The bottomless pit of sex/pornography addiction


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7 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

@MadMaddy, your husband's addiction has nothing to do with you not being a great wife.  He uses because he is an addict, not because you're lacking.  You are no more to blame than a wife who's husband is addicted to heroin.  You aren't heroin/porn and nor should you be.  Please don't blame yourself for his addiction.  

As to whether or not to stay with an this unrepentant addict.... that's a question you should contemplate deeply with the Lord.  Yes, you have justification to leave, but none of us here can tell you rightly because only the Lord knows the right move for you.

Ditto, and an addiction should be thought of along the same lines as an illness.  Would you be offended if he got a cold, would you questions the value of your marriage if he developed cancer?  No.  So please don't take the symptoms of his addiction condition as meaning anything about his feelings for you.

If he were actively fighting it I'd be inclined to say stay with him as long as there is no abuse happening.  When he is not actively fighting it I can't say.  I don't know if he has decided to embrace wholeheartedly that lifestyle, or if he just feels so broken, so depressed, so drained emotionally and spiritually that he can't muster the will to make the effort.  This is not a condition that will go away in all likelihood, and even as he fights it he will have ups and downs and if you stay you'll have to accept that that is part of his struggle in mortality and love him in his brokenness.

The Lord knows his heart, and he knows your heart, and he knows where both of your limits are.  Only he can tell you for sure what the best path is so ask him and keep asking till you get an answer.  Once you have your answer you can then pursue that path without looking back and second guessing yourself.

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1 hour ago, JoCa said:

Oh I totally agree with that.  However behind every sin is a reason why, sometimes it is important to know the reason why, sometimes it is not.  The ultimate responsible party is the person who commits the bad behavior regardless of the reasons why . . .however we would be foolish to not at least try to understand why-and more and more studies are demonstrating that the reason why individuals get into addictive bad habits in many, many instances deals with a lack of emotional connection to other individuals.

Why in many instances to people get drunk . . .b/c they'd rather drown away their sorrows in a bottle of beer. Why do some men use pornography, b/c they'd rather deal in a fantasy land that makes them feel (even if only temporarily) good vs. thinking about the problems either in the life, marriage, work, etc.

Those are not cases of addiction, those are people choosing poor coping strategies and their circumstances do not excuse them from being accountable for their choice.  With an addiction the compulsion to indulge the addiction is stronger than self preservation.  An addict (of any kind) will feed their addiction even when the fully know and understand that it will harm them or others and create misery for themselves and their family because the compulsion is just that strong, not because their love for others or themselves is weak.  You can almost think of the addiction as a form of mental illness.

 

The church put out a series of videos on addiction recovery, if you haven't watched them you should.  Your husband should too if he is willing but if not you should at least watch them yourself to better understand what he is dealing with.  Here is the first one:
 

 

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Something that has often baffled and bothered me regarding pornography and sexual addictions is that at various work conferences, after hours, I have often been a listener to conversations that other men have had about pornography and sex.  While I'm admittedly drawing from a rather non-scientific sample, many of these men view pornography on a regular basis, and even masturbate, yet their spouses are aware and do not take issue with it. Outside these two things these husbands (from their own statements) do not have sex with other women.  I have seen many of these people and their relationships strike me as unusual because I am so confused at how they can have a relationship that they find fulfilling without the same level of commitment we expect of one another as members of the Church.  I am so confused at how these people indulge in such addictive habits, seemingly without it having the same addictive effects as what I would expect would happen to me, or have seen happen to others who participate.

Has anyone else been witness to this phenomenon?  I tend to assume that I have just seen a few rare cases, but with how normalized it is to society at large (or is it?), I am shocked.

Edited by person0
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13 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

How old are your children?  Is his behavior having an adverse effect on his and your relationship with them?  I would say you are justified in leaving.  Both for past sins, and for his current relapse.  However, you have children, and their needs are paramount.  If you can fake it until the last one is out of the house, then you might look at that option.  If his addiction is to the point where it is making home life unhealthy, then you need to remove your children from that environment.  

Abuse

Addiction

Adultery

all good reasons for divorce.

MadMaddy,

The above is an example of advice in which to take caution in.  There are NO cookie cutter people, everyone is dynamically different, so are their personal hells and afflictions. In situations such as these, counsel is best sought of from heavenly father, human reasoning is simply not enough to grasp such things anymore than human reasoning is enough to defeat such things for those who are afflicted by them.  Remember, we literally live in the deciever's playground, his most favorite and prized goal is to destroy marriages, for when he destroys a marriage, he destroys a family, when he destroys a family, he has within his grasp the bitter souls now divided and broken. So, such advice above is inherently dangerous and serves the deceiver's goals, not heavenly fathers. Of course, the solution is not easily reached either, which is why I said to seek the answers from heavenly father instead, the authority on all things. Your bishop can "assist", but still, such guidance must come from heavenly father.  I'm sure the poster I have quoted means well and has no ill intent, but you don't go to Mc Donald's for open heart surgery, you don't go to Subway to have your transmission worked on, and you don't go to human beings for answers on what to do when your marriage is in crisis. I would challenge you to spend some time in the temple. Ask friend's to take your names to the temple for prayer. This is a very complex problem, you need the "Expert of ALL" to handle this, ask for it. 

