Attitudes and behaviours of the lds

[Sunday21]

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner? Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home? To smoke? To watch an r-rated movie? To watch a horror movie? To make fun of your religion? To use the Lord's name in vain? When I was an athesist my attitudes towards these things were quite different but now I want to keep my home safe. 

i have been thinking about my attitudes towards these things. I had a friend who used to stay over at my home and he like to watch horror movies. I hated it. I desperately tried to get him to watch something else! I did not want to encourage Satan In my home.

i have also been thinking about our attitudes and behaviours. Our attitudes and behaviours change over time and reflect geographical differences. I recall an article in the Ensign about different rules for different missions. In some missions in South America,, members with female teenagers stopped having missionaries sleepover. Why? It gave the impression to the neighbors that the teenage girl and a missionary had a quasi marriage. So different places, different customs.

i spoke to an exRelief Society president and she told me how hard it was for her to marry at a time when the church did not encourage marriage across color lines. This seems a silly policy now...but maybe it was a sensible policy at that time? And possibly, it was a policy that was meant to be interpreted with the help of the Holy Ghost? Anyway, I think our attitudes do change over time and differ by region and this is a good thing. In my area, many older lds people would have a hard time being civil to a gay colleague. Or say that this is the case? I wonder if they would actually be rude to someone if they interacted with them directly? I recall reasearch on black/white school desegregation decades ago in which they found that the white parents of children in desegregated schools, became more accepting.

Anyway, as I have joined lds culture and left athesist culture, i find the behaviours and attitudes of my new homies endlessly fascinating. We have these really cool customs! If you do something nice for someone, they give you a handwritten note of thanks. Oh, I love this! The cuteness! On the other hand, everyone wants to sit at the end of the aisle in church. They ask people to save this spot! Fights breakout. If you sit in a special spot, next week, there may be a politely worded note explaining why this is a special spot, eg don't sit there! What else? If you fall asleep in church during someone's talk, you need to say sorry...but, you know Canada. 

If you get seriously ill and don't tell anyone, little detectives in the ward will start trying to figure out what is wrong. Hmmm, she is losing weight? All kindly meant, which I adore. What I love is the extent to which, I find these people so similar to myself in surprising and embarrassing ways. It is a bit like going to a family reunion and finding that you all spill food on your shirts on the left hand side and wipe your noses on your sleeve!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner?

Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home?

To smoke?

To watch an r-rated movie?

To watch a horror movie?

To make fun of your religion?

To use the Lord's name in vain?

I say no to all these.  It is my home.  It is a sacred place.  If they want to do that in their home, that's fine.  If they do some of these things in public, I have no authority to tell them anything about it.  But in my home, NO.  These things do not happen in my home.

EDIT:  Ok, I do have to admit that I allow some rated-R movies into my home.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Guest

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner? Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home? To smoke? To watch an r-rated movie? To watch a horror movie? To make fun of your religion? To use the Lord's name in vain?

No way. Do I look like @MormonGator?

[anatess2]

This is how I decide whether something can come to my home or not:  Does it bring me and others closer to or farther from Christ?

Everything is not black and white.  Everything is either inching closer to Christ or inching farther from Christ.  I'm not going to claim that my house is a perfect repose for the Spirit.

Edited July 18, 2017 by anatess2

[The Folk Prophet]

12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This is how I decide whether something can come to my home or not:  Does it bring me and others closer to or farther from Christ?

Everything is not black and white.  Everything is either inching closer to Christ or inching farther from Christ.  I'm not going to claim that my house is a perfect repose for the Spirit.

When anatess is right, she's right!

[Jojo Bags]

44 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Everything is not black and white.  Everything is either inching closer to Christ or inching farther from Christ.

This is pretty black and white to me.  We are told that God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  That, too, is pretty black and white.

[anatess2]

33 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

This is pretty black and white to me.  We are told that God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  That, too, is pretty black and white.

But we are not God.

Christ broke bread with a corrupt politician.  Does that mean that Christ looked upon the corrupt politician's sin with a degree of allowance?  Or isn't it that He went against the practice of not associating with sinners to bring such sinner closer to Him?  There is a huge difference between dining with a corrupt politician and being a corrupt politician.

Edited July 18, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

When anatess is right, she's right!

