On Removing Confederate Statues

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Not if you don't quit that three pack a day Marlboro habit. How is that going for you, by the way? 

I have quit those Marlboros for good.  I've upgraded to Seneca -- five packs a day. 

[Mike]

Hahahaha, I'm not one to get bent out of shape if "my" OP doesn't lead where I planned. But from a Confederate statue of Robert E. Lee to same-sex marriage took me by surprise.

 

[NeuroTypical]

My posts are so quick, they've been known to induce whiplash.

[Mike]

@Armin I don't recognize the statue in your photo. Would you tell me about it?

[Mike]

15 minutes ago, Armin said:

Durham, NC.

Oh, I'm sorry for not recognizing it.

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mike

[NeuroTypical]

Wanna know what else happens?

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/joan_of_arc_statue_graffiti_te.html

Quote

The phrase "Tear it Down" was hastily sprayed in black paint across the base of the golden Joan of Arc statue on Decatur Street in the French Quarter sometime earlier this week. 

Now, I hate that racist slaveowning confederate general Joan of Arc as much as the next guy, but this is just taking things too far!

[Mike]

50 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Now, I hate that racist slaveowning confederate general Joan of Arc as much as the next guy, but this is just taking things too far!

The next guy doesn't. I'm at a loss to understand what the spray painter's point is.

[SilentOne]

Are we supposed to be all anti-French and eating freedom fries again?

[NeuroTypical]

The only point I'm learning here, is ignorance, leftish mob mentality, and spray paint can make you look stupid.

[Mike]

With the Charlottesville statue of Robert E. Lee in my mind I was doing some reading regarding the moving, re-moving, and re-moving again of the Brigham Young statue in downtown Salt Lake City. I think the history of moving that statue is instructive in terms of what's important vs. not so much--something that people were unable to agree upon for over 100 years in Utah's case and so not unlike the controversy in Virginia's case. Personally, I think where Brigham Young's statue was last moved to is the second best place (the best being a garden on Capitol Hill) in the interests of the people who care about it; and I think likewise that there could be better places to remove the Charlottesville statue to rest (in the interests of the people who care about it). 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mike

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

The only point I'm learning here, is ignorance, leftish mob mentality, and spray paint can make you look stupid.

Also:  Gray Deaths Matter!!!

[Guest]

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Edited August 26, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Mike]

7 hours ago, Armin said:

"Ein anderer ist der Konflikt um die Gedenkstätten für Lee, der auch hinter den Krawallen in Charlottesville stand. Dabei ist unbestreitbar, daß Lee zu den bedeutendsten Feldherrn neuerer Zeit gehört, ein verantwortungsbewußter militärischer Führer, der seinen Männern angesichts der Niederlage verbot, das Land im verzweifelten Guerillakampf weiter auszubluten und unumwunden erklärte, daß er froh sei, „daß die Sklaverei aufgehoben ist. Ich glaube, daß das großartig für die Interessen des Südens sein wird."

Another conflict is around the memorials for (Robert E.) Lee, that also stood behind the riots in Charlottesville. Besides, it's unquestionable that Lee belongs to the most important generals of newer times, a responsible military leader who forbade his men, in view of the defeat, to let the country bleed dry in a desperate guerilla warfare, and frankly explained that he was glad that slavery was lifted and that he thought it would be grand for the interests of the South.

(Hope I've met the point with the translation)

Source: Junge Freiheit (Young Freedom), Germany https://jungefreiheit.de/wissen/geschichte/2017/holzschnittartiges-geschichtsbild/

   

Elaborate for me, please. I don't totally understand, and I want to. (I do share the high estimation of General Lee, himself.)

[NeuroTypical]

Indeed.  I see stuff like this all the time:

 

[prisonchaplain]

A poster on this string recently suggested that Trump trolled the liberals with his, "Next it'll be Jefferson and Washington," line. I dismissed that, focusing on the word troll. Turns out other pundits think he may have been very intentional in this tact:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/25/trump-winning-statue-war-ames-robbins-column/595178001/

Whether he meant it or not, such it is.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Indeed.  I see stuff like this all the time:

 

Prince was actually anti-gay marriage and voted for republicans sometimes. Did you know that? Tell the left that and they'll burn down his statue too. 

