Future Preparations of the Church Against Pornography?

[clbent04]

27 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Did you know that we have HUGE temples...  

Ok, this is getting out of hand @estradling75.  Are you suggesting different temple architectural designs justifies someone willingly letting themselves go and becoming obese? This logic is getting a little scary

[Snigmorder]

51 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Interesting comment...  Did you know that we have HUGE temples... we also have some small temples.  we have temples that stand tall into the air and others that stay close to the ground... we have some that look alike and some that look different...  In all their various shapes and sizes the one thing they all have in common is that they are a temple of God in spite of how different they look.  The choice for those shapes and sizes were all made by the people who had the stewardship from God.

And sometimes the people with the stewardship will shutdown the temple for renovation and repairs and it that is all good.

Do you know who the true vandals are? Those people who are not the stewards who try to make changes to it. Those who because of arrogance, pride or simple misunderstanding think that their stewardship of their temple means that all other temples should be just like theirs.  They demand that other temple can't be bigger or smaller, or stand taller or shorter... and if they are then clearly they can't be a House of God.  They are so busy declaring that they know better then God's duly appointed stewards of other temples that they miss that the bigger sin of unrighteous judgement that has take root in their temple

 

I haven't read any posts regarding this obesity thing so I don't know what's going on. I think everyone should make an effort to be as healthy as they possibly can.

Also, I used to weigh 311 pounds and went down to 175. 

I was extremely fortunate in that I never internalized that I was fat (I carried it pretty well) as far as I can recall I had zero grief about it. I agree, we should not judge people's level of effort based on their weight.

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Snigmorder

[clbent04]

22 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

we should not judge people's level of effort based on their weight.

I don't want to judge anybody. I'm just voicing my opinion of what I interpret treating your body like a temple means.

I have become more interested in talking about this weight thing than my original post. I didn't even start the weight discussion, but it amazes me what a hot topic it is.

What is even more amazing to me is how many people aren't being honest with what it means to treat your body like a temple.

If you read this thread, you will see several people trying to rationalize obesity into anything but a sin.

Can we just be honest what it means to treat your body like temple?

I'm not fat shaming anyone here. I'm not trying to invent doctrine that doesn't exist. Stop pretending these are the issues. It's not. Don't take posts out of context, even if this is a sensitive issue for you.

YOUR BODY IS A TEMPLE

I don't think it's a serious sin if you let yourself go over time and you wake up one day and realize you haven't been taking care of yourself like you should. But it's still a sin, even if in the slightest degree

Edited August 21, 2017 by clbent04

[Vort]

Not sure I agree with your characterization of being out of shape (overweight and otherwise not in good condition) as being a sin. Not completely sure I disagree, either, but I lean that direction. I tend to think that "sin" is simply the wrong way of characterizing the condition of obesity, both from a spiritual perspective and from the practical standpoint of encouraging good behavior and actions.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

If you read this thread, you will see several people trying to rationalize obesity into anything but a sin.

Dude, you ain't seen nothing yet.

You're thin aren't you? Your thoughts on this are very narrow and prideful.  If you really want to understand this issue, you would need to give it a lot more careful thought and study. You might start with actually talking to people who are overweight about their reasons, if they are even consciouly aware of them.

My niece had a brain tumor at 18. She had been a cheerleader. One of the medications made her gain weight rapidly. If you didn't know her story you might assume she was sinning by your definition.  There are other meds and health issues that can make people gain weight. 

We have an obesity epidemic in America (all over the world really especially as other countries adapt our diet.)  Children are getting Type 2 Diabetes....formerly named Adult On-Set Diabetes. Are the children sinning or the parents? Or perhaps we have all been given a lot of misinformation about diet. And as @my two cents said, a lot of food is intentionally created to be addictive.

Many survivors of rape and sexual abuse gain weight as a form of protection  (consciously or unconsciously). One woman, sexually abused by her father, told me, "When I gained weight, the sbuse stopped."  Did she sin?  Obesity is a common problem for survivors. Are you including that in your proclamation of sin? 

You talk about people "letting themselves go"...except for very rare exceptions, no one chooses to be obese.  If you look around you will see the weight loss industry is making millions off of people trying to lose weight.  MILLIONS because their programs don't work long term.  People lose weight and then they gain it back and then some.  All over the world we are facing an obesity epidemic.  Is everyone choosing this in your opinion?  It would be extremely naive to believe that.

And yes, before you call me out like you did to my friend, @MormonGator, yes this is something I struggle with. I am a survivor of sexual abuse and assault.  Yes, the weight makes me feel SAFER.  That is something I have spent a lot of time in therapy trying to overcome.  But you would not know that just looking at me.  You would see me in church and think I'm just another fat person who let themselves go.   

