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    • Heather

      Mormon Hub Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting   04/17/08

        Any views expressed on Mormon Hub are independent of and do not represent the views of Mormon Hub, More Good Foundation, or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Site Rules 1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere. 2. Please be conscious of the fact that although Mormon Hub is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of Mormon Hub are welcome to participate and be a member of Mormon Hub. Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members. Please define any LDS vocabulary that friends of other faiths may not understand (i.e. Mutual, Relief Society, and Deacon.) 3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated. 4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post. 5. No cursing or crude language. Any swearing, including filter skipping, will result in an automatic one week suspension. 6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules. List of site moderators Course of action that should be taken if you have a concern: - Send a message directly to the moderator you have a concern about. If you are unable to work out the problem then, - Send a message to the head moderators. - If after you have approached both avenues, you may then send a message to Heather; however know that Heather is very unlikely to over rule anything that has been sanctioned by the moderators and head moderators. 7. Multiple accounts are not allowed and will result in all accounts being banned from the site. 8. Please do not share any "true" or "faith promoting" stories, unless you can verify the source. 9. Do not post any copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you. 10. Bigoted/racial/ethnic comments will not be tolerated. Political Neutrality Policy More Good Foundation, as a nonprofit foundation, must remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. The foundation encourages its members and staff to be informed about political issues and to be engaged in civic life; however, it does not endorse or oppose any political parties, candidates, or platforms. Mormon Hub will allow political discussion, also long as all posts remain neutral with respect to partisan politics and candidate campaigns for public office. You may not use the site to show support, endorse, oppose or sanction any candidate. In addition, all posts must be respectful and sensitive to readers of all political beliefs and backgrounds. Any post that violates any of the above conditions will be dealt with according to the consequences of breaking the rules. As a non-profit organization, 501©3, we are governed by legal constraints relative to writing, blogging, or otherwise endorsing any candidate running for political office. The law states, in effect, that no one acting on behalf of the nonprofit can intervene directly or indirectly in the election process by endorsing a political candidate. Any post that speaks favorably about one candidate, even in a religious context, can be construed as indirect intervention in the election process. While journalists are presently exempt from this provision, bloggers and forum-members are not. 12. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. 13. You will not use this site to solicit the sale of any product, service or website. You will not use this site to promote a money making venture or contest. If appropriate, you may post a link to your personal website or to your business on your profile, in your forum signature, and you make create one post in the web link section of the forum. Do not post any link or discuss any business, service, or website that violates any rule of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the content of any site linked on Mormon Hub. Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case basis. Anything that an Administrator or Moderator determines is more than just an infraction of the rules, will result in immediate banning from the site and/or legal action: First infraction will result in a warning and a message from a moderator on what rule was broken. Second infraction will result in a one week suspension followed by a two week moderator post approval Third infraction will result in banned from the site for good. Any topic, message, video, music, image, or other upload or submission to the site that breaks any rules will be deleted. Please remember that we are not responsible for anything posted or uploaded. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message or upload. We are not responsible for the contents of any message, video, image, post or upload. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Mormon Hub , More Good Foundation, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact the Administration immediately by Private Message, Email, or Report a Post. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages and uploads within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. Mormon Hub Terms of Use Agreement January 8, 2008 Mormon Hub is a social networking service that allows Members to create unique personal profiles online in order to find and communicate with old and new friends. Mormon Hub refers to "Mormon Hub or its proprietors." The services offered by Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub" or "we") include the Mormon Hub website (the "Mormon Hub Website"), the Mormon Hub Internet messaging service, and any other features, content, or applications offered from time to time by Mormon Hub in connection with the Mormon Hub Website (collectively, the "Mormon Hub Services"). The Mormon Hub Services are hosted in the U.S. This Terms of Use Agreement ("Agreement") sets forth the legally binding terms for your use of the Mormon Hub Services. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you agree to be bound by this Agreement, whether you are a "Visitor" (which means that you simply browse the Mormon Hub Website) or you are a "Member" (which means that you have registered with Mormon Hub). The term "User" refers to a Visitor or a Member. You are only authorized to use the Mormon Hub Services (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws and to this Agreement. Please read this Agreement carefully and save it. If you do not agree with it, you should leave the Mormon Hub Website and discontinue use of the Mormon Hub Services immediately. If you wish to become a Member, communicate with other Members and make use of the Mormon Hub Services, you must read this Agreement and indicate your acceptance during the Registration process. This Agreement includes Mormon Hub's policy for acceptable use of the Mormon Hub Services and Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website, your rights, obligations and restrictions regarding your use of the Mormon Hub Services and Mormon Hub's Privacy Policy. In order to participate in certain Mormon Hub Services, you may be notified that you are required to download software or content and/or agree to additional terms and conditions. Unless otherwise provided by the additional terms and conditions applicable to the Mormon Hub Services in which you choose to participate, those additional terms are hereby incorporated into this Agreement.  