Utchdorf, Sometimes we have made mistakes

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, docjohn said:

no, I don't think the statement was cognitive dissonance; I experienced cognitive dissonance (contradictory beliefs) because my original beliefs about JS were so different; I didn't know what to do with all the new information about him (or BY); I only heard great things about him growing up. It's like buying a new vehicle, expecting all these great benefits and finding post-purchase experiences to be very disappointing. 

I'm glad you've grown so much    Indeed, we are all sinners and saints, and God is incredibly merciful. 

[Sunday21]

@docjohnHi there! Good to have you here!

Edited December 19, 2017 by Sunday21

[estradling75]

17 hours ago, docjohn said:

I like some of the changes in church culture - based on my readings and following LDS.org, it's much more Christ-centered; less about JS based on my experiences. I think the JS Papers and the Essays were much needed. They would have prevented the shock effect for me; learning about JS and polyandry from the church would have been seen in a more favorable light than learning about it through historians.

I am going to branch off on this thought because it touches on a pet peeve of mine...  My pet peeve is people complaining that the church did not teach them..

In any educational environment students are expected to "do the homework."  If all they do is warm the seat for the hour or so of class each week chances are they are going to fail.. and fail hard when the exam comes.  The Church is no different.  The Church has a standard homework assignment of "Prayerfully Pondering the Scriptures daily" And then the standard Sunday School, Priesthood, Relief Society lessons are all known in advance and the class is instructed to read and ponder the lesson material (scripture sections) and be prepared to discuss them in class (aka Homework).

For this year the Sunday School Gospel Doctrine Class has been covering section by section the Doctrine and Covenants. As part of a Four Year cycle that has been going on for a very long time.  Anyone that had "Done the Homework" will have read several places in the D&C where God calls Joseph Smith to repentance, and the Section where Celestial marriage are described and commanded (Which is where all the polys come from).  Therefore to anyone that has "Done the Homework" it should be very clear that Joseph Smith was not perfect and the Celestial marriages (with the polys) were practiced (even if the details of whom married whom is not explicitly laid out)... and they should have read it at least one every 4 years for a very long time running now.

Yet for some reason people who claim to be life long faithful members are surprised by this and cry out loud and long that "The Church needed to teach this to me"  And this causes me cognitive dissonance.  And I want to ask them "Why didn't they do the Homework?"

 

[Guest MormonGator]

34 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I am going to branch off on this thought because it touches on a pet peeve of mine...  My pet peeve is people complaining that the church did not teach them..

In any educational environment students are expected to "do the homework."  If all they do is warm the seat for the hour or so of class each week chances are they are going to fail.. and fail hard when the exam comes.  The Church is no different.  The Church has a standard homework assignment of "Prayerfully Pondering the Scriptures daily" And then the standard Sunday School, Priesthood, Relief Society lessons are all known in advance and the class is instructed to read and ponder the lesson material (scripture sections) and be prepared to discuss them in class (aka Homewo rk).

For this year the Sunday School Gospel Doctrine Class has been covering section by section the Doctrine and Covenants. As part of a Four Year cycle that has been going on for a very long time.  Anyone that had "Done the Homework" will have read several places in the D&C where God calls Joseph Smith to repentance, and the Section where Celestial marriage are described and commanded (Which is where all the polys come from).  Therefore to anyone that has "Done the Homework" it should be very clear that Joseph Smith was not perfect and the Celestial marriages (with the polys) were practiced (even if the details of whom married whom is not explicitly laid out)... and they should have read it at least one every 4 years for a very long time running now.

Yet for some reason people who claim to be life long faithful members are surprised by this and cry out loud and long that "The Church needed to teach this to me"  And this causes me cognitive dissonance.  And I want to ask them "Why didn't they do the Homework?"

 

I agree with you @estradling75 (I know, we're all shocked) but it doesn't matter what you and I think. I know of people who learn something negative about the church or Smith Jr and it really causes them issues with the faith.  Should they have "done their homework?" Of course they should have. But it doesn't matter-their faith is already "shaken" by this or that revelation. 

The church seems to understand this better than you or I as well. They've become so much more open in the past several years. I think it's because they also see the problem I'm describing. 

[estradling75]

14 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I agree with you @estradling75 (I know, we're all shocked) but it doesn't matter what you and I think. I know of people who learn something negative about the church or Smith Jr and it really causes them issues with the faith.  Should they have "done their homework?" Of course they should have. But it doesn't matter-their faith is already "shaken" by this or that revelation. 

The church seems to understand this better than you or I as well. They've become so much more open in the past several years. I think it's because they also see the problem I'm describing. 

Like I said... its a pet peeve. 

I get it taking a bit for people to put the pieces together because that is the work of a life time.  I am talking about those that claim that the church never gave them the pieces when all we have to do is open up the scriptures to find them.  Yet they will double down on the claim that the church is hiding or being deceptive even after you point that out.

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Like I said... its a pet peeve. 

I get it taking a bit for people to put the pieces together because that is the work of a life time.  I am talking about those that claim that the church never gave them the pieces when all we have to do is open up the scriptures to find them.  Yet they will double down on the claim that the church is hiding or being deceptive even after you point that out.

I understand @estradling75 and like I said, I generally agree with you. 

It's a tough life truth that the rest of the world doesn't care about our pet peeves, isn't it? 

[pwrfrk]

On 7/7/2017 at 8:56 AM, mordorbund said:

Just for my own benefit, what leaders do you associate with mistakes?

Doesn't matter?  What is it that was done to offend you?  Did someone say something that offends you?  Wah.  I know the power of words, but those words have only as much power as you allow them.  There are exceptions, of course.  However, I don't think there is a rule that says that you must be nice to your brethern.  Sometimes people say stuff and don't realize it offends others.  Or maybe they just don't care.

Did they steal from you?  Commit any actual crimes?  Report them and file a civil action for compensation, then.  But forgive them.

It is amazing how many people will let small issues keep them from church.  Refusing to go to church because "so & so" said something.  Who cares if they meant it.  Forgive them.  While the Lord speaks out against and vowed to punish those who push others away from him, you must forgive.  Leaders included.