Taking a knee during the national anthem.

[Traveler]

Does anything associated with this make sense to anybody?

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Yes.  The American empire is making it's slow decline into history, as all empires eventually do.   Empires fall when something bigger destroys it, or it rots from the inside out until something bigger destroys it.   

Nations and cultures are only as strong as the acceptance of shared ideas and ideals.  

It might take another 200 years or longer.  Still plenty of people working for 'longer'.

Edited September 29, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Guest MormonGator]

I think what conservatives need to ask themselves is: How would I feel if an athlete took a knee during the national anthem to protest gay marriage? Or abortion? Or the "immorality" that is occurring in the nation right now? 
 

Athletes have every right to do this, and the average citizen has every right to speak out against/or in support of athletes who do this.

Edited September 29, 2017 by MormonGator

[JoCa]

Except that wouldn't happen.  Taking a knee is protesting the entire entity, i.e. they wish the US were a different type of country.  It's so funny it's sad, they are protesting the very entity that allows them such freedom to do so.

I think it's totally despicable.  But I'm kind-of resolved to the fact that I am living and will live to see the downfall of this nation.  It is rotting from the inside from decadence, immorality, and from being just plain spoiled.

Personally, I don't think this country sees it's 300th birthday.

Edited September 29, 2017 by JoCa

[Grunt]

People have difficulty distinguishing between patriotism and nationalism.  

[JoCa]

2 hours ago, Grunt said:

People have difficulty distinguishing between patriotism and nationalism.  

Yeap, one is love of people, culture, heritage, the other is love of Nation.   I wouldn't have a problem if they didn't want to say the Pledge; fine-the Pledge is more Nationalism.  But the Anthem, man that is a symbol of everything this country ever was and would hope to be.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 hours ago, Traveler said:

Does anything associated with this make sense to anybody?

 

The Traveler

Not to me. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Protesting the freedom that allows you to protest. Pretty much sums up modern protests.

[Guest Godless]

3 hours ago, JoCa said:

Taking a knee is protesting the entire entity, i.e. they wish the US were a different type of country. 

Yes, they wish this country was the type of country that the flag and anthem are supposed to represent. Some segments of our society feel that America and its ideals have abandoned them, and that's why they kneel.

[Guest Godless]

4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Protesting the freedom that allows you to protest. 

If that's what you think they're protesting, then you haven't been paying attention. 

[JoCa]

Just now, Godless said:

Yes, they wish this country was the type of country that the flag and anthem are supposed to represent. Some segments of our society feel that America and its ideals have abandoned them, and that's why they kneel.

lol abandoned them??? Give me a flipping break.  Affirmative Action anyone?  Oh my, claiming minorities are "oppressed" is just asinine.  How many scholarships are available to you if you are black, asian, LGBT, etc. vs. just plain ol' white.  

Every generation has got to have something to complain about, I guess; they are just spoiled brats.

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, Godless said:

If that's what you think they're protesting, then you haven't been paying attention. 

I know that's not what they say they're protesting. But it amounts to me being mad at one person and punching another in the face for it. They may not be meaning to protest that...but it is, literally, the national anthem, the flag, and all that stands for that the kneeling is being aimed at...which items represent the freedom I mention. That being said, the comment I made was not meant to be in reference to the kneeling specifically. More a response to the protests in general going on, specifically at college campuses.

[Guest Godless]

1 minute ago, JoCa said:

lol abandoned them??? Give me a flipping break.  Affirmative Action anyone?  Oh my, claiming minorities are "oppressed" is just asinine.  How many scholarships are available to you if you are black, asian, LGBT, etc. vs. just plain ol' white.  

Every generation has got to have something to complain about, I guess; they are just spoiled brats.

Who said anything about scholarships? The issue is police violence and the apparent lack of accountability for it. This is literally a life-and-death issue in black communities.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, Godless said:

Who said anything about scholarships? The issue is police violence and the apparent lack of accountability for it. This is literally a life-and-death issue in black communities.

Except its statistically garbage.

[JoCa]

5 minutes ago, Godless said:

Who said anything about scholarships? The issue is police violence and the apparent lack of accountability for it. This is literally a life-and-death issue in black communities.

Umm, you do realize that the actual cities where the most "police violence" occurs are in cities with black mayors and black police chiefs???? Baltimore, Atlanta, DC-etc. the cities are all run by black individuals . . . .seems they should be directing their anger at someone else beside the "white man". 

Or maybe it's all just a ruse, to rile people up against those who are white . . .maybe there are some black individuals out there who want to start a race war???  Food for thought.

Edited September 30, 2017 by JoCa

[Guest Godless]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I know that's not what they say they're protesting. But it amounts to me being mad at one person and punching another in the face for it. They may not be meaning to protest that...but it is, literally, the national anthem, the flag, and all that stands for that the kneeling is being aimed at...which items represent the freedom I mention.

Their method of protest was meant to get peoples attention, to get them out of their comfort zone (which is the only way for peaceful protest to really be effective). Maybe it wasn't the ideal method. The fact that we keep talking about the flag, anthem, military, and everything BUT racial disparity indicates that maybe it's time to try something else.

