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[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[Vort]

Talk to your bishop. Explain the circumstances to him.

My wife and I always had our children tithe their income, whether from working odd jobs, receiving an allowance from us, or getting money as a gift. I understand and agree that tithing money received as a gift but not tithing other gifts is inconsistent. We felt that teaching our children the joy of tithing their increase and setting that habit was much more important than worrying about whether we were being strictly logically consistent. (I would have had no problem with the idea of tithing other gifts, too, though that could have become problematic.)

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I would talk to the Bishop.  First, you want to make sure there hasn't been a misunderstanding.  I remember when I was a teenager, some how I got the impression that you had to talk to the Bishop if you cheated in school, LOL.  Misunderstandings happen, on both sides.  Maybe the Bishop thought it was allowance money.  Maybe your daughter misunderstood.    Just from what you said that does sound harsh, but I think more investigation is needed before reaching a conclusion.  

[JohnsonJones]

I'm not sure I understand the situation.

Did your daughter just say she didn't pay tithing to the Bishop, was it more generic in saying she didn't pay tithing on a gift she received?

Or did he specifically go out of his way to say that any money that you tithed on already and then gave her needed to be tithed on a second time?

The latter seems unusual for a Bishop to get that specific.  I would probably specify with him on it, especially if it's money that was tithed on already.

Now personally, I taught my kids they had to tithe on money no matter where they got it from, but technically, I believe that if that money has been tithed on by your parents already, there really isn't a need for them to tithe on previously tithed money for their family household as long as they are IN that family unit in the same household.

Edited September 4, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, talk to the bishop.  Bishops usually wouldn't just ban a 14 yr old from a temple trip just because of something like this.  All the bishops I've known would have bent over backwards to seize the opportunity to teach a youth about the importance of tithing, and being worthy to go on a temple trip - and you don't do that by just saying "you can't go".  I'm thinking there's more to this story.

I'm thinking this isn't about tithing.  

Edited September 4, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[my two cents]

This may not be the case but I've known some people to say tithing is the issue to cover for something else. 

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[NeuroTypical]

  Sorry to hear the pressures your daughter and family are under.  

I'd suggest you also forward the bishop a copy of the stuff you're saying here.  Bishops do best when they have the fullest picture possible.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

  Sorry to hear the pressures your daughter and family are under.  

I'd suggest you also forward the bishop a copy of the stuff you're saying here.  Bishops do best when they have the fullest picture possible.

I agree.  Let him know what's going on and this misunderstanding will clear up. It might be a good idea for the bishop to sit down personally with your daughter, explain how he misunderstood, apologize, and have things be right.  14 yo's are old enough to understand an apology, and it's an opportunity to strengthen that bridge.

[my two cents]

I see this as a learning opportunity. Perhaps the bishop will understand and she'll get to go this time but it wouldn't hurt for it to be made clear that going to the temple is a privilege, not a right and you can't be mia most of the time and then start to show up right before and expect to get to do things just because your friends are. This time, fine - but not next time if there's a repeat of this trend. 

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, my two cents said:

I see this as a learning opportunity. Perhaps the bishop will understand and she'll get to go this time but it wouldn't hurt for it to be made clear that going to the temple is a privilege, not a right and you can't be mia most of the time and then start to show up right before and expect to get to do things just because your friends are. This time, fine - but not next time if there's a repeat of this trend. 

I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on here.  

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[my two cents]

9 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on here.  

The bishop might be thinking it is though.

[anatess2]

11 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

I sit down with Bishop once a year so he does know my entire situation. I do trust the man and he is a very loyal servant. It was just really hard to see my daughter hurt and to know that the cause of her pain was the church, at first I was wondering why the bishop was being strict, thats why I wanted to find out first about our commandment of tithes on gifts.

Now I realize its a lack of understanding from my daughter which ultimately comes back to me as the one who should be teaching and preparing her.

PP, you are an awesome father.  I wish the situation with your wife was different but I believe you are valiantly doing the Lord's work even with this yoke around your neck.  Your daughter is blessed.

I taught my kids to tithe monetary gifts (even if they came from me) with their earnings.  They don't valuate material gifts for tithes though and that's only because we don't either.

 

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[Grunt]

This all seems incredibly off-putting to me.  Is this typical practice in all wards?

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

This all seems incredibly off-putting to me.  Is this typical practice in all wards?

