Rob Osborn

Loveloudfest and LDS approval?

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This was brought up in another post and I looked into it and I am somewhat torn about by what appears to be public support by the LDS church  http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-love-loud-festival into an organization's fundraising  https://loveloudfest.com which benefits go to organizations that use childrens cartoons that push the LGBT agenda onto unsuspecting children https://www.glaad.org/blog/legend-korra-turf-wars-and-importance-all-ages-lgbtq-inclusive-programming  and support and condone same sex marriage. http://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/entry/marriage-equality-champion-edie-windsor-to-be-honored-with-our-icon-award-a

The problem with supporting ones "aim" is that on the surface it appears to be a great cause but the underlying tentacles wrap deep into immorality and its agendas are those diametrically opposed by the church. 

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Apparently you have a hard time seeing what's there instead of what you think is there.  The statement didn't actually express any support at all for that group.  But they did it (or didn't do it, as the case may be) in a way that won't offend supporters of said group.  I think they call that subtlety.

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8 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

This was brought up in another post and I looked into it and I am somewhat torn about by what appears to be public support by the LDS church  http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-love-loud-festival into an organization's fundraising  https://loveloudfest.com which benefits go to organizations that use childrens cartoons that push the LGBT agenda onto unsuspecting children https://www.glaad.org/blog/legend-korra-turf-wars-and-importance-all-ages-lgbtq-inclusive-programming  and support and condone same sex marriage. http://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/entry/marriage-equality-champion-edie-windsor-to-be-honored-with-our-icon-award-a

The problem with supporting ones "aim" is that on the surface it appears to be a great cause but the underlying tentacles wrap deep into immorality and its agendas are those diametrically opposed by the church. 

I think the Church is expressing support for the event's aim, which is to prevent teen suicide among this vulnerable population. I think she is expressing this in good faith on an area of common interest. I do not take it as support for immortal behavior or anything that runs contrary to Church teachings.

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8 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

This was brought up in another post and I looked into it and I am somewhat torn about by what appears to be public support by the LDS church  http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-love-loud-festival into an organization's fundraising  https://loveloudfest.com which benefits go to organizations that use childrens cartoons that push the LGBT agenda onto unsuspecting children https://www.glaad.org/blog/legend-korra-turf-wars-and-importance-all-ages-lgbtq-inclusive-programming  and support and condone same sex marriage. http://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/entry/marriage-equality-champion-edie-windsor-to-be-honored-with-our-icon-award-a

The problem with supporting ones "aim" is that on the surface it appears to be a great cause but the underlying tentacles wrap deep into immorality and its agendas are those diametrically opposed by the church. 

So, it is bad to find something good in other people that you don't completely agree with?

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33 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think the Church is expressing support for the event's aim, which is to prevent teen suicide among this vulnerable population. I think she is expressing this in good faith on an area of common interest. I do not take it as support for immortal behavior or anything that runs contrary to Church teachings.

Perhaps so. A PR move by the church maybe?

Im all for preventing suicide, especially in the youth. I just worry that this kind of support sends the wrong message into them thinking we are making headway into supporting their ideals.

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3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

So, it is bad to find something good in other people that you don't completely agree with?

It depends on what exactly the perceived intent is. Its sad that many will wrongly think the church is starting to support the LGBT agenda. And, Im torn because support for these kind of organizations is more of a PR move that sends the wrong message.

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2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It depends on what exactly the perceived intent is. Its sad that many will wrongly think the church is starting to support the LGBT agenda. And, Im torn because support for these kind of organizations is more of a PR move that sends the wrong message.

People have always inferred the wrong message from almost anything we say.  I don't see how this is any different.

The bottom line is that the Church offered a compliment to another party because of something that these folks are doing that is good.  It doesn't mean the Church supports everything else they do.  It never will.

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10 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It depends on what exactly the perceived intent is. Its sad that many will wrongly think the church is starting to support the LGBT agenda. And, Im torn because support for these kind of organizations is more of a PR move that sends the wrong message.