Mormon Hub may modify this Agreement from time to time and such modification shall be effective upon posting by Mormon Hub on the Mormon Hub Website. You agree to be bound to any changes to this Agreement when you use the Mormon Hub Services after any such modification is posted. It is therefore important that you review this Agreement regularly to ensure you are updated as to any changes. Please choose carefully the information you post on Mormon Hub and that you provide to other Users. You may NOT include any of the following information anywhere on Mormon Hub, including private messages: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, and any photographs containing nudity, or obscene, lewd, excessively violent, harassing, sexually explicit or otherwise objectionable subject matter. Email addresses should NEVER be posted to the general public. Despite this prohibition, information provided by other Mormon Hub Members (for instance, in their Profile) may contain inaccurate, inappropriate, offensive or sexually explicit material, products or services, and Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility or liability for this material. If you become aware of misuse of the Mormon Hub Services by any person, please contact Mormon Hub or click on the "Report Inappropriate Content" link at the bottom of any Mormon Hub page. Mormon Hub reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to moderate, reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including private messages) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Mormon Hub Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability. Mormon Hub expressly reserves the right to remove your profile and/or restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of Mormon Hub Services if Mormon Hub determines, in its sole discretion, that you pose a threat to Mormon Hub and/or its Users. Mormon Hub reserves the right to ask a member to change their username if it is found to be offensive or can be perceived as offensive. Due to the sacredness, this would include any usernames that include, Jesus, Christ, God, Lord, names of Prophets, General authorities etc. The names of personal or business websites, blogs, etc. to promote said sites is also prohibited. Using names of political figures or party affiliation is also prohibited. 1. Eligibility. Use of and Membership in the Mormon Hub Services is void where prohibited. By using the Mormon Hub Services, you represent and warrant that (a) all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate; ( B) you will maintain the accuracy of such information; © you are 14 years of age or older; and (d) your use of the Mormon Hub Services does not violate any applicable law or regulation. Your profile may be deleted and your Membership may be terminated without warning, if we believe that you are under 13 years of age. 2. Term. This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the Mormon Hub Services or are a Member. You may terminate your Membership at any time, for any reason, emailing an admin. Mormon Hub may terminate your Membership at any time, without warning. Even after Membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect, including sections 5-17. 3. Password. When you sign up to become a Member, you will also be asked to choose a password. You are entirely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password. You agree not to use the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or to disclose your password to any third party. You agree to notify Mormon Hub immediately if you suspect any unauthorized use of your account or access to your password. You are solely responsible for any and all use of your account. 4. Non-commercial Use by Members. The Mormon Hub Services are for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by Mormon Hub. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of Members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email or unauthorized framing of or linking to the Mormon Hub Website is prohibited. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from Member profiles without notice and may result in termination of Membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken for any illegal or unauthorized use of the Mormon Hub Services. 5. Proprietary Rights in Content on Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the Mormon Hub Services. After posting your Content to the Mormon Hub Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services, you hereby grant to Mormon Hub a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the Mormon Hub Services.
      Without this license, Mormon Hub would be unable to provide the Mormon Hub Services. For example, without the right to modify Member Content, Mormon Hub would not be able to digitally compress music files that Members submit or otherwise format Content to satisfy technical requirements, and without the right to publicly perform Member Content, Mormon Hub could not allow Users to listen to music posted by Members. The license you grant to Mormon Hub is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your Content to anyone else in addition to Mormon Hub), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Mormon Hub is not required to pay you for the use on the Mormon Hub Services of the Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Mormon Hub is able to use its affiliates and subcontractors such as Internet content delivery networks to provide the Mormon Hub Services), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Mormon Hub Services are global in reach). This license will terminate at the time you remove your Content from the Mormon Hub Services. The license does not grant Mormon Hub the right to sell your Content, nor does the license grant Mormon Hub the right to distribute your Content outside of the Mormon Hub Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Mormon Hub Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the LDS.Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Mormon Hub ("Mormon Hub Content"). Mormon Hub Content is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other laws, and Mormon Hub owns and retains all rights in the Mormon Hub Content and the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub hereby grants you a limited, revocable, nonsublicensable license to reproduce and display the Mormon Hub Content (excluding any software code) solely for your personal use in connection with viewing the Mormon Hub Website and using the Mormon Hub Services. The Mormon Hub Services contain Content of Users and other Mormon Hub licensors. Except for Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on or through the Mormon Hub Services.   6. Content Posted. Mormon Hub may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of Mormon Hub violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for monitoring the Mormon Hub Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time Mormon Hub chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the Mormon Hub Services, Mormon Hub nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the Mormon Hub Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. Mormon Hub does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by Mormon Hub prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Mormon Hub. Mormon Hub makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.   7. Content/Activity Prohibited. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited to post on or through the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Mormon Hub Services and terminating the Membership of such violators. Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Mormon Hub: is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual; harasses or advocates harassment of another person; exploits people in a sexual or violent manner; contains nudity, violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website; solicits personal information from anyone; provides any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs or email addresses; promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous; promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files; involves the transmission of "junk mail," "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing, instant messaging, "spimming," or "spamming"; contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page); furthers or promotes any criminal activity or enterprise or provides instructional information about illegal activities including, but not limited to making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, or providing or creating computer viruses; solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other Users; involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes; includes a photograph of another person that you have posted without that person's consent; or uses sexually suggestive imagery or any other unfair, misleading or deceptive Content intended to draw traffic to the profile.
