NeuroTypical

Sutherland Springs Baptist Church shooting - sadness enough for everybody

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At least 26 dead, at least 20 injured, the deadliest mass-shooting by an individual in Texas.  And also the new record for deadliest shooting in an American place of worship, surpassing the Charleston church shooting of 2015 and the Waddell, Arizona Buddhist temple shooting of 1991.

Makes me a little sad.  Also a lot sad, because the church was out in the middle of nowhere in a tiny unincorporated community, roughly the same size and demographics of the tiny unincorporated community where I go to church. 

As usual, Dr. Daniel Peterson has good and worthy things to say:  Reflections on the atrocity in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

I wonder if there'll be a change to our church policy.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/590038317/Text-of-letter-from-First-Presidency-on-guns.html
https://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firearm/general-information/houses-of-worship-prohibiting-firearms-on-premises/

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

At least 26 dead, at least 20 injured, the deadliest mass-shooting by an individual in Texas.

And the worst part of it is that he apparently sent threatening text messages to his mother in law at some point before the whole thing; I don't know if she didn't take it seriously enough to forward them to LE, or if LE dropped the ball by not jumping on an easy possession by prohibited person arrest, (hard to imagine the family not knowing about the rifle he posted on FB, or his DV conviction)  but if those two things had happened, he'd be in a cell somewhere awaiting the official start of a ten year sentence, and a town wouldn't be in shock over the loss of half a congregation.

Edited by NightSG

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-military-failed-to-send-texas-gunmans-conviction-record-to-fbi-1510009446

His domestic assault conviction *and* dishonorable discharge should have denied him the right to own a firearm under Texas law, but the Air Force never filed the paperwork with the FBI and so none of his background checks flagged him. 

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11 hours ago, Ironhold said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-military-failed-to-send-texas-gunmans-conviction-record-to-fbi-1510009446

His domestic assault conviction *and* dishonorable discharge should have denied him the right to own a firearm under Texas law, but the Air Force never filed the paperwork with the FBI and so none of his background checks flagged him. 

The problem was that he didn't get a DD, he got a BCD, which isn't the same in terms of rights after separation.  DoD has been reporting DDs, but has only reported one out of who-knows-how-many-thousands of domestic violence convictions to NICS.

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12 minutes ago, NightSG said:

The problem was that he didn't get a DD, he got a BCD, which isn't the same in terms of rights after separation.  DoD has been reporting DDs, but has only reported one out of who-knows-how-many-thousands of domestic violence convictions to NICS.

I'm pretty sure DD is for "Dearest Daughter", but I'm lost on the rest.

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3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm pretty sure DD is for "Dearest Daughter", but I'm lost on the rest.

http://blog.gettinghired.com/Home/tabid/159/entryid/131/whats-in-a-military-discharge-and-how-can-it-impact-my-employment.aspx

Bad Conduct discharge

A "Bad Conduct" discharge is given to enlisted military personnel only. It is usually precluded by a military court-martial and extended as a 'punitive measure' for actions that meet very poor and/or bad conduct during one's enlistment.  It is often associated with time in a military prison for a serious military code violation and/or crime.  This type of discharge forfeits all post-military veterans benefits.

Most employers would not look favorably at a job candidate with this status level discharge. It may not keep an employer from extending an employment opportunity, but it may create some serious hesitation on the part of a recruiter.

Dishonorable discharge

A person with a "Dishonorable" post-military discharge was more than likely found guilty in a court martial for committing a reprehensible or heinous act during their time in the military, such as sexual assault, desertion (particularly during war time), murder or attempted murder.  Most veterans with a Dishonorable discharge are considered 'lost,' regardless of any past honorable service, and this type of discharge is regarded as 'shameful.'  A person with a Dishonorable discharge is not entitled to any benefits, cannot own any weapons (as established by federal law), is unfavorably listed with law enforcement (similar to a felon) and is likely to have significant problems securing employment in civilian society.

 

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1 minute ago, NightSG said:

http://blog.gettinghired.com/Home/tabid/159/entryid/131/whats-in-a-military-discharge-and-how-can-it-impact-my-employment.aspx

Bad Conduct discharge

A "Bad Conduct" discharge is given to enlisted military personnel only. It is usually precluded by a military court-martial and extended as a 'punitive measure' for actions that meet very poor and/or bad conduct during one's enlistment.  It is often associated with time in a military prison for a serious military code violation and/or crime.  This type of discharge forfeits all post-military veterans benefits.