[Guest MormonGator]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner? Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home? To smoke? To watch an r-rated movie? To watch a horror movie? To make fun of your religion? To use the Lord's name in vain? When I was an athesist my attitudes towards these things were quite different but now I want to keep my home safe. 

i have been thinking about my attitudes towards these things. I had a friend who used to stay over at my home and he like to watch horror movies. I hated it. I desperately tried to get him to watch something else! I did not want to encourage Satan In my home.

I understand that @Sunday21 and it's your house with your rules. So you are certainly free to forbid anything you'd like. However, you might be fighting a losing battle. I watch horror movies on my phone at night sometimes. What are you going to do? Sneak into the bedroom and look over my shoulder? That's a little creepy. I also have a friend who likes to have a shot of Jack Daniels at night before he goes to sleep. You'd never know because he doesn't get drunk and stagger around the house. He pours a shot of it, then goes to sleep. What are you going to do? Search his suitcase? Of course you are free to do that. 

The "making fun of religion" thing is sort of gray too. What you might find to be an offensive comment about your religion another person of the same religion might just laugh it off. I tease my Catholic friends with lighthearted Catholic jokes (Oh, only three kids? I thought Catholics had to have over 10!). And we all laugh. It's who we are. So there is a line you don't cross but joking around is fine. Again for the 8th time, it's your house, so if you don't want it done, your choice.  I don't expect perfection from my friends anymore than they expect perfection from me.

I think you are right about the culture-cultures and behaviors change with time. 
 

Edited July 18, 2017 by MormonGator

[Vort]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

When anatess is right, she's right!

Rather the opposite of husbands, who are wrong even (or especially) when they're right.

[Guest]

I have been known to watch horror movies.  Some of my favorites include Night of the Hunter (1955), and of course, Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds (1963).

I also used to like Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho when it was rated PG, but they gave it an honorary "R" rating and I can't tell if it is now semi-forbidden or not.

Edited July 18, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

i spoke to an exRelief Society president and she told me how hard it was for her to marry at a time when the church did not encourage marriage across color lines. This seems a silly policy now...but maybe it was a sensible policy at that time?

A couple of clarifications:

1. There was never a Church policy forbidding or even formally discouraging interracial marriage. Before 1978, there was an understandable prejudice against a non-black Latter-day Saint marrying a person of sub-Saharan African descent, since that meant that Priesthood and temple blessings would be denied to their progeny; but even that was due to Priesthood and temple issues, and not race per se.
2. While there was never a formal policy discouraging interracial marriage, the counsel to be very careful about marrying across racial lines was -- and is still -- provided. Such counsel, to marry someone from a sufficiently similar social background to yourself so that you avoid all sorts of impediments in your marriage, is common sense wisdom. Marrying across racial lines can raise all sorts of this type of cultural problem. I think it was wise counsel, and still is. I would provide the same counsel to my children if they were considering such an intercultural marriage. I would not explicitly discourage it, but I would encourage them to think long and hard before making such a covenant. Marriage is much too important to enter into lightly or to try to prove how unprejudiced you are.

[anatess2]

52 minutes ago, Vort said:

Rather the opposite of husbands, who are wrong even (or especially) when they're right.

I thought right husbands are like the sasquatch...

 

[anatess2]

46 minutes ago, Vort said:

 Marrying across racial lines can raise all sorts of this type of cultural problem. I think it was wise counsel, and still is. I would provide the same counsel to my children if they were considering such an intercultural marriage. I would not explicitly discourage it, but I would encourage them to think long and hard before making such a covenant. Marriage is much too important to enter into lightly or to try to prove how unprejudiced you are.

I would do the exact same thing.  And I'm Filipino who married a white American.

So, you might wonder - your kids are half Filipino, half American... yes they are.  They are very comfortable in both American and Filipino cultures.  I'd want them to think very long and hard before marrying a Syrian.  Or women from Seattle...

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by anatess2

[Fether]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

But we are not God.

Christ broke bread with a corrupt politician.  Does that mean that Christ looked upon the corrupt politician's sin with a degree of allowance?  Or isn't it that He went against the practice of not associating with sinners to bring such sinner closer to Him?  There is a huge difference between dining with a corrupt politician and being a corrupt politician.

I agree, but I think the problem is when a friend consistently comes over on casual visits and let's loose his/her mouth, watches explicit movies, gossips, etc. 