      The following is a partial list of the kind of activity that is illegal or prohibited on the Mormon Hub Website and through your use of the Mormon Hub Services. Mormon Hub reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Mormon Hub's sole discretion, violates this provision, including without limitation, reporting you to law enforcement authorities. Prohibited activity includes, but is not limited to: criminal or tortuous activity, including child pornography, fraud, trafficking in obscene material, drug dealing, gambling, harassment, stalking, spamming, spimming, sending of viruses or other harmful files, copyright infringement, patent infringement, or theft of trade secrets; advertising to, or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Mormon Hub Services. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. It is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, Mormon Hub reserves the right to restrict the number of emails which a Member may send to other Members in any 24-hour period to a number which Mormon Hub deems appropriate in its sole discretion. If you breach this Agreement and send unsolicited bulk email, instant messages or other unsolicited communications of any kind through the Mormon Hub Services, you acknowledge that you will have caused substantial harm to Mormon Hub, but that the amount of such harm would be extremely difficult to ascertain. As a reasonable estimation of such harm, you agree to pay Mormon Hub $50 for each such unsolicited email or other unsolicited communication you send through the Mormon Hub Services; covering or obscuring the banner advertisements on your personal profile page, or any Mormon Hub page via HTML/CSS or any other means; any automated use of the system, such as using scripts to add friends or send comments or messages; interfering with, disrupting, or creating an undue burden on the Mormon Hub Services or the networks or services connected to the Mormon Hub Services; attempting to impersonate another Member or person; copying the code for your Mormon Hub Player and embedding it into other profiles or asking other Members to embed it into their profiles; using the account, username, or password of another Member at any time or disclosing your password to any third party or permitting any third party to access your account; selling or otherwise transferring your profile; using any information obtained from the Mormon Hub Services in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person; displaying an advertisement on your profile, or accepting payment or anything of value from a third person in exchange for your performing any commercial activity on or through the Mormon Hub Services on behalf of that person, such as placing commercial content on your profile, posting blogs or bulletins with a commercial purpose, selecting a profile with a commercial purpose as one of your "Top" friends, or sending private messages with a commercial purpose; or using the Mormon Hub Services in a manner inconsistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.   8. Copyright Policy. You may not post, modify, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information belonging to others without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of Mormon Hub to terminate Membership privileges of any Member who repeatedly infringes the copyright rights of others upon receipt of proper notification to Mormon Hub by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on the Mormon Hub Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the Mormon Hub Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. 9. Member Disputes. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Mormon Hub Members. Mormon Hub reserves the right, but has no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members. 10. Privacy. Use of the Mormon Hub Services is also governed by our Privacy Policy, which is incorporated into this Agreement by this reference. 11. Disclaimers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the Mormon Hub Website or in connection with the Mormon Hub Services, whether caused by Users of the Mormon Hub Services or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Mormon Hub Services. Profiles created and posted by Members on the Mormon Hub Website may contain links to other websites. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the Content, accuracy or opinions expressed on such websites, and such websites are in no way investigated, monitored or checked for accuracy or completeness by Mormon Hub. Inclusion of any linked website on the Mormon Hub Services does not imply approval or endorsement of the linked website by Mormon Hub. When you access these third-party sites, you do so at your own risk. Mormon Hub takes no responsibility for third party advertisements which are posted on this Mormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers. Mormon Hub is not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any User of the Mormon Hub Services.Mormon Hub assumes no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any User or Member communication. Mormon Hub is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or on any of the Mormon Hub Services or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to Users or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the Mormon Hub Services. Under no circumstances shall Mormon Hub be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from use of the Mormon Hub Services, attendance at a Mormon Hub event, from any Content posted on or through the Mormon Hub Services, or from the conduct of any Users of the Mormon Hub Services, whether online or offline. 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Software available in connection with the Mormon Hub Services (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the Mormon Hub Services or otherwise exported or re-exported in violation of U.S. export laws. Downloading or using the Software is at your sole risk. 14. Disputes. If there is any dispute about or involving the Mormon Hub Services, you agree that the dispute shall be governed by the laws of the State of Utah, USA, without regard to conflict of law provisions and you agree to exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue in the state and federal courts of the United States located in the State of Utah, City of Orem. Either Mormon Hub or you may demand that any dispute between Mormon Hub and you about or involving the Mormon Hub Services must be settled by arbitration utilizing the dispute resolution procedures of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) in Orem, Utah, USA, provided that the foregoing shall not prevent Mormon Hub from seeking injunctive relief in a court of competent jurisdiction. 15. Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold Mormon Hub, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Mormon Hub Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on theMormon Hub Website or through the Mormon Hub Services causes Mormon Hub to be liable to another. 16. Other. This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the Mormon Hub Website or any of the Mormon Hub Services and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Mormon Hub regarding the use of the Mormon Hub Services. The failure of Mormon Hub to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Mormon Hub is a trademark of Mormon Hub, Inc. This Agreement operates to the fullest extent permissible by law. If any provision of this Agreement is unlawful, void or unenforceable, that provision is deemed severable from this Agreement and does not affect the validity and enforceability of any remaining provisions. Please contact us at: Contact Mormon Hub with any questions regarding this Agreement.   Use the online HTML tidy to compose similar articles in your web browser.
    • rpframe