The concert's aim is explicitly to prevent youth suicide.  That is 100% in line with church teaching.  

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

People have always inferred the wrong message from almost anything we say.  I don't see how this is any different.

The bottom line is that the Church offered a compliment to another party because of something that these folks are doing that is good.  It doesn't mean the Church supports everything else they do.  It never will.

I just feel its a bad move. People are going to see this as a type of endorsement for Loveloudfest which, as far as I can tell, from its organizer is about forcing the issue of acceptance of the LGBT lifestyle. The fact is if we are going to make inroads into prevention of LGBT teen suicide its not going to be through acceptance and inclusion of their lifestyle but rather to identify it as an illness, disease or sickness and work towards it from that angle.

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5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The concert's aim is explicitly to prevent youth suicide.  That is 100% in line with church teaching.  

Except that the money being generated goes to organizations whose focus is on teaching that immoral sexual behavior is normal and should be protected.

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Just now, Rob Osborn said:

I just feel its a bad move. People are going to see this as..

You can take it up with the Prophet then.  Again, "people are going to see" what they want to see. Anyone who knows our faith and all the work we've done against gay marriage that we will never in a million years support gay marriage or indoctrinating children into a gay lifestyle.

The Church was largely responsible for the anti-gay discrimination bill in Utah, which is being used as model throughout the country.  Does that mean the Church is supporting homosexuality?  People will see what they want to see.  The Lord will do what the Lord does.

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A couple of points.  Why does a world-wide Church even need to address this?  The LDS Church puts out a PR statement on an event that will have what maybe at the very most 50,000 people attend.  Commenting on a Rock Concert no less (I love rock, but again why comment?).  This event is an extremely local event-I bet nobody except those who either live in the direct area or those who are plugged into the homosexual agenda were even aware of this event.

The Church has 15+ million members with over half residing in foreign lands that have absolutely nothing to do with the event.  Again part of wisdom in life and organizationally is understanding some things just don't need to be addressed.  When you address ever little whim and issues you look like you are either becoming more and more shifting with the times or like you don't know what you are doing and are reacting to ever jot and tittle. Just because you have lots of people inquiring doesn't mean you are required to give an answer.

And on the surface the event's "aim" appears noble.  "Prevent teen suicides and keep families together".  Of course, who wouldn't be for those things.  Except their idea of how to prevent suicides and keep families together is antithecal to the LDS church methodology. LDS Church is love them as children of God but right is right, wrong is wrong-do not commit sin.  Their way (as stated by their founder) is that this teaching leads to suicide and teaching children that homosexual behavior is a sin is hateful.

LDS church's view on family is that it should be man and women.  Their view is homosexuals should be able to raise children.

How can you have dialog on that?

And quite frankly as human beings very, very few of us are able to understand the subtle nuances.  That's why you have a PR department, they are supposed to understand that people don't get subtle differences and word things in a clear concise manner.

PR says "we share common values like the pricelessness of youth and the value of families".  Except our definition of what pricelessness of youth means (i.e. teaching them the straight and narrow way) and our definition of value of families (man and woman sealed together) are the complete opposite than theirs.

PR this past week from the Church was a major, major fail. Had the PR department acknowledged in their statement a reaffirmation of LDS values then that would probably have been much better. The PR department can receive such backlash that they clarify their statement against "white supremacy" but they will probably let this stand.

The definition of how they use words is different then ours.  Our love is their hate and their love is our sin. 

God heads this Church; but anyone who says "all is well in Zion" has got their head stuck in the mud.

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34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The concert's aim is explicitly to prevent youth suicide.  That is 100% in line with church teaching.  

Except again, the methodology they want to use to prevent youth suicide is out of line with Church teaching.  It's insidious. The founder of the concert explicitly says the LDS church is bigoted and telling youth that homosexual behavior is sinful is "hateful"-they want to prevent youth suicide by telling kids "just be who you are, it's okay to engage in homosexual behavior". 

