What happens if you do not get an answer

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

I was pretty much raised in the church.  My mother drug Dad and I to church and got us active.  Not wanting to not fit in I went along with those of my age.  I could bear my testimony and even get a tear in my eye.  I gave talks and did what was expected of me.  All along I felt nothing.  My mother basically forced me to go on a mission so I went.  After being out for a month I decided that I should do what I was telling investigators to do.  So I read, fasted, prayed, the whole bit and got nothing.  I tried it several times with the same result.  Finally I said screw it and just kicked back and enjoyed the non-religious part of my mission.  Over the years since I have tried to gain a testimony and every time got nothing.  I feel absolutely nothing as far as the church goes.  Could it be true, heck if I know.  I finally dropped out of the church and lived my life.  Recently the missionaries tracked me and my wife (she is catholic) and have been working on her to get her to join the church.  She is pretty much receptive.  I have kept my mouth shut because I do not want to interfere with her joining or not joining.  I figure at 66 I should start cramming for my finals LOL.  but still have  no idea if the church is true, if any of it is the truth.  What do you do IF you feel nothing?

[Guest]

You seem to be looking for a specific, one-time feeling regarding getting a testimony, such as the stereotypical "burning in the bosom".  Testimonies are different for everyone, and are not necessarily going to involve such a specific feeling.

My own testimony did not come from reading the Book of Mormon and getting some kind of instant feeling that it is all true.  I prayed about the Book of Mormon when I was 15 and did not receive an immediate answer.  The Lord did not give me my testimony in this way, by a feeling alone at one point of time.  Why?  Because the Lord knows that this kind of witness would not work for me personally.  I am too suspicious of my own emotions and feelings for this to work.  The Lord, in His wisdom, gave me a testimony through alternative means.  And yes, He made me work for it over several years.

It may be said that the Lord instilled within me a testimony, one piece at a time.  For example, at one point in time, He gave me a testimony that atheism is wrong, that He is there.  He gave me a testimony a little later on that Christ is the way.  He gave me a testimony a little later on that Calvinism is wrong.  Later on, he gave me a testimony that organized priesthood is key to His gospel.  I had many more small battles over a long period of time where I came to strongly believe one little bit of truth than another, until one day I woke up and realized all of these "small testimonies" added up to the belief that the Church absolutely must be true!

How did the Lord teach me?  It wasn't through pure emotion.  It was through a complex interaction of pondering doctrines of the Church, some logic, having new ideas enter into my mind from the Lord, having answers to my questions sometimes fall into my hands, examining how I felt about other religions and philosophies, and having some ability to discern doctrine that I believe is utterly false (e.g., I don't know how I know it, but I know Calvinism is completely wrong somehow).  

I guess what I am trying to say is, for me, getting a testimony wasn't a one-time feeling or emotion.  It involved many small victories over an extended period of time, and the Lord indeed made me work for it and fight for it.

If you want a testimony, perhaps you are like me - you need to keep going, keep pondering the questions and seeing how you feel about them until you can answer whether you believe in something or not rather than just saying "I don't know".

Start from the basics - do you believe in God, and how do you feel about God?  Then move on up from there.

Have patience, and keep at it!

Edited August 6, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Fether]

My answer didn't come till I was living the gospel and actively trying to repent and change my life for the better.

Maybe stop looking for an experience that says "Joseph Smith was a prophet and the Book of Mormon is true". Live the gospel band ask God if this is where you need to be and it is what you need to be doing.

I feel like that came to me far before a testimony if the specifics.

[person0]

Have you ever (regardless of the context) had an experience where you recognized the Holy Ghost?  If you have, then do what is necessary to invite the Holy Spirit, then after you know His influence is present, ask God if the Church is true.  If the Spirit stays, then you have your answer.  If it leaves (it won't), then you also have your answer.  During my mission, I was directly prompted by the Spirit to use this method.  This is the only method I have successfully followed to be able to say I have received and answer while praying that the Book of Mormon is true, and that the Church, prophets, etc, are also true.  That experience has since changed my life, understanding, and ability to teach the gospel and how to recognize and receive answers from the Spirit.

[Grunt]

5 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

You seem to be looking for a specific, one-time feeling regarding getting a testimony, such as the stereotypical "burning in the bosom".  Testimonies are different for everyone, and are not necessarily going to involve such a specific feeling.

My own testimony did not come from reading the Book of Mormon and getting some kind of instant feeling that it is all true.  I prayed about the Book of Mormon when I was 15 and did not receive an immediate answer.  The Lord did not give me my testimony in this way, by a feeling alone at one point of time.  Why?  Because the Lord knows that this kind of witness would not work for me personally.  I am too suspicious of my own emotions and feelings for this to work.  The Lord, in His wisdom, gave me a testimony through alternative means.  And yes, He made me work for it over several years.

It may be said that the Lord instilled within me a testimony, one piece at a time.  For example, at one point in time, He gave me a testimony that atheism is wrong, that He is there.  He gave me a testimony a little later on that Christ is the way.  He gave me a testimony a little later on that Calvinism is wrong.  Later on, he gave me a testimony that organized priesthood is key to His gospel.  I had many more small battles over a long period of time where I came to strongly believe one little bit of truth than another, until one day I woke up and realized all of these "small testimonies" added up to the belief that the Church absolutely must be true!