Edited by Bad Karma
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8 hours ago, MadMaddy said:

Thank you all so much for the words of encouragement and advice. To answer a few questions some have had...

We are very active LDS, and we are devoted to the gospel. In fact, this trial has refined my relationship with my Savior, and for that I am so grateful. Also, ironically, it has made me love my husband so much more-- I think because I had to fight so hard to hold our marriage together. A downside is that it has really increased my insecurities. If it wasn't for this one thing I really believe our marriage would be perfect. I'm not even as worried about the slips with pornography. Yes, it isn't an ideal situation, and makes me feel bad about myself, but I would rather deal with that than the infidelities again. That was so heartbreaking, I don't think I could come back from it again.

That's why I have had thoughts of leaving--running away before it happens again? I don't know...maybe it will never get to that point again. I'm just afraid. 

--also, in his defense, he had a horrific childhood. We learned, through therapy, that any addiction is used as a coping mechanism--an escape. He's done a lot of work to deal with those past demons and shame, and I don't want to lose him to it all over again. 

2

It sounds like you're really logical, which helps.  This is why I view infidelity the way I do.  There are few things that affect a marriage the way infidelity and abuse do.  Know that it is MY belief that infidelity doesn't change the way he thinks about YOU so much, it changes the way you think about HIM.  Many men view sex differently.  Same with pornography.  

-also, there is no defense.  I could tell you childhood stories that would curdle your blood.  I've never cheated on my spouse and devote my life to ensuring my wife and children won't have to experience the same.

You'll get through this.  

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8 hours ago, person0 said:

Something that has often baffled and bothered me regarding pornography and sexual addictions is that at various work conferences, after hours, I have often been a listener to conversations that other men have had about pornography and sex.  While I'm admittedly drawing from a rather non-scientific sample, many of these men view pornography on a regular basis, and even masturbate, yet their spouses are aware and do not take issue with it. Outside these two things these husbands (from their own statements) do not have sex with other women.  I have seen many of these people and their relationships strike me as unusual because I am so confused at how they can have a relationship that they find fulfilling without the same level of commitment we expect of one another as members of the Church.  I am so confused at how these people indulge in such addictive habits, seemingly without it having the same addictive effects as what I would expect would happen to me, or have seen happen to others who participate.

Has anyone else been witness to this phenomenon?  I tend to assume that I have just seen a few rare cases, but I with how normalized it is to society at large (or is it?), I am shocked.

I've seen this come up so often on here that I'll put up a new thread on it in general discussion, from the perspective of someone who has grown up in this culture with a view on pornography that is completely neutral and outside of religion.

Edit:  I just spent 30 minutes typing that thread only to have it eaten by the internet.  Perhaps someday I’ll be inspired to do it again.  

Edited by Grunt
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7 hours ago, person0 said:

yet their spouses are aware and do not take issue with it.

Keep in mind who is reporting this.  Can we be sure they know what their wives really think? And if so, perhaps the wives too employ some extra-husband-al methods for satisfying some of their desires. Or perhaps the world has trained them to expect less than celestial and be satisfied therewith.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
10 hours ago, MadMaddy said:

-also, in his defense, he had a horrific childhood. We learned, through therapy, that any addiction is used as a coping mechanism--an escape. He's done a lot of work to deal with those past demons and shame, and I don't want to lose him to it all over again. 

Is he willing to go to therapy again?  If he's still using porn, then he likely still has some stuff he needs to work through from his childhood.

More importantly, are YOU willing to go to therapy for yourself?  Whatever you decide to do (I think a reasonable argument could be made either way--that's why we can't tell you what to do, only the Lord can advise you on this decision), you will need therapy.  Therapy if you stay, therapy if you leave.   I go to therapy twice a week to deal with my childhood issues.  That might sound like a lot, but really it's two hours out of the week and it makes it possible for me to be the mom/wife/person I want to be, so it's totally worth it.  I highly recommend it to you.  Do it for your kids.  It's hard to be the mother you want to be when you are depressed, I know this from experience.  

If you do decide to leave, I suggest separation rather than divorce.  

For whatever it's worth, you seem to still love him, and I imagine he loves you as well.  Porn, as I understand it, is a very difficult addiction to overcome.  You said you don't want to lose him to the past demons and shame, but porn is a sign that he still has demons and shame.  Pray about this.  Fast.  Get a blessing.  Go to therapy.  @anatess2 would say, You might be the only one who came help him.  He has to do this himself, but if it is the Lord's will, your love might help him find the strength to overcome.  But neither of you can do this alone.  You need the Lord and therapy.  

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9 hours ago, person0 said:

I am so confused at how these people indulge in such addictive habits, seemingly without it having the same addictive effects as what I would expect would happen to me, or have seen happen to others who participate.

Has anyone else been witness to this phenomenon?  I tend to assume that I have just seen a few rare cases, but I with how normalized it is to society at large (or is it?), I am shocked.

