What happens if you do not get an answer

[pwrfrk]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:23 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I finally dropped out of the church and lived my life.  Recently the missionaries tracked me and my wife (she is catholic) and have been working on her to get her to join the church.  She is pretty much receptive.  I have kept my mouth shut because I do not want to interfere with her joining or not joining.  I figure at 66 I should start cramming for my finals LOL.  but still have  no idea if the church is true, if any of it is the truth.  What do you do IF you feel nothing?

The church IS, IMO, the true church.  However, the church is not for everyone.  Is that destiny?  No, I think it's a matter of personal choice.  If you feel nothing, then you feel nothing.  No one can change that.  To feel it you must first see it and experience it.

[askandanswer]

On 8/6/2017 at 3:23 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

What do you do IF you feel nothing?

You keep trying until you do. The effort is worth the reward. And what is it that you keep trying? The same old stuff, because its the only stuff that really works - faith, prayer, scripture reading, trust in God. sincere desire, humility, righteous living, and obedience to the word of God and His chosen servants. Repeat until successful. Even if you're never successful, as long as you keep trying to live like this and do these things you'll still be greatly blessed, and have a much better life for having made the effort.  

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.  I have decided  to follow the "fake it till you make it" road and see where it takes me.  Since I am much older than the last time I tried, perhaps it will work out.  I am at an age where as my dad used to say,  I am "Cramming for my finals".  Thanks again...

[Traveler]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:35 AM, Gomezaddams51 said:

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.  I have decided  to follow the "fake it till you make it" road and see where it takes me.  Since I am much older than the last time I tried, perhaps it will work out.  I am at an age where as my dad used to say,  I am "Cramming for my finals".  Thanks again...

From time to time - feel free to return and let us know how your experiment is working out.

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

Well figured I would give a status report.  I found that is way easier to just go along with the flow.  So I give whatever response that I think is acceptable.   Still blank as far as getting any feeling one way or another... 

[wenglund]

6 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well figured I would give a status report.  I found that is way easier to just go along with the flow.  So I give whatever response that I think is acceptable.   Still blank as far as getting any feeling one way or another... 

I appreciate the update.  Even though the "s"feeling are still "blank," what about the quality of your character and life? Are they blanks as well in light of living the gospel? (as per  Alma 32:21-43)?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

I guess the quality of  my character and life is pretty good.  I have pretty much given up my "heathen ways".  As my dad used to say, I am old enough to start cramming for my finals...    

[mikegriffith]

Although everyone's path to gaining a testimony is not the same, gaining a testimony must eventually involve feeling the "burning of the bosom" described in the New Testament and in the Doctrine and Covenants. There is no adequate way to describe how it feels to someone who has not felt it. It is a lot like trying to describe how salt tastes to someone who has never tasted salt or any spice close to salt. But, if I had to try to describe it, I would say that it is a warm feeling inside you that causes you to feel a great sense of peace and joy, and sometimes it will be accompanied by intelligence communicated to your mind.

[pwrfrk]

Is there some kind of expectation on what the testimony is to be?  Do you expect multitudes of people to go rushing to the streets waving their arms in praise, singing "Hallelujah" or would watching a man or woman survive a wreck under circumstances that the person should have died?

There are times you could be watching an event unfold that for anything in this world you'd think "wow, that's really neat", and you may not realize the overall impact of the event is much much greater than what you observe.  That could be enough.  You may see, for example, an 8 year old kid get hit by a car while riding his bike, and he gets up and walks away.  Lucky kid, right?  That helmet he's wearing, that helmet he may have stolen from a WalMart because it looked cool.  Don't know about you, but that seems to me to be testimony.

Be open minded, and don't expect the whole world to sing praises.

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

Well it has been some time and I thought I would give an update.  I baptized the wife, I hate to say it but the Bishop interviewed me I automatically fell into my old ways of agreeing with what he asked.  He asked me if I was worthy and  I said yes.  Since 2010 I have not done anything to bad.  I sure didn't want to go into anything I had done from back in the 80's and especially the 90's and early 2000's.

