• Announcements

    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. The Mormon Hub Services are provided "AS-IS" and as available and Mormon Hub expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Mormon Hub cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the Mormon Hub Services. 12. Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MORMON HUB BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MORMON HUB HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MORMON HUB'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MORMON HUB FOR THE MORMON HUB SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP. 13. U.S. Export Controls. Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.
    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
SpiritDragon

Assurances today's LDS church is the restored gospel

Recommended Posts

The linear logic seems to follow that if the Book of Mormon is true than Joseph Smith is a true prophet and the church is true. What assurances do we have specifically from Joseph Smith's time that the restored church would not be led away. What evidence do we have to support confidence in the notion that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church restored through Joseph Smith and not a wild branch.

When confronted with this concept as far as dealing with fundamentalist groups and so on who also claim the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and prophet status of Joseph I typically find myself thinking of Joseph talking about how the church will fill North America and fill the world. To my knowledge only one LDS off-shoot does that and it is the mainstream Mormon church.

What other evidence can you think of to support the position that the church has not fallen away?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few contemporaries of Joseph said the following:

Quote

Orson Hyde, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, reported: “Joseph the Prophet … said, ‘Brethren, remember that the majority of this people will never go astray; and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the celestial kingdom.’”16

William G. Nelson reported: “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”17

Ezra T. Clark remembered: “I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.”18

See (https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-27?lang=eng)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

The linear logic seems to follow that if the Book of Mormon is true than Joseph Smith is a true prophet and the church is true. What assurances do we have specifically from Joseph Smith's time that the restored church would not be led away. What evidence do we have to support confidence in the notion that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church restored through Joseph Smith and not a wild branch.

When confronted with this concept as far as dealing with fundamentalist groups and so on who also claim the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and prophet status of Joseph I typically find myself thinking of Joseph talking about how the church will fill North America and fill the world. To my knowledge only one LDS off-shoot does that and it is the mainstream Mormon church.

What other evidence can you think of to support the position that the church has not fallen away?

The only evidence that matters is that given by the Holy Ghost.

6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Growth, by itself, proves nothing.  

Or course what @SpiritDragon is talking about is not growth by itself, but rather growth after a prophesy of growth. That still doesn't "prove" anything. But it is logical to conclude that if Joseph Smith said the church would fill North America then the only true branch of Joseph Smith's legacy is the one who fills North America. Of course this is still problematic because one who belonged to one of the smaller branch-off groups could easily believe that it was simply a prophecy that wasn't yet filled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Growth, by itself, proves nothing. On the other hand, any church that bucks cultural trends (swims against the stream, so to speak) and still grows, gets my attention. 

 

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Or course what @SpiritDragon is talking about is not growth by itself, but rather growth after a prophesy of growth. That still doesn't "prove" anything. But it is logical to conclude that if Joseph Smith said the church would fill North America then the only true branch of Joseph Smith's legacy is the one who fills North America. Of course this is still problematic because one who belonged to one of the smaller branch-off groups could easily believe that it was simply a prophecy that wasn't yet filled.

Indeed, growth alone proves nothing other than there is a need being met somehow. TFP is correct, the logic follows in growth following a prophesy of growth and is problematic as a stand alone because indeed other groups could one day also grow, perhaps even exceed the mainstream church's growth - although it seems unlikely it is a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

The only evidence that matters is that given by the Holy Ghost.

While I can't disagree with this, it is useful to have other background information. A witness from the Holy Ghost regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is likely the bedrock of many a testimony. A further witness that the current church leadership is directing the kingdom with the correct authority is possibly a more difficult task. My concern is that any number of errors can be made in the name of following the Holy Ghost without sound teachings to guide those decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

While I can't disagree with this, it is useful to have other background information. A witness from the Holy Ghost regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is likely the bedrock of many a testimony. A further witness that the current church leadership is directing the kingdom with the correct authority is possibly a more difficult task. My concern is that any number of errors can be made in the name of following the Holy Ghost without sound teachings to guide those decisions.

I don't follow. If the Holy Ghost as a witness is unreliable in one matter then it is in the other. If it is reliable as a witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon then it is reliable as a witness of the authority held by Thomas S. Monson. Rather, conversely, if any number of errors can be made in the name of following the Holy Ghost then why cannot the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon be one of those errors?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't follow. If the Holy Ghost as a witness is unreliable in one matter then it is in the other. If it is reliable as a witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon then it is reliable as a witness of the authority held by Thomas S. Monson. Rather, conversely, if any number of errors can be made in the name of following the Holy Ghost then why cannot the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon be one of those errors?