"Seemingly" is the key word here.  It's an illusion.  

Frankly, drinking poison (aka watching porn) is so normalized by society nowadays that people frequently honestly have no clue how sick they are and their relationships are.  In my observations (admittedly non-scientiicific) some folks in the world have never even seen a marriage where a both spouses were 100% devoted to each other and did not partake in that poison.  They do not miss the full joy they have never seen.  

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11 hours ago, MadMaddy said:

Thank you all so much for the words of encouragement and advice. To answer a few questions some have had...

We are very active LDS, and we are devoted to the gospel. In fact, this trial has refined my relationship with my Savior, and for that I am so grateful. Also, ironically, it has made me love my husband so much more-- I think because I had to fight so hard to hold our marriage together. A downside is that it has really increased my insecurities. If it wasn't for this one thing I really believe our marriage would be perfect. I'm not even as worried about the slips with pornography. Yes, it isn't an ideal situation, and makes me feel bad about myself, but I would rather deal with that than the infidelities again. That was so heartbreaking, I don't think I could come back from it again.

That's why I have had thoughts of leaving--running away before it happens again? I don't know...maybe it will never get to that point again. I'm just afraid. 

--also, in his defense, he had a horrific childhood. We learned, through therapy, that any addiction is used as a coping mechanism--an escape. He's done a lot of work to deal with those past demons and shame, and I don't want to lose him to it all over again. 

*hugs*

(Sorry, I admittedly don't have much to say here that "right", so I'll just speak through actions.  My heart goes out to you)

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@LiterateParakeet says it best, I think.

There's your husband, and then there's your marriage, and then there's you.  The objective is for him and you to be one in marriage with Christ.

Your husband's demons is for your husband to drive away.  This is not something that you can do for him.  You can be the perfect wife, the perfect mother, the most beautiful, passionate, loving woman on the planet, this wouldn't mean anything against addiction because the addiction has nothing to do with you.  He'll have to figure this out.  But, like most major things in life, one cannot really rise above these things without the help and support of the people around him.  What you can help him with is your forgiveness and showing him the path closer to Christ one inch at a time.  This is love.

Your marriage is for you and your husband to work on and protect.  The demons your husband is fighting is affecting your marriage because it makes him completely incapable of protecting your marriage.  What I love about your opening statement is that you didn't make this about him versus you.  Rather, you made this about both of you against addiction.  This is how it should be.  Both of you should stand on the same side of the fence through your marriage fighting this evil.  He hides these from you because he knows it's bad and he is ashamed for what he's doing to your marriage.  It would be great if he can trust your marriage and seek your help instead of hiding in shame.  Unfortunately, this is the problem with addicts - the shame is so great that it prevents them from completely humbling themselves to seek atonement.  Wallowing in hopelessness and simply giving up is the easier route and it leads to them just throwing everything away and wipe away their feeling of guilt by siding with the devil.  The marriage needs to be protected as it is the foundation for your children.  When the marriage crumbles your children crumble with it.

Then there's you.  You also have your own demons to fight.  These demons may be caused by the constant barrage of having to stand up strong all the time to prop up your marriage.  It wears on your spirit.  You have to be able to inch closer to Christ as you help your husband.  Saving your husband and losing yourself is just as bad.  Love others (your husband) as you love yourself - this is the commandment.  Not just your husband, not just yourself.  LiterateParakeet gave very good advice when she mentioned you going to therapy for yourself.  You can't keep the marriage (and your children) protected if you are lost.

So, do you stay or do you go?  This is for you to decide.  Keep the objective in mind - you and your husband in marriage (with the children) closer to Christ.  If staying in this toxic environment will get you farther from Christ, then you have to go.  If leaving will get your husband farther from Christ, then you have to stay.  Sometimes, there's no way to resolve the opposing forces.  So, whatever you do - stay or go - just bear in mind that staying doesn't mean you're giving up on yourself and going doesn't mean you're giving up on your husband.  It simply means you're choosing the best option so that you can do what you need to do to bring yourself and your husband (with the children) closer to Christ even if the only thing you can do is kneel down in humble prayer every morning for his salvation as you work on getting yourself and the children some healing away from him and his demons.

Hope this helps.

 

Edited by anatess2
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11 hours ago, person0 said:

Something that has often baffled and bothered me regarding pornography and sexual addictions is that at various work conferences, after hours, I have often been a listener to conversations that other men have had about pornography and sex.  While I'm admittedly drawing from a rather non-scientific sample, many of these men view pornography on a regular basis, and even masturbate, yet their spouses are aware and do not take issue with it. Outside these two things these husbands (from their own statements) do not have sex with other women.  I have seen many of these people and their relationships strike me as unusual because I am so confused at how they can have a relationship that they find fulfilling without the same level of commitment we expect of one another as members of the Church.  I am so confused at how these people indulge in such addictive habits, seemingly without it having the same addictive effects as what I would expect would happen to me, or have seen happen to others who participate.

