shaking a fist in your face, you just walk away.  Now, if their fist is about to hit your face, then yeah, sure, udegaesh as much as you want.

[Sunday21]

20 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yep.  You're Canadian.

So clearly, I need to interview Americans and get my head sorted!

[zil]

11 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

get my head sorted

[anatess2]

27 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

So clearly, I need to interview Americans and get my head sorted!

Interview me.  I'm Filipino, living in America, working for Germans.  What's the question?

[zil]

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

What's the question?

Pretty sure the question is how to sort @Sunday21's head.   I'll bet the Germans have an excellent system in place for this. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by zil

[Sunday21]

45 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Interview me.  I'm Filipino, living in America, working for Germans.  What's the question?

Thanks so much! I do not have the precise question yet! I am looking at all the papers written in the field right now. Something like: In what situations would you feel compassion for a colleague who is being treated badly at work? What do you think should be done? Why is the person being treated badly? Is it their fault?

So if the answer is Nothing! Or be nasty to the person, this is fine! As you can imagine most of those that I know will be "Be nice to the person who is being treated badly" so if the noncanadians that I interview say "Hit the person over the head with a stool". This response is good! So straighten out those Canadians! I will protect everyone's privacy very very carefully and in a long list of ways! As far as I am concerned you will be "Person A"

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, zil said:

Pretty sure the question is how to sort @Sunday21's head.   I'll bet the German's have an excellent system in place for this. 

Yes, for sure.

Here's the system:

1. Immigrant heads first

2. Globalists next

3. EU statists after that

4. Feminists after that

5. Leftists are next.

6. All others you can put back in the basket.  They're all Nazi's.

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Thanks so much! I do not have the precise question yet! I am looking at all the papers written in the field right now. Something like: In what situations would you feel compassion for a colleague who is being treated badly at work? What do you think should be done? Why is the person being treated badly? Is it their fault?

So if the answer is Nothing! Or be nasty to the person, this is fine! As you can imagine most of those that I know will be "Be nice to the person who is being treated badly" so if the noncanadians that I interview say "Hit the person over the head with a stool". This response is good! So straighten out those Canadians! I will protect everyone's privacy very very carefully and in a long list of ways! As far as I am concerned you will be "Person A"

The problem with this interview is that these things are very case specific.  It's not something you can just generalize like - if they got spat on, then it's not their fault... etc.  In any case, those questions are not really work-specific except for the "How do you handle conflict in a work environment?" one.  Because, whatever is "treated badly" outside of work would be the exact same as "treated badly" at work  Like - shaking your fist at somebody... that is not a work-related question because shaking your fist at somebody has nothing to do with work.  You could ask the same thing at the playground.  Now, work-related conflicts would be things like - poor management, incompetence, poor customer service, process failures, etc. 

As far as general "treated badly" things - the difference between outside of work and inside work is how you go about solving the problem.  Each place of business have different rules for handling inter-office conflicts.  So, I guess I don't understand what behaviors your research is studying.  Because, first of all, "treated badly" at this point is subjective and case specific.  For example, you may think you're treated badly when you're just being a snowflake... etc.

Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and tell you how conflict-resolution is done at my current job (which is different from the resolution steps from my previous job).  In my current job, my biggest challenge is being given a task where I am responsible for the outcome but I don't have power to accomplish it.  For example - I am given the task to produce a report for some bigwig within 8 hours.  If I fail at this task, the bigwig is going to see my name as the responsible person on this delivery which could affect my ability to get more projects (I work/get paid by project contract).  But, to produce the report, I am completely dependent on the data source.  I don't have power over the data source, so if the data guy gives me crap data or is late in giving me data, my task will fail.  I can't apply any consequences to the data guy for the failure and I can't demand that he produce quality work.  So, I have 3 choices - 1.) do the job and risk failure, 2.) turn down the project (not good for my reputation), 3.) present the problem to the bigwig for him to decide what to do (applies to US project. If it's a German project, we go to worker's council).  If I go with option 3 and the bigwig doesn't do anything I go back to either option 1.) or 2.) or 3.) go to the bigwig's boss.  So, depending on the situation, I can choose either one of those 3 - I would choose option 1 if I know the data guy's work ethic personally.  If not, I would go with option 3 and if that doesn't work out, I go with option 2 as my last resort.

Now, let's say I wasn't assigned the project but I see some other guy assigned the project.  I'm going to talk to the guy and point to him the pitfalls of the project and what I would do if I was in his shoes.