How did the Lord teach me?  It wasn't through pure emotion.  It was through a complex interaction of pondering doctrines of the Church, some logic, having new ideas enter into my mind from the Lord, having answers to my questions sometimes fall into my hands, examining how I felt about other religions and philosophies, and having some ability to discern doctrine that I believe is utterly false (e.g., I don't know how I know it, but I know Calvinism is completely wrong somehow).  

I guess what I am trying to say is, for me, getting a testimony wasn't a one-time feeling or emotion.  It involved many small victories over an extended period of time, and the Lord indeed made me work for it and fight for it.

If you want a testimony, perhaps you are like me - you need to keep going, keep pondering the questions and seeing how you feel about them until you can answer whether you believe in something or not rather than just saying "I don't know".

Start from the basics - do you believe in God, and how do you feel about God?  Then move on up from there.

Have patience, and keep at it!

This response helps me a lot.   Thank you for taking the time to write it.

[Guest]

The most important message I received about feeling the Spirit came from my patriarch.  Before he gave me my patriarchal blessing, he decided to have an interview with me.  During the interview I told him that I "liked" the Church.  But I really couldn't tell if I'd really been touched by the Spirit.

He was about 80 years old at the time, and he told me that he (as DoctorLemon mentions) has never had this one time event that told him everything was right and true.  He received just enough that he's seen good and was just enough to continue.  Every time he had a question, he kept seeing good things.  He never seen a vision or been visited by an angel.  He's never even had any overwhelming feeling that he could point back to and remember that everything was true.

Over his ample lifespan, he kept getting just enough to keep him going.  He continued.  But at some point in his life, he looked back and realized that every year of his life had been spent gradually increasing, line upon line, precept upon precept.  And at that point, he realized that he had no more doubts.  He knew as surely as if he'd heard the voice of God Himself.

The thing he didn't tell me at the time, that I've learned through other channels, is that the step by step progression only works if you truly live the gospel.  Not only do the little things like scripture study and prayer.  It means serving your best in every calling you have.  It means giving service to those in need.  It means praying and pondering every day.  It means always reviewing yourself every day to determine "What lack I yet?"

But if you don't know, why would you continue?  Based on what my partriarch said, it is because you see just enough good to know that it is good.  If it is good, continue.

Our faith is unlike any other faith in this one test.  We are either of God or of the Devil.  There is no in between.  All other faiths can say that they're man made.  They're doing the best they can.  They got a bunch of good people together trying to do some good.  But the origin story of this faith precludes that middle road.  If the Church is good, then we are the only true and living church on the face of the earth.  And it is led by God.  If we're not good, then we are evil and are led by the devil.

To me it is simple.  Are we of the devil?  Are we evil?  I know we aren't.  Given that it is a binary decision, it has to be of God.

For me, it was enough for me to continue for many years, decades.  And it was enough for me to continue growing all that time.  I didn't just sit there barely getting by spiritually.  I had to work at it for many years.  And I had a LOT to work on.  Over all that time, it was exactly as my patriarch told me.  I have gained that gradual increase in the Spirit.  I've also had several sacred experiences that I won't share publicly.  But today I know this is the true Church.  I have no doubts.

[Jane_Doe]

I personally dislike the phrase "burning in the bosom"- to me that sounds like heartburn, which is anything but divine.  Rather, to me the Holy Ghost feels like... calmness.  I most equate it to the scriptural scene "Master the tempest is raging!"-- the Master calms the seas.  He calms the storm in me-- soothes my inner ADD-jack-rabbit self to be calm and just listen.  To be calm and just feel.  And yes, from that feeling does come conviction to move, but also comes conviction to just be.  To just stay and be.

I find that how the Spirit touches each of us is very different.  Each person first needs to learn what it feels like to them- learn how to listen to Him, and then is better guided to specific answers.  And as many others said here, often times the biggest answers are built over time- like the swelling of the tide in each of our hearts.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Gomez - you sound a lot like me.  Except I went inactive before anyone could send me on a mission.  Anyway, here's my story:

Quote

Quote

Alma 32:27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words. 

Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.  

The first scripture promises a slowly evolving process from faith to knowledge, through the assumption that if it looks good, and acts good, and produces good fruit, then it is good.  Not really enough to base a testimony on, in my opinion.  But Moroni promised something else - "he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.".  That sounded a little more like it.  So, when I looked at the verse, it laid out my side of the bargain:
 
1- "And when ye shall receive these things" - Before it would work, I had to read the Book of Mormon.  But more than read it, to "receive" it.  I had to internalize it - deeply reading for meaning, more than just a cursory glance.  Not a critical reading, looking for faults.  I had to read it, with the notion that it very well might be exactly what it claimes to be - scripture.  True.  The word of God.  A literal history of people who literally lived.
 