Has anyone else been witness to this phenomenon?  I tend to assume that I have just seen a few rare cases, but I with how normalized it is to society at large (or is it?), I am shocked.

I agree with @Jane_Doe.

A couple of things could be happening with your friends:

1) they could be sleeping around but not admitting it to each other.  Cheating on a spouse is one of the rattiest thing a person can do.  I, for one, have been known to cut off contact with those who cheat on spouses - not only is there the immorality part, but also the backstabbing, the betrayal, the dishonesty . . . based on how I feel about those who cheat on spouses, I wouldn't exactly be admitting it to people I barely know.  Adultery is a natural consequence of porn addiction, so if they haven't been sleeping around, they very well might end up doing so in the years to come.

2) perhaps they can control their outward behavior, but porn addiction is both devastating and progressive.  They may well be, spiritually speaking, rotting gangrenous corpses on the inside while appearing OK on the outside.  Recently, a poster on this forum described briefly how he moved from nudity to hardcore pornography to depictions of criminal behavior to semi-child pornography.  You can't indulge in such stuff without becoming a wicked person on the inside who is totally unfit for the Celestial Kingdom.  Your friends, if they keep going down the path they are on, will get worse and worse over time, even if they can outwardly control their actions.  That's just the nature of sexual sin.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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11 hours ago, person0 said:

Something that has often baffled and bothered me regarding pornography and sexual addictions is that at various work conferences, after hours, I have often been a listener to conversations that other men have had about pornography and sex.  While I'm admittedly drawing from a rather non-scientific sample, many of these men view pornography on a regular basis, and even masturbate, yet their spouses are aware and do not take issue with it. Outside these two things these husbands (from their own statements) do not have sex with other women.  I have seen many of these people and their relationships strike me as unusual because I am so confused at how they can have a relationship that they find fulfilling without the same level of commitment we expect of one another as members of the Church.  I am so confused at how these people indulge in such addictive habits, seemingly without it having the same addictive effects as what I would expect would happen to me, or have seen happen to others who participate.

Has anyone else been witness to this phenomenon?  I tend to assume that I have just seen a few rare cases, but I with how normalized it is to society at large (or is it?), I am shocked.

Some people can drink beers without being an alcoholic, and some can't.  I assume it is the same with pornography, some can watch it without it becoming an addiction or driving them to adultery.  If both a husband and a wife view sex as only a physical thing I can see them not caring if their spouse watches porn as long as they get to get what they want, but it isn't going to be a relationship that has anywhere near the depth and power and deep emotional and spiritual bond that a couple who live by the standards of the church can have.  They don't know what they are missing and at some point there will be a reckoning.

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4 hours ago, Grunt said:

I've seen this come up so often on here that I'll put up a new thread on it in general discussion, from the perspective of someone who has grown up in this culture with a view on pornography that is completely neutral and outside of religion.

Edit:  I just spent 30 minutes typing that thread only to have it eaten by the internet.  Perhaps someday I’ll be inspired to do it again.  

Sorry that happened.  It has happened to me enough times that sometimes if I'm working on a long post I do it in Word and then copy/paste it after.

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3 hours ago, zil said:

Keep in mind who is reporting this.  Can we be sure they know what their wives really think? And if so, perhaps the wives too employ some extra-husband-al methods for satisfying some of their desires. Or perhaps the world has trained them to expect less than celestial and be satisfied therewith.

Well, I am including reports from the wives.  And yes, the wives also often employ 'extra-husband' methods also, but not other people.  And yes, I'd say the societal and worldly factors play a big part.

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The definition of addiction is something that affects the ability to perform major life functions.  Many if not most addictions power lies in escapism... (For a brief period of time they feel better about themselves)

A guy who comes home and drinks a beer or watches porn to unwind and is in an environment where that is considered normal and acceptable..  Can maintain that for a long time.

A guy who knows it's wrong will after the feel good "High" will crash hard into guilt and shame...  This is creates a very powerful feedback loop as more often and Higher "Highs" become necessary to momentarily forget the guilt and shame.

The options are to "normalize" the behavior as the world teaches.. or "stop" the behavior as the church teaches.  Both can work, but only one helps you become more Christ-like

 

 

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52 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

A guy who knows it's wrong will after the feel good "High" will crash hard into guilt and shame...  This is creates a very powerful feedback loop as more often and Higher "Highs" become necessary to momentarily forget the guilt and shame.

The options are to "normalize" the behavior as the world teaches.. or "stop" the behavior as the church teaches.  Both can work, but only one helps you become more Christ-like

 

 

Guilt and shame are good things when a person does something they should feel guilty and be ashamed of.  How they respond to those feelings is their choice, godly sorrow worketh repentance. 

Addiction is a bit different however.  Here is the dictionary definition:

Quote

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

I think in cases of addiction there is a different level of accountability.  I'm not saying they are blameless and helpless, but I don't think they should be judged by the same standard as somebody who disobedient/lustful/rebellious without that addiction factor in place.  That's part of the torment of it, they have a real desire to live right but struggle to find the power to do so.  They feel trapped and enslaved in a place they don't want to be. 
 