Ok, so how about if my boss is a racist against Filipinos?  Depends.  If I'm getting paid good money, he can call me monkey and disrespect me all he wants as long as that paycheck keeps coming.  If I'm not getting paid good enough to put up with racists, then I'd quit my job and find better work.  What if my boss is racist to my black workmate?  I'm going to go talk to that workmate and ask him if he's paid enough money to put up with racists.  If not, I'll help him find another job.  You might say... why do I not report the boss to HR or something?  Because... just because you're a racist doesn't mean you are not good at your job.   What does it matter if he's a racist if he can produce high quality work that makes me good money?  His racism is his problem.  Now, if he sucks at his job or he is gonna cause me to lose my money - racist or not, I'm reporting him to his boss or to HR so they can fix the problem.

Edited June 1, 2017 by anatess2

[zil]

43 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Because, whatever is "treated badly" outside of work would be the exact same as "treated badly" at work  Like - shaking your fist at somebody... that is not a work-related question because shaking your fist at somebody has nothing to do with work.

What if you're a professional boxer?

[anatess2]

20 minutes ago, zil said:

What if you're a professional boxer?

Then you can't shake your fists at somebody because you can't really make a fist with those thick gloves. 

 

[NightSG]

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Dude, even my jiujitsu kid knows that if someone is shaking a fist in your face, you just walk away.  Now, if their fist is about to hit your face, then yeah, sure, udegaesh as much as you want.

If the fist made it to meaningfully close to your face and you didn't evade, deflect and begin a technique before that point, your skill needs work.  You don't know until it stops whether it's a shake, a punch, a grab, etc.

[Bini]

On 5/24/2017 at 7:47 PM, Sunday21 said:

I am thinking of doing some research on those who observe coworkers being subjected to unpleasant behavior at work. I will begin by giving participants a definition of mistreatment which will range from things like:

not passing on information that someone needs to do their work

not inviting someone to an important meeting

shaking a fist in someone's face

cruel jokes, ridicule

racial slurs & insults

swearing

not inviting someone to lunch with colleagues

Any headway in your research on this?

[anatess2]

43 minutes ago, NightSG said:

If the fist made it to meaningfully close to your face and you didn't evade, deflect and begin a technique before that point, your skill needs work.  You don't know until it stops whether it's a shake, a punch, a grab, etc.

Big, ginormous, huge difference between shaking a fist in your face and a punch in the face.  The fist does not exist in a vacuum... Situational awareness is a big part of Martial Arts training (can't say the same for McDojos).

[Sunday21]

@anatess2. Yes you are right! The answer is..it depends on..the severity of the bad treatment and many other issues. First I need to read everything written that remotely relates to the situation. Then I need to come up with big open questions. Things like 'tell me about a time when you saw ....' I then need to let the person talk and tell me how they feel, what they think is important, what they feel should be done. Once I have about 40 people telling me what they feel is important, I can analyse and think of another study with different people. For this second study, I can ask specific questions. For the fist study, the interview study, I need to let other people tell me what is important. Usually the reasearcher finds out that what they thought was important is not important at all!

[Sunday21]

Hi @Bini! I am at the 'read all the previous studies' stage. Then I will come up with big open questions so that people can tell me what they think is important. I am going to ask people that I know to be interviewed so they can tell me what is important to them. I will ask everyone that I interview if they know anyone who has a job and might like to be interviewed. I think that I will drive to nearby towns and attend church there so I can ask people there. I will ask people in the lunch room at the temple. I am hoping to find a lot of Americans because they often feel differently than canadians!  I want to find out things that bother people that they would like to change or just anything that they feel would be a good idea to do! 

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@anatess2. Yes you are right! The answer is..it depends on..the severity of the bad treatment and many other issues. First I need to read everything written that remotely relates to the situation. Then I need to come up with big open questions. Things like 'tell me about a time when you saw ....' I then need to let the person talk and tell me how they feel, what they think is important, what they feel should be done. Once I have about 40 people telling me what they feel is important, I can analyse and think of another study with different people. For this second study, I can ask specific questions. For the fist study, the interview study, I need to let other people tell me what is important. Usually the reasearcher finds out that what they thought was important is not important at all!

Ok, well, you got my answer above unless that doesn't fit what you're looking for.  In the workplace, the most important thing is... Money.

[Sunday21]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Ok, well, you got my answer above unless that doesn't fit what you're looking for.  In the workplace, the most important thing is... Money.

Yes I know what mean! I worked at a university where the president would have a meeting with my department once a year and yell at us. When I heard about this, I said you are kidding! One of the faculty told me that he had worked as a financial analyst in a company where they were balled out constantly but he did not care because he was paid a fortune! So yes, you can treat me badly but if you are paying me big bucks, who cares!