My wife loves it, she has no desire to go to the temple and once she found out about the garments it was a definite NO.  But she does like to go to church.  She finally has some female friends that she gets along with real well and enjoys talking to.  On the brights side, if anything happens to me, she at least won't be stuck here alone.  I think I mentioned she is legally blind so she cannot drive.

As for me, nothing has changed, I still feel nothing about the church and am more agnostic than anything.  But I go with her (take her) to church on Sundays.  I have been enjoying the hell out of the Quarantine without church and hope it continues for a long time.  But when it starts I will go back to being my wife's driver.  I got stuck..er the privilege of being the "greeter" and passing out programs when meetings were being held.  I hate having to be nice and smile and act like I am glad to meet people but I have a good actor so I can fake it.  

Anyway, that is basically an update.  Pretty much same crap different day....  

[Vort]

@Gomezaddams51, don't give up. Keep striving to be perfectly honest and transparent. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to schedule a meeting with your bishop where you openly bring these issues up and talk them over with him. Maybe you could do so with your elders quorum president. I think it's great that you're trying to do what's right and trying to at least go through the motions. I strongly believe that, with time, the feelings and spiritual promptings that should accompany the motions will come. But only if you are sincere in your efforts and keep striving to do what's right. Please don't let discouragement or cynical disillusion taint your efforts. I believe you can make a fully acceptable sacrifice before God. Only don't succumb to discouragement or cynicism. I sincerely wish you all the best in your efforts.

[Jane_Doe]

22 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well it has been some time and I thought I would give an update.  I baptized the wife, I hate to say it but the Bishop interviewed me I automatically fell into my old ways of agreeing with what he asked.  He asked me if I was worthy and  I said yes.  Since 2010 I have not done anything to bad.  I sure didn't want to go into anything I had done from back in the 80's and especially the 90's and early 2000's.

My wife loves it, she has no desire to go to the temple and once she found out about the garments it was a definite NO.  But she does like to go to church.  She finally has some female friends that she gets along with real well and enjoys talking to.  On the brights side, if anything happens to me, she at least won't be stuck here alone.  I think I mentioned she is legally blind so she cannot drive.

As for me, nothing has changed, I still feel nothing about the church and am more agnostic than anything.  But I go with her (take her) to church on Sundays.  I have been enjoying the hell out of the Quarantine without church and hope it continues for a long time.  But when it starts I will go back to being my wife's driver.  I got stuck..er the privilege of being the "greeter" and passing out programs when meetings were being held.  I hate having to be nice and smile and act like I am glad to meet people but I have a good actor so I can fake it.  

Anyway, that is basically an update.  Pretty much same crap different day....  

It's good be supporting your wife with your physical location.

As to yourself, the saying comes to mind:  "A body in motion stays in motion, a body at rest stays at rest".  So if you want to stay where you are, then staying is the least-effort thing to do.  If you want to change something, then you do have that option.

[Traveler]

32 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well it has been some time and I thought I would give an update.  I baptized the wife, I hate to say it but the Bishop interviewed me I automatically fell into my old ways of agreeing with what he asked.  He asked me if I was worthy and  I said yes.  Since 2010 I have not done anything to bad.  I sure didn't want to go into anything I had done from back in the 80's and especially the 90's and early 2000's.

My wife loves it, she has no desire to go to the temple and once she found out about the garments it was a definite NO.  But she does like to go to church.  She finally has some female friends that she gets along with real well and enjoys talking to.  On the brights side, if anything happens to me, she at least won't be stuck here alone.  I think I mentioned she is legally blind so she cannot drive.

As for me, nothing has changed, I still feel nothing about the church and am more agnostic than anything.  But I go with her (take her) to church on Sundays.  I have been enjoying the hell out of the Quarantine without church and hope it continues for a long time.  But when it starts I will go back to being my wife's driver.  I got stuck..er the privilege of being the "greeter" and passing out programs when meetings were being held.  I hate having to be nice and smile and act like I am glad to meet people but I have a good actor so I can fake it.  

Anyway, that is basically an update.  Pretty much same crap different day....  

I was here on the forum when you posted previously.  I have not responded much because I have the impression you maintain basically a passing interest - which is why I am concerned if you have a passionate knowledge of anything.  Myself - I am recently retired as an engineer and scientist in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.  I have pondered that concept of finding answers to truth through "feelings".  Myself, I have difficulty connecting to truth via "feelings" and whenever I hear someone say that they are following their heart - I am sure a train wreck is inevitable. 

