My Journey with the Church

[zil]

@clbent04, I don't know if this will help you, but it keeps coming to mind, so I'll repeat it here in case it will help you.  Some years ago, I recognized that there was something I wanted which was simply not right.  But how do you rid yourself of a desire?  Self-control by sheer will power will only work for behavior and only for so long when you want something else.  Since I could think of nothing else, I determined that I would include in literally every prayer I said a request that the desire be taken away.  And then I got up and did the best I knew to obey the gospel as I understood it (I did the Sunday School answers with the best intent I could muster).  It took about 2 years for me to notice any difference - by that time, I wasn't looking for any difference, I was just doing my best, following the routine I'd established.  It came as a surprise how much my heart had changed.  It wasn't me who changed my heart - I still couldn't begin to tell you how to do that.  It was Christ.

If you haven't done that, I recommend you start right now and continue for however many years it takes.

A lot of all the other stuff you've been saying in this thread and others is seriously Satan's lies and deceits designed exclusively to get you to give up hope.  Christ has said that as often as we repent, he will forgive.  The difference between Celestial and non-Celestial beings is that the Celestial beings kept repenting and the non-Celestial beings gave up.  Don't give up.  You don't have to obtain mastery of every weakness in this life - that would be a cruel joke as none of us will succeed at that.  I am 100% convinced you will have as long as you need to obtain mastery - or as long as you need to give up once and for all and condemn yourself to a lesser kingdom.  Which of these you choose is up to you.

When I said to tell Satan to take a hike, I meant it literally.  If you are alone (or with those who could appropriately hear it), say it out loud and invoke Christ's name as your point of authority.  If you are among others, simply say it in your mind.  Kick him out.

(There are lots of other things you need, but you cannot possibly do this without Christ changing your desires and without kicking Satan out.)

Edited August 10, 2017 by zil
ETA: Every private prayer (in case that wasn't obvious)

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

If it's true that I didn't have to overcome my problem with pornography 100 percent (assuming I made a faithful effort to the end), that would give me hope.  But the conclusions I've come to just don't allow me to believe it.  The powers of eternal procreation are too sacred to entrust to someone who hasn't mastered the skill of sexual self-control in this life.

I think this attitude might well be feeding into your problems with pornography.  It is the whole shame cycle.  When you have a problem with pornography, you feel shame, and that actually pushes you towards your addiction rather than away from it.  This is a well documented phenomenon.

You need to give yourself a break!

Let's say you repent and are clean for awhile.  In this state, you are fully eligible to go to the Celestial Kingdom.  Let's say, after a year of being clean, you have a relapse.  What then?  Well, what you do is go to the bishop and tell him, "I had a relapse".  The second you did this, you are back to being fully eligible to go to the Celestial Kingdom.  It doesn't matter if you have hit yet another relapse in a long-term struggle.  You need to see it more from the perspective that you sinned in the relapse, and you need to fix that one little relapse to be back worthy again and to return to your status of having conquered the sin, rather than "I have made no progress at all because I relapsed!"

Does this make sense? 

The people who miss the Celestial Kingdom over pornography are not the ones who are trying their best to repent, work with their leaders, and escape their addiction.  If they keep going, these people will be fully healed in this life or the next of their addiction and will be eligible to go to the Celestial Kingdom.

 No, the people who are at risk are the ones who are trying to cover their sins and who utterly refuse to repent, or the ones who decide it is too hard and give up.

Edited August 10, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[clbent04]

2 hours ago, zil said:

@clbent04, I don't know if this will help you, but it keeps coming to mind, so I'll repeat it here in case it will help you.  Some years ago, I recognized that there was something I wanted which was simply not right.  But how do you rid yourself of a desire?  Self-control by sheer will power will only work for behavior and only for so long when you want something else.  Since I could think of nothing else, I determined that I would include in literally every prayer I said a request that the desire be taken away.  And then I got up and did the best I knew to obey the gospel as I understood it (I did the Sunday School answers with the best intent I could muster).  It took about 2 years for me to notice any difference - by that time, I wasn't looking for any difference, I was just doing my best, following the routine I'd established.  It came as a surprise how much my heart had changed.  It wasn't me who changed my heart - I still couldn't begin to tell you how to do that.  It was Christ.

If you haven't done that, I recommend you start right now and continue for however many years it takes.

