Redundant Phrases in the Church

[Vort]

21 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

To understand my use (or misuse) of the term "open-ended statement", replace every instance of my usage of "open-ended statement" with "statement that requires a reference set" 

As I tried to explain before, every statement requires a reference set. Otherwise, communication is not possible.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

As I tried to explain before, every statement requires a reference set. Otherwise, communication is not possible.

I was once a snotty, skeptical college freshmen who knew everything. A professor shot me down once by saying "Even the most ardent skeptic has to believe his words have meaning, or else communication would not be possible." 

 

[Vort]

clbent, the point is not to pile on you. Rather, the point is that your insistence that this or that term shouldn't be used in the Church is unrealistic and unproductive. Worse, it seems to betray an attitude that you know better and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. It would be much more profitable for you to ask for clarification and work to get insight, instead of telling everyone else that they're wrong.

[clbent04]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

As I tried to explain before, every statement requires a reference set. Otherwise, communication is not possible.

And the tears start rolling...

[Guest MormonGator]

19 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

From other posts it seems we can say he is a teenager...  And has a serious case of "I know everything and adults are stupid"...  Sadly this is a common aliment and most of us can say we have had it to some degree ourselves.  Time and experience are really the only cures. 

So true. So, so true. Sometimes I just cringe when I remember how I acted as a younger man. And I'm only in my mid 30's, so I'm not an old guy like @estradling75 or a really old guy like @mirkwood

Edited August 9, 2017 by MormonGator

[clbent04]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

clbent, the point is not to pile on you. Rather, the point is that your insistence that this or that term shouldn't be used in the Church is unrealistic and unproductive. Worse, it seems to betray an attitude that you know better and everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. It would be much more profitable for you to ask for clarification and work to get insight, instead of telling everyone else that they're wrong.

I only said you're wrong when you were trying to equate "the rifle shoots true" with "the Church is true", which is very obvious to me why one is more of a stand alone statement than the other, but apparently I'm not using the right terminology to describe why, and you're not able to infer what it is I'm describing, or maybe you are able to infer and it still doesn't make sense to you. Whatever the case my be, I think we've brain powered this particular point enough. Thanks at least for trying

[clbent04]

38 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Do you even understand how language works?!@?!?!@#?@#$

Honestly my head is still spinning from having to phrase and rephrase everything upon hearing from @Vort that I wasn't using the correct terminology.  I'm not even sure if my last attempt of trying to describe what I was saying makes sense, or if it just turned out to be more convoluted from all the correction attempts

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I only said you're wrong when you were trying to equate "the rifle shoots true" with "the Church is true", which is very obvious to me why one is more of a stand alone statement than the other, but apparently I'm not using the right terminology to describe why, and you're not able to infer what it is I'm describing, or maybe you are able to infer and it still doesn't make sense to you. Whatever the case my be, I think we've brain powered this particular point enough. Thanks at least for trying

Not sure what to tell you. I thought it was clear, but obviously it wasn't clear to you. Another example of needing shared linguistic symbols to communicate, I guess.

[clbent04]

33 minutes ago, Armin said:

Quite frankly, all you say makes sense to me - or is it that we are just kindred spirits in not using the correct terminology...?

@Armin thank you! this just made my day. I thought I was loosing my mind there for a second like I was speaking in tongues without an interpreter present to help translate

Edited August 10, 2017 by clbent04

[Fooslord]

On 8/6/2017 at 6:25 AM, zil said:

"Actually, it's not.  Testimony meeting is the place to testify of the truth.  (period) "

Can you cite the doctrinal reference for this please? I am really interested where it says that a Testimony meeting " is not the place to tell the story of how you learned the truth, or of how it was most-recently demonstrated in your life."

[NeuroTypical]

Doctrinal reference?  I've got this - I don't think anything specifically appears in scripture.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/10/bearing-testimony?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/06/the-what-and-why-and-how-of-bearing-a-testimony?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/youth/article/questions-about-bearing-your-testimony?lang=eng

 

And of course, the "keep your kids away from the dang microphone" letter that nobody remembers:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/first-presidency-letter-testimonies-in-fast-and-testimony-meeting?lang=eng&_r=1

[Mike]

At this time we'd like to "turn the time over" to the Bishop for some Ward "business". 