It can be one of those errors. The Book of Mormon offers a definitive look at some critical fruit of the prophet Joseph Smith that lends to a strengthening of testimony concerning knowing he is a prophet by his fruits. The Book of Mormon contains a promise that the truthful seeker who sincerely prays will receive an affirmative answer as to its truthfulness. The thing is that each progression of faith needs to fit within the context of revealed truth. For instance if I believe the Bible is true and am praying about the Book of Mormon, it is helpful to know that the bible and Book of Mormon work together and are not contradictory to each other. Perhaps you are very fortunate that witnesses from the Holy Ghost are always clear. I've talked to many people where this is not the case. I'm not saying that the Holy Ghost isn't reliable, simply that it won't teach anything contrary to revealed truth. This is also not to say that the current church leadership is against any revealed truth that I'm aware of. I'm just curious what other evidences we have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have posted this little story several times before on this subject and this forum – but since the question keeps being asked – I will tell it again.

A few years back I was doing work with the Federal Reserve Bank in Denver.  I like to learn as much as I can about things interesting to me and the Federal Reserve Bank is not an exception.  Following one of our project meetings I was talking with one of the Banks directors of the facility we were installing a new system.  My question was – is there a sure fire, never fail way to determine real money from counterfeit?  The manager responded with a very affirmative “Yes!”  But then he added that it is not what you think.

In a post on another thread I suggested that there is not much difference between seeking a sign and seeking a proof.   The answer to determine a counterfeit from a genuine plays into this very notion.  The manager pointed out that it is impossible to look at currency (money) and determine if it is genuine or a counterfeit.  In essence the manager said that whatever you think you are looking for is precisely what the expert will counterfeit.   A careful reading of scriptures would indicate that Satan enlisted to deceive Jesus was by trying to get Jesus to “prove” or show that he is the “Son of G-d”.   

I would make another note here that I am personally excited to see that @The Folk Prophetsuggested that instead of trying to prove that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is G-d’s restored “Kingdom” that we should rather ask G-d if it is his restored Kingdom and expect divine revelation through the Holy Ghost to settle the matter for us.

So how did the Federal Reserve directory say we can identify counterfeits?  He had me take out a dollar bill and show it to him.  He pointed out that the money was a “Federal Reserve Note”  and the title of “The United States of America.  Just below than on the left side t also says that the note is legal tender.  Then at the bottom of the note on the right side it has the signature for the Secretary of the Treasure.   It is that signature that validates the claim the money is valid.  So, to know if the money is genuine or counterfeit – the one and only way is to present the bill to the Secretary of the Treasure and ask if it is valid.  I was told it does not matter what other opinions there are or what others think is proven or not proven.  By LAW whatever the Secretary of the Treasure says is genuine or valid – that is genuine USA money.  Also, regardless what any expert says or regardless of what is written or proven by whatever means that are claimed to be proof – is all invalid and not true if the Secretary of the Treasure says the money is not valid.

It is also my opinion that contrary to all other claims concerning the truth of religion – the simple fact of life is that it is not to obligation of any man to prove or demonstrate what is of G-d or even what the scriptures say or do not say.  It is not the obligation of any messenger to validate, demonstrate or prove that G-d has sent them or speaks through them.  It is the obligation of each individual to ask, seek, knock and search out the truth by asking G-d what is true, genuine and not a counterfeit.  Those that seek validation from the person preaching any doctrine or point of doctrine are setting themselves up for being deceived.   Rather we are all obligated to seek out the source and ask G-d.  It has been my experience that at times the answer has been to study scripture, at other times to listen to the voice of prophets, at other times to listen to a wide variety of messengers and at times to think and ponder on my own – but always to validate and complete my understanding through the “Gift of the Holy Ghost”.

It does not matter who or what man or men we agree with or disagree with or what scripture we can quote or think we understand – what matters is that we seek truth from the source.

 

The Traveler

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I would make another note here that I am personally excited to see that @The Folk Prophet suggested that instead of trying to prove that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is G-d’s restored “Kingdom” that we should rather ask G-d if it is his restored Kingdom and expect divine revelation through the Holy Ghost to settle the matter for us.

Excited?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I don't see how there can be any current proof of anything, except through Christ and prayer.