Inviting friends like this over for fellowship, with missionaries maybe, on special occasions is great! Helps in the spreading of the gospel. But we we permit those evils in our home, our home no longer becomes as sacred as it should be.

after all "Only the home can compare with the temple in sacredness.” - Bible Dictionary "temple"

 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Rather the opposite of husbands, who are wrong even (or especially) when they're right.

And conservatives. Apparently.

[mirkwood]

4 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner? Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home? To smoke? To watch an r-rated movie? To watch a horror movie? To make fun of your religion? To use the Lord's name in vain?

1. unmarried partnership?  IDK what I would do.  I hope to never be in that boat.

2.  I don't allow alcohol in my home.  I've not made an issue with my nephew having a drink at a restaraunt, but he knows not in the home and not getting drunk.  I do allow the coffee drinkers to consume, but I won't provide it for them.

3.  Smokers can go outside.

4.  I judge movies by the content not the rating.

5.  I love horror movies. 

6.  Mock my religion?  Yea, I've gone the round with some of my family...

7.  Swearing?  I have no control over someone else's mouth...sometimes I don't do so well with my own.

Edited July 18, 2017 by mirkwood

[Guest MormonGator]

I think something important to remember is how friendships work. Odds are, if someone curses a lot, watches movies you don't agree with and smokes-you won't be friends with them in the first place and inviting them into your home won't be an issue, because neither party would want to hang out together anyway. You aren't doing them a grave inconvenience by saying they can't go over to your house. In fact, it's like being turned down for a date by a girl you didn't want to go out with anyway.  I don't want to hang out with someone who constantly tells me to watch my language, lectures me about my taste in art/media, and they are not going to want to hang out with me either. Your home has every right to be your sanctuary, but others don't view as theirs. 

So it's sort of (key words, sort of) a useless debate/discussion/argument

Edited July 19, 2017 by MormonGator

[Mike]

5 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Would you allow your unmarried adult child to share a room in your house with their unmarried partner? Would you allow an adult child to consume alcohol in your home? To smoke? To watch an r-rated movie? To watch a horror movie? To make fun of your religion? To use the Lord's name in vain? When I was an athesist my attitudes towards these things were quite different but now I want to keep my home safe. 

i have been thinking about my attitudes towards these things. I had a friend who used to stay over at my home and he like to watch horror movies. I hated it. I desperately tried to get him to watch something else! I did not want to encourage Satan In my home.

i have also been thinking about our attitudes and behaviours. Our attitudes and behaviours change over time and reflect geographical differences. I recall an article in the Ensign about different rules for different missions. In some missions in South America,, members with female teenagers stopped having missionaries sleepover. Why? It gave the impression to the neighbors that the teenage girl and a missionary had a quasi marriage. So different places, different customs.

i spoke to an exRelief Society president and she told me how hard it was for her to marry at a time when the church did not encourage marriage across color lines. This seems a silly policy now...but maybe it was a sensible policy at that time? And possibly, it was a policy that was meant to be interpreted with the help of the Holy Ghost? Anyway, I think our attitudes do change over time and differ by region and this is a good thing. In my area, many older lds people would have a hard time being civil to a gay colleague. Or say that this is the case? I wonder if they would actually be rude to someone if they interacted with them directly? I recall reasearch on black/white school desegregation decades ago in which they found that the white parents of children in desegregated schools, became more accepting.

Anyway, as I have joined lds culture and left athesist culture, i find the behaviours and attitudes of my new homies endlessly fascinating. We have these really cool customs! If you do something nice for someone, they give you a handwritten note of thanks. Oh, I love this! The cuteness! On the other hand, everyone wants to sit at the end of the aisle in church. They ask people to save this spot! Fights breakout. If you sit in a special spot, next week, there may be a politely worded note explaining why this is a special spot, eg don't sit there! What else? If you fall asleep in church during someone's talk, you need to say sorry...but, you know Canada. 

If you get seriously ill and don't tell anyone, little detectives in the ward will start trying to figure out what is wrong. Hmmm, she is losing weight? All kindly meant, which I adore. What I love is the extent to which, I find these people so similar to myself in surprising and embarrassing ways. It is a bit like going to a family reunion and finding that you all spill food on your shirts on the left hand side and wipe your noses on your sleeve!

Many of the attitudes you described are not unique of course to LDS culture--at least in my experience. I have been at the receiving end from time to time. I have friends and relatives with different attitudes and traditions that had the potential for conflict, and I'm fortunate in that I feel like we've always treated each other with what I perceive to be common decency and mutual respect. 