2- "I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true" 
So, I had to pray.  Not just pray, but pray in the name of Christ.  That means, I had to be worthy of his name.  So, to take upon myself the name of Christ, I had to do and be a couple of main things:
* Not sinning
* Loving my neighbor
* Desiring to know a God I could love
 
I did not have to be perfect, I figured it was a matter of heart.  It wasn't how close to my destination I was, it mattered only that my compass was pointed in the right direction, and I was following it.  Yes, there was some doubt about what the compass was pointing to - was it true north, or just wishful thinking.  But that didn't matter - I was just trying to satisfy this part of the scripture - and be able to pray in the name of Christ.
So, I prayed.  I prayed nightly, starting about halfway through the book.  I prayed fervently.  My prayers were short and simple: "Dear Heavenly Father, if thou exist, thou knowest my heart.  Thou knowest I am sincere.  I desire to know of the truthfulness of this work.  Please show it to me.  In the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen".  Simple, plain, sincere, over and over again.  
 
3- "and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ,"
Ok - 3 requirements - and I had to have all 3 of them.  In years past, I had read the BoM and prayed in the name of Christ, and got nothing.  I was missing real intent - I figured I wouldn't get an answer, and praying was a way of proving my guess true.
It's about where my heart is.  It needs to be sincere, not with an ulterior motive, burdened by unrepented of sin, or trying to get something else out of the experience.  My intent had to be true.  No faith, no promise.
I can't impress enough on everyone, the importance of these 3 items.  They're related, but if you are missing one, don't be expecting anything.  If you are having a hard time figuring out where you are on these 3, you're probably not there.  
Throughout the process, I was comfortable with my part of the bargain.  It was like showing up for a test being very, very well prepared - there's a confidence based on the fact that you know what you're doing.  I wasn't lying to myself, or bending any rules, or figuring out the least I could do to satisfy the bare minimum - I was there, and there solidly.
I did not believe in God - but I didn't have to.  I just had to want to.  I was not setting aside doubts - they held the center stage.  
 
4- "He will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
 
So, what can I say - it happened.    It happened at work, where I was a candy maker, with an arm covered with chocolate.  (If you've ever been to a fancy hotel, or taken a fancy cruise, and there's a chocolate mint on your pillow - that's what I used to make by hand.)
 
The details?  I need to be a bit vague, the details are a bit embarrassing.  I was working away quietly, thinking about reality, wondering if I'd ever know what it was, and thinking about an unresolved situation in my life.  I was at a crossroads, only tangentially related to my quest to discover the truth about the Book of Mormon.  As I thought about this crossroads, trying to discern what to make out of the facts before me, I thought something along the lines of "Well, this pattern indicates that things are moving in the right direction... "
 
And it happened.
 
Words can't really explain it - they can only approximate it.  
 
It was unmistakable, not a warm fuzzy, not an emotional reaction.
 
I had my answer.  It was "yes".  
 
It was a strong, internal sensation.  Not a feeling - I wasn't happy or sad.  The best word is "confirmation" .  And what was it confirming?  Many things.   It was confirming that yes, I had just said something true - the pattern I was looking at was indeed moving in the right direction.  It confirmed that there WAS a right direction.  It confirmed that this notion of reality that I had looked at - this bizarre tale of prophets and plates and revelations and restorations, had the added benefit of being true.
 
A few side details:
* The first thing that dawned on me was, "My gosh, this is the Holy Ghost speaking with me!"  The second thought that came a few minutes later was "My gosh, I've felt this before!"  In one or two of the most stressful times of my life, I had felt that sensation before.  I had written off the experience at the time, but realization flooded me - the Lord had stood by me, even while I was inactive.
 
* Other people tell me their conversion stories, and they are often different.  My Bishop, as a young man, was watching a sunset, and said a brief prayer "thank you, God", and heard the words as clear as day "You'll be all right - I'll always take care of you".  My experience was different.  Another guy from my ward had been desiring to feel the Love of Christ - and felt it unexpectedly when he stood up to shake hands with a brother from another ward.  They stood there with clasped hands, with tears flowing down both their faces.  My experience was different - there was not a lot of emotion (although I pretty soon felt exhilleration, as it sank in what was happening).  My wife's grandfather was on a bar stool 40 years ago, having left the church, and was almost knocked to the floor by the words "Wayne, why hast thou forsaken me?"   I heard no words.  The energy and the impact was internal to me, not external like it was to him.
 
* I have since felt this impression, this confirmation, quite often.  As I returned to church in full force, keeping my baptismal covenant, the Holy Ghost has been, at points in my life, my constant companion.
 
* I have since been able to test this "answer", this influence of the spirit, this burning in the bosom, fairly scientifically. I've been able, once, to "switch" it on and off several times, by asking the Lord in prayer "should I do this?.... should I not do this?...  should I do this?"

[CV75]

12 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I was pretty much raised in the church.  My mother drug Dad and I to church and got us active.  Not wanting to not fit in I went along with those of my age.  I could bear my testimony and even get a tear in my eye.  I gave talks and did what was expected of me.  All along I felt nothing.  My mother basically forced me to go on a mission so I went.  After being out for a month I decided that I should do what I was telling investigators to do.  So I read, fasted, prayed, the whole bit and got nothing.  I tried it several times with the same result.  Finally I said screw it and just kicked back and enjoyed the non-religious part of my mission.  Over the years since I have tried to gain a testimony and every time got nothing.  I feel absolutely nothing as far as the church goes.  Could it be true, heck if I know.  I finally dropped out of the church and lived my life.  Recently the missionaries tracked me and my wife (she is catholic) and have been working on her to get her to join the church.  She is pretty much receptive.  I have kept my mouth shut because I do not want to interfere with her joining or not joining.  I figure at 66 I should start cramming for my finals LOL.  but still have  no idea if the church is true, if any of it is the truth.  What do you do IF you feel nothing?