Exactly. You can't objectively "prove" it, that's why it's called faith. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Grunt said:

I don't see how there can be any current proof of anything, except through Christ and prayer.

 

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Exactly. You can't objectively "prove" it, that's why it's called faith. 

Just to be clear, I'm not asking anyone to prove anything. I'm just seeking the combined knowledge of forum participants in sharing evidence that the church as restored by Joseph Smith is the same church we have today in the mainstream LDS church. Clearly, it all backs up to faith in particular sources. For instance, the Isaiah 29 prophesy of the Professor Anton exchange with Joseph Smith doesn't prove that Joseph is a prophet, but it lends a lot of credibility to a story when it appears to have been foretold and involving players that wouldn't likely just be re-enacting the event to make it appear to match prophecy. 

I understand the importance of faith but would like help with quotes to the effect of how the priesthood authority has continued on in an unbroken chain since Joseph Smith, or teachings concerning the gospel being promised not to be again removed from the earth in the final dispensation of the fullness of times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

 

Just to be clear, I'm not asking anyone to prove anything. I'm just seeking the combined knowledge of forum participants in sharing evidence that the church as restored by Joseph Smith is the same church we have today in the mainstream LDS church. Clearly, it all backs up to faith in particular sources. For instance, the Isaiah 29 prophesy of the Professor Anton exchange with Joseph Smith doesn't prove that Joseph is a prophet, but it lends a lot of credibility to a story when it appears to have been foretold and involving players that wouldn't likely just be re-enacting the event to make it appear to match prophecy. 

I understand the importance of faith but would like help with quotes to the effect of how the priesthood authority has continued on in an unbroken chain since Joseph Smith, or teachings concerning the gospel being promised not to be again removed from the earth in the final dispensation of the fullness of times.

 

Actually the “Church” established by Joseph Smith Jr. is not exactly the same as the Ancient Church.   This is, in part, why the church includes the title of Latter-day Saints as part of it name – to distinguish it from the ancient church.  In addition, we live in the time prophesied in scripture that is known as the time of “Restoration of all things”. 

It is my personal observation that times are changing and we are entering a era where many in society are thinking new ideas are a threat.  It does seem to me that when I was growing up – more people were interested in learning about new things – especially in the LDS church.  It is seeming to me that more and more people are getting upset over new ideas.  Sure, when I was young there were anti-Mormons – but it seems to me that members are turning from seeking – if something is not part of their bubble of what they think – they will not consider it.

If someone is looking for G-d and his kingdom they will find more and more – each day, line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept but as soon as they think they have found it – I belief they will become deceived thinking they know enough and their journey of truth has ended.  Anyone with a different idea becomes their enemy.  And so instead of talking about what they believe they find reason to fault what others believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                    

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Let me be more clear in my questioning.

 

Why?

 

It means that I have misunderstood you in some previous discussions – and I can very easily fix that.  :)

                                                                                                                                                                                    

The Traveler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't prove it, you say?

I have one thing to say to you:  "Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon."  

To me, this is pretty strong evidence that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it purports to be.  

I know I would feel plenty nervous about leaving the Church, based on this alone (along with hebraisms in the Book of Mormon, wordprint studies, first century practices mysteriously and spontaneously popping up in the modern Church, details of Lehi's journey which correspond with Arabian geography, evidences of the ancient origins of the Pearl of Great Price, etc.)  How do you explain all of that if Joseph Smith was a fraud?  You cannot.

I know the importance of having a spiritual confirmation first, but I think there is plenty of non-spiritual proof out there that the Church is of divine origin (and by extension that God exists), if you are looking for it.

As far as I can tell, no other religion in the world has set forth a sacred book, such as the Book of Mormon, and has had that book proven so thoroughly through academic means.  

Edited by DoctorLemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

You can't prove it, you say?

I have one thing to say to you:  "Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon."  

To me, this is pretty strong evidence that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it purports to be.  ...

Nope, not proof.  Anti-Mormons have a response to that too.  Not that I agree with them.  But it is only good for us, not them.

Edited by Carborendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EDIT:  OK I see what this thread is saying, assurances LDS is true and not FLDS or Community of Christ or Bickertonite or whoever.

Well, Jesus did say you could tell a false prophet by his fruits!

What are the fruits of these others?  There are either none or the fruits are bad (e.g. FLDS).  Meanwhile, the normal Church produces nothing but very, very good fruits through perfecting the saints, proclaiming the gospel, and redeeming the dead.