So my question is - do you believe you know and understand anything that is "True"?  And if so - how do you know it?  If not - do you even care?

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

57 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I was here on the forum when you posted previously.  I have not responded much because I have the impression you maintain basically a passing interest - which is why I am concerned if you have a passionate knowledge of anything.  Myself - I am recently retired as an engineer and scientist in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.  I have pondered that concept of finding answers to truth through "feelings".  Myself, I have difficulty connecting to truth via "feelings" and whenever I hear someone say that they are following their heart - I am sure a train wreck is inevitable. 

So my question is - do you believe you know and understand anything that is "True"?  And if so - how do you know it?  If not - do you even care?

 

The Traveler

Well I know if I drop something it will fall, that is true.  If I drive my car into a wall, I will get injured or killed, that is true.  If I mix various chemicals, depending on what they are I will get a poison, an explosion, or perhaps nothing.  That is true.  Things I have experienced in my life, I can determine what is true and what is not.

I hear people talk about how they KNOW the church is true, that they KNOW god loves them and answers prayer.  I have no idea if it is true or not.  I do not KNOW that the church is true, I do  know that god has never answered my prayers, and as far as I am concerned I know that if there is a god, he could give a rats butt about us.

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I do  know that god has never answered my prayers

It is possible that God answered but you did not hear. So you don't know this.

8 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I know that if there is a god, he could give a rats butt about us

Logically, you cannot know this unless God has revealed it to you. Which, as you point out, he has not. So you don't know this, either.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I have no idea if it is true or not.  I

A lot of people struggle with the same things you do my friend-you are just brave enough to admit them. I'm praying for you. Hope you find peace. 

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

It is possible that God answered but you did not hear. So you don't know this.

Logically, you cannot know this unless God has revealed it to you. Which, as you point out, he has not. So you don't know this, either.

Well perhaps I should have said, god has never answered my prayers,  this I do know.  I have prayed about health problems, no answer and the problems still get worse.  I prayed about a way to be directed to get the money I need to fix my car before it blows up...and it blows up so I buy another crappy car since I do not have the money to buy a decent one and then pray for money to keep it running so it doesn't blow up...and it blows up...etc etc.  So I do know this.  When I was a kid I used to watch my parents pray for gods help, if nothing happened then according to them god said "No"...if something good happened, even if it had nothing to do with what they were praying about, god answered their prayers.   

[JohnsonJones]

1 minute ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well perhaps I should have said, god has never answered my prayers,  this I do know.  I have prayed about health problems, no answer and the problems still get worse.  I prayed about a way to be directed to get the money I need to fix my car before it blows up...and it blows up so I buy another crappy car since I do not have the money to buy a decent one and then pray for money to keep it running so it doesn't blow up...and it blows up...etc etc.  So I do know this.  When I was a kid I used to watch my parents pray for gods help, if nothing happened then according to them god said "No"...if something good happened, even if it had nothing to do with what they were praying about, god answered their prayers.   

I am one of those that will say I know the Lord lives.  I was blessed to be able to meet him, which sounds crazy to most people (so I don't actually go into that much detail on it, if they think the first part sounds crazy, they probably won't be that receptive to the rest of it.  I think this is also applicable to Joseph Smith where he probably did not say the entire vision to people as he rather knew what type of reaction they may have had).

However, I can understand how hard it can be for someone who has not gotten that type of blessing, especially in this world.  It can be even more difficult when one has an emotional difficulty that they deal with or a medical problem that can hinder them as well.

I have had situations where the blessings were not apparent when looking at them initially.  An example is that I got into a car accident once upon a time.  I do not like paying things on credit and so I bought a used car for $5000 (at the time, that was a pretty decent amount of money).  It could seem as a punishment at first glance.  That winter we had snow like we had not before.  The used car I had gotten needed to have at least enough seats for my family and so I had gotten a suburban where we could barely squeeze in everyone (7 kids is a lot to try to find seats for along with you and your spouse).  The suburban just happened to have 4-wheel drive.  It also had clearance.  As people slip and got stuck in the snow, we were able to make our way around and get to where we needed to go. 