That individuals don't see the readjustment and changing of definition of words is amazing and demonstrates how insidious Lucifer really is.  Up until roughly the 1950s, gay meant happy, joyous. The song "We'll all feel gay when Johnny comes Marching Home" was a song sung. But the homosexual agenda usurped the word and then owned the word.  Now gay means exclusively homosexual. 

The definition of "Family values" and love are changing too.

Edited by JoCa

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25 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You can take it up with the Prophet then.  Again, "people are going to see" what they want to see. Anyone who knows our faith and all the work we've done against gay marriage that we will never in a million years support gay marriage or indoctrinating children into a gay lifestyle.

The Church was largely responsible for the anti-gay discrimination bill in Utah, which is being used as model throughout the country.  Does that mean the Church is supporting homosexuality?  People will see what they want to see.  The Lord will do what the Lord does.

AMEN

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4 minutes ago, JoCa said:

So every statement out of the PR department is from the Prophet's mouth?

Do you really think the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? 

No not everything on there is from the prophet's mouth, but I am certain that he or one of the apostles knows what is on there. And if they didn't approve it wouldn't be there. 

The statement explains clearly what the purpose of the statement is. I support it. 

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22 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Except again, the methodology they want to use to prevent youth suicide is out of line with Church teaching.  It's insidious. The founder of the concert explicitly says the LDS church is bigoted and telling youth that homosexual behavior is sinful is "hateful"-they want to prevent youth suicide by telling kids "just be who you are, it's okay to engage in homosexual behavior". 

That individuals don't see the readjustment and changing of definition of words is amazing and demonstrates how insidious Lucifer really is.  Up until roughly the 1950s, gay meant happy, joyous. The song "We'll all feel gay when Johnny comes Marching Home" was a song sung. But the homosexual agenda usurped the word and then owned the word.  Now gay means exclusively homosexual. 

The definition of "Family values" and love are changing too.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

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1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Perhaps so. A PR move by the church maybe?

Im all for preventing suicide, especially in the youth. I just worry that this kind of support sends the wrong message into them thinking we are making headway into supporting their ideals.

I think the consistency of our messaging would prevent that from happening. Children of course first and foremost require consistency at the parental level, and fellowship at the ward level supplements these. Everyone needs to be aligned with the Brethren through the gift and companionship of the Holy Ghost. The lord has a lot of checks and balances for His children.

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23 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Do you really think the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? 

No not everything on there is from the prophet's mouth, but I am certain that he or one of the apostles knows what is on there. And if they didn't approve it wouldn't be there. 

The statement explains clearly what the purpose of the statement is. I support it. 

There is always someone who tries to be more LDS than the prophet. I support it too. 

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45 minutes ago, JoCa said:

A couple of points.  Why does a world-wide Church even need to address this?  The LDS Church puts out a PR statement on an event that will have what maybe at the very most 50,000 people attend.  Commenting on a Rock Concert no less (I love rock, but again why comment?).  This event is an extremely local event-I bet nobody except those who either live in the direct area or those who are plugged into the homosexual agenda were even aware of this event.

The Church has 15+ million members with over half residing in foreign lands that have absolutely nothing to do with the event.  Again part of wisdom in life and organizationally is understanding some things just don't need to be addressed.  When you address ever little whim and issues you look like you are either becoming more and more shifting with the times or like you don't know what you are doing and are reacting to ever jot and tittle. Just because you have lots of people inquiring doesn't mean you are required to give an answer.

And on the surface the event's "aim" appears noble.  "Prevent teen suicides and keep families together".  Of course, who wouldn't be for those things.  Except their idea of how to prevent suicides and keep families together is antithecal to the LDS church methodology. LDS Church is love them as children of God but right is right, wrong is wrong-do not commit sin.  Their way (as stated by their founder) is that this teaching leads to suicide and teaching children that homosexual behavior is a sin is hateful.

LDS church's view on family is that it should be man and women.  Their view is homosexuals should be able to raise children.

How can you have dialog on that?