(I'm not sure which particular part you're asking about here, so until further clarification I'm just going to hit a bunch of parts here)

- Bishops are human.  We don't believe that being called as Bishop makes you instantly Christ-like perfect for five years.  So Bishops making mistakes happens (like this Bishop spacing remember/checking what was going on with the family).  That was a mistake and imperfection on the Bishops part. 

- PP handled the mistake well: bringing it to the Bishop's attention so that he could explain/rectify his mistake.

- Also cluing the Bishop into what is going on is a good thing (Bishop's are mind readers).  This lets them know when people in the congregation need special attention and/or are going through hard times.  Such as the case of PP's daughter.  If they know, they can help more.  In this case the Bishop realized he made a mistake.

- As to giving tithing on gifts: this is a "up to your discernment" area.  I would say that typically for adults, who have real jobs and real responsibilities, that gifts are not tithed on (again, it's up to the individual).  It is more common for like a kid to tithe on a gift as a learning experience- learning the importance of giving back to the Lord.  

- It is very strange (if not against church policy) that the bishop would require tithing on a gift in order to get a TR.  That's why we on the board immediately thought it was a miscommunication going on- that the Bishop meant to be asking about actual job money but communication got jumbled.

 

Did I hit on the thing you were asking about @Grunt ?

[Grunt]

15 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

(I'm not sure which particular part you're asking about here, so until further clarification I'm just going to hit a bunch of parts here)

- Bishops are human.  We don't believe that being called as Bishop makes you instantly Christ-like perfect for five years.  So Bishops making mistakes happens (like this Bishop spacing remember/checking what was going on with the family).  That was a mistake and imperfection on the Bishops part. 

- PP handled the mistake well: bringing it to the Bishop's attention so that he could explain/rectify his mistake.

- Also cluing the Bishop into what is going on is a good thing (Bishop's are mind readers).  This lets them know when people in the congregation need special attention and/or are going through hard times.  Such as the case of PP's daughter.  If they know, they can help more.  In this case the Bishop realized he made a mistake.

- As to giving tithing on gifts: this is a "up to your discernment" area.  I would say that typically for adults, who have real jobs and real responsibilities, that gifts are not tithed on (again, it's up to the individual).  It is more common for like a kid to tithe on a gift as a learning experience- learning the importance of giving back to the Lord.  

- It is very strange (if not against church policy) that the bishop would require tithing on a gift in order to get a TR.  That's why we on the board immediately thought it was a miscommunication going on- that the Bishop meant to be asking about actual job money but communication got jumbled.

 

Did I hit on the thing you were asking about @Grunt ?

You did.  There just seemed to be a lot more "judgment" involved than I would have thought.  I would think there would be a list of questions to ask, similar to those asked for baptism.

 "Do you give a full tithe?"   Check.

"Do you follow the Word of Wisdom?"  Check

etc.

This post made me seem like he just judges you on whatever criteria he wants.  "You missed YW on the second Sunday of May and were 13 minutes late on the first Sunday in June".  Sorry.  You're out.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

You did.  There just seemed to be a lot more "judgment" involved than I would have thought.  I would think there would be a list of questions to ask, similar to those asked for baptism.

 "Do you give a full tithe?"   Check.

"Do you follow the Word of Wisdom?"  Check

etc.

There is.  Tithing and WoW are #10.  

 

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3. Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5. Do you live the law of chastity?
6. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10. Are you a full-tithe payer? Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
11. Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
12. If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
13. Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
14. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

This post made me seem like he just judges you on whatever criteria he wants.  "You missed YW on the second Sunday of May and were 13 minutes late on the first Sunday in June".  Sorry.  You're out.

He does NOT.  Rather, Bishops specifically have those 14 questions.  PP's bishop made a mistake here,  

 

[Grunt]

13 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

There is.  Tithing and WoW are #10.  

 

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3. Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5. Do you live the law of chastity?
6. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10. Are you a full-tithe payer? Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
11. Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
12. If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
13. Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
14. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

He does NOT.  Rather, Bishops specifically have those 14 questions.  PP's bishop made a mistake here,  

 

Ahhh.  That's understandable, then.  

Sorry for the sidetrack.  Thank you for setting me straight yet again.

[estradling75]

29 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Ahhh.  That's understandable, then.  

Sorry for the sidetrack.  Thank you for setting me straight yet again.

Note that question 8 is about attendance.

[Grunt]

Just now, estradling75 said:

Note that question 8 is about attendance.

I did.  I also noted it said "strive".  That's her interpretation, not the Bishops.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Sorry for the sidetrack.  Thank you for setting me straight yet again.

No apologies accepted when you have nothing to apologize for!!