I question whether you feel nothing since as a child you could make yourself get a tear in your eye. As a non-crier, I find that hard to believe. So you might benefit by questioning why you are in denial, which may be the purpose of your post.

But if I feel nothing, I make the best decision I can, in good faith. As you do so, this will acknowledge and honor your love for your wife and your desire to protect her happiness. Then, if finding spiritual significance in Christ ever develops, you are that much further ahead in your sanctification.

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

I typed an answer but not sure if it was saved because it disappeared, so will repeat post.

I feel no emotions I am empty inside. I feel nothing for my children or my wife and have a few acquaintances (count them on one hand and have fingers left over) rather than friends.  I have been married twice, the first time because it was expected of me.  My mother wanted grandchildren.  The second because the woman I was seeing did not have health insurance so I married her to put her on my insurance.  Both were the logical things to do.  Is there a god, I have no idea; I have yet to see any of my prayers answered. I do pray, even a drowning man will clutch at a straw, so I pray in the possibility that a god of some type exists. But I am basically an agnostic.  I wish there was a god, but am waiting to find out.  If there is a god and everything taught is true, that would be fine, if there is nothing beyond death, then that would be fine also. 

 

I was diagnosed as a Schizoid, and although I have not been diagnosed I think I also suffer from Reactive Attachment Disorder (I spent the first year of my life in an orphanage). And my grandson was diagnosed as having Asperger (this runs in families which means I probably have it also). I have learned to function by reading books, watching TV and movies and watching people. I imitate what I think is the most logical response to situations. So, yes I could get a tear in my eye.  Just like actors who can make themselves tear up when needed.  One of the women I dated for a short while told me that she had thought her ex-husband was cold, but I was the coldest SOB she had ever seen and made her ex look like a warm and caring emotional guy.  As I said I use logic to read various situations and then act accordingly.  Most of the time I get it right, (look “sad” at funerals, laugh at jokes, act friendly at parties (I hate parties), etc.).  Occasionally I get it wrong and it creates all sorts of problems (I do not like confrontations). 

 

Schizoid

Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. Affected individuals may simultaneously demonstrate a rich, elaborate and exclusively internal fantasy world.

RAD

• Superficially engaging & charming
• Lack of eye contact
• Not affectionate (not ‘cuddly’)
• Destructive to self, others and material things (‘accident prone’)
• Lying about the obvious (‘crazy’ lying)
• Stealing
• No impulse controls (frequently acts hyperactive)
• Lack of cause-and-effect thinking
• Lack of conscience
• Poor peer relationships
• Preoccupation with blood & gore

Asperger

Failure to Develop Friendships

Inability to Empathize:   Individuals with Asperger’s syndrome may find difficulty empathizing with others. As they age, the affected person will learn the accepted social response for interacting with others. While they may react appropriately and say the “right” things, they may not understand why the other person is truly upset.

Social Awkwardness

Narrowed Interests

Inability to Empathize:   Individuals with Asperger’s syndrome may find difficulty empathizing with others. As they age, the affected person will learn the accepted social response for interacting with others. While they may react appropriately and say the “right” things, they may not understand why the other person is truly upset.

Social Awkwardness

Narrowed Interests

Literal Interpretations

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On 9/2/2017 at 0:43 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I typed an answer but not sure if it was saved because it disappeared, so will repeat post.

I feel no emotions I am empty inside. I feel nothing for my children or my wife and have a few acquaintances (count them on one hand and have fingers left over) rather than friends. 

Schizoid

<>

RAD

<>

Asperger

These conditions will create roadblocks to feeling the Spirit.  You need to do a work around.  Tell me, do you ALWAYS 100% of the time feel this way and exhibit these symptoms?  Or do you have moments here and there where you might get "clarity" away from these conditions?

If so, it is in those moments where you need to ask the question.  At other times, ponder, consider, study, pray, and all other things.  But if you ask the question while burdened with these conditions, you simply will not feel the Spirit.  So, do all those things whenever you can.  But specifically ask the question during those moments where you are more "aware" of the world around you and you see people as people.

[Traveler]

 

@Gomezaddams51

I am wondering why you are thinking feelings (emotions) are spiritual or shall I say transcendent or enlightened.  Has the realization of any truth caused an emotional response with you?  I assume you are able to identify something that is truthful (real).  I have a son that works in the field of virtual reality.  I have been involved with some of the “leading edge” stuff he is working with and it is quite an experience.  We humans really do not sense anything but rather our sensory inputs are sent to our brain that “filters” and then creates a reality paradigm for us.

So, my simple question is – what knowledge or understanding do you have of anything?  And where does that understanding and knowledge come from?