[Guest]

On 8/12/2017 at 8:00 AM, NeuroTypical said:

And of course, the "keep your kids away from the dang microphone" letter that nobody remembers:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/first-presidency-letter-testimonies-in-fast-and-testimony-meeting?lang=eng&_r=1

How long are you going to hold this over my head!?!?  I told you.  I'm sorry!  I didn't mean to!

[Guest]

Our family just had a lesson about making prayers more meaningful and less repetitive.  One of the suggestions was to be specific.

e.g. Instead of "we thank the for our food" specify the food that you have.  "We thank thee for the roast chicken that Mom took the time to make this evening."

So, I was just saying a prayer over my lunch.  Uhmmm.  Well... I... uh... I don't know what this is.  There really is no name for it.  So, I said,"I thank thee for this...  ...  ...  food (metaphorically kicking myself for not being able to be more specific)."

Edited August 14, 2017 by Guest

[NeuroTypical]

I take great comfort with the understanding that God knows my heart, even if I stumble over the words.  

[Guest]

Perhaps if we simply increased our vocabulary to make the same phrases sound different, it would appease people like @clbent04.

BTW, he's holding an e-cigarette made to look like a real cigarette.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Guest

[clbent04]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Perhaps if we simply increased our vocabulary to make the same phrases sound different, it would appease people like @clbent04.

Ha! As long as it's spoken sincerely and thoughtfully.

PS who here wants to see @Carborendum post a YouTube video of him reenacting John Branyan's 3 Little Pigs monologue? +1 for me

Edited August 15, 2017 by clbent04

[Guest]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Ha! As long as it's spoken sincerely and thoughtfully.

PS who here wants to see @Carborendum post a YouTube video of him reenacting John Branyan's 3 Little Pigs monologue? +1 for me

Actually, I AM John Branyan.

Just kidding.  

I did reenact it for my family when the power went out the other night.  We had a guest over as well.  I am actually pretty good at impressions and accents.  I was a born thespian.  But I just didn't see a future in it.  So, only my friends and family get to see the dramatic talent that is Carborendum.

[clbent04]

@Vort I figured enough time has passed where I can ask you this. Were you messing with me in this thread by pretending you didn't understand what I was saying and having me rephrase everything over and over again? You almost had me commit myself to the looney bin. Be honest now. God is watching. 2 Nephi 9:34

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

@Vort I figured enough time has passed where I can ask you this. Were you messing with me in this thread by pretending you didn't understand what I was saying and having me rephrase everything over and over again? You almost had me commit myself to the looney bin. Be honest now. God is watching. 2 Nephi 9:34

Nope, clbent, not at all. I do occasionally mess with people, but I've learned to be pretty open and broad about that to avoid misunderstanding. I was not messing with you. I was sincere. I thought, and still think, that saying "the Church is true" and "the gun fires true" are similar, and that the latter is a perfectly reasonable illustration of the veracity of meaning of the former.

[clbent04]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Nope, clbent, not at all. I do occasionally mess with people, but I've learned to be pretty open and broad about that to avoid misunderstanding. I was not messing with you. I was sincere. I thought, and still think, that saying "the Church is true" and "the gun fires true" are similar, and that the latter is a perfectly reasonable illustration of the veracity of meaning of the former.

You just did a double whammy on me right there by bringing up that analogy again AND using the former/latter referencing. Well played

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

You just did a double whammy on me right there by bringing up that analogy again AND using the former/latter referencing. Well played

[clbent04]

28 minutes ago, Vort said:

And I still don't know if you're messing with me! @Vort you're either a sly fox or Sheriff Woody in the flesh!

[zil]

8 hours ago, clbent04 said:

You just did a double whammy on me right there by bringing up that analogy again AND using the former/latter referencing. Well played

What does this mean?  Does it mean you don't like it, that you don't understand it, that you don't agree, that....?

8 hours ago, Vort said:

.... I thought, and still think, that saying "the Church is true" and "the gun fires true" are similar, and that the latter is a perfectly reasonable illustration of the veracity of meaning of the former.

This seems perfectly clear to me, and entirely accurate .  I don't comprehend the problem, unless it's generational and they don't teach this use of "true" anymore (though it's still in the dictionary).

[Guest]

On 8/21/2017 at 0:32 AM, clbent04 said:

And I still don't know if you're messing with me! @Vort you're either a sly fox or Sheriff Woody in the flesh!

I told you that former/latter thing really is pretty common among more educated people.  And you have a lot of said individuals on this forum.  Vort is probably foremost among them.