I think it is pretty obvious the Church is the correct continuation of the religion restored by Joseph Smith.  To assert otherwise, you have to explain two things: 1) prove that President Monson is a false prophet, even though the Church produces nothing but good fruit regularly (e.g. proclaiming the gospel, perfecting the saints, saving the dead, charity work, etc.) and Jesus said in Matthew chapter 7 that you would recognize a false prophet or a true prophet by their fruits,and 2) that Warren Jeffs is a true prophet, even though his works have been nothing but evil (breaking up families, abusing children, breaking the law, etc.)  

I think everyone knows that only one Church claiming Joseph Smith as restorer stands out in its works, its ability to do good, and its ability to produce righteous, good people, and that is the LDS church.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Nope, not proof.  Anti-Mormons have a response to that too.  Not that I agree with them.  But it is only good for us, not them.

I've read the anti-Mormon responses, that chiasmus, hebraisms, wordprint studies, etc. are all "chance"!  I think such responses are pathetic in the face of how overwhelming the evidence actually is, tantamount to sticking one's head in the sand, hoping that irrefutable evidence goes away (or refusal on the part of anti-Mormon writers to get too familiar with the subject matter at hand, in fear of being "converted", as happens ever so often!)  

The best anti-Mormon response was, "this proof is the work of the Devil".  Well, at least that explanation is not totally illogical... but then you have to reconcile the Church today with Matthew 7.  Where are all of the bad fruits?  Why are Mormons such good people?  Why is the Church making such a positive difference in the world?  Why is the Church keeping Christ at the forefront of the minds of millions, at a time when Christianity is dying in America?  

It simply doesn't make sense to say the Church is not true, no matter how you cut it.

Edited by DoctorLemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I've read the anti-Mormon responses, that chiasmus, hebraisms, wordprint studies, etc. are all "chance"!  

No, their response is even worse than that.  They say that Joseph Smith's personal writings also exhibit similar repetitive patterns.  So, apparently chiasmus was simply "Joseph Smith's Natural Language pattern."  They take that to be proof he was a false prophet.

I take that to mean that Prophets naturally speak in Hebraisms.  So, yeah, I'll buy that.

Edited by Carborendum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, their response is even worse than that.  They say that Joseph Smith's personal writings also exhibit similar repetitive patterns.  So, the apparently chiasmus was simply "Joseph Smith's Natural Language pattern."  They take that to be proof he was a false prophet.

I take that to mean that Prophets naturally speak in Hebraisms.  So, yeah, I'll buy that.

Then they run up against wordprint studies, which clearly show that the Book of Mormon was written by multiple people, none of whom match the writing style of Joseph Smith!

I also question if such anti-Mormons are aware of the scope of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon.  I get the sense they think it is random verses here and there, a sentence or two here and a sentence or two there.  Folks, there are entire chapters (Alma 36, e.g.) that have very clear Chiasmus structures, spanning dozens of verses.  Such structure is not the result of one's writing style, but very carefully planned poetic writing that would be outside the realm of an uneducated schoolboy.

So arguing that chiasmus is merely a product of Joseph Smith's writing style is what we in law call a non-sequitur.  

Edited by DoctorLemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

I also question if such anti-Mormons are aware of the scope of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon.

Remember I'm on the same side here.  But there really is no such thing as "proof" by mortal means.  Remember truth is only obtained through the Spirit.

EXAMPLE:

When analyzing the most famous chiasmus in the BoM (Alma's story of his conversion) it seems almost irrefutable to me and you.  It is so long and formatted.  But you know what they point to?  

Instead of the common version we refer to which is perfectly parallel, they point to an alternate version that re-defines a couplet saying that this one line out of about 30 is out of order.  Therefore, that is proof it was not intended to be chiasmus or that it was imperfect chiasmus.  This, of course, proves that it is a false book.

** My give up **

No, the truth is that none of this matters unless you've already been opened up to the idea because you're received a witness of the Holy Ghost.  That's all.  There is no other proof of divine things other than the Holy Ghost.  One might try to prove the Bible to an atheist.  It just won't happen through mortal means.  The only way to convert is through the Holy Ghost.

There are even those who have been "convinced" by these mortal means.  But without the foundation of the Power of the Holy Ghost, they end up being the seeds that were choked out by weeds.  It simply isn't strong enough to keep one converted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now