It was several months AFTER the wreck where the blessing became apparent, but only if one could see how it was a blessing.  If we had our old van we would probably have been sliding along with everyone else (and perhaps wrecked it at that point...who knows).  We probably would have gotten stuck with everyone else in the snow.  Instead, we were exceedingly blessed.

It may be that sometimes the things that happen are blessings that are not meant to help us so much as teach us something.  Sometimes they do benefit us, but the benefit is not seen right away. 

With your parents, perhaps it was looking back in retrospect at the things that happened and seeing that they were blessings.  Sometimes, blessings happen and we do not recognize them.

That said, without knowing if one has gotten an answer, it can be tough to continue onwards and doing the actions they have been taught.  I think it is commendable that you are supporting your wife and her beliefs the way you are, even without having the answers that you seek.  It can be a very difficult thing to do when you feel nothing in particular and have not gotten the answers you have sought.

[Vort]

23 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well perhaps I should have said, god has never answered my prayers,  this I do know.

Again, how do you know? Because you didn't hear him? That's like a child saying that he knows his mother didn't call him to come home, because he didn't hear her.

24 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I have prayed about health problems, no answer and the problems still get worse.  I prayed about a way to be directed to get the money I need to fix my car before it blows up...and it blows up so I buy another crappy car since I do not have the money to buy a decent one and then pray for money to keep it running so it doesn't blow up...and it blows up...etc etc.  So I do know this.

God is not a request organization or a wishing well. There is nothing wrong with fervent, sincere prayer asking that some trial or other be lifted, but that doesn't mean that either God lifts to trial or else he doesn't answer. That's a false dichotomy. What if God's answer to your request is "no"? That's an answer, and in many cases the best possible answer.

I would suggest to you, brother, that you worry less about getting what you want from God and instead worry more about connecting with him and finding his hand already there, moving in your life.

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

Again, how do you know? Because you didn't hear him? That's like a child saying that he knows his mother didn't call him to come home, because he didn't hear her.

God is not a request organization or a wishing well. There is nothing wrong with fervent, sincere prayer asking that some trial or other be lifted, but that doesn't mean that either God lifts to trial or else he doesn't answer. That's a false dichotomy. What if God's answer to your request is "no"? That's an answer, and in many cases the best possible answer.

I would suggest to you, brother, that you worry less about getting what you want from God and instead worry more about connecting with him and finding his hand already there, moving in your life.

Well I have made the first step, I prayed... it is up to god if we connect.

[Traveler]

5 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well perhaps I should have said, god has never answered my prayers,  this I do know.    

How do you know this?  Is it simply because you did not get the answer  you wanted?  

Quote

I have prayed about health problems, no answer and the problems still get worse.  I prayed about a way to be directed to get the money I need to fix my car before it blows up...and it blows up so I buy another crappy car since I do not have the money to buy a decent one and then pray for money to keep it running so it doesn't blow up...and it blows up...etc etc.  So I do know this.  When I was a kid I used to watch my parents pray for gods help, if nothing happened then according to them god said "No"...if something good happened, even if it had nothing to do with what they were praying about, god answered their prayers.

You said in a previous post that if you drive you car into a wall - you will be injured or killed.  If you came to understand this through simple logic - my question is why you do expect G-d to change that principle truth of the universe if you so desire.  So you can drive into a wall and not be hurt.  You seem to employ the same logic to your car - you purchase a car that has not been maintained properly and you expect that if you pray that it will not break down?  My car is almost 28 years old.  It runs very well.  I have used it for years to pull a heavy utility trailer for many things.  I perform regular preventive maintenance which means that I do not wait for something to break down before I initiate maintenance.  I know G-d loves me but I also know he expect me to utilize my intelligence and realize that the universe will rain on the righteous as well as the wicked.  I realize that if I do not take care of things - that the second law of thermal dynamics will cause chaos - in short that things will break down.  I utilize this logic to teach my children.

Here are some principles I have learned about G-d.

