Redundant Phrases in the Church


clbent04
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12 hours ago, zil said:

Testimony meeting is the place to testify of the truth.  (period)  It is not the place to tell the story of how you learned the truth, or of how it was most-recently demonstrated in your life.

Even though I'm in general agreement with you on this topic, I think I disagree with the above statement. What is a "testimony"? It is a witness. How you receive that witness is often a part of the witness itself. When people bear testimony, that testimony often includes the circumstances of the revelation. I personally think that's completely appropriate. Testimony meeting is not story time, nor is it a chance to preach personal philosophy to a captive audience. But telling of the revelation of God to one's spirit and the circumstances surrounding that revelation seems to me to be the very essence of what we're after in testimony meeting.

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Even though I'm in general agreement with you on this topic, I think I disagree with the above statement. What is a "testimony"? It is a witness. How you receive that witness is often a part of the witness itself. When people bear testimony, that testimony often includes the circumstances of the revelation. I personally think that's completely appropriate. Testimony meeting is not story time, nor is it a chance to preach personal philosophy to a captive audience. But telling of the revelation of God to one's spirit and the circumstances surrounding that revelation seems to me to be the very essence of what we're after in testimony meeting.

I could buy that.  I guess I'm too used to the 10-minute story about "that time at the cabin with big brother" followed by something about how God loves us, amen - where the story has no apparent relevance to the testimony - so I kind of over-react when people start telling tales.

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15 minutes ago, zil said:

I could buy that.  I guess I'm too used to the 10-minute story about "that time at the cabin with big brother" followed by something about how God loves us, amen - where the story has no apparent relevance to the testimony - so I kind of over-react when people start telling tales.

My first Fast Day today.  Most of the testimony I heard was just people thanking the church and the members for allowing them to be part of it.   

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I was rather bothered by people who simply asked for a "blanket blessing" such as "please bless our family and friends with whatever..." So I figured I can't change them.  But I can change how I pray.  So I made it a policy to think about every person that I could think of and determine if they needed anything.  And I'd just ask for blessings for those individuals who really needed something.

Soon I began realizing that I didn't really know everyone well enough to determine who really needed what.  But I did the best I could.

Later there was a period in my life where at least a dozen households I knew of we're going through life-changing trials.  Then there were others who he  some difficulties that weren't so severe. When I knelt to pray that really weighed heavily on me.  I simply couldn't bring myself to utter a separate sentence for each person.  I felt overwhelmed. It would really take about a fifteen minute prayer to give what I thought would be a complete prayer, and that was just to mention each of them.  That may not seem a lots in the grand scheme.  But I don't just pray once a day. I say multiple such prayers each day.

So I gave the "blanket prayer".  It sounded just like the same boring prayer that everyone says when they don't really mean it.  But I really meant it.

Then it occurred to me.  How do I really know if others mean it or not? I had to admit that I don't.

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Seriously why are we worried about what phrases people use?  I have enough problems in my own life to worry about whether someone may or not be saying something that is perceived as redundant or without meaning.  I give people credit for even getting up to share their testimony or to give a prayer in church.  It's not easy for a lot of people.

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1 minute ago, pam said:

Seriously why are we worried about what phrases people use?  I have enough problems in my own life to worry about whether someone may or not be saying something that is perceived as redundant or without meaning.  I give people credit for even getting up to share their testimony or to give a prayer in church.  It's not easy for a lot of people.

Thank you.  One of the things I really like about the church thus far is how people seem to be in VERY different places, yet they don't seem to be judgemental about it.

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Just now, Grunt said:

Thank you.  One of the things I really like about the church thus far is how people seem to be in VERY different places, yet they don't seem to be judgemental about it.

People in the Church are in different places both mentally and spiritually.  I've been a member my entire life but that doesn't mean a hill of beans really.  I've still got a lot to learn.  We just have to remember that people are in different places and shouldn't judge.

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, pam said:

Seriously why are we worried about what phrases people use?  I have enough problems in my own life to worry about whether someone may or not be saying something that is perceived as redundant or without meaning.  I give people credit for even getting up to share their testimony or to give a prayer in church.  It's not easy for a lot of people.

Yup. 