And there is more...  A lot of the information we have out there about diet and nutrition is just plain wrong.  They say you have to watch how many calories you eat, and exercise....but some researchers are starting to argue this point.  Check out The Calorie Myth by Jonathon Bailor  The intro on amazon says, "In this revolutionary weight-loss program informed by more than 1,200 scientific studies, fitness and diet expert Jonathan Bailor offers concrete evidence that the calorie-counting model of weight loss doesn't work. In fact, cutting-edge science supports a radically different approach to weight loss and health, proving that by focusing on food and exercise quality - rather than calorie quantity - you can burn fat and boost health more easily and enjoyably that you ever thought possible."

We are told we must eat meat and dairy, and don't eat too many nuts, dates, avocados, bananas (because of high sugar and fat.)  But you know what, I have lost 60 lbs in 8 months by giving up sugar, meat and dairy.  I don't count calories.  I don't exercise (yet, but I will start.)   I eat as many dates, avocados, bananas, and nuts as I want (no salt),  I eat beans and rice abundantly (defying the low carb theories.) I follow a Whole Food Plant Based diet.  And before you tell me that i need meat and dairy....my health is vastly improved and I don't mean just the things that are directly related to weight...like high blood pressure.  My kidney function is the best it has been in 10 years...because I gave up meat.  (Meat is hard on your kidneys.) *

Sugar, salt and fat (particularly cheese) are all highly addictive.  Check out the book, Salt, Sugar, Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Scott Brick.  From the amazon description, "From a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter at The New York Times comes the explosive story of the rise of the processed food industry and its link to the emerging obesity epidemic. Michael Moss reveals how companies use salt, sugar, and fat to addict us and, more important, how we can fight back."   Yes, the food companies have INTENTIONALLY addicted us.  If people are addicted and they don't even know it...that includes you...is that a sin?  

I'm sure you think of being obese as a lack of self-control (based on your posts in this thread...yes, I read the whole thing).  Tell me then...could you do what I did?  In order to cut out sugar, I had to cut out basically all processed food.  I eat canned beans (no salt) and frozen veggies and fruit, but that's it for packaged foods. So even though I still have some weight to lose, and you apparently are thin...isn't it possible that you are sinning against your body/temple by the unhealthy things you put in your mouth more than I am?  I am not judging you--or anyone else--because I have been trying to eat this way for 13 years...but I had to deal with some emotional stuff first (remember sexual abuse survivor).  So I don't judge others based on their diet, or their weight because that would make me a hypocrite.

My point here is not to tell anyone else how to eat because that is not my place.  Though I'd be happy to share what is working for me with anyone who is interested...I am VERY satisfied with my diet.  My taste buds are changing and I feel fantastic.   My point is that you  should be very careful about judging others as sinning when you don't know what they are dealing with, where they are coming from...or any number of other factors.  A judgmental attitude is one of the many manifestations of pride.   And yes, I'm fully aware that I am prideful too. (Do a quick search on the forum, I have talked about my struggle with pride many times.)  

Finally...as a survivor, you can imagine that I find pornography extremely repugnant...however...I don't judge the men caught in this trap of Satan's harshly because I see them as victims of a snare.  Perhaps you could consider extending that same compassion and understanding to those who are overweight.  

Edited August 21, 2017 by LiterateParakeet
typos, typos, typos....

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

20 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

I think the church is doing a lot to combat this. Not only do you have an entire addiction recovery book designed around combating this evil, you have addiction recovery groups, bishops and stake presidents to speak with, general conference talks, stake conference talks, priesthood meetings on the subject, ppi's etc. I think the real change has to come from parents in my opinion. We can't assume our children won't be exposed to pornography. We have to discuss this problem with them in depth much earlier because if we don't the world will. We need to monitor their internet connections because curiosity can lead to an all consuming habit very quickly if we don't. Finally we need our kids to be able to talk to us if they do slip up so we can help them repent before it becomes an entrenched addiction. I think that's the best way to combat this plague. Pornography thrives in darkness. By throwing it into the light we can cause it to wither and die but as long as we are too ashamed to discuss it openly, Satan will use that darkness to ensnare the hearts of our men and women with these chains.

I love this and totally agree.  My youngest son is 11, and I have already talked to him about pornography.  It was sad to me to have to do it, but the church has a video specifically for this purpose, so I watched that with him and we discussed it.  

@estradling75  I just noticed you have a new (to me) avatar.  Love it! 

Also...here is a video that gives a great overall summary of what I was saying about regarding the misinformation we have been given about which foods will make us gain weight.  If you scroll down below the video, there is a box for "sources cited" if you would like to see the studies.  