      IMPORTANT!! -- Login Issues   09/12/17

      TL;DR; In order to fix login issues, a lot of people will have to reset their password. As of now, if you are unable to login, please attempt a "Forgot Password"/"Password Reset" (check your spam folder) and if that doesn't work then feel free to Contact Us, for help and please check back on this post for any status updates and FAQs as we go through this process. FAQ:
      [Reserved Space]
      Firstly, I'd like to apologize on behalf of MormonHub for the frustration of the login system. There is a lot of cool things we could do with the login system, and having the logins synced up between our forum system and our front end system has been nice, but for multiple reasons (not just the current login issues), we have decided to move back to the earlier login system. While I would love to be able to migrate everyone's current passwords back, but the systems are just not compatible that way. So a large number of users will need to do a password reset. We realize that we forced everyone to do this on the move to the new system, and we sincerely apologize to everyone that will have to do it again. The Login System has now been swapped over. Give us a little bit of time to work out kinks in the system (will post updates here). If you are unable to login anymore, then please perform a password reset (check spam folder) and if that fails and we don't have any acknowledgement of problems on this post (No known problems at this time), then feel free to contact us (keeping in mind that there are a lot of you and very few of us).

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“We’re past ‘thoughts and prayers,’ declares some politicians. A couple of them even refused to join a moment of silence for victims of the Las Vegas shooting. Similarly, in discussing the NFL kneeling controversy, one commentator defended the protesters by saying Christians were hypocrites, because we kneel in church all the time. Where did this relatively recent anti-religious tone and content come from? Why the vitriol—especially against Christians? I’ve always considered those I disagree with, whether about politics, social issues, or religion, to be loyal Americans. Increasingly, I see them as folks who may love America, but who might really hate me. How sad.

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I think it's a consequence of the continued destruction of the family. As we see more and more people raised in faithless, chaotic households it leads to a sharp increase in anti religious thoughts and behaivor. At this point, I bet a good chunk of people are several generations removed from anyone who had a solid testimony of the Savior, and being raised with either a complete absense of moral teaching or constantly shifting morals leads to this behaivor. I've run into this anti religious vitriol even amongst family and friends who know me very well and should know better. I find it sad as well.