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1 hour ago, person0 said:

Well, I am including reports from the wives.  And yes, the wives also often employ 'extra-husband' methods also, but not other people.  And yes, I'd say the societal and worldly factors play a big part.

I have a couple of friends who view pornography and have faithful and functional relationships with their wives.  The wives are fine with it too.  Of course, these guys are not religious.  Yes, you can view pornography and not be addicted to it.  Addiction is a different thing than viewing pornography like it's just another show on TV. 

So, how are the wives just fine with it?  Well, the difference between the religious and non-religious is they don't know (or they don't believe) that watching pornography is a bad thing.  The rattling in their conscience has long since been silenced.  So, there's not much conflict in there and the family has simply accepted these things as normal.  As a religious person, I believe that the rattling will eventually surface (the light of Christ can still shine if given a chance) and the anguish will commence.  It might not be in this life, but definitely in the life to come.  But saying this to the non-religious will simply get you laughed out of the park.

Edited by anatess2
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4 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

LDM, in most cases, calling pornography an "addiction" is a bastardization of the term. Very, very few individuals who use pornography have "severe trauma" upon stopping usage.

Typical withdrawal symptoms:

Cocaine: http://www.acadianaaddiction.com/addiction/cocaine/symptoms-signs-effects#Effects-of-Cocaine-Withdrawal

Caffeine: https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-withdrawal-symptoms-top-ten 

pornography/sex addiction: http://www.psychguides.com/guides/sex-addiction-symptoms-causes-and-effects/

 Someone can absolutely be a pornography addict, just like they can a gambling addict, a hoarder or any other host of addictions. But the large difference is that the addiction is in the mind.  Cocaine and caffeine are physical substances that actually change the body itself and when addicted to it the body in addition to the mind crave it.  Other addictions are where the mind alone craves the addiction.  People say pornography is more addicting than crack cocaine . . .totally false why b/c cocaine has a very real physical component where pornography does not.

I understand that we like to use the term addiction to scare people away from using pornography (if you use it once you will become addicted!!! gasp, horror, etc. it will totally destroy your life!!!).  But it honestly goes beyond that, using pornography is different than taking a cigarette puff and then being addicted to smoking.  IMO when there is no physical component to the addiction, blaming the behavior on dopamine receptors is just an excuse and in fact denies the very real power of Christ to change who we are inside.

Pornography use and why people do it . . .it's not hard, it's not complex . . .it's very, very simple, yet psychologist try to make it out to be more complex than it is-they get to write PhD studies on it and get paid to do it.  Individuals use pornography b/c it makes them feel good for a brief period of time-it allows them to escape from whatever pain, suffering, bad feelings they have at the time.  If done over a long enough time period it becomes an automatic habit.  And with any habit it takes a force of will to change and especially with a habit that you enjoy. B/c there is absolutely 0 physical addiction to pornography, it can be stopped in an instant. 

All it takes is the recognition that this habit is destructive to the soul and when that recognition, sinks deep into the heart, it will stop.  The reason why it takes this recognition is b/c the evil outcomes of pornography in general are not easy to see. Unless one has the spirit of discernment, the porn user easily could be your HT, your EQP, shoot it could even be your Bishop.  It rots the inner core without much visible outer effects.  Most "addictions" have very bad outcomes, gambling, smoking, cocaine, etc. etc.  It is very plainly obvious what those bad habits will destroy.

Pornography . . .not so much. Unless one is truly an addict, one can lead a perfectly normal life being "addicted" to pornography . . .that in my book is not addiction-it's a habit in sin. Calling it an "addiction" gives people an excuse "well I'm addicted to it I can't help it"  total utter hogwash.  No you like and lust after a sinful habit; there is nothing stopping you from doing it . . .you just like the sin.  When that full recognition happens, that the stake of one's soul is at risk . . . change will happen, just like it did with Alma, Saul, etc.  (Not that one needs to go to that level, but as a metaphor the change through Christ will happen). 

And honestly if we can't have that conversation that sometimes, in fact many times people like and enjoy whatever sin it is they are committing then I daresay we can't have conversation about Christ. B/c the whole Atonement, His very existence is about changing the natural man (which likes and enjoys sin) into a godly man (which abhors and hates sin).

In fact it is the reason why homosexuality, transgender, etc. are making headway into the Church b/c in many instances we as Saints are denying the Power of Christ to change our inner most being . . .b/c instead of Christ changing us we were "born that way" or we are "addicted" or there is some "thing" that is outside our control from which either only man can give us relief (in the form of pills-psysco-therapy, etc.) or which man cannot give us relief and we are stuck.

For many, a complete denial of Christ's Power. 

