Grunt Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Snigmorder said: It would certainly be appropriate to seek answers as an endowed temple patron while inside the temple. But I'm not sure asking the people in charge of the temple would profit much. If you're talking about a visitors center, It's perfectly fine to ask. That was just ignorance on my part. I wasn't aware there was a difference. Snigmorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Grunt said: That was just ignorance on my part. I wasn't aware there was a difference. I knew nothing about the church before I joined. Even now, I'm hardly an expert. Don't be too hard on yourself. Edited July 17, 2017 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Grunt said: That was just ignorance on my part. I wasn't aware there was a difference. And that is fine. The LDS church has a lot of lingo, organizations, and ways of life that are unlike other religions. We aren't drastically different in most aspects, but we do have our own culture. Im told it can be frustrating for new members or those investigating to understand it all, but just know we are all here to help and full acclimation may take a while Just come in, bring what you have, be prepared to be wrong sometimes (or in my case often x) ), and be ready to serve others. Everyone in The church receives a calling, whether that is Sunday school, helping with the youth, or a leader in one of the groups. It is a ton of fun! Jane_Doe and Grunt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 @Grunt! Hi there! Nice to have you here. I didn't know anything when I joined the church. I suggest prayer to have your questions answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Temples and chapels are different. I'm pretty sure you want to attend a chapel. Chapels are for Sunday worship, and you are welcome to attend. They have Sunday School classes for newbies. The missionaries will attend with you. Edited July 17, 2017 by bytebear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) If you want to talk with an older person, try @Vort or @pam. If you want a really old person, try @zil Edited July 17, 2017 by askandanswer Grunt and Sunday21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) I think most people here have already said other things I would have said. So, I'll address your questions directly. 16 hours ago, Grunt said: God seems to be a joke to most people these days. I never understood ridiculing another's faith, though, even if it doesn't agree with your own. Yes, a sad truth of today's world. God is not much a part of people's lives anymore. As for ridiculing... well, human beings tend to ridicule something we don't agree with. That's why we forgive one another --even when it hurts. 16 hours ago, Grunt said: I have prayed on this, though I've not even come close to finishing the Book of Mormon. Thus far, it rings true to me. So far so good. 16 hours ago, Grunt said: I just struggle with the manner in which Joseph Smith RECEIVED and translated the plates. This happened in modern times, so while I accept the explanation I was given by the missionaries as to why there isn't a better record of the plates and their translation, the stories I've read about how they were kept, hidden from people, translated through a stone in a hat, and the witnesses said they had a vision of the plates, not physically saw them. Why were they hidden? Because many would want to use them for monetary gain rather than the spiritual treasure they are. Translation? Some descriptions have been given by reputable sources -- all second or third hand. But the first hand account given by Joseph Smith himself was "the world was not meant to know the particulars regarding the method of translation." So, apparently, we don't really know exactly how the translation process occurred. 16 hours ago, Grunt said: Maybe I should accept the fact that thus far I accept he was a prophet, that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, and not get hung up about how it came to be? Well, given Joseph's statement on the translation process... that's what he was saying. A saying goes: Don't deny what you do know because of what you don't know. Anyone can always come up with something that there is no readily available answer to. But that's ok. We're not required to know everything. When we have struggles with some faith related items, we hold fast to that which is good and continue in faith, with hope that we will eventually find an answer or acceptance. Such is the nature of a faith driven life. You'll have struggles like this throughout your life no matter what faith you adhere to. Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Thank you. I've decided to continue reading the book of Mormon before I move on to other books, with the exception of essays or teachings on Scripture that help me better understand what I'm reading. I'm only on 1 Nephi 19, but until today I spent more time being sidetracked with reading Wikipedia and websites than what I should have been reading. Thank you for getting me back on track. I'm enjoying it thus far, and I'm glad I decided to focus here. You probably don't realize it, but you helped considerably. Oddly, I also received a text from the "online" missionaries and a call from my local ones. I will say, Nephi says "and it came to pass...." a lot. Must have been the vernacular of the day. zil, person0, my two cents and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 @Grunt https://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/and-it-came-to-pass/ https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/12/i-have-a-question?lang=eng The same phrase is repeated in the Old Testament many times. Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 54 minutes ago, Grunt said: Thank you. I've decided to continue reading the book of Mormon before I move on to other books, with the exception of essays or teachings on Scripture that help me better understand what I'm reading. I'm only on 1 Nephi 19, but until today I spent more time being sidetracked with reading Wikipedia and websites than what I should have been reading. Thank you for getting me back on track. I'm enjoying it thus far, and I'm glad I decided to focus here. You probably don't realize it, but you helped considerably. Oddly, I also received a text from the "online" missionaries and a call from my local ones. I will say, Nephi says "and it came to pass...." a lot. Must have been the vernacular of the day. Good choice. This student manual may help you: https://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual?lang=eng Snigmorder, Grunt and Sunday21 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 @Grunt i bought a copy of the 24 hour Book of Mormon from amazon. This is a summary of each chapter. I read the summary before I read the full version of the Book of Mormon. Huge, huge help! Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 @Grunt, I just thought of something else and I owe @Carborendum for sparking the thought. You said: Quote Maybe I should accept the fact that thus far I accept he was a prophet, that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, and not get hung up about how it came to be? Have you ever sat down to question and have someone prove that Moses was a real prophet? Or have you simply accepted that he was because of the biblical context and historical reference which is ascribed to him? Same goes for the apostles. Even beyond that, do you question the validity of the Holy Bible? Some do, but assuming you don't and your work friends don't, could you or they lay before me evidence of the translation and transcription of the Bible? Could you sufficiently establish is it unaltered, and preserved as it originally proceeded from the mouths of the prophets and apostles who wrote it? Are you comfortable claiming there is nothing missing and no possible way there is something extra inside it? Most Christians who answer these questions respond by saying something along the lines of trusting that God brought it forth by His hand and preserved the message His children would need through inspired individuals and despite the wicked. I could easily say the same about the Book of Mormon. Either way, it is the Spirit that will witness the truth. I don't expect you to actually answer those questions, just some rhetorical food for thought. People tend to require much more evidence from the LDS church than they require as evidence for their own faith, especially other Christian denominations. Sunday21 and Grunt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 22 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: @Grunt i bought a copy of the 24 hour Book of Mormon from amazon. This is a summary of each chapter. I read the summary before I read the full version of the Book of Mormon. Huge, huge help! I've been cheating a little. I have a long commute and I've been listening to the Book of Mormon on podcast as well. Sunday21 and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Grunt said: I've been cheating a little. I have a long commute and I've been listening to the Book of Mormon on podcast as well. Excellent idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Content Edited July 18, 2017 by Snigmorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Content Edited July 18, 2017 by Snigmorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 7/16/2017 at 4:01 PM, Grunt said: and the witnesses said they had a vision of the plates, not physically saw them. Here's a quote from David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses. David Whitmer: "It was in June 1829, the very last part of the month, and the eight witnesses, I think, the next day. Joseph showed them the plates himself. We (the Three Witnesses) not only saw the plates of the book of Mormon, but the Brass Plates, the plates containing the record of the wickedness of the people of the world, and many other plates. The fact is, it was just as though Joseph, Oliver and I were sitting right here on a log, when we were overshadowed by a light. It was not like the light of the sun, nor like that of a fire, but more glorious and beautiful. It extended away round us, I cannot tell how far, but in the midst of this light, immediately before us, about as far off as he sits (pointing to John C. Whitmer who was sitting 2 or 3 feet from him) there appeared, as it were, a table, with many records on it, besides the plates of the Book of Mormon; also the sword of Laban, the Directors (i.e. the ball which Lehi had) and the Interpreters. I saw them just as plain as I see this bed (striking his hand upon the bed beside him), and I heard the voice of the Lord as distinctly as I ever heard anything in my life declaring that they (the plates) were translated by the gift and power of God." askandanswer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Um, I have no idea why it did that, but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 14 hours ago, Grunt said: I've been cheating a little. I have a long commute and I've been listening to the Book of Mormon on podcast as well. That's not cheating. At least, that is what I do -- depending on what you define as "podcast". I downloaded the BoM audio from the Church website. I put it on my phone. Since my car radio does not have a bluetooth or usb, I had to get a bluetooth adapter. Now I am ripping through the Book of Mormon at alarming rates (I actually read quite slowly). NOTE TO ALL: If you're going to go this route, I'd recommend the woman's voice rather than the man's voice. The higher tones come through the white noise of driving much better than the lower tones of a male voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 On 7/16/2017 at 3:19 PM, Grunt said: ... My questions are: Does anyone struggle