Edited by Midwest LDS

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5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

“We’re past ‘thoughts and prayers,’ declares some politicians. A couple of them even refused to join a moment of silence for victims of the Las Vegas shooting. Similarly, in discussing the NFL kneeling controversy, one commentator defended the protesters by saying Christians were hypocrites, because we kneel in church all the time. Where did this relatively recent anti-religious tone and content come from? Why the vitriol—especially against Christians? I’ve always considered those I disagree with, whether about politics, social issues, or religion, to be loyal Americans. Increasingly, I see them as folks who may love America, but who might really hate me. How sad.

Quote

And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

2 Nephi 32:8

Is it really a surprise that someone who believes "We're past...prayer" hates Christians?

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Let's look at the current President of the United States.  He has been married three times.  The first divorce was caused by adultery with the woman who would become wife number 2.  He has been known to be extremely disrespectful of women.  He mocks the disabled.  He disrespects American Veterans and Heroes (such as John McCain).  This is who the people of America choose to be their president.

However, this is only the latest of a downward spiral of the morality of Presidents the US has been choosing recently.  They had two presidents prior that admitted to trying Marijuana.  The one before that cheated of his wife WHILE IN THE OVAL OFFICE itself. 

This trend is representative of the overall trend of the US morality itself.  As they People of the US move further and further from morality and the Law of the Lord, we will see more and more of them identify the Lord as their enemy.  As enemies of the Lord, is it any surprise that they would also be enemies of those who follow the Lord (aka...Christians).  In fact, if the Book of Revelations is any indicator, as well as other prophets that foretold of these times, we know that their numbers will get larger and more fierce. 

We can feel sadness at the way the world is going, but at the same time we can rejoice, because as the signs become more apparent and the world becomes more as predicted, it means that for us, the faithful, the time appointed for the Lord to return and rule is coming closer than ever before.

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When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies. Some of these guys offering "thoughts and prayers" support legalized silencers, high capacity magazines, and decreased health coverage for people with mental illnesses. It makes those thoughts and prayers ring very hollow when they refuse to work towards solutions. Those of us who aren't religious view prayer as an empty gesture unless it's backed up with actions.  

I'm not saying that the vilification of the religious is justified. Just trying to explain where it's probably coming from.

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42 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Let's look at the current President of the United States.  He has been married three times.  The first divorce was caused by adultery with the woman who would become wife number 2.  He has been known to be extremely disrespectful of women.  He mocks the disabled.  He disrespects American Veterans and Heroes (such as John McCain).  This is who the people of America choose to be their president.

However, this is only the latest of a downward spiral of the morality of Presidents the US has been choosing recently. 

That, of course, is a lot of Fake News.  He is not especially disrespectful of women, he did not mock the disabled and he doesn't disrespect American Veterans and Heroes.  John McCain deserves to be disrespected not because he's an American Veteran and Hero but because he's a corrupt piece of Congressional garbage who has used his POW status to sell his soul.

Thomas Jefferson was an adulterer, JFK was fooling around with Marilyn Monroe.  And Bill Clinton is a rapist.  People have been choosing immoral people for ages.  We don't elect politicians for their sins.  We elect politicians for their ability to keep government from usurping power it shouldn't have and to exercise wisdom with the power they do have.

From the election of 1800:  (under a Jefferson presidency), “[m]urder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced.” - Connecticut Courant

Edited by anatess2

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30 minutes ago, Godless said:

When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies. Some of these guys offering "thoughts and prayers" support legalized silencers, high capacity magazines, and decreased health coverage for people with mental illnesses. It makes those thoughts and prayers ring very hollow when they refuse to work towards solutions. Those of us who aren't religious view prayer as an empty gesture unless it's backed up with actions.  

I'm not saying that the vilification of the religious is justified. Just trying to explain where it's probably coming from.

Godless, I think there may actually be room here for a discussion about—say—bump stocks.  But when we start going off about specific “solutions” that clearly wouldn’t have prevented or mitigated the incident precipitating the discussion, it just looks like political opportunism.  

I’m sure I don’t need to tell you this, given your military background.  But for the benefit of others:  Silencers don’t make you stealthy; trained and prepared shooters can swap out magazines with barely a pause; and in this case, no one had any idea (and AFAIK it still hasn’t been firmly established) that the shooter had mental health issues. (c.f. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?nid&utm_term=.d6f254757e1d)

So the problem isn’t just that people are frustrated with one side’s stonewalling; it’s that the other side is presenting false solutions and then demagoguing anyone who won’t hop on their political bandwagon. 