Most employers would not look favorably at a job candidate with this status level discharge. It may not keep an employer from extending an employment opportunity, but it may create some serious hesitation on the part of a recruiter.

Dishonorable discharge

A person with a "Dishonorable" post-military discharge was more than likely found guilty in a court martial for committing a reprehensible or heinous act during their time in the military, such as sexual assault, desertion (particularly during war time), murder or attempted murder.  Most veterans with a Dishonorable discharge are considered 'lost,' regardless of any past honorable service, and this type of discharge is regarded as 'shameful.'  A person with a Dishonorable discharge is not entitled to any benefits, cannot own any weapons (as established by federal law), is unfavorably listed with law enforcement (similar to a felon) and is likely to have significant problems securing employment in civilian society.

 

I knew a military guy who called a BCD the "Big chicken dinner" and a dishonorable discharge the "duck dinner" 

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1 minute ago, NightSG said:

http://blog.gettinghired.com/Home/tabid/159/entryid/131/whats-in-a-military-discharge-and-how-can-it-impact-my-employment.aspx

Bad Conduct discharge

A "Bad Conduct" discharge is given to enlisted military personnel only. It is usually precluded by a military court-martial and extended as a 'punitive measure' for actions that meet very poor and/or bad conduct during one's enlistment.  It is often associated with time in a military prison for a serious military code violation and/or crime.  This type of discharge forfeits all post-military veterans benefits.

Most employers would not look favorably at a job candidate with this status level discharge. It may not keep an employer from extending an employment opportunity, but it may create some serious hesitation on the part of a recruiter.

Dishonorable discharge

A person with a "Dishonorable" post-military discharge was more than likely found guilty in a court martial for committing a reprehensible or heinous act during their time in the military, such as sexual assault, desertion (particularly during war time), murder or attempted murder.  Most veterans with a Dishonorable discharge are considered 'lost,' regardless of any past honorable service, and this type of discharge is regarded as 'shameful.'  A person with a Dishonorable discharge is not entitled to any benefits, cannot own any weapons (as established by federal law), is unfavorably listed with law enforcement (similar to a felon) and is likely to have significant problems securing employment in civilian society.

 

Haha. I was actually just joking. Somewhat trying to make the point that A) I hate acronyms and B) I hate "mommy blog" acronyms worst of all.

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6 hours ago, NightSG said:

http://blog.gettinghired.com/Home/tabid/159/entryid/131/whats-in-a-military-discharge-and-how-can-it-impact-my-employment.aspx

Bad Conduct discharge

A "Bad Conduct" discharge is given to enlisted military personnel only. It is usually precluded by a military court-martial and extended as a 'punitive measure' for actions that meet very poor and/or bad conduct during one's enlistment.  It is often associated with time in a military prison for a serious military code violation and/or crime.  This type of discharge forfeits all post-military veterans benefits.

Most employers would not look favorably at a job candidate with this status level discharge. It may not keep an employer from extending an employment opportunity, but it may create some serious hesitation on the part of a recruiter.

Dishonorable discharge

A person with a "Dishonorable" post-military discharge was more than likely found guilty in a court martial for committing a reprehensible or heinous act during their time in the military, such as sexual assault, desertion (particularly during war time), murder or attempted murder.  Most veterans with a Dishonorable discharge are considered 'lost,' regardless of any past honorable service, and this type of discharge is regarded as 'shameful.'  A person with a Dishonorable discharge is not entitled to any benefits, cannot own any weapons (as established by federal law), is unfavorably listed with law enforcement (similar to a felon) and is likely to have significant problems securing employment in civilian society.

 

For us civilians, is there a reason why a DD makes it so that they cannot own a fire arm?  What happens if it was something less than a felony (for example, what if they struck a superior officer or something to that effect), or something similar to that. 

I can understand it in relation to a criminal record, but I've heard of several instances of a DD that would not warrant such a prevention of possessing firearms in civilian life.

That said, if such a thing should have prevented the shooter from possessing a firearm, he shouldn't have gotten it.  A terrible incident.

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19 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

For us civilians, is there a reason why a DD makes it so that they cannot own a fire arm?  What happens if it was something less than a felony (for example, what if they struck a superior officer or something to that effect), or something similar to that. 

In general, it's not supposed to be that easy to get a DD if you're willing to appeal it.  In fact, what I've been seeing supposedly from USAF, the shooter was supposed to get a DD after his prison time, but appealed it and got it reduced to a BCD.  (Also, apparently the charges included some attempted weapons smuggling and going AWOL from ordered mental treatment.)