1. G-d will not do for us what we can do for ourselves.

2. G-d will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

3. G-d will not do for us anything that is detrimental to our eternal salvation.

4. G-d will do for us that which is beneficial to our eternal salvation.

5. G-d will allow us to choose what we will by our Agency.

I would suggest that you are determined to not need G-d or to rely on him - you seem to have done what is important to you without G-d's help.  Why should he answer that which you can get along just fine without his assistance?  It seem logical that to me that G-d has answered your prayers and told you that what you do not need him (he is not necessary) for what you are seeking.

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Well I have made the first step, I prayed... it is up to god if we connect.

Hi Gomez!  I can relate to how you feel.  I don't get the "feelings" that a lot of people talk about.  I don't "feel" the Holy Ghost.  But I KNOW the restored gospel is true.  I used to say, I BELIEVE it is true.  I have since stopped being a coward and admit that my experience with the confirmation of the Holy Ghost is not just a belief but a knowledge.

So, why do I say I KNOW it is true.  The way it happens for me is it is a "clicking of the brain".  It's like pieces of a puzzle that just exist out there... the pieces are good and I know they make my life worthwhile but they just make little pictures - a flower petal here, a leaf there.  Then, there was this one day when I sat down on the beach pondering the apostasy (I was Catholic) and the world freeze-framed and everything around me became crystal clear and the puzzle pieces clicked in my brain and at that moment I saw how all the puzzle pieces fit together and it was like cool water poured onto my hot head... and I got out of it scared because I know now it is true but that means - I have to now act on it.

Anyway, my husband doesn't feel the Spirit like that.  He describes the experience completely differently.  My children describe their experiences very differently too.  But we all come out of it with the same conclusion - now that we know, we have to act.

In your case, I think you're in the "act" mode and just waiting for that confirmation that what you're doing is right.  I would think that would be easier (I'm just seeing you through the internet so I only have a cardboard view of your struggles) - because hindsight is always 20/20 and you've had a lot longer life behind you than ahead of you.  So you can look back and recall when you applied a certain gospel principle and know how your life was better for it.  It's really as simple as that - living our lives with Christ's example as the template so that we may better ourselves and the lives of others around us, and especially raise our children to be good people.  So, look back and see - has it been good?  That just might be how your puzzle pieces will come together.

And about prayer - as @Vort has said, prayer is not an ATM machine or something like that.  Your parents have a good sense of what it is.  Prayer is a way for you to align your Will with God's Will.  It really bugged me when after 9/11 all these people in my ward bore their testimonies saying, "God protected so-and-so and answered his prayer because he didn't die in the WTC" - because it bore to me an implication that those who died on 9/11 was neglected by God.  This is not how prayer works.  In our prayers, we need to ask God to manifest His Will to us so that our desires may align with what He desires for us.  For example - your car is broken and you need money... what I would do in that situation is try to figure out what God's Will for me is - what He would want me to do.  Does He want this experience to be an opportunity for somebody else to exercise charity and give me money... Does He want this experience to be an opportunity for me to learn to sacrifice and give up luxuries to fix the car... Does He want this experience to be an opportunity for me to realize all the blessings I have and thank Him for it, etc. etc.  When we ask God for something in prayer it becomes more of a seeking God's Will for us that we may align our desires to His rather than telling God to align His Will to ours.

Hope this helps.

 

[anatess2]

@Grunt, I see your reply here was from waaaay back in 2017!  I'm pleasantly amazed that you've been here that long.  It seems like yesterday when we jumped for joy at your decision to be baptized.

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

@Grunt, I see your reply here was from waaaay back in 2017!  I'm pleasantly amazed that you've been here that long.  It seems like yesterday when we jumped for joy at your decision to be baptized.

And the Church has been regretting it ever since.

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

16 hours ago, Traveler said:

I would suggest that you are determined to not need G-d or to rely on him - you seem to have done what is important to you without G-d's help.  Why should he answer that which you can get along just fine without his assistance?  It seem logical that to me that G-d has answered your prayers and told you that what you do not need him (he is not necessary) for what you are seeking.

 

The Traveler

I learned from childhood not to depend on god and so yes, I do the best I can on my own.  I do pray, more because it was brainwashed into me to do so, but also on the off chance that someday, somehow it will work.  Till then I plan on continuing to stand on my own with no expected help from anyone, above or below.