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-fruit-nut-bars-cause-weight-gain/

Edited August 21, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[Grunt]

I apologize for derailing this.  I'm going to leave the thread until it gets back on topic.  I asked because I'm honestly trying to understand the reasons behind some things and talk through things that don't make sense to me.  That has turned into a discussion/defense/attack on/of obesity.  While I feel that is a legitimate discussion, it's not one I would participate in on this forum.  I think it would stand in the way of information that I personally value more.  It may seem like I bail out of discussions often.  It's not because I don't have an opinion or because I can't make a good argument.  It's because I believe some topics are best discussed in person or that topic is taking me off my path.  It is very easy to be insensitive, judgmental, or accusatory online.   It's a little more difficult when you're looking them in the eye as you make your argument.

As I've stated before, I believe getting sidetracked on the easy arguments keeps your focus from what you need to learn.  Maybe that's Satan's plan. 

[clbent04]

@LiterateParakeet I'm not fat shaming anyone here. There's a difference in fat shaming someone and voicing what you consider sinful.

If I say the viewing of pornography is a sin, does that automatically make me lack compassion towards all those who struggle with it? No. Of course not. I don't see how that can be inferred without asking me for more information. I've only told you I think viewing pornography is a sin based on what I understand from church doctrine.

Now, have we already covered in this thread how the Lord judges all of us case by case? Yes, we have, and it's something I agree with.

My view on the subject remains the same. The majority of obese people out there have a choice to do a better job treating their bodies like temples.

What does in it mean to treat your body like a temple? I think it includes the following:

1. Healthy dieting

2. Exercise

3. No tattoes 

4. No toxic substances (drugs, alcohol...)

5. Not engaging in sinful sexual activity thus desecrating your own "temple"

6. No piercings beyond simple ear piercings or whatever is the current church guidance

As for your particular situation, I DO have compassion for you, and not only for you, but anyone struggling with any challenge in their life who is putting up the good fight. How can you not have compassion when we're all in this boat together, trying to figure out life as best we can? 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

16 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

My view on the subject remains the same. The majority of obese people out there have a choice to do a better job treating their bodies like temples.

What does in it mean to treat your body like a temple? I think it includes the following:

1. Healthy dieting

So....are YOU truly eating healthy?  I believe if you are eating the Standard American Diet, you are not and thus by your definition you are sinning.

If you want to know what HEALTHY eating looks like, I have some suggestions.  Read the Word of Wisdom again and then watch at least 2 or 3 of these videos. That's a challenge.

Forks Over Knives
What the Health
The C Word
Food Choices
In Defense of Food
Vegucated
PlantPure Nation
Hungry for Change
FOOD Inc
Fed Up
Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead
Sugar Coated

There's tons of info on nutritionfacts.org

And tons of books if you are interested.  

You are wrong when you say, "The majority of obese people out there have a choice to do a better job treating their bodies like temples."  But you are entitled to your opinion.  

Edited August 21, 2017 by LiterateParakeet

[estradling75]

9 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Ok, this is getting out of hand @estradling75.  Are you suggesting different temple architectural designs justifies someone willingly letting themselves go and becoming obese? This logic is getting a little scary

Then follow this logic...

God gave us the Word of Wisdom through his appointed Stewards.

God then had his appointed Stewards clarify how we should live the word of wisdom.  The Do Nots (Which the church had clearly and repeatedly articulated) and to make it a matter of personal study and Prayer (which the church has clearly an repeatedly articulated)..

That is it.  Full stop.   They have not declared anything about obesity, caffeine, energy drinks, vegetarianism or any of the other 100's of things people might do (or not do) to live healthier.  They easily could have if that is what God wanted them to teach the people.. 

Thus for you to come along and declare that you know better then the church leaders what God would have everyone do is a display of prideful arrogance that the church and God has repeatedly condemned as sin. So cast that Beam out of your own eye...  Then we can discuss the mote that you see in others.

As for Obesity and the 100's of other things... they fall in to the category of personal study and revelation.  Which means that God is going to work with the individual were they are and as a Master teacher make the call on what the individual needs to do.  Following the Lord in this matter is not sin. Whereas not following him is.  However an outsider with no stewardship declaring that they know better then God what the individual should be doing most definitely is.

 

 

[clbent04]

9 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

If you want to know what HEALTHY eating looks like, I have some suggestions

For most people, healthy dieting and exercise invariably lead to weight loss

[clbent04]

I think I've voiced my opinion sufficiently on obesity being a sin. I'm also going to not comment anymore on this as I don't see the value in it, and it's obviously a sensitive issue for many

[estradling75]

44 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I think I've voiced my opinion sufficiently on obesity being a sin. I'm also going to not comment anymore on this as I don't see the value in it, and it's obviously a sensitive issue for many

You are perfectly entitled to say that the Lord has revealed that for you @clbent04 personally obesity is a sin.  You are not however entitled to say "Thus Saith the Lord... obesity is a sin"  In the first case you are (hopefully) following the guidance of personal revelation...  In the second case you are setting yourself up as a false prophet and rightly need to be called out on it.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

You are perfectly entitled to say that the Lord has revealed that for you @clbent04 personally obesity is a sin.  You are not however entitled to say "Thus Saith the Lord... obesity is a sin"  In the first case you are (hopefully) following the guidance of personal revelation...  In the second case you are setting yourself up as a false prophet and rightly need to be called out on it.

