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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

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    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).
Sunday21

Dallin H. Oaks talk

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Fascinated to hear of the history of the Proclamation of the Family’s history in Bro Oaks talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/media/session_1_talk_6/5594186028001?lang=eng

Can anyone hazard a guess to what behaviours the Lord was trying to guard against? Surely, the Law of Chasity is well taught in the church? So?

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Exactly what Elder Oaks stated, which, it seems in many ways deal directly with the Law of Chastity and the disintegration of the family unit.  As he said, at the time (and maybe to many today, especially the faithful saints) it seemed obvious in regards to the family, so why should they make a statement in that regard.  However, they felt that they needed to and hence the prayed and got inspiration in regards to the Proclamation of the Family.

Today, the hazards that desire the destruction of the family have increased and grown to where, outside of strong Christian homes (which in my category also includes strong LDS homes)m there is a great confusion regarding the morality of the Lord vs. that of the world.  The world says that co-habitation before marriage is not only okay, but the standard thing for young people to do these days.  We know it is wrong, and the proclamation of the family reinforces this in case we ever get to be confused.

I believe it is things like that.

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43 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Fascinated to hear of the history of the Proclamation of the Family’s history in Bro Oaks talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/media/session_1_talk_6/5594186028001?lang=eng

Can anyone hazard a guess to what behaviours the Lord was trying to guard against? Surely, the Law of Chasity is well taught in the church? So?

I thought this was the best talk of the day, though I didn't see them all..

Edited by Grunt

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13 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I thought this was the best talk of the day, though I didn't see them all..

Darin Oaks is a great speaker! But many of the brethren are!

I can’t imagine that we need more input on chasity. Perhaps a message about divorce? 

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I saw some of the talks, but not all...not this one.  So perhaps I shouldn't comment, but I will anyway. :)  
 

30 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I can’t imagine that we need more input on chasity. Perhaps a message about divorce? 

Remember that the Proclamation on the Family is for the whole world . . .  And Elder Oaks did give a great talk about divorce a few years ago.  Also remember that one of the roles of the Prophet and the Twelve is to proclaim the gospel to all the world.  The family, as we know teach it should be, is on the "endangered list" if you will.  I think a talk about the Proclamation includes: Law of Chastity,  AND Divorce  just by the nature of being issues that affect the family.  Does that help at all?  

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53 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

The family, as we know teach it should be, is on the "endangered list" if you will.

On the endangered list and hunted openly as if the extinction thereof would make the world a better place.  I believe this is what it was meant to prepare us for, why we heard it yesterday, and why we'll keep hearing it.  Family used to be an assumption.  Now it's seen by all too many as something evil, backward, or unnecessary, and Satan is milking those attitudes for all they're worth.

A shocking number of today's evils can be traced directly to rejection of the teachings found in this document.

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17 minutes ago, zil said:

A shocking number of today's evils can be traced directly to rejection of the teachings found in this document.

To echo yours and @LiterateParakeet points this statement in the proclamation says it all:

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

The family is what the gospel is all about and Satan knows it. I think there is also danger within the Church of desensitization of the younger people when it comes to the world's idea that family can be what ever you want it to be.

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8 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@LiterateParakeet@zil. Yes, I agree with your statements! But in the talk Bro Oaks said the message was intended for members of the church. You can barely take a step without having a lesson on Chasity so...wondering why the need for the proclamation? 

Given that there are members all over the place who think "it's only a matter of time" before the Church allows same-sex couples to be sealed in the temple, I'd say we very much need it.  If the world is fighting against families, the Church must defend them, and it must start with the membership.

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The progressive game is one of incrementalism, and the tactics used by Mormon progressives are no different—they change things by degrees, gaslighting us into thinking that if we disagree with them it’s because we’re moving rightwards; rather than acknowledging that it is they who are moving leftwards.

The value of the POTF isn’t necessarily tell us anything we didn’t know—but it reminds us of how long we’ve known it; and it does serve as a sort of doctrinal hitching post.  It’s not canon, but it’s very nearly so and it serves the same purpose:  as long as we’re visibly tied to it, it becomes clear to outsiders that our doctrine on chastity isn’t going to change. 

Thats why our libertine wing hates it so much.

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PS: I'm kinda baffled by all the mention of "The Law of Chastity" in this thread.  The proclamation seems to cover an awful lot more than that, and Elder Oaks' talk didn't seem to me to be putting explicit emphasis on this (though I suppose any time you talk explicitly about marriage as defined in the proclamation, that law is implicit).

Edited by zil

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11 minutes ago, zil said:

Given that there are members all over the place who think "it's only a matter of time" before the Church allows same-sex couples to be sealed in the temple, I'd say we very much need it.  If the world is fighting against families, the Church must defend them, and it must start with the membership.

I'm amazed by this and it would sincerely shake my faith.