But I do agree with @JohnsonJones that Trump has been a big factor in taking that kind of demagoguery mainstream.  And while dishonesty in politicians is par for the course, the Trumpian variant of “who are you gonna believe?  Me, or your own lyin’ eyes” in-your-face-ism has nudged America as a whole into a brave new world of political discourse.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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27 minutes ago, Godless said:

When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies. Some of these guys offering "thoughts and prayers" support legalized silencers, high capacity magazines, and decreased health coverage for people with mental illnesses. It makes those thoughts and prayers ring very hollow when they refuse to work towards solutions. Those of us who aren't religious view prayer as an empty gesture unless it's backed up with actions.  

I'm not saying that the vilification of the religious is justified. Just trying to explain where it's probably coming from.

This is PRIMUM EXEMPLUM of the "muh feels" politics of today's American liberal and the main reason why I can't identify as one.  Today's American Liberal as represented by the Democrat Party peddles the DISGUSTING propaganda that IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THEIR STUPID SOLUTIONS then YOU MUST BE DOING NOTHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM.

This is the politics of Guilt Trip that the Democrat Party is running on.  And frankly, the Democrat Party needs to be stomped all the way until it ceases to exist.

 

Edited by anatess2

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39 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Godless, I think there may actually be room here for a discussion about—say—bump stocks.  But when we start going off about specific “solutions” that clearly wouldn’t have prevented or mitigated the incident precipitating the discussion,it just looks like political opportunism.  

I’m sure I don’t need to tell you this, given your military background.  But for the benefit of others:  Silencers don’t make you stealthy; trained and prepared shooters can swap out magazines with barely a pause; and in this case, no one had any idea (and it still hasn’t been firmly established) that the shooter had mental health issues.

The solutions we want to talk about aren't just about Vegas. We've been talking about these things since Sandy Hook, Pulse, and San Bernardino. The silencer and magazine issues have some merit. Yes, a skilled shooter can overcome those sorts of obstacles. But if we can stop the effeciency of a few unskilled shooters, then doesn't that make the issues worth considering at the very least? Heck, one fairly incompetent terrorist tried and failed to blow up an airplane with a shoe, and now everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport even though no one has ever been killed by a shoe in this country. 

As for mental health, has it occured to you that the reason so many people with mental illnesses are undiagnosed is because of the cost of health care in this country? Heck, before I got on my wife's insurance there were multiple instances when I thought I may have broken a finger or a toe at work, but I didn't bother to go to a doctor to find out because I couldn't afford it. I think it's reasonable to think that there are people out there treating mental illness the same way. Therapy and psychiatric help aren't viable options for a lot of people in this country. 

Quote

So the problem isn’t just that people are frustrated with one side’s stonewalling; it’s that the other side is presenting false solutions and then demagoguing anyone who won’t hop on their political bandwagon.

There's stonewalling and then there's debate. What you and I are doing now is debate. What @anatess2 is doing in the above post is stonewalling. We've heard too many times in recent years "This isn't the time to talk about this". Then the issue grows cold until the next shooting. I don't expect the right to jump on board with all of my ideas, but let's talk about them at the very least. Because shrugging our shoulders and saying "whelp, nothing we could do" isn't working. It's time go get ahead of the issue of violence in this country rather than chasing it down every time tragedy strikes. If you're tired of "false solutions" from the left, then I'd love to hear some from the right. But it seems like their solution is always more guns. There has to be a better solution, right?

Edited by Godless

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55 minutes ago, Godless said:

When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies. Some of these guys offering "thoughts and prayers" support legalized silencers, high capacity magazines, and decreased health coverage for people with mental illnesses. It makes those thoughts and prayers ring very hollow when they refuse to work towards solutions. Those of us who aren't religious view prayer as an empty gesture unless it's backed up with actions. 

The fact that "these guys" have a different idea than you of what the solution is doesn't give you the right to question their morality any more than you would accept the claim that liberals are just lazy and want free handouts.

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Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

The fact that "these guys" have a different idea than you of what the solution is doesn't give you the right to question their morality any more than you would accept the claim that liberals are just lazy and want free handouts.

The conservative solution, as far as I can tell, is typically "prayers and more guns". Other than that, conservatives tend to be pretty quiet about solutions during times like these. Like I told JAG, if you have other ideas to offer, I'd love to hear and discuss them. I'm not claiming to have the answers, but sometimes it feels like the effort to find those answers is very one-sided. 