 

 

Edited by JoCa
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I trully am sorry you are dealing with this @MadMaddy. Please don't blame yourself for any of your husband's actions. You are not too blame, and honestly I applaud your dedication to your marriage. We should all be so blessed to have somone fighting so hard for us. My advice to you is this. Pornography is a serious addiciton, that is used to fight uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings. Rather than finding healthy ways to fight these feelings (bad memories, boredom, loneliness, pain etc.) an addict uses porn. It's horrible. When you are truly addicted, it's like watching your life running on autopilot. You scream at yourself to stop and you don't. You remember all of the pain and hurt caused by doing it previously and it just doesn't matter. You are trapped. Fortunately there is a way out. Sometimes it takes a long time, but the Savior can take these things away and restore your control. You mentioned your husband had been doing well for a while when this started again. What changed? Why did he stop using the healthy mechanisms he set in place to protect himself? I know something I failed in on my own path to freedom was constantly taking away my safety devices once I felt like I was fine. This invariably led to me being an idiot again. Now I know that I'll never be able to trust myself alone on the internet again. That's not a bad thing! I had to let go of my pride, and accept that unlike many adults I can't be on the internet without backup. That means even though it's been sometime since I've had any problems, all of my devices, including my phone, will have reporting software until the day I die. I don't care if I'm 95 and haven't had any problems in 60 years, my internet devices will report everything that I'm viewing directly to my wife. Your husband has to come to the same realization. He will always need to protect himself in this area of his life. He can be healed, but one way Christ makes a man stronger is by showing him his weaknesses and how he can protect himself there. Christ saved me. He can save your husband too, but he has to fight! He can't say "oh well I have my phone all the time theres nothing I can do." There is something he can do! Real time reporting software works for me. There is something, I promise, out there that will work for him. Christ told us he has the power to save all men that turn to him. If Christ saved a proud, stubborn man like me he can save your husband too. But he has to want it. Sorry for the length of my post but I truly feel for you sister.

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4 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Guilt and shame are good things when a person does something they should feel guilty and be ashamed of.  How they respond to those feelings is their choice, godly sorrow worketh repentance. 

I think in cases of addiction there is a different level of accountability.  I'm not saying they are blameless and helpless, but I don't think they should be judged by the same standard as somebody who disobedient/lustful/rebellious without that addiction factor in place.  That's part of the torment of it, they have a real desire to live right but struggle to find the power to do so.  They feel trapped and enslaved in a place they don't want to be. 

For the vast majority of pornography users (in the Church) they don't have a desire to truly strive in this aspect of life as Christ would have them do.  They think they do, they'll make platitudes to it, they may even have burning testimonies, even very strong ones. It doesn't change all the good they might do in life or have done or will do. It doesn't change their testimony, it doesn't change that they can be Men of God.  There have been Prophets in the Bible who have had lust (some have given into it), have had pride, jealousy, or plenty of other weaknesses.  Having this weakness or desire for sin is part of this life's experience to understand how to overcome the natural man.   But at the end of the day, (especially for those who have the truth) we can't stand before God and say, "well I had an addiction, I couldn't help it" (i.e. the devil made me do it). Nope, not gonna happen.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

Personally, I think it's gonna be really hard to stand before God at the last day and say "Lord, I did my best I had a real desire to live right".  "Did you know about the 10 commandments and live them?" "Yes with all my heart".  "What about #10?".  "All of them Lord."  "You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”  "What about when I sent my Son and he proclaimed do not lust after a woman?" "Did you not know this commandment and did you not lust after strange women? by your usage of pornography"  "Well you see Lord, I was addicted, I couldn't stop . . .it wasn't my fault .. . but I truly do love your Son" "Then why did you deny His power to change you?" (silence).

As the very, very good brother above articulates, for those who are truly addicted (and even those who aren't truly addicted), when in this aspect of your life you have a real desire to follow Christ and obey His law.  Come Hell or High Water, you will do it, you will escape it.  You will cry out so mighty to God that He will inspire you to put in place mechanisms, programs, attitude changes, etc. You will do whatever is necessary relying upon Christ's redeeming blood to change your heart, your mind, your soul. He will change your soul to abhor sin.

And that change of heart must always be constant . . .if that change of heart ever reverts, you will fall back into old sinful habits. It is only through Him that the change can occur and continue to occur.

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4 hours ago, JoCa said:

 Someone can absolutely be a pornography addict, just like they can a gambling addict, a hoarder or any other host of addictions. But the large difference is that the addiction is in the mind.  Cocaine and caffeine are physical substances that actually change the body itself and when addicted to it the body in addition to the mind crave it.  Other addictions are where the mind alone craves the addiction.  People say pornography is more addicting than crack cocaine . . .totally false why b/c cocaine has a very real physical component where pornography does not.

I understand that we like to use the term addiction to scare people away from using pornography (if you use it once you will become addicted!!! gasp, horror, etc. it will totally destroy your life!!!).  But it honestly goes beyond that, using pornography is different than taking a cigarette puff and then being addicted to smoking.  IMO when there is no physical component to the addiction, blaming the behavior on dopamine receptors is just an excuse and in fact denies the very real power of Christ to change who we are inside.

I'm sure there are those who try to excuse their actions by falsely claiming addiction when that is not the case but lets set that aside for now. 

I agree that gambling or porn addictions are in the mind,  but is it a 'software problem' (ie: they just need to discipline themselves to make better choice, change their mind), or is it a 'hardware problem' with the mind where the very ability to make those changes and choices is impaired.  You can't fix a hardware issue by trying to install new software. 