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1 minute ago, zil said:

PS: I'm kinda baffled by all the mention of "The Law of Chastity" in this thread.  The proclamation seems to cover an awful lot more than that, and Elder Oaks' talk didn't seem to me to be putting explicit emphasis on this (though I suppose any time you take explicitly about marriage as defined in the proclamation, that law is implicit).

I second this.

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Just now, Grunt said:

I'm amazed by this and it would sincerely shake my faith.

Which "this"?  That there are members who think it's only a matter of time, or...?

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Just now, zil said:

Which "this"?  That there are members who think it's only a matter of time, or...?

That same-sex couples would be sealed in the temple.  That isn't just a "small step" in doctrine.  How can you be Mormon and wish the church to move away from God?

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1 minute ago, Grunt said:

That same-sex couples would be sealed in the temple.  That isn't just a "small step" in doctrine.  How can you be Mormon and wish the church to move away from God?

I don't think there's a large percentage who think this, but members who do think it seem to be scattered about here and there voicing their opinions on the matter.  It baffles me that one can be an adult and not comprehend biology, and be a member of the Church and not comprehend something so foundational as the role of families, especially husband and wife, in the eternities.

(I get willful blindness, as I've been guilty of it myself, may still be today, but not with things that are so foundational.)

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It is my belief and concern that we live in a precarious and dangerous time.  Perhaps I view things differently but I do not believe G-d has ever destroyed any human society – even the society during the flood of Noah.  I believe, rather that G-d protects and maintains mankind in order to preserve us during our fragile mortality.  I believe that from time to time an entire social structure becomes so corrupt that G-d can no longer protect such society – without G-d’s protection Satan will destroy any human society by whatever means available and allowed.

One aspect of humanity that G-d protects and preserves is the family.  I believe that the “Proclamation to the World” is a prophetic warning to any society (or individual) that reject support of the family in favor for something (anything) else.  It appears to me that as long as a society will allow a few righteous among them – that society can be preserved but when they are ripe – meaning that they will not tolerate righteous individuals – G-d will no longer protect them from total destruction and they will experience what it is like to be under Satan’s power.

 

The Traveler

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Ok! Thanks everyone! I was wondering if there was some new thing on the horizon that I was not aware of because the law of... (let me get this right) chastity (too many ‘t’s in that word) surely cannot be mentioned more often. I just remember when pornography became something that became a problem. I did not even know that women were likely to be afflicted in this way. In fact, when we teach a talk in Relief Society here and the subject comes up, we all guffaw and say, Well that’s for the brethren! Which is not very nice of us. When I first returned to church, I could not understand 1/2 the conference talks and it was my job to teach them, which was tricky. And I never understood any talk given by a woman. Never! 

For the last year, I have been able to understand every conference talk which is a considerable improvement. So when I listened to Bro Oak, I was wondering if there was some secret message. I think the message must be divorce, same sex marriage.

Dont ask me how Grunt can understand the talks in his 2nd language! He must have been valiant in the pre-existence! It is funny because I spend a lot of time extracting detail from purple prose in my work but religious texts were really tough for me. The struggles of a former atheist! I have found religious talks quite difficult to decipher but in the last year, I have got much better!

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14 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

It is my belief and concern that we live in a precarious and dangerous time.  Perhaps I view things differently but I do not believe G-d has ever destroyed any human society – even the society during the flood of Noah.  I believe, rather that G-d protects and maintains mankind in order to preserve us during our fragile mortality.  I believe that from time to time an entire social structure becomes so corrupt that G-d can no longer protect such society – without G-d’s protection Satan will destroy any human society by whatever means available and allowed.

One aspect of humanity that G-d protects and preserves is the family.  I believe that the “Proclamation to the World” is a prophetic warning to any society (or individual) that reject support of the family in favor for something (anything) else.  It appears to me that as long as a society will allow a few righteous among them – that society can be preserved but when they are ripe – meaning that they will not tolerate righteous individuals – G-d will no longer protect them from total destruction and they will experience what it is like to be under Satan’s power.

 

The Traveler

Maybe Bro Oaks is concerned that we may opt to have few or no children?

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6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Fascinated to hear of the history of the Proclamation of the Family’s history in Bro Oaks talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/media/session_1_talk_6/5594186028001?lang=eng

Can anyone hazard a guess to what behaviours the Lord was trying to guard against? Surely, the Law of Chasity is well taught in the church? So?

I think he is responding to the increasing and incessant societal pressure on everyone, including saints, to give their full, undiscriminating blessing for same-sex marriage, cohabitation and single parenting, and the fulfilling of parental ambitions through commercial surrogacy and artificial insemination without the child being reared within the bonds of traditional marriage. In other words, to cultivate uninspired expectations that the Church doctrine a and ordinances should likewise change, and can change if societal norms would only change among the  members.

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6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Can anyone hazard a guess to what behaviours the Lord was trying to guard against? Surely, the Law of Chasity is well taught in the church? So?

This:

 

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

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