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

On 9/6/2017 at 8:28 AM, Traveler said:

 

@Gomezaddams51

,,,Has the realization of any truth caused an emotional response with you?  I assume you are able to identify something that is truthful (real).  I have a son that works in the field of virtual reality...  So, my simple question is – what knowledge or understanding do you have of anything?  And where does that understanding and knowledge come from?

 

The Traveler

Actually no, no response.  When it comes to the truthfulness of something, I examine it logically and if it seems to be something that could happen then I tentatively accept it as truth.  However this is not always true.  Somethings defy logic and it kind of throws me into a "tilt" where things just do not compute.

[Traveler]

16 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Actually no, no response.  When it comes to the truthfulness of something, I examine it logically and if it seems to be something that could happen then I tentatively accept it as truth.  However this is not always true.  Somethings defy logic and it kind of throws me into a "tilt" where things just do not compute.

Do you ever experience joy over a discovery of, compleation of or resolution to something you have studied or worked on for a very long time (perhaps several years)?  Do you ever have feelings related to very difficult or near impossible and exceptional accomplishment? 

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

On 9/14/2017 at 7:23 AM, Traveler said:

Do you ever experience joy over a discovery of, completion of or resolution to something you have studied or worked on for a very long time (perhaps several years)?  Do you ever have feelings related to very difficult or near impossible and exceptional accomplishment? 

 

The Traveler

Actually no.  I am basically flat line when it comes to emotion or feelings. 

[Traveler]

11 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Actually no.  I am basically flat line when it comes to emotion or feelings. 

Let us consider something else - together.  How do you determine what is true and what is false but perhaps a very good counterfeit of truth?  How do you come to form an opinion about anything and then assure yourself you have not been carefully and artfully deceived?  Especially non empirical things - like who you can trust?  Do you ever get the sense that something is missing but you do not know what or do you ever get the sense that someone is lying to you but you cannot prove it?

 

The Traveler

Edited September 21, 2017 by Traveler

[mdfxdb]

OP has a disorder.  He should seek professional help.  If he wants to be logical, then the question is the following:

Will my life, and the life of those I love be better as a consequence of being an active participating member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

If the answer is yes, then reactivate, baptize the wife.

[brlenox]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:43 AM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I typed an answer but not sure if it was saved because it disappeared, so will repeat post.

I feel no emotions I am empty inside. I feel nothing for my children or my wife and have a few acquaintances (count them on one hand and have fingers left over) rather than friends.  I have been married twice, the first time because it was expected of me.  My mother wanted grandchildren.  The second because the woman I was seeing did not have health insurance so I married her to put her on my insurance.  Both were the logical things to do.  Is there a god, I have no idea; I have yet to see any of my prayers answered. I do pray, even a drowning man will clutch at a straw, so I pray in the possibility that a god of some type exists. But I am basically an agnostic.  I wish there was a god, but am waiting to find out.  If there is a god and everything taught is true, that would be fine, if there is nothing beyond death, then that would be fine also. 

I was diagnosed as a Schizoid, and although I have not been diagnosed I think I also suffer from Reactive Attachment Disorder (I spent the first year of my life in an orphanage). And my grandson was diagnosed as having Asperger (this runs in families which means I probably have it also). I have learned to function by reading books, watching TV and movies and watching people. I imitate what I think is the most logical response to situations. So, yes I could get a tear in my eye.  Just like actors who can make themselves tear up when needed.  One of the women I dated for a short while told me that she had thought her ex-husband was cold, but I was the coldest SOB she had ever seen and made her ex look like a warm and caring emotional guy.  As I said I use logic to read various situations and then act accordingly.  Most of the time I get it right, (look “sad” at funerals, laugh at jokes, act friendly at parties (I hate parties), etc.).  Occasionally I get it wrong and it creates all sorts of problems (I do not like confrontations). 

Schizoid

Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. Affected individuals may simultaneously demonstrate a rich, elaborate and exclusively internal fantasy world.

RAD

• Superficially engaging & charming
• Lack of eye contact
• Not affectionate (not ‘cuddly’)
• Destructive to self, others and material things (‘accident prone’)
• Lying about the obvious (‘crazy’ lying)
• Stealing
• No impulse controls (frequently acts hyperactive)
• Lack of cause-and-effect thinking
• Lack of conscience
• Poor peer relationships
• Preoccupation with blood & gore

Asperger

Failure to Develop Friendships

Inability to Empathize:   Individuals with Asperger’s syndrome may find difficulty empathizing with others. As they age, the affected person will learn the accepted social response for interacting with others. While they may react appropriately and say the “right” things, they may not understand why the other person is truly upset.

Social Awkwardness

Narrowed Interests

Inability to Empathize:   Individuals with Asperger’s syndrome may find difficulty empathizing with others. As they age, the affected person will learn the accepted social response for interacting with others. While they may react appropriately and say the “right” things, they may not understand why the other person is truly upset.