Mental illness is a hardware problem.  A person with borderline personality disorder is going to come off as rude, insensitive, selfish and inconsiderate without realizing it and a simple lesson on manners is not going to fix their behaviour.  Medical science can't take a blood test or a CAT scan or an MRI and point to something that is proof they have BPD, we just don't know enough about the mind to tell.  It is diagnosed by observing their behaviour.

Treating any metal illness is more art than science where they try different meds and different dosages until they find something that works, and sometimes what used to work stops working and they have to start over.  The meds alter the mind's hardware in the hopes of restoring normal function.  When somebody is engaging in an activity like porn or gambling that they know is self destructive, where they know they are going pay a huge price for it they would rather not pay, and they still can't stop themselves, then IMHO that is a genuine addiction, perhaps a mental illness.  Their behaviour shows there is something going on in their head that is self destructive in nature.  In the case of pornography, there is evidence that masturbating to porn does in fact alter the brain but even if you dismiss that the fact is we don't know the working of the mind well enough to say there is nothing behind it on a biological level, same as with most mental illnesses.

We all get trials in life, and for some people their trial may be something that never goes away, something they have to struggle with to the end of their days.  That doesn't deny the power of the atonement because after this life they can be resurrected into a state where they are free of that trial.  Yes, Christ can work miracles and take away somebody's burden in a heartbeat, but usually what is best for us is to learn how to overcome them, or bear them.

Another aspect of this is the spiritual.  We read in the Bible many times of people being possessed by an unclean spirit, something outside of the person that somehow enters in and causes problems.  Christ cast them out of some people leading to a dramatic change in their condition.  If it happened back then, it stands to reason that people today can wind up in the same situation, and perhaps some of these cases relate to that.

Bottom line, we are not in a position to pass judgment on some porn addict and say if their claim is real and they just need to make better choices.  It would not be a righteous judgement to label them all as reprobates who have embraced the natural man and don't care about anything other than their own pleasure.  God knows their state and condition, and those with handicapped abilities have that taken into account by God and have easier access to his forgiveness.  In the case of the OP, she has a decision to make, and really only God can guide her on what is best.  Her trial my be to stay with him and help see him through so she can learn something about compassion and forgiveness she never would otherwise, or God will know if he will overcome it or how far he will sink.

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4 hours ago, JoCa said:

For the vast majority of pornography users (in the Church) they don't have a desire to truly strive in this aspect of life as Christ would have them do.  They think they do, they'll make platitudes to it, they may even have burning testimonies, even very strong ones. It doesn't change all the good they might do in life or have done or will do. It doesn't change their testimony, it doesn't change that they can be Men of God.  There have been Prophets in the Bible who have had lust (some have given into it), have had pride, jealousy, or plenty of other weaknesses.  Having this weakness or desire for sin is part of this life's experience to understand how to overcome the natural man.   But at the end of the day, (especially for those who have the truth) we can't stand before God and say, "well I had an addiction, I couldn't help it" (i.e. the devil made me do it). Nope, not gonna happen.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

Personally, I think it's gonna be really hard to stand before God at the last day and say "Lord, I did my best I had a real desire to live right".  "Did you know about the 10 commandments and live them?" "Yes with all my heart".  "What about #10?".  "All of them Lord."  "You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”  "What about when I sent my Son and he proclaimed do not lust after a woman?" "Did you not know this commandment and did you not lust after strange women? by your usage of pornography"  "Well you see Lord, I was addicted, I couldn't stop . . .it wasn't my fault .. . but I truly do love your Son" "Then why did you deny His power to change you?" (silence).

As the very, very good brother above articulates, for those who are truly addicted (and even those who aren't truly addicted), when in this aspect of your life you have a real desire to follow Christ and obey His law.  Come Hell or High Water, you will do it, you will escape it.  You will cry out so mighty to God that He will inspire you to put in place mechanisms, programs, attitude changes, etc. You will do whatever is necessary relying upon Christ's redeeming blood to change your heart, your mind, your soul. He will change your soul to abhor sin.

And that change of heart must always be constant . . .if that change of heart ever reverts, you will fall back into old sinful habits. It is only through Him that the change can occur and continue to occur.

This is not the message I get from the addiction recovery videos the church made. 

I don't think you are in a position to make those kinds of judgments about others, might be true for some, and totaly wrong about others.  God looks on the heart and takes all things into consideration.  If somebody was mentally ill, they are not as accountable for their actions as a perfectly sane person would be, they might not be accountable at all if their condition was bad enough.  Are you going to go and tell every member of the church dealing with mental illness that it's their own fault for not having enough faith and desire to become free of it?  

You don't have to be perfect to get to the celestial kingdom, nobody is going to be able to say they were fully obedient to everything, the question is what direction were you striving to move in. Some people are going to struggle their whole life battling their porn addiction, and they will falter at times, but as long as they keep repenting and trying they are acceptable to God.  Their overcoming it may only come after mortality, after a lifetime of struggle.  I agree that those who try and say 'I had an addiction, I couldn't help it' won't fare well on judgement day, but those who say 'I had an addiction and did the best I could to resist it' are another story.