[Blueskye2]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

A poster on this string recently suggested that Trump trolled the liberals with his, "Next it'll be Jefferson and Washington," line. I dismissed that, focusing on the word troll. Turns out other pundits think he may have been very intentional in this tact:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/25/trump-winning-statue-war-ames-robbins-column/595178001/

Whether he meant it or not, such it is.

troll²

trōl/

verb

gerund or present participle: trolling

1. 1.

   informal

   make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

[NeuroTypical]

Almost, Blueskye2.  Trolls are out to elicit any response, not just an upset or angry one.  The hallmark of a good troll is their investment in the response is great, and their investment in the actual subject is minimal.  They score higher on the troll-o-meter, the less effort they put into obtaining and maintaining the reaction, and the greater the reaction.

At one time, I would have let y'all know that you're in the presence of their king, and ask y'all to kneel.  But I'm retired now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIa_LKojJI

 

[Blueskye2]

4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Almost, Blueskye2.  Trolls are out to elicit any response, not just an upset or angry one.  The hallmark of a good troll is their investment in the response is great, and their investment in the actual subject is minimal.  They score higher on the troll-o-meter, the less effort they put into obtaining and maintaining the reaction, and the greater the reaction.

At one time, I would have let y'all know that you're in the presence of their king, and ask y'all to kneel.  But I'm retired now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIa_LKojJI

 

The definition I posted is relevant to the article that PrisonChaplain posted.

Quote: "And if it looks like Democrats aren’t bursting with enough toxic anger, he can send radical left-wing mobs into the streets with a well-timed tweet."

[NightSG]

I'm just waiting for the cognitive dissonance when they're down to this one:

Blacks who slaughtered thousands of Native Americans.  

[Just_A_Guy]

IIRC, "Dixie" was actually written by a northerner.

[AnthonyB2]

Malcolm Turnbull (Aus PM)

Today’s vandalism of statues of James Cook and Lachlan Macquarie is a cowardly criminal act and I hope the police swiftly find those responsible and bring them to justice.

But it is also part of a deeply disturbing and totalitarian campaign to not just challenge our history but to deny it and obliterate it. This is what Stalin did. When he fell out with his henchmen he didn’t just execute them, they were removed from all official photographs - they became non-persons, banished not just from life’s mortal coil but from memory and history itself.

Tearing down or defacing statues of our colonial era explorers and governors is not much better than that. Of course Cook didn’t “discover” Australia anymore than Columbus “discovered” America or Marco Polo "discovered" China. I knew that when as a schoolboy I first read the inscription.

The statue gives a perspective of history from the time it was erected - 1879. Just as a history text in the Mitchell Library from the same era would do. Is the next step of this new totalitarianism to burn the 19th century histories of Australia as well, or should their yellowing pages be simply overwritten in crude graffiti condemning their long dead authors?

Old histories should not be burned, anymore than old statues should be torn down. Rather they should be challenged and complemented by new histories, fresh evidence and modern monuments.

Statues, inscriptions, monuments are all part of our history not simply because of what they record but of how it is recorded. We do not adopt every inscription on every statue or monument - it is a voice at a point in time.

How many ancient Roman monuments show slaves shackled to the chariot wheels of their Roman conquerors? Does that mean modern Italians endorse slavery? Or chariots?

Old statues and monuments which tell one version of events offer the opportunity to tell another. It might be another new monument nearby or an interpretative panel, after all contention and controversy enliven history....

Yes, there are many dark chapters of injustice, hardship and cruelty. And none crueller or more unjust than the dispossession of our first Australians. But we do not advance the clear eyed telling of the truth as we see it today, by trying to obliterate the reality of the different perspectives of times past.

A free society debates its history, it does not deny it.

It writes new books, it does not burn old ones.

It builds new monuments as it preserves old ones.

And above all, a free society recognises that the history each generation makes, and writes, builds upon the ones that came before to create our nation’s remarkable Australian story.

[Happy Hiker]

It seems kind of weird that the area that lost has statues honoring the army that lost.  That said, I think it is insane that people want to change the name of Lake Calhoun, in Minnesota.  Most people that are aware of that lake don't even know who John C Calhoun was.  I don't think that there are any areas besides majority white western nations that are required by political correctness to apologize for their past and their heritage.  I believe the expectation stems from the post modern idea of power structures and the paradigm's inability to deal with dominance hierarchies.  I'm opposed to the globalist agenda, and I was disappointed that Mitt Romney had to pile on President Trump when he correctly stated that street communist anarchists are responsible for a lot of violence we've seen.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Happy Hiker
spelling

[Lindy]

Personally I think it's ridiculous what these groups want to tear down.  We went through a lot of turmoil during our countries growth. I had ancestors fighting on both sides in the Civil War, they all fought for what they believed in. 

 Those groups who want to hate and destroy just to make their opinions heard.... I shutter to think of how far our country will let them go. How much more hate and destruction they will allow before it's considered enough.