 

This is a first. @estradling75, @LiterateParakeet and I basically agree on something. Throw in @Vort agreeing here, the eclipse and maybe those preaching about the end of the world are onto something. 

[Vort]

Isaiah 55:2 "...eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness."

Edited August 21, 2017 by Vort

[clbent04]

4 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

You are perfectly entitled to say that the Lord has revealed that for you @clbent04 personally obesity is a sin.  You are not however entitled to say "Thus Saith the Lord... obesity is a sin"  In the first case you are (hopefully) following the guidance of personal revelation...  In the second case you are setting yourself up as a false prophet and rightly need to be called out on it.

You can interpret treat your body as a temple however you want to. I've made it clear what my interpretatation has been the whole time

[estradling75]

Just now, clbent04 said:

You can interpret treat your body as a temple however you want to. I've made it clear what my interpretatation has been the whole time

And your interpretation is binding on you... and you alone.

The moment you try to impose your interpretation on anyone outside your limited stewardship you are wrong minded sinner.

[omegaseamaster75]

On 8/19/2017 at 7:51 PM, clbent04 said:

I am an advocate for seeing the church dedicate more resources to the battle of pornography.  What is the church currently doing, and what can it do better to tackle this epidemic?  This must be a regular discussion among the executive leadership of the church.  The brethren must be constantly praying to God for additional guidance on how to best curtail this onslaught of filth we see affecting members today.

MORE THAN A THIRD OF THE MEN IN THE CHURCH HAVE PROBLEMS WITH PORNOGRAPHY.  This is a plague.  How can we be more effective in helping prevent pornography's ever-growing influence on our members?

 

 

CFR. 

More than a third have "problems" with pornography? Please provide a reference for your claim.

 

[clbent04]

41 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

And your interpretation is binding on you... and you alone.

The moment you try to impose your interpretation on anyone outside your limited stewardship you are wrong minded sinner.

"I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." - Joseph Smith

Does God not also teach us correct principles in hopes that we may govern ourselves?

Treat your body as a temple. Use this guidance to govern yourself however you want to.  If the principle is correct, it should help guide all of us to treat our bodies as the Lord wants us to

Edited August 21, 2017 by clbent04

[Guest]

Just remember, if you condemn the overweight, you are condemning a lot of Church leaders and prophets, past and present: Brigham Young, George A. Smith, John Taylor, David O. McKay, Thomas S. Monson, Jeffrey R. Holland, and Richard G. Scott all appear to be pretty big guys, yet they are prophets and apostles.

Take home: if being overweight is a sin, it apparently isn't a very serious one!

Edited August 21, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[clbent04]

2 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Take home: if obesity is a sin, it apparently isn't a very serious one!

Exactly

[estradling75]

4 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

"I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." - Joseph Smith

Does God not also teach us correct principles in hopes that we may govern ourselves?

Treat your body as a temple. Use this guidance to govern yourself however you want to.  If the principle is correct, we should all arrive to the same conclusions

Yes and no.  God made me a Tallish brown haired man... God made other people taller and shorter and with different colored hair... following the correct principle will not turn us into physical clones there will be people bigger and taller and heavier and lighter and none of it is wrong because we are all following correct principles.

Second in this life we have tons of stuff to repent of... and if we are following God direction he will guide us on what he wants us to work on first.  If he wants us to work on a Porn problem (to bring back the subject of the thread) then that is what we should be focused on.  We should not let ourselves be distracted from what God would have us work on now.. with what some stranger on the internet is telling us he thinks we need to be working on.

Bottom line is if we look at our follow brothers and sisters with any judgement of their status based on their weight.  We need to realize the sin belongs to us.  We can't know what the Lord has revealed to them, we can't know what the Lord has been having them work on.  As far as we know in the eyes of the Lord their standing currently could be better then ours, even if they have more weight then we think they should.

 

 

[person0]

#1 100% guaranteed easiest way to solve a pornography addiction:  Watch the eclipse without any special glasses!  Guarantee you will never look at pornography again! 

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

CFR. 

More than a third have "problems" with pornography? Please provide a reference for your claim.

 

@clbent04 Do you have a source for your claim or did you make it up?

[Grunt]

26 minutes ago, person0 said:

#1 100% guaranteed easiest way to solve a pornography addiction:  Watch the eclipse without any special glasses!  Guarantee you will never look at pornography again! 

Says you.  I'm a grown man and I'll do what I want.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Grunt