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27 minutes ago, Godless said:

There's stonewalling and then there's debate. What you and I are doing now is debate. What @anatess2 is doing in the above post is stonewalling. We've heard too many times in recent years "This isn't the time to talk about this". Then the issue grows cold until the next shooting. I don't expect the right to jump on board with all of my ideas, but let's talk about them at the very least. Because shrugging our shoulders and saying "whelp, nothing we could do" isn't working. It's time go get ahead of the issue of violence in this country rather than chasing it down every time tragedy strikes. If you're tired of "false solutions" from the left, then I'd love to hear some from the right. But it seems like their solution is always more guns. There has to be a better solution, right?

Really, Godless?  This is your idea of debate:  "When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies."?

Gun control has been proposed and shut down plenty of times on the Congress floor.  That is because, guns IS NOT THE PROBLEM in the same manner that the car is not the problem with vehicular homicide.  But yeah, that would be stonewalling according to the politics of the left who are led by a bunch of Communists.

Solutions from the Right - Tax Reform, Immigration Control,  Drug Control, Reduction of Regulation, Reduction of the Welfare State, Pro-Life, anti Gay Marriage - all policies that reduce poverty, makes stronger families, and increasing value of life.  All basic ingredients to forming a grievance-free citizenry.

Solutions from the Left - "the minorities are oppresed", "cops are racists", "college males are rapists", "the military are murderers", free abortions, gay marriage, increase taxes, regulate the crap out of every money-making business, gun control.  How does this reduce the desire of people to kill other people?

Edited by anatess2

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Just now, Godless said:

The conservative solution, as far as I can tell, is typically "prayers and more guns". Other than that, conservatives tend to be pretty quiet about solutions during times like these. Like I told JAG, if you have other ideas to offer, I'd love to hear and discuss them. I'm not claiming to have the answers, but sometimes it feels like the effort to find those answers is very one-sided. 

It is unreasonable, in my opinion, to propose unrelated, meaningless solutions simply because an obvious one isn't at hand. When you or someone suggests after a tragedy of this sort that we need stricter silencer laws and someone like me responds by saying, "How would that have helped? That makes no sense." And you respond by claiming that I therefore don't care about the victims I cry foul.

I don't know, personally, what the solution is. But I know the legalization or not of silencers doesn't have anything to do with it.

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4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Really, Godless?  This is your idea of debate:  "When a tragedy like this occurs, the conservative voices offering "thoughts and prayers" are often also the ones who resist any reasonable effort to prevent future tragedies."?

And so far you've proven me right. 

Gun control has been proposed and shut down plenty of times on the Congress floor.  That is because, gun control IS NOT THE PROBLEM. 

If gun control isn't the problem, then what is? Serious question. I want to know what you think is the cause of attacks like this and what your ideas are to try to tackle it. I took my jabs at the right, yes, but then I offered some ideas for discussion that I think could help moving forward. Now it's your turn. 

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Just now, Godless said:

If gun control isn't the problem, then what is? 

Morality.

It astounds me that leftist ideology pushes relative morality and then seems oblivious to the consequences of relative morality.

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3 minutes ago, Godless said:

And so far you've proven me right. 

So far, you've proven to be just another "muh feels" American liberal.

 

3 minutes ago, Godless said:

If gun control isn't the problem, then what is? Serious question. I want to know what you think is the cause of attacks like this and what your ideas are to try to tackle it. I took my jabs at the right, yes, but then I offered some ideas for discussion that I think could help moving forward. Now it's your turn. 

PEOPLE WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE IS THE PROBLEM.  DUH.

@mirkwood has a cart full of firearms.  Tell me how many mass shootings do you think mirkwood has been in and is about to engage in?

Now, if you would read my entire post above you'd see that the Right has the right solutions to the problem.

Edited by anatess2

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It is unreasonable, in my opinion, to propose unrelated, meaningless solutions simply because an obvious one isn't at hand. When you or someone suggests after a tragedy of this sort that we need stricter silencer laws and someone like me responds by saying, "How would that have helped? That makes no sense." And you respond by claiming that I therefore don't care about the victims I cry foul.

I don't know, personally, what the solution is. But I know the legalization or not of silencers doesn't have anything to do with it.

A week ago no one was talking about bump stocks. I don't think it's unreasonable to try to get ahead of the next potential threat while reacting to past events. We did that all the time in Iraq. We were constantly reacting to insurgents attacks and adjusting our tactics accordingly, but we were also proactive in trying to stay one step ahead of them. 