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1 hour ago, pam said:

Seriously why are we worried about what phrases people use?  I have enough problems in my own life to worry about whether someone may or not be saying something that is perceived as redundant or without meaning.  I give people credit for even getting up to share their testimony or to give a prayer in church.  It's not easy for a lot of people.

@pam @MormonGator @Jane_Doe @Grunt So nice to know I'm the only one judgmental out of this group. I have all of you to look up to. Even if this isn't your pet peeve, can we not all relate to being perturbed by something we might place judgement on?  And if that pet peeve bothers you enough, might you be prompted to discuss it with others?  I'm guilty here.  So forgive me if sometimes I reveal through my posts that I much less than a perfect person.  The intention of posting this topic was to address what I think is a cultural issue in the Church that I would like to see change, but I understand how you would interpret it as nothing more than judgmental and nit picky

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12 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

@pam @MormonGator @Jane_Doe @Grunt So nice to know I'm the only one judgmental out of this group. I have all of you to look up to. Even if this isn't your pet peeve, can we not all relate to being perturbed by something we might place judgement on?  And if that pet peeve bothers you enough, might you be prompted to discuss it with others?  I'm guilty here.  So forgive me if sometimes I reveal through my posts that I much less than a perfect person.  The intention of posting this topic was to address what I think is a cultural issue in the Church that I would like to see change, but I understand how you would interpret it as nothing more than judgmental and nit picky

I've been guilty of this exact same pet peeve, judging, and murmuring on it.  Frankly, repenting of that was a very humbling and hard experience.  Yes, it is annoying.  But we really need to look past our own iteration and love people regardless.  

 

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People say what they're used to hearing. That begins in early childhood and lasts throughout life.

When I was young, I commonly heard people bear testimony about how they "knew with every fiber of [their] being" that such-and-such principle was true. I wondered about our fibrous beings, and pondered how individual fibers might gain knowledge about some certain principle. I may well have used that very phrase at some point. But at some point, certainly by the time I was a teenager, I decided it was just a "stock phrase" that people pulled out to express the idea of revelation. I decided it was hyperbole. I decided never to use that particular phrase, unless I could say it as a literal truth.

But see, that's just me. Other people would say it, and would mean it perfectly sincerely, if not literally, understanding it as an expression rather than as a literal description. And still others might well say it as a literal truth. Who am I to say?

But take care. If you decide to watch your words carefully and try too hard to avoid hyperbole and speak your mind precisely, you are liable to end up sounding like Vort. And let's face it, no one wants that.

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10 hours ago, clbent04 said:

but I understand how you would interpret it as nothing more than judgmental and nit picky

Not really.  I absolutely understand where you're coming from.  But you have to understand what the dynamic of this conversation really was.

  1. You stated your frustration (which BTW, many here share).
  2. You plead for people to stop it.  Most of whom aren't on this forum (see @MormonGator's post).
  3. They're not here, and we can't change them.  
  4. The natural reaction was to try to help you deal with it.
  5. In my mind, your complaint was really a question of "How do I deal with this?"

The way to deal with it would be: Don't be so judgmental.

That is the correct answer.  It doesn't mean we're not guilty of it as well.  It's just the answer to that question.  Just because I say it is wrong to get upset at little things does not mean I don't do that as well.  I'm just stating what the commandments are.

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10 hours ago, Vort said:

But take care. If you decide to watch your words carefully and try too hard to avoid hyperbole and speak your mind precisely, you are liable to end up sounding like Vort. And let's face it, no one wants that.

I want to sound like Vort when I grow up.:D

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Dude, I can not tell you how often I've heard people say that to me. It's tough being a role model to thousands. 

No pedestal is high enough to describe how much of a hero you are to me.  (Take that how you want to :P).

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This isn't necessarily a redundant phrase I hear in the Church, but rather a redundancy of sentence structuring, i.e., the referencing of two ideas in a sentence as either the former or the latter.

Example:  Martha had two tasks but was unsure which to do first: read her scriptures or say her prayers.  She decided on the former.

Maybe it's just me, but I read and hear this all the time in the Church.  I read a lot of literature outside the Church too, and the usage isn't near as high as it is in the Church.  Just a weird thing to be culturalized

Edited by clbent04
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