A lot of all the other stuff you've been saying in this thread and others is seriously Satan's lies and deceits designed exclusively to get you to give up hope.  Christ has said that as often as we repent, he will forgive.  The difference between Celestial and non-Celestial beings is that the Celestial beings kept repenting and the non-Celestial beings gave up.  Don't give up.  You don't have to obtain mastery of every weakness in this life - that would be a cruel joke as none of us will succeed at that.  I am 100% convinced you will have as long as you need to obtain mastery - or as long as you need to give up once and for all and condemn yourself to a lesser kingdom.  Which of these you choose is up to you.

When I said to tell Satan to take a hike, I meant it literally.  If you are alone (or with those who could appropriately hear it), say it out loud and invoke Christ's name as your point of authority.  If you are among others, simply say it in your mind.  Kick him out.

(There are lots of other things you need, but you cannot possibly do this without Christ changing your desires and without kicking Satan out.)

@zil thanks for writing this. I haven't really thought about how me giving up going to church and no longer making an effort is more problematic than whether or not I can obtain mastery of no longer looking at pornography.  But they way you said it seems to make sense to me

[clbent04]

2 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

Let's say you repent and are clean for awhile.  In this state, you are fully eligible to go to the Celestial Kingdom.  Let's say, after a year of being clean, you have a relapse.  What then?  Well, what you do is go to the bishop and tell him, "I had a relapse".  The second you did this, you are back to being fully eligible to go to the Celestial Kingdom.  It doesn't matter if you have hit yet another relapse in a long-term struggle.  You need to see it more from the perspective that you sinned in the relapse, and you need to fix that one little relapse to be back worthy again and to return to your status of having conquered the sin, rather than "I have made no progress at all because I relapsed!"

My problem could very well be I thought I knew enough about the gospel and who I am, and made untrue assumptions.  After observing 20 years of unchanged behavior paired with my own understanding (or lack of understanding) of how serious the Lord treats violations to the Law of Chastity, the only answer that made sense to me was to just give up

[Sunday21]

24 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

My problem could very well be I thought I knew enough about the gospel and who I am, and made untrue assumptions.  After observing 20 years of unchanged behavior paired with my own understanding (or lack of understanding) of how serious the Lord treats violations to the Law of Chastity, the only answer that made sense to me was to just give up

No I don't think that you should give up. This tendency can be very hard to break. Many great people also have quite troubling flaws. I would pray about this morning and night. Perhaps try the technological aids that people have suggested. Have you put your name on the prayer roll at the temple? You can do this by emailing the temple. Don't give up! 

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

No I don't think that you should give up. This tendency can be very hard to break. Many great people also have quite troubling flaws. I would pray about this morning and night. Perhaps try the technological aids that people have suggested. Have you put your name on the prayer roll at the temple? You can do this by emailing the temple. Don't give up! 

I spoke with my wife tonight about implementing a weekly check-up on me.  I never hide anything from her, so I don't think a computer monitoring program would be necessary. Maybe if I also found a support group that would be good. I just haven't found any yet. I live in the north Phoenix, Arizona area if anyone knows of any. Porn-addiction support groups appear to not really be a popular thing right now. I can see why since the thought admitting your porn-addition habits to a group of strangers is awkward. Much less awkward to tell someone about your alcohol problem

Edited August 11, 2017 by clbent04

[clbent04]

In my mind, this is how it plays out if I go back to church.  First things first, meet with the bishop.  I have absolutely zero issue with being completely open and honest with confessing my sins to a bishop.  Only problem is, I've done it so many times now it's lost it's effect on me.  I used to always get that fresh start, hopeful feeling after confessing. However, after so many times of not meeting my goal, it has dulled me into not being able to have that fresh-start feeling anymore. Instead, I'm just left with a feeling of despair that I will be back in the bishop's office in a couple weeks having failed once more.  The despair seems insurmountable

Edited August 11, 2017 by clbent04

[seashmore]

2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I spoke with my wife tonight about implementing a weekly check-up on me.  I never hide anything from her, so I don't think a computer monitoring program would be necessary. Maybe if I also found a support group that would be good. I just haven't found any yet. I live in the north Phoenix, Arizona area if anyone knows of any. Porn-addiction support groups appear to not really be a popular thing right now. I can see why since the thought admitting your porn-addition habits to a group of strangers is awkward. Much less awkward to tell someone about your alcohol problem

If I'm not mistaken, the Church's Addiction Recovery Program is for all addictions. There should be ARP missionaries in the Phoenix area. Your bishop can help you contact them. If not, I think the manual is available online and can help motivate you.