(I have atheist friends, and I'm not sure I can picture what you might be alluding to when you mention "atheist culture" in terms of your topic.) ??

Edited July 18, 2017 by Mike

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I agree, but I think the problem is when a friend consistently comes over on casual visits and let's loose his/her mouth, watches explicit movies, gossips, etc.

So, ask the question - is his presence bringing both of you closer or farther from Christ?  If the answer is closer to Christ, then he stays.  If the answer is farther from Christ then he goes.  It's really as simple as that.  Because - what does it matter if he gossips if such gossiping doesn't bring you farther from Christ but his presence in your house brings HIM closer to Christ?  Today he gossips, tomorrow he realizes it's a bad thing because of your influence, so he stops.  Win for Christ.

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Inviting friends like this over for fellowship, with missionaries maybe, on special occasions is great! Helps in the spreading of the gospel. But we we permit those evils in our home, our home no longer becomes as sacred as it should be.

after all "Only the home can compare with the temple in sacredness.” - Bible Dictionary "temple"

Depends.  Permitting somebody who is very far from perfection into my home that he may hear and be influenced by the gospel is completely different from permitting somebody who is far from perfection into my home so he can drive us farther from perfection too.

Like I said, I don't claim that my house is the perfect repose for the Spirit.  Rather, my house is more like a hospital.  With people working together to fight diseases.  If my home could compare with the temple in sacredness, I wouldn't be allowed to live in it.

Edited July 18, 2017 by anatess2

[Sunday21]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is how I decide whether something can come to my home or not:  Does it bring me and others closer to or farther from Christ?

Everything is not black and white.  Everything is either inching closer to Christ or inching farther from Christ.  I'm not going to claim that my house is a perfect repose for the Spirit.

Great rule!

[Sunday21]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I understand that @Sunday21 and it's your house with your rules. So you are certainly free to forbid anything you'd like. However, you might be fighting a losing battle. I watch horror movies on my phone at night sometimes. What are you going to do? Sneak into the bedroom and look over my shoulder? That's a little creepy. I also have a friend who likes to have a shot of Jack Daniels at night before he goes to sleep. You'd never know because he doesn't get drunk and stagger around the house. He pours a shot of it, then goes to sleep. What are you going to do? Search his suitcase? Of course you are free to do that. 

The "making fun of religion" thing is sort of gray too. What you might find to be an offensive comment about your religion another person of the same religion might just laugh it off. I tease my Catholic friends with lighthearted Catholic jokes (Oh, only three kids? I thought Catholics had to have over 10!). And we all laugh. It's who we are. So there is a line you don't cross but joking around is fine. Again for the 8th time, it's your house, so if you don't want it done, your choice.  I don't expect perfection from my friends anymore than they expect perfection from me.

I think you are right about the culture-cultures and behaviors change with time. 
 

Well actually....my family are atheists so I buy them alcohol and I would happily let someone smoke on the porch. I would let them watch something R rated. I am not sure my brother would watch any other kind!... I was just thinking of attitudes in general. Probably because I study attitudes and so I am interested in how they change. But yes, I see your point. Still my attitudes have changed since becoming lds. I get that people do not want their home contaminated. So big change for me!

[Sunday21]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I would do the exact same thing.  And I'm Filipino who married a white American.

So, you might wonder - your kids are half Filipino, half American... yes they are.  They are very comfortable in both American and Filipino cultures.  I'd want them to think very long and hard before marrying a Syrian.  Or women from Seattle...

 

Ok. Who is from Seattle...

@zil Seriously don't you think that's just ...you know, Zil? Who is geographically classifiable. Do you seriously think we can blame the space needle for Zil? Be fair!

[zil]

1 minute ago, Sunday21 said:

Ok. Who is from Seattle...

@zil Seriously don't you think that's just ...you know, Zil? Who is geographically classifiable. Do you seriously think we can blame the space needle for Zil? Be fair!

I'm confused.  Never even been to Seattle.  Or Washington state.  (Alternately, if you're adding me to the list of people to think long and hard about before marrying them, no worries - there's no chance of me getting married again.)

[Sunday21]

@Mike Athesist culture, i am going to get flak for this!, tends to include a distrust of organized religion. A belief that those at the top of organized religion are corrupt, sexist, or stupid. Not all of the above but some of the above.