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48 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Mental illness is a hardware problem. 

Lie of the century.  I truly am sorry you are sucked into this philosophy of men and deny the Power of Christ . . .honestly I am.

Mental illness is not a hardware problem, it is a pack of lies from the father of lies himself.  Why deny the power of Christ?  Why deny the power of Satan?  The Scriptures, the holy word of God describes evil spirits, devils, etc. Was Christ just telling them lies to conform to their "cultural belief" of devils.  Did Christ cast out devils, but really all he was doing was healing mental illness. 

Quite frankly, being blunt, you have cognitive dissonance.  Either the scriptures are true and Christ really did cast out devils and evil spirits from individuals who were taken by Satan, or all he really was doing was just healing people of their mental "hardware defect".  So either you believe Christ lied to those He taught, i.e. the scriptures are lying to us when it talks about Christ casting out devils, or you believe that people during His time period didn't have mental illness, or you don't truly believe the Scriptures.  There is no middle ground.

This is pretty dang simple.  If we as Latter-day Saints believe in the Holy Ghost and in the Power of God, we know there are opposing forces, and if there are opposing forces then that means there are evil spirits just as much as there are good spirits.  And if there are evil spirits then their objective is to influence people as much as possible to be as miserable and commit as much sin as the Evil One himself. And if they influence people to be totally miserable and commit sin and evil, where would the ultimate desire to commit sinful acts come from?  From our hardware??  I don't think so, from the Evil One and His minions.

The vast, vast majority of "mental illness" come from Satan himself, unfortunately in today's modern Church we don't talk about it as much as we should but in the early days of the Restored Church it was talked about plenty.  But most members have been sucked into the modern philosophies of men. And note just b/c Satan is influencing one doesn't make someone an evil person . . .his purpose is to make us miserable!!! You don't have to be a bad person for him to use his power and influence to make you feel miserable!

Don't believe me . . fine.  Listen to someone who is a certified psychologist, who has taken the training who was atheist for decades of his life.  Converted his life to Christ and started telling the truth about the fraud that psychology is.

https://podcast.rosemond.com/?name=2017-09-23_jr_091617.mp3

https://podcast.rosemond.com/?name=2017-10-14_jr_100717.mp3

But no in many cases, in many instances in today's restored Church, we like to think we have Christ, we make platitudes to it, we go to Church on Sunday go home, we enjoy the "cultural aspects of Church".  We are so completely converted to Christ as a Church, yet we have to have our Prophet come and specifically talk to us and make a "reemphasizes on Sunday as a holy day".  Really????  I mean keeping the Sabbath day holy is one of the basic 10 commandments . . .and as a Church on the whole we are doing such a horrible job of it that the Prophet has to tell us to "re-emphasize" the Sabbath day???  We (as a membership body) can't even keep a basic commandment . . yet we pine for new light and knowledge, we pine for change in the Church that leads us closer to Christ . . .yet again we can't even keep a basic commandment . . . it's quite ludicrous.

And I don't say any of this to exempt myself . . .I am a horribly broken man, I'm no better than anyone else, and I've committed plenty of sin in my life. And if by God's grace and His Son's Atonement He lets me into His kingdom, I will weep at His feet. I will be so utterly grateful as my sins are great that I have learned by very, very painful experience of both the powers of Hell and the Power of Heaven and if God cast me out of His Kingdom, He would be justified in doing so . . .so I pray that His Son's mercy will cover my sins. Because I fall short every day, I will never be able to "work my way to heaven", all I can do is honestly, responsibly recognize my sins understand where the source of sin comes from, where the source misery comes from, understand where the source of light and truth comes from and then grow closer and closer to the source of light and truth.

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17 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

This is not the message I get from the addiction recovery videos the church made. 

Yeah well the older I get in life the more I realize that the Church doesn't have a lock on truth and that not everything the Church says is from God.  The vast, vast majority of it is and it is absolutely His Church . . .but not everything that is put out in videos, training, or even spoken in GC is the Word of God.  That's why we've been give the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who is a real being, and a real presence.

As proof to this the Church admits it; we've heard modern Apostles and Prophets say as much as recently as the recent GC.

And bluntly, in the modern Church as a culture we rely more on the philosophies of men to heal the mind/soul rather then on Christ . . .b/c quite frankly you admit it, psychologists admit it they don't know what causes "mental illness". 

That's great that we have "addiction recovery videos" tell people to go see therapists, etc. If those steps eventually lead people to Christ, to understanding His miraculous power for individuals to really know Him, then that is 100% awesome and it's fantastic, wonderful. If in the process of taking a pill (that statistically speaking is no better than a sugar pill) and through the power of prayer they come to know Him, absolutely it's awesome.  But there is a huge danger when you rely upon the arm of flesh, you run a danger of believing the "doctor" healed you or the "medicine" healed you (especially when statistically speaking their pills are like a placebo)  .. . rather than acknowledging the source of that healing . . .which is Christ.

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