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Morality.

It astounds me that leftist ideology pushes relative morality and then seems oblivious to the consequences of relative morality.

If that's the case, then why do countries far more liberal than us have fewer tragedies like this? Why is it that the US, a country that is arguably more religious and less liberal on the whole than most other Western nations, has so many more mass shootings?

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Just now, Godless said:

A week ago no one was talking about bump stocks. I don't think it's unreasonable to try to get ahead of the next potential threat while reacting to past events. We did that all the time in Iraq. We were constantly reacting to insurgents attacks and adjusting our tactics accordingly, but we were also proactive in trying to stay one step ahead of them. 

I don't disagree. It is the proposal that various gun control measures -- like limiting silencers -- are the best means to get ahead of potential threats that I question. (Note: I do not object to all gun control initiatives). What I do object to is the idea that my belief in that matter means I must not care about the victims or the potential threats. I don't think gun control is, frankly, doable, however. There are something like 300 million guns in the US. Trying to take them away would literally cause civil war. Beyond that, limiting clip sizes and the like is not going to do anything to curb incidents like what happened in Vegas.

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2 minutes ago, Godless said:

A week ago no one was talking about bump stocks. 

Correction:  A week ago, the media was not talking about bump stocks.

My 14-year-old knows about bump stocks before Las Vegas.

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6 minutes ago, Godless said:

If that's the case, then why do countries far more liberal than us have fewer tragedies like this? Why is it that the US, a country that is arguably more religious and less liberal on the whole than most other Western nations, has so many more mass shootings?

Statistics do not support your less guns = less gun violence theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

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12 minutes ago, Godless said:

If that's the case, then why do countries far more liberal than us have fewer tragedies like this? Why is it that the US, a country that is arguably more religious and less liberal on the whole than most other Western nations, has so many more mass shootings?

The USA, of course, doesn't have "many more mass shootings".  Another Fake News.

If you take Chicago out of the crime rate, you're gonna have a crime rate comparable to gun-free Europe.  Chicago, of course, is a gun-free zone.

An estimated 90% of gun crime in the USA are done by Democrats.  Why aren't you banning Democrats?

The number of gun crime committed by NRA members doesn't even make a blip on statistics.  Yet the NRA is the boogey man.

 

10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't disagree. It is the proposal that various gun control measures -- like limiting silencers -- are the best means to get ahead of potential threats that I question. (Note: I do not object to all gun control initiatives). What I do object to is the idea that my belief in that matter means I must not care about the victims or the potential threats. I don't think gun control is, frankly, doable, however. There are something like 300 million guns in the US. Trying to take them away would literally cause civil war. Beyond that, limiting clip sizes and the like is not going to do anything to curb incidents like what happened in Vegas.

Gun control in the USA where the 2nd amendment exists, strips guns from law-abiding citizens.  Mass shooters are not law-abiding citizens.

878c59f75da892138bd183c65b4d38d0--gun-co

Edited by anatess2

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Thomas Jefferson was an adulterer

Misleading statement. Jefferson was not an adulterer. His wife was wife was dead when he was with Sally Hemings. Therefore he could not be an adulterer. Did he have a sexual relationship without getting married, yes (and some would still debate that). It was obviously  wrong to do but not as bad as being unfaithful to his wife. Twisting his life to make an excuse for your President  is wrong. And shows how weak your argument is. You want to put Trump in the same category as Bill Clinton and JFK go ahead. But that doesn't really shine a good light on him.... but by all means go a head and do it.

Edited by miav

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5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Statistics do not support your less guns = less gun violence theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Fair enough. Let's look at it by state though. With the lone exception of Texas, the entire gun-loving Bible Belt is at or above the national average. Contrast that with the northern states, where gun laws are typically more strict.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

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3 minutes ago, miav said:

Misleading statement. Jefferson was not an adulterer. His wife was wife was dead when he was with Sally Hemings. Therefore he could not be an adulterer. Did he have a sexual relationship without getting married, yes (and some would still debate that). It was obviously  wrong to do but not as bad as being unfaithful to his wife. Twisting his life to make an excuse for your President  is wrong. And shows how weak your argument is. You want to put Trump in the same category as Bill Clinton and JFK go ahead. But that doesn't really shine a good light on him.... but by all means go a head and do it.

You, of course, missed the entire point of the post.  I call it Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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