Literal Interpretations

Fascinating to read your descriptions above of yourself.  Virtually identical to my own in most respects.  Do you also fall into the hyper intelligent realms?  While there is a lot of commonality, I do not lie, steal, find any interest in blood and gore, nor do I possess narrowed interests.  Otherwise the rest applies to me in some degree or another.  I score pretty high on sociopathic tests.  All of that said where we differ greatly is I know the church to be true and have been blessed with frequent, often intense spiritual experiences of most varieties. Over the years I have learned how to address most of the material you describe to a greater or lessor extent and as I have gotten older fewer things have appeal to me outside of Gospel Study which is my predominate field of engagement. 

My point is that I do not think that these personality characteristics are the hindrance to your growth spiritually.  In part, I have made many decisions precisely because I know these things about myself.  Knowing that my mind tends to zealous over engaging behaviors, Knowing of my various awkward tendencies, recognizing that I am not the best at relationships and that I have for a lifetime had difficulty staying on task and am easily distracted all of these things represent my natural filters for how I process information.  Logically I have determined then that most of my first responses are suspect as they will be the auto interpretations that are subject to the subconscious overlay of my natural tendencies.   If a new person makes me feel awkward, I accept full responsibility for that response as that is natural to me and then I try to overcome that and push myself to get to know the person well enough that I can interact with at least objectivity. That pattern is typical of most of my responses. I accept full responsibility for every response I have and quite frequently I accept responsibility for the responses that others have towards me and then I try to work towards eventually qualifying my behavior until I can get a response into a realm of determined proper boundaries.  Nonetheless, while I am quite willing to acknowledge that my filters are generally going to lead to invalid or weak initial interpretations, the fact that I am able to see beyond me for examples and improvements has provided for me a sense of much satisfaction with myself.  I quite like me, who I am and what I stand for.

A couple of other things have helped.  I long ago established standards of governance which are predicated upon accepting certain examples as more ideal than my own. This is another kind of process of logical analysis.  I study the lives and words of apostles and prophets until I genuinely know them and how they would act in certain situations.  I try to let that be a governing element to establish a standard of behavior that is some what foreign to me.  Their examples also point to Christ and I make every effort of seeking to comprehend him as a person and his manner of thinking.  Understanding things thoroughly and completely and correctly is critically important to me.   In short, I know me and I know my shortfalls and I make every effort to submit my behaviors to the examples I have been able to observe over the years that emulate behaviors that I can see are far better than my default sub-conscience behaviors.  Over time I have become more like these others and have been greatly blessed with experiences that I wonder if I could ever have had except that the Lord knows my whole being is desirous of submitting to his will and example and frankly I'm not sure it matters if you are as quirky as I am or as normal as normal can be, submitting our natural tendencies to the Lord is required of each.     

Edited October 13, 2017 by brlenox

[Traveler]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:36 AM, brlenox said:

Fascinating to read your descriptions above of yourself.  Virtually identical to my own in most respects.  Do you also fall into the hyper intelligent realms?  While there is a lot of commonality, I do not lie, steal, find any interest in blood and gore, nor do I possess narrowed interests.  Otherwise the rest applies to me in some degree or another.  I score pretty high on sociopathic tests.  All of that said where we differ greatly is I know the church to be true and have been blessed with frequent, often intense spiritual experiences of most varieties. Over the years I have learned how to address most of the material you describe to a greater or lessor extent and as I have gotten older fewer things have appeal to me outside of Gospel Study which is my predominate field of engagement. 

 

In the quest for truth – I understand that there are divine principles that comprise what we call “The Gospel of Jesus Christ”.  But I have discovered (at least for myself as a scientist and engineer) that there are many basic truths that are mostly pursued by the scientific community (sometimes completely rejected by some in the religious Christian community) yet these truths contribute a great deal to the wellbeing, knowledge and strength of our society and education in general.  I am a little surprised that with your talents you are not that interested in seeking a broader spectrum of truths.

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

On 9/21/2017 at 8:21 AM, Traveler said:

Let us consider something else - together.  How do you determine what is true and what is false but perhaps a very good counterfeit of truth?  How do you come to form an opinion about anything and then assure yourself you have not been carefully and artfully deceived?  Especially non empirical things - like who you can trust?  Do you ever get the sense that something is missing but you do not know what or do you ever get the sense that someone is lying to you but you cannot prove it?

 

The Traveler

I must admit that I have fallen for some very bad "truths" and people who took advantage of me over the years.  I found that the best way to "handle" things is to not trust anyone.  Actually the people I trust can be counted on one finger of one hand.  I trust my wife for the most part, mainly because she has not done anything that makes me distrust her.  I found the perfect to make sure I can trust her.  She is legally blind and therefore depends on me to drive her around so I know where she is and what she is doing.  

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

On 10/13/2017 at 12:36 AM, brlenox said:

Fascinating to read your descriptions above of yourself.  Virtually identical to my own in most respects.  Do you also fall into the hyper intelligent realms?  While there is a lot of commonality, I do not lie, steal, find any interest in blood and gore, nor do I possess narrowed interests.  Otherwise the rest applies to me in some degree or another.  I score pretty high on sociopathic tests.  All of that said where we differ greatly is I know the church to be true and have been blessed with frequent, often intense spiritual experiences of most varieties. Over the years I have learned how to address most of the material you describe to a greater or lessor extent and as I have gotten older fewer things have appeal to me outside of Gospel Study which is my predominate field of engagement. 