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23 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

For us civilians, is there a reason why a DD makes it so that they cannot own a fire arm?  What happens if it was something less than a felony (for example, what if they struck a superior officer or something to that effect), or something similar to that. 

I can understand it in relation to a criminal record, but I've heard of several instances of a DD that would not warrant such a prevention of possessing firearms in civilian life.

That said, if such a thing should have prevented the shooter from possessing a firearm, he shouldn't have gotten it.  A terrible incident.

The first and most important role of a military service member is a soldier. Whether your specific job is truck driver, administrative clerk, cook, or mechanic*, you're a soldier first. That means that the military trusts you to carry and use a firearm. A DD is, among other things, a decision that you no are not fit for your role as a soldier. And if the military doesn't trust you with a firearm, then why should the private sector? Like @NightSG said, there are ways to appeal the process, so the less egregious offenders don't have that DD on their record. 

 

* I used those examples specifically because I have served alongside all of those specialists "outside the wire" during my time overseas. My first tour, we had a cook and a mechanic working as .50 gunners in our gun truck squad (which was made up primarily of truck drivers like myself). My second tour, one of our admins volunteered for QRF (quick reaction force) and was killed by a roadside bomb. Technically speaking, there is no job in the military that is completely immune to duty in hostile combat areas.

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@Godless-Does everyone in the military go to basic training? Would a cook/mechanic have to go through the same basic training as an infantry solider would? What about a Methodist minister or Catholic priest who wants to help the Methodists/Catholics in the military? Asking out of my own ignorance, nothing more.

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Godless-Does everyone in the military go to basic training? Would a cook/mechanic have to go through the same basic training as an infantry solider would? What about a Methodist minister or Catholic priest who wants to help the Methodists/Catholics in the military? Asking out of my own ignorance, nothing more.

Yes, everyone goes through the same initial combat training before learning their individual skills. Additionally, periodic weapons qualification is required after training is complete. In the Army, we qualified twice a year. And as Reservists, we went through a couple months of tactical training prior to each deployment. I'm not sure exactly how such training works on the Active Duty side, but I imagine they probably have similar combat-oriented training required of them from time to time.

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1 minute ago, Godless said:

Yes, everyone goes through the same initial combat training before learning their individual skills. Additionally, periodic weapons qualification is required after training is complete. In the Army, we qualified twice a year. And as Reservists, we went through a couple months of tactical training prior to each deployment. I'm not sure exactly how such training works on the Active Duty side, but I imagine they probably have similar combat-oriented training required of them from time to time.

Thanks. I know very, very little about the military. 

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Gator, on the subject of knowing very little about things, I'm afraid you're quite the novice when compared to USA Today.  Real live undoctored tweet I just went and grabbed myself from the real USA Today twitter feed:

image.png.2e747c08773d7a4a5cf5df954ffad7fd.png

 

USA Today later clarified that no, the shooter really didn't have a chainsaw bayonet.  What a relief!

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32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Gator, on the subject of knowing very little about things, I'm afraid you're quite the novice when compared to USA Today.  Real live undoctored tweet I just went and grabbed myself from the real USA Today twitter feed:

[pic]

USA Today later clarified that no, the shooter really didn't have a chainsaw bayonet.  What a relief!

Wow.  Just wow.  I know we're all more ignorant than we are knowledgeable, but wow.

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This was so sad. I was in Texas with two of my daughters, when this took place. Thankfully, the media reported on the faith and hope and grit of the community, rather than the grandstanding of our political leaders (such as happened immediately after the Las Vegas shooting). 

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13 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Gator, on the subject of knowing very little about things, I'm afraid you're quite the novice when compared to USA Today.  Real live undoctored tweet I just went and grabbed myself from the real USA Today twitter feed:

image.png.2e747c08773d7a4a5cf5df954ffad7fd.png

 

USA Today later clarified that no, the shooter really didn't have a chainsaw bayonet.  What a relief!

The internet is really going to town on that one! My personal favorite:

 

FB_IMG_1510238577716.jpg

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18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Gator, on the subject of knowing very little about things, I'm afraid you're quite the novice when compared to USA Today.  Real live undoctored tweet I just went and grabbed myself from the real USA Today twitter feed:

image.png.2e747c08773d7a4a5cf5df954ffad7fd.png

 

USA Today later clarified that no, the shooter really didn't have a chainsaw bayonet.  What a relief!

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/chainsaw-bayonets-are-real-guys/article/2640109

They’re real, and they’re spectacular.

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27 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

They’re real, and they’re spectacular.

And was one used in this incident?  (I think that's the point.)

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