"Whenever you have a bad thought about yourself, tell it to go to hell, for that is exactly where it came from." Falsely attributed to Brigham Young, and I don't know who did say it, but it seems doctrinally sound to me. When I struggle with progressing and want to give up, I try to  envision Elder Holland, with all the fervor in his heart, saying at General Conference, "Don't you quit."

[JohnsonJones]

What I'm about to say is going to be VERY unpopular in this thread.

1. Stop worrying as much about your addiction.  This is self destructive.  The more you focus on it, the worse it may become.

2. There is another item that seems to go along with the sin of pornography.  I have never met a young man that only suffers from the sin of pornography.  Stop worrying about that sin as much as well.

3. How serious is the sin of smoking?  How serious is the sin of drinking alcohol?  Your sin is somewhere along those lines.  Just like those are addictions, you also have an addiction.

4.  Some go their entire lives without ever breaking their addictions.  Just because one smokes and drinks does not mean they are a bad person.  The same goes for someone suffering from other addictions.

5.  We, as Mormons, seem to think an addiction of the sort described in this thread is a very serious sin.  It is not.  It is against the sins in the beatitudes, which also include such sins as calling your brother a fool being akin to murder.  Pride, and other such sins are just as bad, if not worse in some contexts.  It depends on what sin one wants to focus on.  Too often the focal point is on this sin, to the detriment of members and memberships all over the church.  Because of how many people view it, we have chased off many from the LDS church.  Because of how we view it, and hence how THEY VIEW themselves, they fall away, just like you did for a while.

6.  I see this as a serious problem in the church.  We are too judgmental in regards to this ONE sin, which is actually a very minor sin.  If one is stressing over such a minor sin, they need to reflect in their lives and see the beam in their own eye before casting judgment on another.

7.  I once again, want to stress just how minor a sin this actually is.  It is akin to not being meek, or not being poor in heart. 

8.  That said, there are some things I'd like to point out about it.  First off, it was either John Taylor or Wilford Woodruff that had a vision.  In that vision he went through cities and found a great illness there.  Every house seemed to have suffered from it, and a great reek came from them.  It was a plague on the land like no one had seen before. 

I feel that he saw a vision of the great and terrible plague of pornography that is upon us today.  I think it is a plague on this land and that every family has been affected by it in some way, either directly, or indirectly through some relative (even if it's just a cousin, or uncle, or aunt).

9.  It is a minor sin, but as it is an addiction, it is much like other addictions.  Just like if you were a full time alcoholic or smoker, you may have some restraints on you in what you might be able to do or not, depending on how the ward and bishop see it.

10.  I can't tell you exact numbers...but I will say this.  Official tallies in secular publications figure that 95% of all men do a certain sin.  Because of that, most non-members will say that men in the LDS church are either telling the truth and get feeling guilty and out of the church...OR lie through their teeth.  In my experience, I can't say that those numbers hold up in the church (or maybe I've just been lied to an awfully lot)...BUT...I'd say...if you look around, there is a VERY high percentage of people (and that also includes woman) that suffer from the same problem that you do.  In fact, if you refer to point 8, it is SO PREVALENT, that I'd say this seems very much like that plague they saw in the vision.  It is excessively prevalent in the LDS church...not like the secular numbers say, but it is high enough that I'd say EVERY family has been affected by it in some way either directly in their family or by a relative to their family.  You are NOT alone in this suffering.

11.  There are many that have felt the exact same way you have.  MANY.  I have seen what has happened in their lives.  I can tell you...there actually IS hope.

12.  Just like any addiction, if you really want to get over it, you will need support from others.  You will need help.  The church offers help, but you may need more than just that.  It may take commitment and a life-long struggle.  However, with help, you can overcome.

Conclusion: What I'm trying to say, is you are NOT alone in suffering through this in the LDS church.  IT isn't something you can simply toss off and ignore, but at the same time, you may be putting it higher on the lists of sins then it actually is (which is VERY common).  There IS hope, even if you feel there is not.  YOU CAN OVERCOME, but it probably requires help (and a LOT OF IT) from others, not the least of, is the Lord.  Don't let this be the reason you do not come to church.  This is a very minor reason not to come, and the Lord would much rather you come to church than to feel so terrible that you do not.  If people try to shame you (just like they might if they smelled the smoke of a smoker on them) the sin is on their heads, not yours, if you are truly making an effort to come to church and to repent of your sins. 