My point is that I do not think that these personality characteristics are the hindrance to your growth spiritually.  In part, I have made many decisions precisely because I know these things about myself.  Knowing that my mind tends to zealous over engaging behaviors, Knowing of my various awkward tendencies, recognizing that I am not the best at relationships and that I have for a lifetime had difficulty staying on task and am easily distracted all of these things represent my natural filters for how I process information.  Logically I have determined then that most of my first responses are suspect as they will be the auto interpretations that are subject to the subconscious overlay of my natural tendencies.   If a new person makes me feel awkward, I accept full responsibility for that response as that is natural to me and then I try to overcome that and push myself to get to know the person well enough that I can interact with at least objectivity. That pattern is typical of most of my responses. I accept full responsibility for every response I have and quite frequently I accept responsibility for the responses that others have towards me and then I try to work towards eventually qualifying my behavior until I can get a response into a realm of determined proper boundaries.  Nonetheless, while I am quite willing to acknowledge that my filters are generally going to lead to invalid or weak initial interpretations, the fact that I am able to see beyond me for examples and improvements has provided for me a sense of much satisfaction with myself.  I quite like me, who I am and what I stand for.

A couple of other things have helped.  I long ago established standards of governance which are predicated upon accepting certain examples as more ideal than my own. This is another kind of process of logical analysis.  I study the lives and words of apostles and prophets until I genuinely know them and how they would act in certain situations.  I try to let that be a governing element to establish a standard of behavior that is some what foreign to me.  Their examples also point to Christ and I make every effort of seeking to comprehend him as a person and his manner of thinking.  Understanding things thoroughly and completely and correctly is critically important to me.   In short, I know me and I know my shortfalls and I make every effort to submit my behaviors to the examples I have been able to observe over the years that emulate behaviors that I can see are far better than my default sub-conscience behaviors.  Over time I have become more like these others and have been greatly blessed with experiences that I wonder if I could ever have had except that the Lord knows my whole being is desirous of submitting to his will and example and frankly I'm not sure it matters if you are as quirky as I am or as normal as normal can be, submitting our natural tendencies to the Lord is required of each.     

Not sure about the hyper intelligent thing.  My IQ is 130.  Yeah I pretty much ace the Sociopath tests.  

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

On 9/21/2017 at 10:42 AM, mdfxdb said:

OP has a disorder.  He should seek professional help.  If he wants to be logical, then the question is the following:

Will my life, and the life of those I love be better as a consequence of being an active participating member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

If the answer is yes, then reactivate, baptize the wife.

Well I had a talk with the Bishop and later baptized my wife.  She is happy, and I decided to go along and once again play the part of a good little Mormon.  It took some doing to get back into the religious mode of my teens but I think I have it down and the members fooled.   I see a psychiatrist at the VA.  All he does is give me Rx for anti-depressants.

[Traveler]

5 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I must admit that I have fallen for some very bad "truths" and people who took advantage of me over the years.  I found that the best way to "handle" things is to not trust anyone.  Actually the people I trust can be counted on one finger of one hand.  I trust my wife for the most part, mainly because she has not done anything that makes me distrust her.  I found the perfect to make sure I can trust her.  She is legally blind and therefore depends on me to drive her around so I know where she is and what she is doing.  

 

I am of the notion that your problem is not that you cannot get answers about G-d and such as much as that you do not seem to have much luck at finding answers for the validation of any truth.   Plus, since you say you only trust your wife – and not because of any capability of discernment on your own part but because you are as dependent on her for trust as she is on you for understanding sight. 

I am not making this assumption to be critical – certainly not to make you feel bad because obviously feeling (sensing) is not a construct you connect intellectually with.  My suggestion is therefore not to look for answers to anything beyond that which is empirical but to discipline yourself to love and have compassion for everyone you interact with.  Not for hope of gaining anything other than to prove to yourself that you can act on the non-empirical abstraction of love.  Then if you can master this abstraction of love – not as a deception but as a personal capability – at least – if nothing else you can answer the question that you are capable of learning the truth of love.  If you can discover that truth of something non-empirical – perhaps then you can someday learn the truth of something else.

 

The Traveler

[wenglund]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:23 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I was pretty much raised in the church.  My mother drug Dad and I to church and got us active.  Not wanting to not fit in I went along with those of my age.  I could bear my testimony and even get a tear in my eye.  I gave talks and did what was expected of me.  All along I felt nothing.  My mother basically forced me to go on a mission so I went.  After being out for a month I decided that I should do what I was telling investigators to do.  So I read, fasted, prayed, the whole bit and got nothing.  I tried it several times with the same result.  Finally I said screw it and just kicked back and enjoyed the non-religious part of my mission.  Over the years since I have tried to gain a testimony and every time got nothing.  I feel absolutely nothing as far as the church goes.  Could it be true, heck if I know.  I finally dropped out of the church and lived my life.  Recently the missionaries tracked me and my wife (she is catholic) and have been working on her to get her to join the church.  She is pretty much receptive.  I have kept my mouth shut because I do not want to interfere with her joining or not joining.  I figure at 66 I should start cramming for my finals LOL.  but still have  no idea if the church is true, if any of it is the truth.  What do you do IF you feel nothing?

