The Great Plan of Salvation vs Principles & Doctrine

[brotherofJared]

8 hours ago, Traveler said:

How can you change your state of being mortal and having to face death?  How can you or anyone choose not to die?  Thinking you can choose differently is an illusion.

 

I thought I asked you not to make me explain it. Please just use your imagination. It is possible.The choice isn't "not to die". You are thinking in one-dimensional concepts. None of us ever really die. We may leave one plane of existence and move into another, none of us will ever die. The choice isn't to end life, it is how to live and one kind of life that will be.

[The Folk Prophet]

16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

TFP: No, the SOPs are  excluded per the prophets.

Those blasted sons of pandas!

[Traveler]

I apologize - I have never met anyone before now, (including apostles) that have not openly admitted that they are a grossly unfinished repentance work in progress.  I have excused myself thinking that all – most certainly myself, have fallen short and must rely on the mercy of G-d.  I honestly did not know it was possible in this life to over come the world and no longer have concerns about sin.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

10 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I apologize - I have never met anyone before now, (including apostles) that have not openly admitted that they are a grossly unfinished repentance work in progress.  I have excused myself thinking that all – most certainly myself, have fallen short and must rely on the mercy of G-d.  I honestly did not know it was possible in this life to over come the world and no longer have concerns about sin.

 

The Traveler

Thats why we have the millennium.

[brotherofJared]

9 hours ago, Armin said:

"That we may learn the good from the evil - and have knowledge." This also seems to me as a Mormon basic statement, and I can't see a very fundamental dissent between your and  brotherofJared's points of view.

Sorry I was pretty clear that we aren't here to learn the difference between Good and Evil. I interpret learning good from evil as a difference between them.

That's Not what we're here to do. We were given the knowledge to know the difference between Good and Evil when Adam and Eve took of the forbidden fruit. We don't need to learn it. what we are here to do perhaps is to learn the consequences of evil over good. But even that's not what we're here to do.

I believe that we're here to learn about ourselves and what our disposition is towards those two poles. Consider Abraham who was commanded to sacrifice his only son buy a God who saved him from the very same to my eyes and indirect contradiction to everything Abraham new of that God. It was wrong on every level but God commanded him and he carried God's commandment.

It had nothing to do with learning the difference between Good and Evil. Instead, it has everything to do with learning about ourselves and what we will do in given situation.

[The Folk Prophet]

21 hours ago, Traveler said:

I apologize - I have never met anyone before now, (including apostles) that have not openly admitted that they are a grossly unfinished repentance work in progress.  I have excused myself thinking that all – most certainly myself, have fallen short and must rely on the mercy of G-d.  I honestly did not know it was possible in this life to over come the world and no longer have concerns about sin.

As typical, you like to make up a bunch of bull that no script, text, or comment, ever said and proclaim it as if it's fact.

Makes it very difficult to take you seriously.

Here's more edumacation for you from Alma 12: (emphasis added)

18 Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption.

32 Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God.

33 But God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent, and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son;

34 Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest.

35 And whosoever will harden his heart and will do iniquity, behold, I swear in my wrath that he shall not enter into my rest.

36 And now, my brethren, behold I say unto you, that if ye will harden your hearts ye shall not enter into the rest of the Lord; therefore your iniquity provoketh him that he sendeth down his wrath upon you as in the first provocation, yea, according to his word in the last provocation as well as the first, to the everlasting destruction of your souls; therefore, according to his word, unto the last death, as well as the first.

[brotherofJared]

On 6/22/2017 at 9:53 AM, Traveler said:

I apologize - I have never met anyone before now, (including apostles) that have not openly admitted that they are a grossly unfinished repentance work in progress.  I have excused myself thinking that all – most certainly myself, have fallen short and must rely on the mercy of G-d.  I honestly did not know it was possible in this life to over come the world and no longer have concerns about sin.

 

The Traveler

That certainly is possible.

[brotherofJared]

On 6/22/2017 at 10:04 AM, Rob Osborn said:

Thats why we have the millennium.

How does the millennium fix that?

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, brotherofJared said:

How does the millennium fix that?

The millennium will allow us to work towards the perfection required in order to be saved.

 

[brotherofJared]

6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

The millennium will allow us to work towards the perfection required in order to be saved.

 

How is that suppose to work? Let's first examine the dead, the the living at the beginning and the those will be born. How will any of these have time get to perfection?

[Rob Osborn]

56 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

How is that suppose to work? Let's first examine the dead, the the living at the beginning and the those will be born. How will any of these have time get to perfection?

A thousand years is a very long time.

[brotherofJared]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

A thousand years is a very long time.

Explain it to me like I was an Evangelical Christian so I can understand what u r taking about. No one is going to have a thousand years to become perfect or even to work on it. What about those who are already dead? How much time do they have to work on perfection?

[Rob Osborn]

19 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

Explain it to me like I was an Evangelical Christian so I can understand what u r taking about. No one is going to have a thousand years to become perfect or even to work on it. What about those who are already dead? How much time do they have to work on perfection?

Okay. Here in mortality the gospel of Jesus Christ on the earth consists of the saving power. Its a preparatory gospel that prepares us for, or enables us, to enter into the path that leads to perfection. By "perfection" I am speaking of it in the sense of becoming completely spotless from sin with no more desire to do evil. None of us achieve that in mortality, we just dont get there. Perhaps some of us come close but usually those changes are still in a transition phase at death. There is a lot to be worked out with everything such as overcoming covetness, selfishness, jealousy, etc. The Celestial kingdom requires perfection in these things. This is the main reason for the millennium so that Christ can perfect the kingdom. All those who want salvation and are eligable will live on the earth during the millennium where we will learn from Jesus Christ how to become perfect in all those things until we become perfect. Christ is the master teacher and under his rule and reign he will show his people how to overcome all things. It is for this very reason Christ will be on the earth for a thousand years.

[brotherofJared]

12 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

All those who want salvation and are eligable will live on the earth during the millennium where we will learn from Jesus Christ how to become perfect in all those things until we become perfect

Where do u get that idea?

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, brotherofJared said:

Where do u get that idea?

From the scriptures

[brotherofJared]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

From the scriptures

Where in the scriptures. This is news to me.

[Rob Osborn]

17 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

Where in the scriptures. This is news to me.

Start here-

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 76:106)

This is in reference to his millennial reign. Perfecting his work means to bring all into sanctification from all sin.