You may not succeed today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or the next year, or the next decade, or even in this life (and I've known those who are alcoholics and smokers as well who never overcome the addiction), but with the Lord's help, I know if you are determined to succeed, you can eventually overcome.

Whatever else though, don't let such a MINOR thing become such a major stumbling block to your salvation.  Go to church, obey the commandments the best you can, love your family, pay your tithing, teach your children the word of the Lord, and do all you can to be the best you can be.  Don't ever think that such a thing should stop you from going to church, or that the might of the Lord can't extend the blessings of forgiveness to you if you are truly trying and desire such blessings.

Edited August 11, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, seashmore said:

If I'm not mistaken, the Church's Addiction Recovery Program is for all addictions. There should be ARP missionaries in the Phoenix area. Your bishop can help you contact them. If not, I think the manual is available online and can help motivate you.

"Whenever you have a bad thought about yourself, tell it to go to hell, for that is exactly where it came from." Falsely attributed to Brigham Young, and I don't know who did say it, but it seems doctrinally sound to me. When I struggle with progressing and want to give up, I try to  envision Elder Holland, with all the fervor in his heart, saying at General Conference, "Don't you quit."

Most wards and stakes have an addiction recovery program that is open to any who wish to attend.

[Midwest LDS]

I understand @clbent04. I still reccomend the program I suggested mainly because I was at your level of personal frustration when I found it. I was always open and honest with my wife (even before we got married) just like you. This particular program though doesn't do a weekly report. It sends an instant alert the second you search for anything inappropriate. It was like having my wife right next to me wherever I was on the internet. Knowing she would see what I was watching or looking at the second I entered it in gave me strength I never had before to do something else. Just a thought as I truly feel for you. But keep trying brother. When it comes to our eternal salvation it's better to die trying on our feet than live in despair on our knees. Better to leave this world trying to overcome your sins and weaknesses even if you keep failing than to leave this world having given up. God be with you in your trial brother.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Midwest LDS
Clarification

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I spoke with my wife tonight about implementing a weekly check-up on me.  I never hide anything from her, so I don't think a computer monitoring program would be necessary. Maybe if I also found a support group that would be good. I just haven't found any yet. I live in the north Phoenix, Arizona area if anyone knows of any. Porn-addiction support groups appear to not really be a popular thing right now. I can see why since the thought admitting your porn-addition habits to a group of strangers is awkward. Much less awkward to tell someone about your alcohol problem

A computer monitoring program IS necessary.  You're making excuses to yourself to not take the steps you need.  You're an addict.

[zil]

2 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

It sends an instant alert the second you search for anything inappropriate. It was like having my wife right next to me wherever I was on the internet. Knowing she would see what I was watching or looking at the second I entered it in gave me strength I never had before to do something else.

And if that helps motivate you, consider this from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six, 1843-44, Pg. 325 (emphasis mine):

Quote

The spirits of the just are exalted to a greater and more glorious work; hence they are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits.  Enveloped in flaming fire, they are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and motions, and are often pained therewith.

So, you know, imagine your dear, departed granny (or mother, or whoever) is right there, watching what you're doing...

[askandanswer]

On 11/08/2017 at 7:48 AM, zil said:

.  Some years ago, I recognized that there was something I wanted which was simply not right.  But how do you rid yourself of a desire?  Self-control by sheer will power will only work for behavior and only for so long when you want something else.  Since I could think of nothing else, I determined that I would include in literally every prayer I said a request that the desire be taken away. 

Dear @zil your'e right, this was indeed an unrighteous desire - I'm already married and polygamy is illegal in Australia. However, don't despair - if things change, your number 11,749 on the list. 

[clbent04]

I attended church today for the first time in 2-3 years. Baby Madi came along too. Almost made it through the 3 hours, but I ran out of formula during the third hour and brought her back home.

Went back to church later in the day to meet with the bishop. Told him where I'm at and where I'd like to be.

Anyway, mostly just wanted to say thanks to everyone for helping me get engaged again talking about the gospel. I guarantee if I didn't find this website, there's no way I would've attended church today. This website sparked my interest in the gospel and giving it another shot. It's reminded me what I love and have missed out on in the church for quite some time now

Edited August 20, 2017 by clbent04

[Midwest LDS]

@clbent04That's great welcome back!

[Suzie]

@clbent04 welcome and thanks for sharing your story.