Those who, for whatever reason, don't sense the confirmation of the Spirit as per Moroni 10:4-5 (i.e. what some call "emotion"), still have access to the complimentary means of confirmation via Alma 32:21-43. The former method represents the planting of a seed of faith, whereas the later is the realization of the fruit-bearing plant grown from the seed. The former is about knowing, whereas the latter is ultimately about becoming.

Think of it in terms of determining which path leads to the top of the mountain. You can ask the ultimate trail guide which path is "true," and receive confirmation. But, absent that, or in addition to that, you can get on the path and start earnestly hiking to see where the path takes you--see if it takes you to the top of the mountain as claimed.

Many people make the mistake of assuming that the "truth" of the gospel is wholly, if not predominately a matter of knowledge and conviction, whereas, as Elder Oaks pointed out last April General Conference:  "Attaining what the Apostle Paul described as 'the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ' (Ephesians 4:13) requires far more than acquiring knowledge. It is not even enough for us to be convinced of the gospel; we must act and think so that we are converted by it. In contrast to the institutions of the world, which teach us to know something, the plan of salvation and the gospel of Jesus Christ challenge us to become something." (see HERE)

In short, the "truth" of the gospel is entailed in whether or not it will enables each of us to attain the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. The witness of the Spirit will let us know that it is "true" (i.e that it will enable such), which may encourage us to embark on the path, whereas living the gospel, or following the path, will enable us to realize its truth, or become the "truth."

Likewise, if one isn't interested in attain the full measure and stature of Christ, even eventually as Elder Holland suggests,  the "truth" of the gospel is, to a lesser degree, entailed in making bad men good and good men better.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 20, 2017 by wenglund

[james12]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:43 AM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I feel no emotions I am empty inside. I feel nothing for my children or my wife and have a few acquaintances (count them on one hand and have fingers left over) rather than friends.  I have been married twice, the first time because it was expected of me.  My mother wanted grandchildren.  The second because the woman I was seeing did not have health insurance so I married her to put her on my insurance.  Both were the logical things to do.  Is there a god, I have no idea; I have yet to see any of my prayers answered. I do pray, even a drowning man will clutch at a straw, so I pray in the possibility that a god of some type exists. But I am basically an agnostic.  I wish there was a god, but am waiting to find out.  If there is a god and everything taught is true, that would be fine, if there is nothing beyond death, then that would be fine also. 

I was diagnosed as a Schizoid, and although I have not been diagnosed I think I also suffer from Reactive Attachment Disorder (I spent the first year of my life in an orphanage). And my grandson was diagnosed as having Asperger (this runs in families which means I probably have it also). I have learned to function by reading books, watching TV and movies and watching people. I imitate what I think is the most logical response to situations. So, yes I could get a tear in my eye.  Just like actors who can make themselves tear up when needed.  One of the women I dated for a short while told me that she had thought her ex-husband was cold, but I was the coldest SOB she had ever seen and made her ex look like a warm and caring emotional guy.  As I said I use logic to read various situations and then act accordingly.  Most of the time I get it right, (look “sad” at funerals, laugh at jokes, act friendly at parties (I hate parties), etc.).  Occasionally I get it wrong and it creates all sorts of problems (I do not like confrontations). 

Trust is vital to relationships with men and with God. When we carry mistrust to the extreme no one can get in. Not our wife, not our children, not even God. He will stay in that room you placed him in knocking to come out but you must open the door. With regard to this subject, I ran across this statement and tend to agree with it: 

Quote

If we turn off trust because of the actions of some untrustworthy people, we also turn off the opportunity to trust all the rest. Paranoia is not attractive. Trust and faith run in the same circles, and there can be a temptation to turn away from both if our hearts and minds are overridden with distrust and fear – neither of which is conducive to spiritual growth. (http://middleagedmormonman.com/home/2016/08/trust-trusted/)

Also worth considering are Elder Packer's words: 

Quote

A few years ago I indulged on one occasion in some introspection and found there were reasons why I didn’t like myself very well. Foremost among them was the fact that I was suspicious of everyone. When I met someone, 1 had in mind this thought: “What’s his motive? What’s he going to try to do?” This came about because I had been badly manipulated, abused by someone I trusted. Cynicism and bitterness were growing within. I determined to change and made a decision that I would trust everyone. I have tried to follow that role since. If someone is not worthy of trust, it is his responsibility to show it—not mine to find it out...

As I begin a new relationship with anyone—students, missionaries, or those with whom I associate or whom I supervise—it is on the basis of confidence and trust. I have been much happier since. Of course, there have been times when I have been disappointed, and a few times when I have been badly taken advantage of. I do not care about that. Who am I not to be so misused or abused? Why should I be above that? If that is the price of extending trust to everyone, I am glad to pay it.

I have come to be much less afraid of the possibility of being “used” than I was before. It is sometimes painful when one is misused or when trust or confidence is not honored. That kind of pain, however, is not unbearable, for it is only pain; it is not agony. The only agony I know is when I discover that inadvertently I have misused someone else. That is torture; that I will avoid... (https://www.lds.org/liahona/1977/07/understanding-students?lang=eng)