And quite frankly as human beings very, very few of us are able to understand the subtle nuances.  That's why you have a PR department, they are supposed to understand that people don't get subtle differences and word things in a clear concise manner.

PR says "we share common values like the pricelessness of youth and the value of families".  Except our definition of what pricelessness of youth means (i.e. teaching them the straight and narrow way) and our definition of value of families (man and woman sealed together) are the complete opposite than theirs.

PR this past week from the Church was a major, major fail. Had the PR department acknowledged in their statement a reaffirmation of LDS values then that would probably have been much better. The PR department can receive such backlash that they clarify their statement against "white supremacy" but they will probably let this stand.

The definition of how they use words is different then ours.  Our love is their hate and their love is our sin. 

God heads this Church; but anyone who says "all is well in Zion" has got their head stuck in the mud.

The Church organization / headquarters is addressing a local issue as a neighbor in that community.

This message is worth getting out there globally.

The Church “[earnestly hopes] this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.” That goes both ways, including addressing areas where the Church and other organizations may disagree on various fronts regarding broader LGBTQ political and moral issues. In a way this is a call to repentance to any who not extend good faith toward the Church on these issues.

Do people wonder about what the Church really means? Have a respectful dialogue with her. Or, “Ask the missionaries, they can help!”

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38 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Do you really think the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? 

No not everything on there is from the prophet's mouth, but I am certain that he or one of the apostles knows what is on there. And if they didn't approve it wouldn't be there. 

The statement explains clearly what the purpose of the statement is. I support it. 

It's kind of funny, because this is the very same argument that Wife With a Purpose person was pulling.  She was arguing that the Church's PR department does not speak for the Prophet in its condemnation of white supremacist views, and therefore having such views are OK, despite what the Church's PR department is saying.  Almost word for word!

Of course, I think the "Church's PR department doesn't speak for the First Presidency" argument is so weak it is almost a non-sequitur.

Edited by DoctorLemon

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24 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Do you really think the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? 

No not everything on there is from the prophet's mouth, but I am certain that he or one of the apostles knows what is on there. And if they didn't approve it wouldn't be there. 

The statement explains clearly what the purpose of the statement is. I support it. 

I don't know who has authorization to release Church PR messages and I don't know if they are explicitly from the 12 or not. I think if the Church wants to move on something they put out a unified statement like the Proclamation on the Family, signed by all 12. I do know that the 12 can have drastically different views on many things.  If the Prophet wants to speak-he can speak it.  

If the 12 want to get their message across to the Church they read a statement over the pulpit. As has been done many, many time in my life.  A PR statement not read over the pulpit.  I feel in no way that critizing a PR statement is coming even close to apostasy.  Read a statement over the pulpit and I take issue with it and then we can discuss.

What I do know is that when MormonLeaks is a thing. All is not well in Zion.  MormonLeaks is a thing because either someone hacked into their systems (likely but remote as a lot more information would be released), or someone who had access to the material leaked it.  Maybe it is a low-level employee or maybe not.  But the fact that a supposedly faithful LDS temple attending member would leak that information . . .well again people have their head stuck in the mud.

When I'm in a Sunday School class and a member stands up and berates the Church for it's stance on homosexual marriage, all is not well in Zion.

The Church is an organization and a vehicle to lead people to Christ. It's not perfect, not everything done or said is God's will-it's lead by men of God who are imperfect human beings.  The biggest reason the Church exists is because of the authority and ordnances. If a member of the 70 can be sin so greatly as to be excommunicated, then yes good men of God can make plenty of mistakes.

If the LDS church at one point decided to allow homosexuals to marriage; I would severely disagree. I personally would believe it is not of God. I would still be a member of the Church. I would teach my children it is against God's law-but I would still be a member of the Church why, b/c I know it is the only organization authorized to act in God's name regardless of it's human problems. 

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21 minutes ago, CV75 said:

The Church organization / headquarters is addressing a local issue as a neighbor in that community.

 

This message is worth getting out there globally.

 

This is a message that would be read over the pulpit in every sacrament?

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