[Sunday21]

@anatess2. Thanks for your response above! Very helpful! 

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes I know what mean! I worked at a university where the president would have a meeting with my department once a year and yell at us. When I heard about this, I said you are kidding! One of the faculty told me that he had worked as a financial analyst in a company where they were balled out constantly but he did not care because he was paid a fortune! So yes, you can treat me badly but if you are paying me big bucks, who cares!

Yep.  Money is the only reason we go to work.  If it's not for the money, we'd be spending 100% of our efforts making sure our visit teaching is awesome, our callings are well done,  we''d gain plumbing skills so we can fix our neighbor's leaky faucet... and we'd do programming because it's super fun... that kind of stuff.  And so if people we have fun with are being racists, mean, etc... we'd send the missionaries to encourage them to have a make-over. 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by anatess2

[seashmore]

When I first started at my part time (fast food) job, there was a manager I worked with every week, who would yell at people. I don't mean "yell" as in "criticize or draw attention to wrongdoings," I mean "yell" as in "raise her voice." I can wall up with the best of them, so the first night she yelled at me about drive thru times (I was just learning), I clammed up, let her holler, and went about my business. The next morning happened to be a Sunday, and I had been adamant about my not working on Sundays, so it was a pretty big deal when I showed up to talk to the store manager. I gave a brief account and told him I would not work somewhere where the managers shouted at employees like that. (Oddly enough, she and I are friends now.)

Little did I know at the time that she had learned the behavior from him. If you do your job to gold star standards, you're generally safe from his wrath, but anything less than that gets you belittled. Usually in front of others. When I was working full time, there was one person he was particularly harsh on, and was one infraction away from me taking it to corporate.

Also, at another job I had in the food service industry, I had a coworker who was harassed by an employee with Down Syndrome. The managers (and my coworker, to a certain extent) saw this as a protected class and did little more than tell his parents. And make him put her phone back. Which irritated me because if any other male employee had pulled any one of this kid's stunts, he'd be gone in a heartbeat. I tried to convince her to at least report the incidents to HR, but she never wanted to. Anyway, the district manager (who had been told of some of the incidents) showed up around lunch time the day after this kid had keyed the word "kiss" into her car. After making his rounds among the managers, the DM asked how I was, and I said, "I had to get [coworker] pizza and ice cream last night because [guy with Down Syndrome] keyed her car yesterday." I was met with a blank stare. Clearly no one else had told him. Their solution was to try and transfer him to a different store. (Where he eventually got fired for spreading feces on a bathroom wall.) I wrote a book on our annual employee survey (there were some unrelated issues I needed to address), and the DM stepped back down to store manager level. The next year, there was no "any additional comments" section.

 

At my current place of employment (local office with about 25 employees) I work with people who are in bad moods all the time, which is what I thought the original post would be about. You know, how to spend 8 hours a day with Negative Nancy and Gloomy Gus. Because I can only project so much sunshine before Debbie Downer tells me to blow it out my backside.

[Sunday21]

@seashmore, Thanks for the post! So when you observed the person being mistreated, did you feel:

angry? Disgusted? Relieved that you were not the target? Fear that you might be next? A combination of these things?

What prompted you to tell the DM?

Sorry to bug you but these are the issues that I am trying to study! 

I want to know why people help (which you did by telling the DM)

[seashmore]

22 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@seashmore, Thanks for the post! So when you observed the person being mistreated, did you feel:

angry? Disgusted? Relieved that you were not the target? Fear that you might be next? A combination of these things?

What prompted you to tell the DM?

Sorry to bug you but these are the issues that I am trying to study! 

I want to know why people help (which you did by telling the DM)

I was angry that management hadn't taken any disciplinary action against the offending employee.  I was also a little bit angry that my friend/roommate/coworker wasn't pushing harder for them to do that herself.  (i.e., I felt they cut him too much slack because of the Down Syndrome.)

I have a natural creeper repellent, so I'm never fearful that I'll be next.  (Honestly, there have been guys I have seen hit on everything breathing, except me.)  I was too busy feeling angry and defensive of my friend to feel relief that it wasn't me.  Because we were also living together, I saw how deeply it troubled her, which is one reason I told the DM.  Also, I knew that the managers who were in the store that day would not have been forthcoming with the whole story, and I wanted to make sure he knew it.  I'm currently having trouble with logging in to my gmail, but once I can, I'll see if the essay I wrote for the employee survey says anything I may have forgotten about.