with aspects of LDS? How do you reconcile that? What is the best way to get more information from people who may be older and/or more informed? Am I just at a point where I should end my quest for information due to the fact that I struggle with the cornerstone of this religion, so it will never fit for me even if everything else rings true? Here's my little contribution. Yes, I struggle from time to time with aspects of LDS (although I can't be sure at the moment what we're specifically talking about except of course for what you mentioned about Joseph Smith). I reconcile my struggles through efforts that have to do with faith, research, and humility. As a fellow "searcher" (?) I plan never to say never. These are extremely brief responses and I'm happy to elaborate on them with anybody who is interested to discuss them in more depth. I certainly wish you all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalenfehl Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hello, Grunt. I'm late to the party. I can see that the Holy Spirit is working in your life. The truth will set you free. Remember that in ancient times, it was not the scribes or the lawyers (Pharisees) and all their learning that saved the Jews. It was the truth and that was found in the scriptures. When a certain radical young man named Jesus came along with powerful teachings, those teachings seemed to challenge the traditions of the people and the church. Or rather, it was this young radical named Jesus Christ that saved and set free those who discerned the truths He taught and followed Him. There is always a difference between the truth and doctrine found in the scriptures and the traditions found in any church. It is up to you as a disciple of Jesus Christ (humble seeker) to discern truth from tradition. You will find the same truths and traditions practiced by the peoples in the Book of Mormon, but the patterns are the same. Never stop praying. It has taken me years and even decades to unravel much of it. But it doesn't take near that long to discern truth by the Holy Ghost. The journey is in reconciling what is written in scripture with the traditions of the churches you investigate. My witness to you is that the Book of Mormon is true. The more you read it, the more the answer will become clear what you should do. Hearing the answer(s) from me or anyone else may be helpful, but knowing the answer as it is given to you by the Holy Ghost will solidify your resolve and make your decisions clear. Quote 2 Nephi 31: 3 For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding. 4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world. 5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! 6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? 7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments. 8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove. 9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the examplebefore them. 10 And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we followJesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father? 11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son. 12 And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, followme, and do the things which ye have seen me do. 13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel. 14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me. 15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. 16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved. 17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. 18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive. 19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. 20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life. 21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrineof Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. Quote Moroni 10: 1 Now I, Moroni, write somewhat as seemeth me good; and I write unto my brethren, the Lamanites; and I would that they should know that more than four hundred and twenty years have passed away since the sign was given of the coming of Christ. 2 And I seal up these records, after I have spoken a few words by way of exhortation unto you. 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may knowthe truth of all things. 6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is. 7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever. askandanswer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom76 Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Hey Grunt, I'm an investigator just like you! I've questioned just about everything! Keep researching fairmormon is a great place to go with questions. One of the best videos I have seen that actually answers the hard questions in a way that no one can argue with is on youtube (even the mainstream christian admits at the end that he can't disagree with any of Pauls points of view). It's an interview of a LDS man Paul Gregersen, I know it will help your testimony if you watch it, he is so well educated, an absolute credit to the LDS church. Here's the link for part one (I think there are 12 or 13 in all - I've watched it so many times - its truly amazing) Anyway I hope it helps you. Blossom Jane_Doe and Grunt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted October 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Thank you for this! I watched part one and I'll go look for the others later. Blossom76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom76 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Grunt said: Thank you for this! I watched part one and I'll go look for the others later. You're so welcome, I think its brilliant, the other parts are all posted by the same channel, if you just search "mormon questioned on tv" you should be able to see them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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