That being said, the comment I made was not meant to be in reference to the kneeling specifically. More a response to the protests in general going on, specifically at college campuses

No argument here on that matter.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Godless said:

. The fact that we keep talking about the flag, anthem, military, and everything BUT racial disparity indicates that maybe it's time to try something else.

 

It means their protest has failed to some degree because it's not revolving around a certain, obvious goal. Like I mentioned before on my FB, this isn't like Muhammad Ali protesting the Vietnam war. He had distinct and obvious goals. I am assuring you that many professional athletes have no idea what they are protesting. It's more a bandwagon issue at this point. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by MormonGator

[Guest Godless]

 

1 minute ago, JoCa said:

Or maybe it's all just a ruse, to rile people up against those who are white . . .maybe there are some black individuals out there who want to start a race war???  Food for thought.

Yes, a small percentage of black people want a race war, just like a small majority of white people want to bring back segregation. A majority of black people, however, just want some white allies to empathize with their concerns and help bridge the divide.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Godless said:

 A majority of black people, however, just want some white allies to empathize with their concerns and help bridge the divide.

It's the how that's problematic -- as with most things on the left side of the aisle.

[JoCa]

5 minutes ago, Godless said:

A majority of black people, however, just want some white allies to empathize with their concerns and help bridge the divide.

Empathize??? My empathy will do jack for them.  You know what will help them out.  Get married, stay married, get off welfare, don't do drugs, get a job, work hard.  Do those things and it will turn out okay; I can't empathize for you when you don't follow the basics of how to actually get ahead in life. 

I've had the opportunity to be in black communities and the thing that always amazes me is that the actual modern immigrants from Africa have a harder work ethic, more spiritual and in general just better people than the blacks that go back 3-4 generations and kvetch about slavery.

[Guest Godless]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It means their protest has failed to some degree because it's not revolving around a certain, obvious goal. Like I mentioned before on my FB, this isn't like Muhammad Ali protesting the Vietnam war. He had distinct and obvious goals. I am assuring you that many professional athletes have no idea what they are protesting. It's more a bandwagon issue at this point. 

I agree. This past weekend especially, it felt like players were protesting Trump more than anything. And as cool as it was to see owners stand in solidarity with their players (and in defiance of Trump), it took the protest off-message. A few people in the black community took notice and called it out. Shannon Sharpe in particular had some scathing remarks for Ray Lewis and others who had never knelt prior to Trump's remarks.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Godless said:

I agree. This past weekend especially, it felt like players were protesting Trump more than anything. And as cool as it was to see owners stand in solidarity with their players (and in defiance of Trump), it took the protest off-message. A few people in the black community took notice and called it out. Shannon Sharpe in particular had some scathing remarks for Ray Lewis and others who had never knelt prior to Trump's remarks.

I'm increasingly beginning to hate them all. All sides. Everyone. Athletes who sit, stand, kneel, and especially those who do the YMCA during the national anthem.  

[Guest Godless]

2 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Empathize??? My empathy will do jack for them.  You know what will help them out.  Get married, stay married, get off welfare, don't do drugs, get a job, work hard.  Do those things and it will turn out okay; 

How will any of that prevent a black person from being discriminated against by a police officer? You keep bringing the race issue back to education and economic issues, but that's not what's at the heart of the protests. Having a job or a degree won't keep cops (and others) from judging you soley on the color of your skin. 

[JoCa]

9 minutes ago, Godless said:

How will any of that prevent a black person from being discriminated against by a police officer? You keep bringing the race issue back to education and economic issues, but that's not what's at the heart of the protests. Having a job or a degree won't keep cops (and others) from judging you soley on the color of your skin. 

As I have pointed out but you ignored, the majority of this violence occurs in cities that have a black mayor and a black police chief.  Come back when you start showing me actual real racism.  Maybe the black police chief is targeting black individuals in their cities b/c the majority of the population in those cities is black and therefor commit the majority of the crime.

Pretty simple .. . I've lived in a majority black county (90% black) and it wasn't "racism" that was keeping the black man down . . .that is for sure.  It was stupidity and lack of living basic commandments.  When the School Superintendent is arrested on embezzling millions of dollars, they put the guy on furlough, paid for his salary for 6 months and paid for his defense!  Can't get much more stupid than that.  The problem ain't the white police man oppressing the black man.

Edited September 30, 2017 by JoCa

[JoCa]

Look police reports are generated when either someone calls the police to report a crime and or the police are somehow notified that a crime has occurred.  In other words for the police to be on the look-out for a "black male age 24" means that someone reported to the police the description of a suspect that looked like that.  Police do not go around just making up police reports. 

So when the majority of crimes reported to a police station involve black individuals-it's not b/c the police are "racists" it's because the police are doing their job and trying to catch the perps.  So when the majority of individuals in jail are black; it's not b/c there is some systemic racism, it's b/c the majority of crimes are committed by blacks!!!

Now, if you want to argue about getting rid of some stupid laws, I'll be right there with you-I think the drug war is insane and we should do away with it.  But it's not systemic racism that causes the majority of jails to be filled with blacks-they are breaking the majority of the laws.